IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-13
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00:09:18 <Phazorx> hmm... does ottd uses static palette?
00:09:35 <Phazorx> is it possible to have it changing with time?
00:09:57 <TrueBrain> I believe there is a patch on the forum
00:10:15 <Phazorx> so palette is static then
00:10:37 <Ailure> technically it's cycling all the time when you're running the game
00:10:42 <Ailure> well, expect for when the game is paused
00:10:57 <Ailure> and haha that reminds me about that static night GRF
00:11:03 <Phazorx> cycling for animation?
00:11:24 <TrueBrain> 8bpp uses palette animation, changing palette colors over time
00:11:25 <Phazorx> heh that reminds me of actual dosa games
00:11:39 <Ailure> tha's a common trick in older games
00:11:42 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: but is that global or per sprite?
00:11:48 <Ailure> some NES games waterfall animation
00:11:51 <Ailure> dosen't have any animation
00:11:54 <Ailure> but is just palletecycled
00:12:04 <Ailure> same thing for TT's water
00:12:07 <TrueBrain> global, and depending on the sprite: per sprite
00:12:15 <Phazorx> i tink MS went further with logos for W95-W98
00:12:39 <Phazorx> actually XP's is same
00:12:57 <Phazorx> 236 colors + 20 shades for shifting :)
00:13:20 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i guess true night at engile level is not possible then
00:13:31 <Ailure> one for mars set and one for temperate
00:13:41 <Ailure> the mars one didn't differ too much
00:13:41 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: not really, as it would make windows darker too
00:13:44 <TrueBrain> or that is what you like :p
00:13:46 <Phazorx> however shaders might be helpfull if it ever gets to that level of rendering
00:13:47 <Ailure> the pallete only changed color for the water/lava
00:14:00 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: but for 32bpp, I might know some things ;)
00:14:03 <Ailure> and there was a funny bug becuse o that
00:14:13 <Ailure> if you set TTO animation to low
00:14:20 <Phazorx> what renderer 32bpp uses?
00:14:25 <Ailure> you can have lava in temperate or water on mars
00:15:08 <Phazorx> last time coopers tried T2M conversion - i had newwater on and it was used on mars
00:15:23 <Ailure> in the mars conversion set
00:15:34 <Ailure> the water dosen't cycle too well
00:15:45 <Ailure> mostly becuse the mars water was just the temperate water with diffrent colors
00:16:01 <Phazorx> i tihnk that is not most concern - toyland hurts youreyes and eats your brain no matter how you wrap it
00:16:37 <Ailure> I love seeing things from the old mars being recycled in TTD :P
00:16:57 <Ailure> I was finding the tubular bridge unusually familiar first time I played TTD
00:18:17 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: so will it ever be possibel to use shaders for changing looks tho?
00:18:27 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: who knows :)
00:18:32 <Phazorx> DS rendered would be nice
00:18:34 <Ailure> and isn't that from the titlescreen?
00:18:36 <TrueBrain> I think it is easy doable in 32bpp
00:18:39 <TrueBrain> 8bpp won't be possible
00:18:56 <Phazorx> hmm... why not in 8bpp ?
00:19:32 <TrueBrain> as many palette colors are reused for other things
00:19:38 <Phazorx> can some intermediate filter take care of scaling resulting picture to proper colour depth?
00:19:45 <TrueBrain> see, for 32bpp we can just put a layer over the map, making it look darker
00:19:59 <TrueBrain> but for 8bpp, we are very much limited in colors
00:20:00 <Phazorx> well... i mean different aproach - play with generated image
00:20:11 <TrueBrain> that is hard because of the windows
00:20:25 <TrueBrain> still, on game level we only have 256 colors in 8bpp
00:20:25 <Phazorx> arent windows use some predefined colors?
00:20:35 <TrueBrain> not always, they use the same range as normal sprites
00:21:43 <TrueBrain> or just make windows darker too
00:21:48 <TrueBrain> might even look more cool ;)
00:53:31 <TrueBrain> my final piece of the puzzle :)
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01:38:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10126 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10111, FS#864): old_new_hash cache was not reset when the position hash were
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02:29:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10127 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
02:29:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: Addition of basic structure for industry tiles callbacks (unfinished).
02:29:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: ResolverObject receives member gfx, making it compatible for both industries and industry tiles
02:29:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: NewIndustryResolver now has his randombits and triggers (even if not implemented)
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05:32:24 <mikk36> anyone here good with odbc / paradox ?
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06:31:38 <Phazorx> hmm... got a save crashing on same date every time 10104 + hash patch
06:31:47 <Phazorx> peter1138 are you awake alreadY?
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06:41:56 <Phazorx> peter1138, it is train collision related must say
06:42:06 <Phazorx> shall i dcc or post somewhere?
06:43:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10128 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4811): missing printf parameters in newgrf debug message
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06:56:00 <Phazorx> jams are massive, sorry about that
06:56:12 <Phazorx> i left it running while i was asleep :)
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07:14:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10129 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10111): Test for x == INVALID_COORD instead of v->tile == INVALID_TILE to determine if a vehicle should be removed from the has.
