IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-14
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01:13:00 <Phazorx> hmm... were can you construct water towers?
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05:29:00 <Touqen> ubuntu and dist-upgrades don't seem to work too well
05:29:48 <geoffk> scarey stuff i killed a few installs upgrading ubuntu
05:30:00 <Touqen> it just killed my router
05:30:06 <geoffk> something i never do anymore is upgrade
05:30:06 <Touqen> It's fine so long as I don't reboot it.
05:30:21 <Touqen> So, I'm just gonna let it run till this weekend and reinstall.
05:30:45 <geoffk> fresh installs are always best on any OS
05:31:16 <geoffk> i dont trust scripts not to crap all over my configs
05:31:29 <Touqen> I would have just left it alone but it appears the ubuntu breezy aren't there anymore.
05:32:01 <geoffk> haven't notices, i got a few dapper servers runing
05:34:22 <geoffk> personaly i use my own repositories for everything i use i pull in the dvd iso's and mount them on http
05:37:32 <Touqen> I just got an email dated 3/27/1993!
05:37:49 <geoffk> i do a lot of bootstrpping with ubuntu and debian its very handy
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07:05:57 <mikk36> Touqen, don't even try to tell me that you had that email address in march '93 :P
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07:25:00 <stillunknown> geoffk: Some os'es are not necessarily worse after updates.
07:25:39 <geoffk> no but i dont take any chances ubuntu i find breaks a lot of things
07:28:13 <stillunknown> geoffk: My father upgraded a while ago, went reasonably well/
07:28:29 <stillunknown> Personally i'm not a ubuntu fan.
07:29:14 <geoffk> yeah i can go fine depends what you have on the system i guess, i neither like or hate it, i tihnk its slow on a desktop though and wouldn't use it for that
07:32:55 <stillunknown> geoffk: I find a rolling release system preferable.
07:33:32 <geoffk> rolling release? im not familiar with that
07:33:52 <hylje> ubuntu releases 6mo apart
07:34:17 <stillunknown> A rolling release system means stuff gets updated as it becomes available.
07:34:43 <stillunknown> Instead of a huge snapshot every 6 or 12 months.
07:34:44 <geoffk> yeah its good for that its the best thing about it
07:34:57 <geoffk> i use it on some servers i got the LTS 6.06
07:35:11 <hylje> but snapshot is easier to support
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07:35:22 <hylje> and doesnt involve bleeding edge
07:35:52 <stillunknown> I find that certain things are left out during the snapshot update.
07:36:07 <stillunknown> Like ubuntu still uses a 1.2.something libcddb
07:36:23 <stillunknown> While 1.3 has been around for months before the release.
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07:37:26 <geoffk> only reason i ever got interested in ubuntu was when breezy was shipped with OOo2 but it was so slow on my systems it was unusable
07:37:56 <stillunknown> hylje: the 1.2.x version has an annoying bug ;-)
07:38:34 <geoffk> before that i hadn't fentured further than slackware bu tnow i employ debian for most my server thing since etch is uptodate with things i need to run
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08:09:34 <Phazorx> is it possibel to apply your caching idea on top of peter's patch ?
08:12:15 <peter1138> whether it improves anything is another matter...
08:12:39 <Phazorx> peter1138: i got another test case game here
08:12:54 <Phazorx> 850 trains on 2048x128
08:12:59 <peter1138> more test cases? heh
08:13:08 <Phazorx> well this one is inetresting
08:13:23 <Phazorx> same game whioch was crashiung continued
08:13:40 <Phazorx> curerntly with stillunknown's oatch is it close to 100 (but not over it yet)
08:13:49 <Phazorx> with yours 75-80% CPU load
08:13:58 <Phazorx> w/o patches it's a slideshow
08:14:24 <Phazorx> i'd recommend using it for tuning
08:14:26 <peter1138> ok. what do you want me to do about it? :p
08:14:48 <Phazorx> re - play with hash values and profiling?
08:15:04 <peter1138> don't fancy doing it again ;(
08:15:30 <peter1138> have you updated recently?
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08:15:49 <peter1138> or are you still using the patch i sent you?
08:16:11 <Phazorx> i can compare results with sometihng if you want me to
08:16:18 <peter1138> compare with current trunk
08:18:44 <Phazorx> it's a bit better, ~65-70% now
08:20:13 <Phazorx> i'd say it is still slighty betetr, may be not 5% drop but clsoe to it
08:20:57 <Phazorx> i'm surprized that i do not see same difference like in EvsL case cuz structure is close
08:23:56 <Phazorx> one of my weird test cases
08:24:37 <Phazorx> this one shown 1100% improvement with peter's patch
08:25:25 <Phazorx> i'll wiki it after i'm done
08:25:33 <Phazorx> however owen already put something there
08:25:46 <Phazorx> basicaly idea is free lanes for merging trains on ML
08:25:57 <Phazorx> so ML trains shift lanes right wenvever they can
08:26:05 <Phazorx> keeping left lanes open
08:26:55 <Phazorx> by doing so you win on ease of design and expandability
08:27:02 <peter1138> Phazorx: in trunk, the hash size is larger and the bucket size smaller
08:27:10 <peter1138> which my profiling showed as better
08:27:23 <peter1138> increasing hash size always increased performance
08:27:33 <peter1138> so did decreasing bucket size
08:27:49 <Phazorx> peter1138: is it possible to have it tunable
08:28:11 <peter1138> the compiler wouldn't be able to optimise it as much
08:28:44 <Phazorx> well it works much better than before, so thanks a lot
08:49:08 <peter1138> what cpu have you got?
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09:03:45 <DJGummikuh> What does it need in "Desert" Theme to grow towns?
09:04:09 <DJGummikuh> I'm already doing in-town transportation and deliver food AND water to it, nevertheles it doesn't grow by a single inhabitant
09:17:25 <Biff> DJGummikuh: passengers, mail, goods?
09:19:54 <SteamWilly> does building over farm-tiles affect the productivity?
09:20:18 <peter1138> it's a quantum farm
09:21:41 <SteamWilly> you mean 'magic' farm? ;)
09:54:53 <DJGummikuh> Biff: right now I'm transporting Water and Food and Passengers
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09:57:24 <SteamWilly> gummikuh: the wiki says: "Towns located in the desert require food and water to grow" nothing more about this topic
10:00:25 <DJGummikuh> SteamWilly: yes this is what I heard... actually the town already grew by 5 villagers... over 4 years of constant food and water delivery
10:01:05 <Maedhros> 5 people over four years sound more like luck than anything else ;)
10:01:15 <Maedhros> how close are your stations to the town?
10:04:04 <DJGummikuh> well... my station is about the size of the town and right next to it...
10:04:17 <DJGummikuh> Maedhros: if oyu have 0.5.2 you can join my server and have a look
10:04:22 <DJGummikuh> 134.130.54.198 is the IP
10:05:15 <DJGummikuh> yay now it is even lower than it was before I started delivering
10:05:24 <DJGummikuh> is my food poisoned or what?