07:15:04 <peter1138> Phazorx: there you go
07:15:30 <Phazorx> peter, i'm testing unpatched one
07:15:31 <hylje> if a vehicle should be removed from the has?
07:15:35 <Phazorx> thre is one thing i do not like
07:16:41 <Phazorx> hylje: i'm playing with PS44
07:16:46 <Phazorx> as a test kase for SML
07:16:53 <Phazorx> i left it running for a while
07:17:20 <Phazorx> and i see some trains making wrong turns :(
07:17:27 <hylje> might have some funnyness about
07:17:36 <Phazorx> peter is there some "look ahead" limit now?
07:17:47 <Phazorx> probably not ur patch but yapf itself
07:18:02 <Phazorx> trains after waiting for a while and declared lost - choose wrong path
07:18:21 <Phazorx> on that safe some trains destined for north drop turn around south
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07:34:31 <TheJosh> nevermind, has been fixed
07:59:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10130 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix (r4493): SetCurrentGrfLangID returned the wrong language ids for most languages.
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09:12:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10131 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#810]: when removing a dock, a ship will always try to reach the old location of the dock even when it cannot anymore because it the old location of the dock is now land instead of water.
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10:32:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10132 /trunk/ (18 files in 6 dirs):
10:32:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: split out the last direct video-buffer read access to the blitter-layer
10:32:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: added a new renderer and blitter to make room for some optimized bpp
10:32:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: fill the alpha channel in the grf-spriteloader
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10:39:21 <Noldo> TrueBrain: is it faster now? ;)
10:39:28 <dihedral> TrueBrain: you are just the person i need for a quick q
10:39:30 <TrueBrain> nope, this new blitter is VERY slow :(
10:40:10 <dihedral> is it possible to make a tcp connection to a game and run an rcon command without being an actual 'client' to the game
10:40:37 <dihedral> or would it be possible to tweack the server to also accept udp rcon packets?
10:41:17 <TrueBrain> the latter might be unsafe
10:41:25 <Phazorx> peter1138: jams were my bad
10:41:25 <TrueBrain> but someone adding a tcp rcon socket sounds like a good diea
10:41:33 <Phazorx> should not have nessed with yapf
10:41:43 <peter1138> Phazorx: you mean i wasted my morning chasing it up?
10:41:50 <peter1138> i should bill you ;)
10:42:01 <dihedral> TrueBrain: like on another port?
10:42:08 <peter1138> the crashing bug, yes, but i fixed that
10:42:22 <Phazorx> peter1138: i could have been quiet and u'd be chasing even longer
10:42:35 <Phazorx> you should respect my time as well since it is 5 aM here :)
10:42:48 <TrueBrain> dihedral: most likely works best, or add stuff in the current TCP protocol to accept telnet :p
10:42:54 <TrueBrain> I do suggest simple telnet would work
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10:43:22 <Phazorx> reason for detours were bumped station penalty
10:43:25 *** TrueColor is now known as TrueColour
10:43:32 *** TrueColour is now known as TrueBrain
10:43:37 <dihedral> or another port so it can be firewalled :-P
10:43:59 <Phazorx> and since concept involves stations on ML used for lanechanging - it forced some of them to take off right path :(
10:44:26 <Phazorx> i forgot i put -15000 for stations instead of 3000
10:44:56 <Phazorx> penalty kinda implies negatove score
10:47:05 <Rubidium> dihedral: I've not been able to reproduce your bug yet; will look at it again later today
10:47:34 <dihedral> are you using the bug.sav i made? from 1946-11-02
10:47:48 <dihedral> crash is in 1946-12-18
10:48:06 <Phazorx> any relevance to my crash earlier which peter fixed?
10:48:26 <Rubidium> dihedral: it happily goes to 1947
10:48:41 <Rubidium> dihedral: nothing with *any* influence to your bug
10:48:45 <dihedral> Rubidium: if you want access to my server dont hesitate to ask
10:48:58 <Phazorx> peter1138 * r10129 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r10111): Test for x == INVALID_COORD instead of v->tile == INVALID_TILE to determine if a vehicle should be removed from the has.
10:49:22 <dihedral> the game has not vehicles
10:49:27 <dihedral> the game has no players
10:49:43 <dihedral> brings a Floating point exception
10:49:43 <Phazorx> it died from boredom then?
10:49:56 <dihedral> and i just tried it again!
10:50:04 <Phazorx> decided to find out if division by zero is really posiible may be?
10:50:15 <dihedral> Rubidium: do i need to compile with some special option to get more output?
10:52:24 <Rubidium> dihedral: well, a debug compile ran in gdb would be useful, cause then it tells where it crashed
10:53:07 <Noldo> woundn't core be enough?
10:53:53 * dihedral is compiling with --dedicated --debug
10:54:15 <Noldo> does --debug imply -g ?
10:55:44 <TrueBrain> --enable-debug, I hope :)
11:00:00 <dihedral> tell me i have to set debug_level
11:00:28 <Rubidium> no, you just compiled a binary with debug information, so we can actually see where it crashed.