10:10:59 <DJGummikuh> AAAH it finally started growing... seems the problem indeed was not enough food
10:11:12 <DJGummikuh> updated from one food train to 4 :D already doubled the size
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10:31:49 <Phazorx> peter1138: t-bred 2100+ @ 2G
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10:56:25 <eekee> What sort of vehicle ID should I use when adding a new tram>
10:57:40 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away
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10:57:56 <TrueBrain> Nickman^Away: please disable that script, as it is not wanted here
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10:58:21 <TrueBrain> Nickman^Away: please disable that script, as it is not wanted here (last time we ask nicely ;))
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10:59:29 <Nickman> sorry for the away script :s
10:59:36 <Nickman> was testing and it send it to all channels
10:59:37 <TrueBrain> np, just make sure it is now disabled ;)
10:59:47 <TrueBrain> it is annoying in any channel :p
11:00:37 <TrueBrain> eekee: I was kind of joking :p
11:02:35 <eekee> The ttdpatch wiki says to use an existing veh. number, but the serbian tram set doesn't seem to
11:27:34 <Nickman> TrueBrain: isn't the 32bpp implemantation somewhat a hack???
11:28:22 <TrueBrain> you want a kick again? :p
11:28:36 <TrueBrain> I worked my ass of the last few days to get a clean 32bpp implementation
11:28:43 <TrueBrain> and you call it a hack? :)
11:30:19 <Nickman> I don't know the real implementation, but since it overrides the 8bpp sprites?
11:30:38 <Nickman> I didn't say it sucked... I think it's some great work!
11:31:13 <Nickman> but find it wierd to see a bunch of png files instead of a grf-like file :)
11:32:55 * eekee is finding grf wierd, or at least .nfo O.o
11:33:17 <Nickman> but, on the other hand, this implementation is much simpler :)
11:33:33 <Nickman> maybe you could add support to zip files or so TrueBrain ??
11:33:39 <eekee> Oh & yay for simplicity! Always.
11:34:23 <TrueBrain> Nickman: tar support :p
11:34:40 <Rubidium> Nickman: now it works "simply", all the other things like a container for 32bpp graphics and other (speed) improvements are still under development
11:35:32 <Nickman> but the tar support would be nice, since you would be able to place "packs" of png's in the folder insted of seperate PNG's wich looks nicer ;)
11:35:41 <Nickman> but some great stuff there!!
11:37:24 <Nickman> but what was the 32bpp branch doing if you just made it out of nothing? :D
11:38:50 <peter1138> so got any good shots of 32bpp yet?
11:39:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
11:41:42 <Nickman> so, to use 32bpp images, you just have to place them in those specific locations and the game will load them automaticly?
11:44:36 <Nickman> so this is clientside only and doesn't affect multiplayer games?
11:46:48 <Nickman> good compatibility with 8bpp only then ;)
11:47:40 <peter1138> "in the overall aim of the 32bpp project. Such as seasons, more sprites for construction. 4 rotations for viewing. Multiple angles for vehicles, smoother rail/junctions, longer/larger vehicles"
11:47:53 <peter1138> that is totally *not* the aim of 32bpp...
11:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> somthing that i would place in direct relation to 32bpp would be better zoom and transparency
11:52:04 <peter1138> RGBA PNGs are fully supported
11:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> a little bit too transparent, maybe :)
11:53:24 <peter1138> i've changed it, yes
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11:58:38 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I agree: idiot! Who wrote that?
11:59:01 <TrueBrain> Nickman: the aim of 32bpp is that it only overrides 8bpp, and not be a replacement for
11:59:28 <TrueBrain> that way 8bpp and 32bpp clients can play together just perfectly
11:59:57 <peter1138> TrueBrain: ben_robbins_
12:00:01 <TrueBrain> and tar support is on his way, it just isn't as important as some other things :)
12:00:15 <peter1138> it's in the thread you locked
12:00:25 <TrueBrain> never read the replies
12:01:11 <Nickman> TrueBrain I understand ;). it is a great feature none the less ;)
12:01:28 <TrueBrain> Nickman: it sure is, and more of all, it is pretty clean (code-wise :))
12:01:35 <TrueBrain> a lot of additions and shit is possible
12:02:07 <Nickman> I'll try to take a look at the code when my exams are done
12:02:49 <TrueBrain> and I just need some good 32bpp replacement pngs
12:03:29 <peter1138> where does glGetProcAddress come from...
12:04:06 <Nickman> we should have 32bpp replacements for all the standard grfs
12:05:32 <Nickman> that would be nice ;)
12:05:54 <Nickman> but the 32bpp graphics development seems to be quite :s. Don't see much progress?
12:06:28 <TrueBrain> mostly because everyone is just doing something
12:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, nobody is organising anything
12:07:01 <TrueBrain> so for that, I am trying to make a website
12:07:21 <TrueBrain> I only am not an artist
12:07:29 <TrueBrain> so I am making up rules I have no idea if they work :p
12:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> a "project manager" does not necessary need to have any clue about the project :)
12:08:00 <TrueBrain> true, but it might be useful ;)
12:08:56 <Nickman> I can make webistes... :)
12:09:07 <Nickman> only can't draw shit :p
12:09:07 <TrueBrain> I can do that too :p
12:09:21 <TrueBrain> nah, the website is already kind of done (not even by me)
12:09:37 <Nickman> what do you need for the site then?
12:10:41 <TrueBrain> I am going to list all current grfs (in png, 8bpp), and allow uploading of 32bpp images by users
12:10:43 <TrueBrain> which then are listed
12:10:49 <TrueBrain> maybe even a simple scoring system
12:10:59 <TrueBrain> and some guidelines how they should be made
12:11:06 <TrueBrain> (company color should be dark-blue, stuff like that)
12:11:35 <Nickman> sounds great, finally a central place for the graphics :)
12:11:43 <TrueBrain> and of course that when they upload an image, they give the copyright up to the OpenTTD Developers Team
12:11:51 <TrueBrain> and ones we can use freely
12:12:48 <Nickman> indeed, OpenTTD Team needs to be able to use the grafics without having to ask for permission all the time
12:13:08 <TrueBrain> exactly :) Else it is kind of useless
12:13:17 <TrueBrain> even more as hopefully multiple users will post graphics :)
12:13:28 <eekee> Feels wierd to be learing to make grfs at this time :)
12:14:20 <Nickman> if you need help with the site TrueBrain, I'm willing to help ;). I like webdevelopment :)
12:14:44 <TrueBrain> first I need to get those 8bpp PNGs with all data set as I would like :)
12:15:00 <TrueBrain> (we make use of PNG tEXt chunks to store x_offs and y_offs, of course they need to be in the 8bpp PNGs too)
12:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> what about a rule that the images should have some resemlence to the original ones?
12:15:05 <TrueBrain> although OpenTTD can't load them
12:15:24 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: that will be one of the biggest :) One in fact will be bigger: you can not take the original and modify it
12:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, of course
12:15:42 <TrueBrain> but I am really looking for a replacement that looks VERY good, but still has the TT feeling
12:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> some of the previously posted (huge) 32bpp images might look nice and all, but they just do not fit into the old graphics
12:17:35 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: I totally agree
12:17:41 <TrueBrain> also, the replacement images need to be of the same dimension
12:17:46 <TrueBrain> not like we have now, twice or 4 times as big
12:18:04 <TrueBrain> tile-sprites need to be pixel-perfect, else you get weird side-effects
12:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i could live with an additional x2 zoom version
12:18:27 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: the scaling routine can't :)
12:18:30 <eekee> I thought you were going for x2 x2 tiles, heh
12:18:36 <TrueBrain> most likely we will add that you can give pngs per zoom level
12:18:49 <TrueBrain> but runtime scaling is very poor
12:19:16 <eekee> I could live with a pixelly look at x2
12:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i meant that you have a picture for each zoom level, in particular the current max zoom in, and a future x2 zoom
12:20:23 <TrueBrain> but for now I am already happy if I can get my hands on graphics for the current normal zoom level :)
12:21:06 <Nickman> hehe, would be cool ;)
12:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you could start to collect normal and x2 images now, and worry about the implementation of x2 later :)
12:21:31 <Nickman> some of the graphics stated on the wiki look really great (espacially the terrain ones) and have the same look and feel as the original ones
12:21:50 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: then we have to collect all zoom levels immediatly
12:22:09 <TrueBrain> Nickman: yeah, and sadly enough they are unusable as they are all zoom-in 2x
12:22:17 <TrueBrain> which makes them off by 1 pixel in normal zoom
12:22:28 <TrueBrain> causing graphical issues all over the place :(
12:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i really think with current resolutions, a x2 zoom is necessary
12:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> also for gui elements
12:23:47 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: a zoom-in 2x will be created, if I can work some bugs, but don't blame the current resolutions :p
12:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> (but separately :))
12:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, tto was designed for 640x480, meanwhile a lot of people have 1600x1200 or more resolution
12:24:54 <Nickman> can't you just conatact the people who made those new grf to make some new renders TrueBrain?
12:24:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: so? :) I can still read most things just fine ;)
12:25:11 <TrueBrain> Nickman: possible, we will see if we can get them motivated
12:25:17 <TrueBrain> sadly enough Alltaken has a real job nowedays :p
12:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, but i can't if i sit 3m from the monitor :)
12:25:31 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: so what you are talking about is a luxary problem
12:25:40 <TrueBrain> you could also just switch your resolution back to a normal size
12:25:44 <TrueBrain> solves your problem ;)
12:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> ttd is a luxury problem in itself :)
12:26:28 <Nickman> yeah Alltaken made some nice graphics
12:31:49 <tokai|ni> the problem with those new graphics was the silly blender requirement:)
12:31:56 <tokai|ni> else i would have done a bunch
12:32:11 <TrueBrain> what blender requirement?
12:32:15 * eekee has a wierd action 4 issue. It's renaming the wrong vehicle
12:32:35 <tokai|ni> TrueBrain: the wiki says (or said) so.
12:32:58 <TrueBrain> hmm, can you find it for me?
12:34:02 <tokai|ni> TrueBrain: the problem is when u texture etc. your object in application X and then export it to blender an rerender it there it might come out completly different
12:34:42 <tokai|ni> a more general definition of light look and color schemes would have been better imho.. more freedom for the individual gfx artist
12:35:00 <TrueBrain> that is what I would suggest
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12:37:45 <eekee> Yeah me either, although I should have. The TTD rendition of the livingstone tower looks like any number of blocks of flats in Britain
12:38:42 <tokai|ni> TrueBrain: i even have an idea to come to many free graphics in 2 weeks. dunno if its doable.. needs some managing. on threedy.com they do weekly/biweekly modelling competitions. One could organize a challenge to make graphics for OpenTTD. I could ask the guys if there is interest (but it needs lightsetup etc. defined (application unrelated)).
12:39:36 <TrueBrain> tokai|ni: I don't have any problems with that, we have a few requirements for the graphics, and the rest is free for all
12:39:38 <eekee> I think there's some buildings like the Buchanan Street houses down south here in Worthing, & the library here doesn't look any less strange than that Glasgow bank.
12:42:28 <tokai|ni> TrueBrain: i'll ask them then.
12:42:45 <TrueBrain> tokai|ni: please do :) We do need to finialize a tool to make the pngs with the x_offs and y_offs thingies
12:44:52 <eekee> Hm, I'm stuck on my refittable tram project. Action 4 is renaming the wrong vehicle, and the action 0 I copied isn't making sense when I refer to the wiki
12:47:17 <Maedhros> eekee: can you put it up somewhere so we can have a look?
12:47:32 <eekee> Maedhros: sure, one sec
12:48:50 <eekee> apologies for the syntax highlighting
12:52:04 <eekee> the action 0 is copied from srvttw.nfo with just the vehicle id changed to 50
12:54:36 <Maedhros> ok, as for the action 4, your action 3 is defining vehicle id 0x50, but you're renaming vehicle 0x01
12:54:37 <eekee> the action 4 rename is being applied to the original vehicle in srvttw.grf, which has vehicle ID 40. Mine is aparently a Powernaught Fizzy Drink Truck - the original name for road veh. 50
12:54:53 <peter1138> Maedhros: not quite
12:55:09 <peter1138> its renaming vehicle 64 ... @
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12:55:29 <eekee> oh,those 40 & 50 are in hex, sorry
12:56:03 <peter1138> so the 01 "@ should be 01 50 "
12:56:58 <Maedhros> also, your action 0 is providing properties for 17 vehicles...
12:57:01 <glx> grfcodec does funny things with strings :)
12:57:09 <eekee> I wondered why the veh number wasn't there, & what that @ waws lol
12:58:23 <eekee> Maedhros: I thought it wsa providing 17 properties for 1 veh?
12:59:03 <Maedhros> i'm not doing well at this, am i ;)
12:59:23 <eekee> It's ok, I had to double check that :D
13:03:03 <Maedhros> anyway, apart from missing 4 properties, what doesn't make sense about the action 0?
13:03:06 <eekee> The action 0 line I read as action 1, feature 1, setting hex11 properties on 1 vehicle, number hex50, but the first property appears to be 00 which isn't in the wiki
13:03:21 <hylje> enjoy your readable code
13:10:24 <peter1138> heh, using documented nfo is somewhat more helpful
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13:17:02 <TheJosh> so we now have 32bpp? cool
13:17:17 * TheJosh thinks about those transperent guis...
13:18:41 <Rubidium> TheJosh: I think you can stay in the thinking stage for quite some while; first cpp_gui must be finished I think
13:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> + in filenames is not that great of an idea :p
13:20:19 <TheJosh> Rubidium: i assumed it would not be ready for opacity just yet, it was only added like today or so
13:20:30 <Rubidium> only character that cannot be in a filename is the "/" ;)
13:20:44 <DJGummikuh> Eddi|zuHause2: that doesn't answer my question
13:20:50 <TheJosh> on linux machines, although windows is more dumb
13:20:58 <DJGummikuh> is cpp meant to be a filesys compatible version of c++?
13:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> if something is allowed, it does not mean it is a good idea :p
13:21:20 <DJGummikuh> or is that some screwed shortcut for centered piece positioning or such?
13:21:21 <Maedhros> one of them. i've also seen people using .cc as a file extension
13:21:24 <Rubidium> yeah, Windows is broken. You can not even call you file "con" (without quotes ofcourse)
13:21:51 <eekee> w00t w00t, one refittable tram
13:22:11 <DJGummikuh> Rubidium: despite I never tried it, why is it forbidden?
13:22:51 <DJGummikuh> lol that looks like a beautiful hall of mirrors
13:23:17 <TheJosh> Rubidium: with the 32bpp, can I assume the NewGRF format will be extended for 32bpp support so that we wont need to have hundreds of pngs lying around?
13:23:21 <Rubidium> Microsoft's most basic text "editor"
13:23:37 <TrueBrain> okay, I really need to make a blog post
13:23:48 <Maedhros> TheJosh: it's not really safe to assume anything at the moment - it's all in the early stages ;)
13:24:04 <TheJosh> i see you got that bug sorted Maedhros
13:24:12 <TrueBrain> TheJosh: for now NewGRF won't be extended with 32bpp suport, but an addition tar-format will be introduced that combines the PNGs to a single file
13:24:55 <TheJosh> will that end up replacing NewGRF by also holding the NewGRF data in a plain-text format?
13:25:24 <TrueBrain> NewGRF won't be replaced
13:25:30 <TrueBrain> 32bpp images are an extension to 8bpp
13:25:32 <TrueBrain> nothing more, nothing less
13:25:51 <TrueBrain> 8bpp is and will be the core bpp
13:25:58 <TrueBrain> optional you can add 32bpp graphics to it
13:27:55 <DJGummikuh> you know what I wonder about on openttd.org?
13:28:13 <DJGummikuh> How the heck can you make a screenshot of a CAKE? isn't this supposed to be an old-school photo?
13:28:55 <glx> there's a screenshot on the cake :)
13:28:57 <Rubidium> there's a screenshot on the cake
13:30:53 <DJGummikuh> We've made a screenshot of it, check the screenshots section. <-- I think this does not try to tell me that there's a screenshot on the cake ;D
13:35:27 <Sug> wow, the 32bpp blitter is slow
13:37:48 <TrueBrain> 3 to 4 times as slow, yes
13:38:03 <TrueBrain> a more optimized 32bpp blitter is being produced, but takes time
13:38:25 <Rubidium> first make it work, then make it pretty ;)
13:39:46 <Sug> fair enough, didnt expect it to be perfect first time
13:40:15 <TrueBrain> it is perfect, just slow :p
13:40:45 <Sug> are you planning on increasing the size of things, as I understand it now everything has to be the same dimensions as they always have been
13:41:12 <TrueBrain> and what is your question? :p
13:41:59 <Sug> if your planning on increasing the tile size i guess
13:42:20 <TrueBrain> why would we? It is perfet as it is :)
13:42:40 <TheJosh> the doxygen docs list every function in openttd, right?
13:42:54 <Rubidium> tiles will always be 16 by 16 ;)
13:43:13 <TrueBrain> TheJosh: updated every night, yes
13:43:27 <TrueBrain> or 64x31 in pixel-format :)
13:43:28 <TheJosh> so how come the function GetVehicle doesnt show up anywhere? i cant find it anywhere
13:43:47 <Sug> so they are getting bigger
13:44:00 <TrueBrain> they are already that size
13:44:16 <Sug> then 32bpp seems a bit pointless
13:44:43 <TrueBrain> TheJosh: doxygen is known to hide things ;) Also, non-documented things can be hard to find
13:44:56 <TheJosh> i cant even find it with grep
13:45:27 <Sug> well maybe, but if a train is only 32 pixels long. having more colours doesnt seem necceasry
13:45:36 <TrueBrain> and why would that be?
13:46:04 <XeryusTC> Sug: that is a silly statement :P
13:46:09 <Sug> well yea you get more colours available
13:46:11 <glx> Sug: but it can have different color than the 256 in 8bpp
13:46:30 <TrueBrain> TheJosh: btw, GetVehicle is a very special function ;) Try to find it in the source ;)
13:47:16 <peter1138> people seem to be under the impression that 32bpp was the holy grail
13:47:24 <peter1138> suddenly loads of different things would become possible
13:47:31 <glx> and you can have different transparency levels too
13:47:41 <TrueBrain> or that the game all of a sudden looks like The Sims :p
13:47:43 <peter1138> in reality, all that 32bpp allows is, well, 32bpp
13:47:43 <Sug> but it seemed from the previous work done on it that you were actually increasing the detail you could get
13:48:02 <TheJosh> TrueBrain: how is GetVehicle special?
13:48:03 <peter1138> tile size does not need to increase to increase detail :)
13:48:04 <TrueBrain> Sug: only the artists wanted to make that impression
13:48:30 <TrueBrain> TheJosh: as I truely don't know where it is defined :p
13:48:32 <peter1138> TheJosh: it's a function made from a macro
13:48:33 <Sug> when i say tile size i meant the pixels in a tile
13:49:03 <glx> maybe with some zoom-in levels ;) (but not now)
13:50:16 <TheJosh> so GetVehicle basically doesnt exist? cool
13:50:36 <TheJosh> i have fixed my problem without seeing GetVehicle anyway
13:50:49 <Maedhros> it does, but you won't find it with grep unless you run gcc -E over the source ;)
13:51:12 <Rubidium> TheJosh/TrueBrain: GetVehicle is a pool method, i.e. created via a macro
13:51:55 <Rubidium> it's defined at line 64 of oldpool.h
13:52:47 <TheJosh> "static inline type* Get##name(uint index)" <== i see why grep missed it
13:53:09 <TheJosh> why is it defined in such an odd way?
13:53:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
13:54:13 <Sug> TrueBrain: Very enlightening, thanks
13:54:50 <Bjarni> TrueLight was enlightening :/
13:55:46 <TrueBrain> Sug: more over, maybe I should have added that too: increases the amount of pixels per tile won't really resolve anything. I don't see any reason why someone just uses 2 or 4 tiles or what ever if he wants to make something big
13:55:53 <TrueBrain> what I saw in 32bpp scared me: 4 houses on one tile
13:56:00 <TrueBrain> that isn't TT-alike, that is a whole new game
13:56:24 <TrueBrain> but okay, those 'changes' people tried to make really are unrelated to 32bpp, but are on a whole other level :)
13:56:26 <Sug> yea, I didn't think of that
13:56:42 <peter1138> and longer trains don't need larger tiles either
13:56:58 <peter1138> probably it could be done with a minor patch quite easily
13:57:05 <Sug> so in that case, are you planning to increase sprites sizes so you can have bigger things
13:57:08 <peter1138> it would just look odd going round bends ;)
13:57:20 <Maedhros> long vehicles redux!
13:57:40 <peter1138> sprites aren't really limited in size
13:58:02 <peter1138> well, possibly to 256x256 or somesuch
13:59:54 <Sug> but then again, taking a 45degree turn instantly doesnt exactly look realistic
14:01:32 <peter1138> but these are things that are no dependent on 8bpp or 32bpp
14:03:48 * eekee has a squeaky tram. Ponders
14:12:59 <eekee> yay workie! I forgot to copy some bytes
14:16:21 <TheJosh> how can i get the owner of a vehicle? i see the owner parameter (type PlayerByte) but how can I relate that to the current player?
14:16:45 <TheJosh> this line: "if (v->owner == _current_player) {" does not seem to be working for me
14:17:18 <Rubidium> that should just work
14:17:25 <Rubidium> but is the current player what you expect it to be?
14:17:28 <Maedhros> where are you trying to use it?
14:17:56 <TheJosh> in LoadUnloadVehicle (econonmy.cpp)
14:19:00 <Maedhros> LoadUnloadVehicle is called as part of the vehicle tick handler, so you can't assume _current_player will be right there
14:19:01 <Rubidium> current player is undefined in there
14:20:25 <Rubidium> Noldo: even without globals this problem would exist
14:20:32 <TheJosh> so how can I get the actual current player? i would like my loading indicators to only show for the current player
14:20:50 <Rubidium> current player isn't what you want
14:21:11 <Rubidium> as current player can also be the town or water when they are having their "ticks"
14:21:32 <Rubidium> I think you want local player
14:21:35 <Maedhros> what exactly are loading indicators? i'd have thought they'd be better off in the gui anyway...
14:21:37 <TheJosh> would a town tick LoadUnloadVehicle?
14:22:08 <TheJosh> loading indicators are little numbers above the train as it loads. this is just the code that updates the variable for the gui
14:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> TheJosh: maybe you are better off using _local_player
14:24:07 <TheJosh> Eddi|zuHause2: thanks, that appears to be working
14:24:31 <TheJosh> play as player cheat will probably not be happy, but i dont care
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14:26:57 <Zr40|work> who's managing the channel bot? :)
14:28:30 <Rubidium> well, ChanServ and NickServ are both OFTC
14:28:40 <TrueBrain> Zr40|work: for what do you want to know?
14:28:45 <Zr40|work> those aren't actually present in this channel, are they?
14:29:03 <Zr40|work> TrueBrain: I'm looking for a suitable bot on another channel
14:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> how much you gonna pay? :p
14:29:54 <TrueBrain> or you want one of ours joining your chanenl?! :)
14:30:43 <Zr40|work> TrueBrain: no, I'll run it myself - private network
14:30:49 <Zr40|work> Eddi|zuHause2: more like 0 :)
14:30:54 <TrueBrain> Zr40|work: either eggdrop or supybot
14:30:59 <TrueBrain> I like supybot, python, more flexible
14:31:04 <TrueBrain> eggdrop is a bit easier to set up, but is tcl
14:31:27 <Zr40|work> too bad the supybot website seems to be having proxy problems
14:31:35 <TheJosh> i have a wikipedia bot if anyone wants it
14:31:48 <TheJosh> its allowed to do 1 edit every 15 secs
14:32:40 <TheJosh> enough c++ for one night
14:32:49 <TheJosh> patch is almost done, so exciting!
14:36:06 <Hendikins> Firefox 1.5. How Quaint.
14:42:38 <eekee> I sometimes think of going back to 1.5 for the smaller memory footprint, but I don't think it would be that much different
14:43:18 <SpComb> I have 2.0 on my desktop, but haven't yet noticed enough of a difference between the two to upgrade this
14:44:23 <eekee> Well I just upgraded as part of upgrading SMGL one time, but restoring session after crash/quit is worth it for me
14:54:14 <eekee> how do you cancel shared orders?
14:54:43 <peter1138> 'delete' the shared order line
14:57:35 <Hendikins> Isn't it sad that I can tell by just looking at the theme? :P
15:11:49 <Hendikins> I do QA, support, docs and third party builds. It is excusable, but still sad.
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15:44:32 <stillunknown> I was wondering if goto statements are bad for performance.
15:45:20 <hylje> they are bad for maintainability
15:45:26 <Maedhros> why would they be? i'd assume they'd be closer to the actual machine code than a lot of C++ stuff
15:45:32 <Nickman> depends on how you use em stillunknown
15:46:10 <Nickman> goto's are not very efficint, because in some languages they rescan the entire document to find where to go, depends on the language...
15:46:58 <stillunknown> Nickman: the way they are used in ottd
15:47:02 <Rubidium> Nickman: that's compile time, so that doesn't matter
15:47:39 <Nickman> Rubidium: could be at C and C++ since they are compile languages. But languages like BASIC don't like them alot :D
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16:07:54 <Thomas[NL]> yay just heard I passed the exams :P
16:10:01 <Nickman> Good for you Thomas[NL] !! great job ;)
16:10:10 <Nickman> I'm still in the middle o f my exams
16:11:02 <Thomas[NL]> thank you, Nickman, good luck with yours
16:11:55 <Noldo> oh studying, I wonder what it will feel like doing that again
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16:23:07 <Giddorah> How's things going? :)
16:27:46 *** nihil84 has joined #openttd
16:33:13 <TrueBrain> Giddorah: pretty good :p
16:33:57 <Giddorah> Excellent :D Got as grey weather where you are as we have here?
16:34:21 <TrueBrain> passing by, but yeah
16:34:43 <Giddorah> Excellent... That means there's no distraction, like sun and stuff, for the developers!
16:35:01 <TrueBrain> like we didn't commit enough the last few days :p
16:35:15 <Giddorah> What exactly is "Enough" for you? :P
16:35:36 <TrueBrain> bugs fixes, 32bpp, ... :p
16:37:19 <Giddorah> Wanna compare your Enough with my Enough? :D
16:38:50 * Giddorah opens up his <3 to all the hard work and countless hours put into the project by everyone involved.
16:38:54 <Giddorah> You know we love you :)
16:50:43 <Sug> consider my previous statement withdrawn
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17:01:07 <Biff> openttd: /home/magne/src/openttd/src/town_cmd.cpp:1788: void DoClearTownHouseHelper(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_HOUSE)' failed.
17:03:43 <Rubidium> and the savagame to reproduce this?
17:06:57 <Biff> big file and slow connection, sorry :)
17:07:37 <Biff> it crashed after a while, i dont know what i did, so i'll try to reproduce it
17:08:24 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:09:07 <Biff> i have a core dump aswell
17:09:31 <Biff> if i can find out where it is
17:09:49 <Biff> i'll see what i can find(1)
17:10:02 <Rubidium> gdb -c <coredump> <binary>
17:10:10 <Digitalfox> I have been trying to understand the differences between monorail and maglev in real life.. But for what i see the maglev uses monorail track and so monorail is in fact maglev right?
17:10:12 <Biff> yup, but i dunno where the core dump is
17:10:23 <Rubidium> and paste that to paste.openttd.org *if* it's useful :)
17:10:53 <Biff> i think the game changes pwd, because it was not in the directory i started in
17:10:57 <Rubidium> monorail means vehicle driving (physically touching) one since rail
17:11:19 <Rubidium> maglev means that the vehicle floats (does not physically touch anything)
17:11:36 <Digitalfox> Magnetic levitation train (maglev) systems by the German Transrapid were built as straddle-type monorails, as they are highly stable and allow rapid deceleration from great speed. When in full-speed operation maglev trains actually hover over the track and are thus not in physical contact with it. It is the fastest monorail, running at up to 311 mph (501 km/h).
17:11:47 <Biff> Rubidium: hmm, the core dump seems to be useless
17:11:58 <Biff> i did not compile with debugging flags i guess
17:12:56 <Biff> without me doing anything
17:13:11 <Biff> so it should be reproducable with 10158
17:13:32 <Biff> i have ukrs and some other grfs tho, i dont know if they can cause it
17:14:09 <peter1138> ukrs won't be touching houses...
17:15:11 <Rubidium> what date approximatelly?
17:15:31 <Biff> not sure, it took beetwhen 5 and 10 minutes from i loaded it
17:16:48 <Digitalfox> But Rubidium if so, why don't any one make a monorail train set?? Do people think monorail is not the future or doesn't it offer any real benefict over normal trains and maglev?
17:17:13 *** wolfy is now known as Wolfensteijn
17:17:57 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: because in TTDP, which almost all newgrfs are based on, monorail or maglev (usually monorail) is sacrifised to have electrified rails
17:18:18 <Digitalfox> In newgrf it seems people don't care or like monorail and in real life people always talk about maglev..
17:18:59 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: I see, but it's a shame because i like monorail :)
17:19:08 <Biff> if you first do the replacement from ordinary rails, you will wait for maglev
17:19:17 <Biff> i think that might be the reason
17:19:20 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest1885
17:19:28 <Digitalfox> Are there a lot od monorail engines in real life?
17:19:56 <Rubidium> not besides passenger travel (same holds for maglev too) I think
17:20:26 <Biff> if there were a easy way to replace rail monorail would be cool
17:20:59 <hylje> replace rail function :>
17:21:01 <TrueBrain> I like the old days, where you had to do it by hand
17:21:13 <Biff> TrueBrain: i hate doing that :)
17:21:20 <Biff> its just boring work, and no fun :P
17:21:42 <Biff> hylje: the problem is when you have several hundred trains
17:21:49 <TrueBrain> but nowedays everyone is lazy and use the auto-convert tool :(
17:21:50 <Rubidium> then just leave those "old" trains running on the old track and build a new state-of-the-art monorail or maglev passenger network
17:21:52 <Biff> it takes hours to replace all the trains
17:22:13 <Biff> Rubidium: well, i usually fill the map with rail until the maglev stuff comes
17:22:21 <Biff> and i want only one network
17:23:24 <peter1138> Digitalfox: monorail might be used more if it actually offered the real-world advantages
17:23:44 <peter1138> like less space usage
17:24:48 <Biff> replacing regular rails would be as crazy as replacing the ip protocol
17:24:52 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
17:25:07 <dihedral> i was spectating a game and got a dsync error
17:26:23 <TrueBrain> what else would you expect?
17:26:34 <TrueBrain> that we use the backdoor installed in all OpenTTD clients and look around what caused it?
17:27:11 <dihedral> ah... but sick to the ottd files will ya
17:27:16 <TrueBrain> Sacro: yeah, you active it with ALT+F4
17:27:20 <dihedral> dont want you snooping around my private stuff :-P
17:27:31 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I don't want to see your p0rn collection
17:27:42 <dihedral> haha - my pc is free of such stuff
17:27:44 <SmatZ> anyone talking about p0rn?
17:27:57 <TrueBrain> dihedral: do you browse the web?
17:28:03 <dihedral> & i only run 100% purchased or free software
17:28:20 <TrueBrain> then you have p0rn on your computer
17:28:32 <TrueBrain> check your image-cache
17:28:38 <dihedral> i have not image-cache
17:28:45 <TrueBrain> your browser does :p
17:29:10 <TrueBrain> oh, so you are that idiot consuming all our bandwidth by redownloading all css and images every page load?
17:29:13 <dihedral> + cookies and history is purged everytime i close it
17:29:37 <dihedral> yep - that would be me!
17:29:38 <TrueBrain> still, the data was on your HD, good chance it still it, might be invisible directly, but it is there
17:30:04 <dihedral> ok - i'll grant you that one :-P
17:30:26 <dihedral> but that data aint images :-D
17:30:39 <TrueBrain> depends on your point of view ;)
17:30:51 <TrueBrain> I even have p0rn in my email
17:31:00 <TrueBrain> nowedays they include an image :(
17:31:13 <TrueBrain> mine is big enough as it is :s
17:31:22 <TrueBrain> I use IMAP too, but mail-client has caching :)
17:31:41 <dihedral> unless you disable the cache or use web clients only
17:31:47 *** Nickman^food is now known as Nickman
17:31:50 <TrueBrain> yup, but still: it is in my email
17:32:23 <dihedral> anything that might be spam or junk is kicked automatically
17:32:38 <dihedral> if it was not spam that aint my prob then :-D
17:32:56 <TrueBrain> spam is temp stored for 3 days
17:33:27 <dihedral> + i dont look at the spam foler
17:33:28 <TrueBrain> my mailserver => spam is temp stored for 3 days
17:33:45 <TrueBrain> emai lfrom hotmail is lately marked as spam
17:33:52 <TrueBrain> somehow they ended up on spamcop DB :p
17:33:59 <Biff> TrueBrain: what if you are on vacation and something gets tagged wrong?
17:34:08 <dihedral> i keep spam for a week for the baisian(?) filter
17:34:28 <dihedral> but that stays on the mail server
17:34:38 <Rubidium> Biff: did you change the newgrfs while playing?
17:34:50 <dihedral> i get an email every night informing me about the headers of taged mails
17:35:10 <Biff> hmm, yes. i added the trams
17:35:10 <TrueBrain> and that isn't marked as spam? :p
17:35:10 <Biff> and 1 year into the game i added the newhouses
17:35:50 <dihedral> its a text mail with sender date and subject
17:36:24 <dihedral> i at least try keeping my computers clean
17:36:43 <dihedral> even if that means that i am the idiot who uses up all your bandwidth
17:36:58 <dihedral> by downloading all css files and images every time i access a page
17:37:21 <Rubidium> Biff: well, something messed with your savegame 128 game years back
17:37:30 <TrueBrain> (abusing my powers! Mwhahaha! :p)
17:37:43 <Biff> Rubidium: and the error first came now?
17:38:01 <dihedral> i workd as a net and sys admin in england for a couple of years
17:38:04 <Biff> i didnt think the game had been going that long
17:38:09 <dihedral> i became slightly paranoid
17:38:19 <Biff> started in 1920 or 30 i think
17:38:23 <Rubidium> hmm, no, I've misread something
17:38:42 <TrueBrain> I know that I can't avoid all things, so I just gave up :p
17:38:50 <Rubidium> anyhow, the house is already "corrupt" in the savegame that you gave me
17:39:18 <Rubidium> and on retrospect, it's build this year (the 128 was because there's some bit telling that the house is fully built)
17:39:43 <dihedral> TrueBrain: one cannot avoid all things, but one can at least decide to not give up :-D
17:40:05 <Rubidium> Biff: when you open that savegame that you gave me
17:40:15 <TrueBrain> I did; I have a big magnet lying around :p
17:40:27 <Rubidium> open the console and type "scrollto 232593"
17:41:00 <Rubidium> that should show you some corrupted graphics in the middle of your screen
17:41:13 <Rubidium> (like half a building)
17:42:05 <Rubidium> now I need the savegame from before those buildings where there.
17:42:28 <Rubidium> well, one that actually "creates" those corrupted buildings when letting it run for a (short) while
17:43:29 <Biff> i found one with the same building, but it could be deleted without crashing the game
17:49:12 <Rubidium> Biff: that doesn't create that "broken" houses
17:51:35 <dihedral> TrueBrain: how about a lowlevel tool to do a 7x overwriting of all data marked to be overwritten on the hdd :-D
17:51:48 <dihedral> using random data of coruse
17:52:52 <TrueBrain> dihedral: you do know that they showed that even after that, data can be recovered?
17:52:59 <TrueBrain> the only efficient way I found is to burn the disks
17:53:02 <TrueBrain> and I mean the internal ones
17:53:11 <TrueBrain> not the metal surrounding it :)
17:53:21 <dihedral> even then data can be revocered
17:53:29 <TrueBrain> after it is burned?
17:53:39 <TrueBrain> as in: put to molucules :)
17:53:40 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: ofcourse, the magnetism starts
17:53:50 <dihedral> depends how hot you burn it
17:54:03 <dihedral> you are burning not melting right?
17:54:04 <TrueBrain> dihedral: when I mean burning something, I mean that it won't be in his original form anymore :p
17:54:05 <Rubidium> just disolve the whole thing in some "aqua regia"
17:54:10 <TrueBrain> melting... nah, more disolving :)
17:54:29 <TrueBrain> that in fact is pretty simple
17:54:32 <TrueBrain> when you got the HD open
17:54:38 <dihedral> but it is possible to recover data after say the building burnt down
17:54:52 <TrueBrain> when the platters (what is the english word) stay inside their chassis
17:54:57 <TrueBrain> you have a very good chance, yes
17:55:03 <TrueBrain> it can handle some heat :)
17:55:09 * Maedhros wonders how hard you'd have to hit one to completely disrupt the magnetic ordering
17:55:16 <TrueBrain> (same as wood doesn't burn when you put it in a tube and heat it
17:55:22 <Maedhros> and platters is indeed the right word, TrueBrain :)
17:55:44 <dihedral> thought they were discs :-D
17:56:14 <Rubidium> they are discs, but technicians call them platters
17:56:25 <Sacro_> the disc is the whole object
17:56:37 <Sacro_> but it has indivdual parts such as platters and heads and things
17:56:37 <TrueBrain> the platters are those small round things inside the disk :)
17:56:52 <dihedral> ln-: i want one of those...
17:56:58 <Rubidium> Sacro_: but a platter is a disc (the geometric one)
17:57:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: disc-formed
17:57:12 <Sacro_> Rubidium: disc shaped... yes
17:57:19 <TrueBrain> shaped, better english :)
17:59:20 <dihedral> is there a shortcut to rotate something when building it, ie a depot?
18:39:48 <Nickman> TrueBrain, how is the NoAI branch coming? It sounds very interesting
18:40:09 <TrueBrain> it is interesting, but a progressis slow lately
18:40:12 <TrueBrain> 32bpp came along...
18:47:19 <Nickman> I'd love to be able to make my own AI's ;)
18:47:24 <Nickman> or edit the ones other have made :p
18:47:31 <Nickman> wich will be easier... :D
18:47:42 <TrueBrain> just you can't manage yet on station level
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19:47:11 <Wolf01> i can't understand one thing: why the grf sets need to replace vehicles and other things from other climates? there isn't a way to use a dummy object which can be used for this?
19:47:46 <Rubidium> those are the dummy objects
19:47:48 <peter1138> because there is a finite limit of vehicle ids
19:48:16 <peter1138> (at the moment, still, heh)
19:48:27 <peter1138> another patch i need to find and finish off :p
19:48:36 <Belugas> Yet Another Uncommited Patch
19:49:08 <Wolf01> yeah, so "all climates on the same map" may be possible then
19:50:31 <Wolf01> a system like rollercoaster tycoon or locomotion, with something like normal+64 vehicles slots should be enough
19:51:39 <peter1138> Wolf01: do you really know what you are talking about?
19:51:41 <Wolf01> and the ability to tell the game to reserve or replace the normal vehicles with the sets ones
19:53:11 <stillunknown> I wonder if anyone will ever make the 3d equivilant of ottd, with good gameplay.
19:53:43 <Phazorx> stillunknown: is there a point?
19:53:43 <stillunknown> Maybe once games are not rushed to release.
19:54:17 <stillunknown> A point to make such a game, or if i'm making a point?
19:54:39 <peter1138> transport empire, apparently
19:55:07 <Touqen> I'd be surprised if TE ever saw the light of day.
19:55:56 <peter1138> but it's got a coder now
19:56:05 <Touqen> Though I think a transport game with a heavy focus on economics might be interesting (for those of us who really like business stuff)
19:56:11 <Touqen> It'd still be surprised.
19:57:18 <Touqen> uzurpator posted an update today
19:58:31 <Phazorx> stillunknown: is there a pooint of going 3D with this game
19:59:19 <Touqen> Phazorx: You can get more creative with the realism
19:59:27 <Touqen> For those of us who like realism.
20:00:02 <peter1138> i wonder how to offer some 'special effects' with opengl...
20:02:03 <Belugas> realism sucks... i hate that word
20:02:14 <Belugas> reminds me so much of "REAL LIFE"
20:02:27 <Belugas> plus.. for god sake... IT IS A GAME!!!
20:03:04 <peter1138> don't think i can do much
20:03:09 <Biff> is it possible to delete a building from savegame?
20:03:17 <peter1138> well i can make a 'night-time' mode i guess
20:03:22 <Belugas> simulation is not real life. It is an imitation
20:03:48 <Wolf01> peter1138, don't copy my ideas! ;)
20:03:50 <Touqen> Striving for realism isn't necessarily a bad thing.
20:03:51 <peter1138> i like my realistic square tiles
20:04:13 <Belugas> it is, if it looses the essence of the game
20:04:31 <Touqen> Not if the essence is realism.
20:04:50 <Belugas> well.. the essence of TTD is certainly not realism
20:05:17 <Touqen> peter1138: Aren't those male glasses?
20:05:23 <Belugas> peter1138 : quick glence, seeing none :)
20:05:28 <Touqen> And she only has one earring
20:06:14 <peter1138> clearly the other FELL OFF
20:06:16 <Maedhros> the bridges look like they're missing some pillars, but that's probably just the way it's always been :)
20:06:47 <stillunknown> peter1138: does this mean the opengl renderer is coming along?
20:07:29 <stillunknown> Does it help performance?
20:07:31 <peter1138> doesn't look like that any more
20:07:43 <peter1138> i don't know yet, i've only been using it with a debug build
20:08:09 <Phazorx> peter1138: is it just servinggeberated sprite image via some 2D surface?
20:08:28 <hylje> peter1138: pls provide the "arty" renderer as an (compile-time?) option!
20:08:46 <peter1138> hylje: but i fixed all those 'bugs' ;(
20:08:55 <peter1138> not really bugs, just my lack of opengl knowledge
20:09:17 <TrueBrain> hylje: we already have 8bpp-debug :p
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20:10:59 <hylje> how do i switch blitters? :>
20:11:19 <TrueBrain> ./openttd -b 8bpp-debug
20:14:19 <stillunknown> What's so nice about it?
20:16:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10161 /extra/pngcodec/ (7 files): [PNGCodec] -Add: added PNGCodec, a tool to modify tEXt fields of PNGs (needed for 32bpp PNGs, to store x_offs and y_offs) (boekabart)
20:17:17 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: Who got the idea for this crazy renderer?
20:17:56 <stillunknown> the debug renderer
20:18:14 <hylje> the debug renderer is like permanent toyland
20:18:47 <TrueBrain> it is a debug blitter
20:18:48 <stillunknown> Is it beneficial to have a renderer without texturing?
20:19:14 <TrueBrain> and I used it a lot to see if a) my grf loader was correct (transparency), b) my blitter was correct (x_offs, etc etc)
20:19:23 <TrueBrain> by getting ride of the image details and placing a single color
20:19:28 <TrueBrain> you immediatly see when something is wrong
20:19:50 <peter1138> should we not compile it for non-debug builds?
20:19:59 <TrueBrain> nah, it is funny :)
20:20:10 <peter1138> i like the null blitter ;)
20:20:15 <hylje> wtf's with the funnily colored letters
20:20:39 <peter1138> hylje: they're sprites too...
20:20:40 <hylje> Error: Can't use a blitter that blits 0 bpp for normal visuals
20:20:51 <hylje> i dont liek null blitter :(
20:21:20 <stillunknown> Error: Can't use a blitter that blits 0 bpp for normal visuals
20:21:25 <TrueBrain> hylje: use -vnull or -D ;)
20:21:28 <peter1138> null blitter is selected automatically for dedicated servers
20:35:11 <Ailure> is there any nice 32bpp graphics you can use somewhere
20:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i always wondered... how did the word "null" end up in programming languages... as "Null" is the german word for "zero"
20:35:39 <hylje> null is more null than zero
20:35:52 <Ailure> null is basically nothing
20:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know what null means...
20:36:25 <Ailure> it could been called nothing
20:36:29 <Ailure> but that wouldn't be fun
20:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was not my question
20:36:59 <TinoDidriksen> Null is the Ø set, but coding languages were ASCII so didn't have that glyph available.
20:37:30 <Ailure> there's a null charcther
20:37:50 <hylje> then you have APL which is deliberately full of special glyphs
20:38:11 <Ailure> but it's tricky to write on a keyboard obviously
20:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> again... an occurence of the word, but no reason why it got there
20:38:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10162 /extra/pngcodec/make.bat: [PNGCodec] -Fix r10161: add MSVC project file (boekabart)
20:40:32 <TinoDidriksen> There's a difference between the null character (0x00) and the null variable state.
20:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> "nihil" is probably the root of the word...
20:41:52 <colle> both german end english got it from there
20:41:59 <Ailure> reminds me how I was amused
20:42:19 <Ailure> that it's possible for a indice in a boolean array to have three diffrent values
20:42:43 <Ailure> technicall, null is the absence of a value
20:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> in hardware design, we calculated with 9 state "booleans" :p
20:44:01 <Ailure> boolean logic dosen't consider mu state
20:44:37 * eekee doesn't like considering it either, lol
20:44:46 <hylje> boolean logic: yes maybe no
20:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, no, really?
20:57:12 <eekee> I've got some shadows of UFOs left from playing a game with 9963, any way I can get rid of them?
20:58:41 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
21:02:46 <Ailure> [22:55] <eekee> I've got some shadows of UFOs left from playing a game with 9963, any way I can get rid of them?
21:03:05 <Ailure> I thought you talked about the image of a UFO being burned into your monitor
21:03:45 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
21:03:58 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
21:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are probably wrong here
21:07:13 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
21:07:53 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
21:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> looks kind of fake
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21:39:11 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: not faked
21:43:56 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
21:44:36 <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause2: that is kubica after crashing into a concrete wall
21:46:27 <mikk36> kubica crashing into a concrete wall @ 290+ km/h
21:46:57 <Phazorx> this looks like remains of F1 car
21:47:13 <mikk36> he bumped into another car, which made him "fly"
21:48:08 <Phazorx> what is it that white stuff leaking from thing above the top part covering his legs?
21:48:39 <Sacro> nothing to cool there i don't reckon
21:49:34 <Phazorx> Sacro: graphite disks go read and heat up to 500C when it goes from 200 to 50 in 2 seconds
21:49:42 <mikk36> f1 drivers have liquid cooling for body
21:50:17 <Sacro> they run cool around 750
21:50:28 <Phazorx> 1500 is above steel meting temperature
21:50:56 <Phazorx> i could be wrong about 500 but it's unlikey to be 1500
21:50:58 <mikk36> they don't use steel brakes there
21:51:11 <Phazorx> michi_cc: of course not
21:51:13 <mikk36> that's why they're so damn good
21:51:35 <Phazorx> there is not much steel in that car actualy
21:51:45 <Phazorx> hmm.. i should have bene there
21:51:56 <Phazorx> montreal is 5 hours drive from here :/
21:55:15 <Phazorx> from what i hear w/o understanind german - he bumped into jarno truly?
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21:57:00 <mikk36> then the front wing came off and he drive over it, which bumped him into the air
21:57:06 <mikk36> which made him drive off the track
21:57:55 <mikk36> 3 seconds and you're doomed :P
21:58:10 <Phazorx> someone else got affected by debris i think
21:58:38 <mikk36> everyone got through freely
22:32:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
22:32:17 <valhalla1w> that's about as nice as openttd via test-mode SDL
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23:53:38 <UnderBuilder> nice to hear the implementation of 32bpp in trunk
23:54:14 <Digitalfox_> I've tried to load some 32bpp files and it works :)
23:54:39 <Digitalfox_> Offcourse the only thing i was ablle was to do this ( still learning ) ..
continue to next day ⏵