11:00:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10133 /branches/gamebalance/ (99 files in 10 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9620:9670 from trunk
11:00:54 <Rubidium> I'd suggest to first run it and check whether the crash still occurs
11:01:19 <Rubidium> even with the new binary?
11:01:54 <Rubidium> ok, try gdb ./openttd
11:02:07 <Rubidium> (hopefully starts gdb ;))
11:02:11 <dihedral> i called it openttd_debug - just so i dont make a mistake :-P
11:02:32 <Rubidium> doesn't matter, gdb ./openttd_debug in that case ;)
11:02:45 <dihedral> yeah - i know that :-)
11:03:03 <Rubidium> type "run " with the parameters you normally give when you start a dedicated server with that crashing savegame
11:03:17 <Rubidium> something like "run -D -g save/crash.sav" or so
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11:03:45 <dihedral> i never used -g only the command load but that should not make a difference
11:06:33 <dihedral> 0x080f86e6 in SndPlayScreenCoordFx (sound=SND_39_HEAVY_WIND, x=0, y=1024)
11:06:48 <dihedral> 209 sound.c: No such file or directory.
11:09:04 <Rubidium> can you post the result of a bt on paste.openttd.org?
11:09:29 <peter1138> x = 0 == division by zero ;(
11:10:08 <peter1138> if vp->virtual_width is too low
11:10:17 <peter1138> left / (vp->virtual_width / ((PANNING_LEVELS << 1) + 1))
11:10:18 <raaq> hi, how do you disable breakdowns in openttd.cfg?
11:10:22 <dihedral> just the lines after it quit right?
11:10:42 <peter1138> raaq: by changing the difficulty setting
11:10:49 <peter1138> i.e. a long line of numbers. good luck :p
11:11:15 <Rubidium> ooh, dihedral guess you've got resolution at 0,0 right?
11:12:18 <Nickman> who is working on the NoAI branch?
11:12:18 <dihedral> oh - wait - let me check
11:12:45 <Rubidium> hmm, 0,0 crashes instantaniously
11:12:50 <peter1138> panning_levels is 16
11:13:13 <peter1138> x / 1 / (16 << 1 + 1)
11:13:21 <peter1138> x / (1 / (16 << 1 + 1))
11:13:39 <peter1138> = x / (1 / 33) = x / 0
11:15:21 <Rubidium> ok, so the cause of the bug has been determined. Will look at it later today (if nobody else already did)
11:15:43 * Rubidium is gone for a while ;)
11:17:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10134 /branches/gamebalance/ (115 files in 15 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9670:9700 from trunk
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11:39:31 <TrueBrain> doesn't that just make you happy?
11:43:10 <Nickman> what's it for TrueBrain ?
11:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10135 /branches/gamebalance/ (180 files in 13 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9700:9900 from trunk
11:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> evil smilie faces?
11:50:30 <TrueBrain> depend on your definition
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11:57:52 <Nickman> celestar is busy it seems ;)
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12:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> he's got >200 revisions left :)
12:06:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10136 /branches/gamebalance/ (190 files in 17 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r9900:10100 from trunk
12:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> i said he has 36 revisions left :p
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12:32:10 <Thomas[NL]> How do you filter the new features from the svn log?
12:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> svn log | grep -i feature
12:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> add -C2 or something
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12:55:21 <redmonkey> i've just compiled 0.5.2 on my linux. but what does this mean?:
12:55:26 <redmonkey> yapf/blob.hpp:238: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
12:56:48 <redmonkey> yapf/blob.hpp: In function ‘void EngList_Destroy(EngineID**)’:
12:56:52 <redmonkey> yapf/blob.hpp:238: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
12:57:35 <redmonkey> do i have to worry?
13:04:09 <Nickman> if it compiled succesfully, don't worry ;)
13:04:43 <redmonkey> yes, compiled successfully
13:19:00 <hylje> is that some title screen
13:20:48 <dihedral> sound.c line 135 static void StartSound(uint sound, int panning, uint volume)
13:21:08 <dihedral> line 195 static void SndPlayScreenCoordFx(SoundFx sound, int x, int y)
13:21:24 <dihedral> sound gets sent to StartSound given as first argument
13:21:50 <dihedral> why then is it uint in StartSound and SoundFx in SndPlayScreenCoordFx ?
13:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Nickman> if it compiled succesfully, don't worry ;) <- "a warning is something you can safely ignore" :p
13:22:26 <dihedral> just being curious... btw - it's from 0.5.2 :-P
13:27:40 <Nickman> TrueBrain: ghost palins!
13:28:09 <Nickman> Eddi|zuHause3: when you arn't the developer, you don't have to worry much about warnings ;), but it's much better te fix them in the code
13:30:50 <dihedral> anybody feeling 0.5.3RC1 is on the horizon?
13:31:19 * TrueBrain looks to the birds in the sky
13:31:26 <KUDr_wrk> redmonkey: what g++ version you compiled it on?
13:31:36 <TrueBrain> I want to bet on :p
13:34:37 <redmonkey> do you need all the warnings?
13:35:37 <KUDr_wrk> post it somewhere or try DCC it to me
13:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> paste.openttd.org
13:39:53 <redmonkey> ===> Compiling subsidy_gui.c
13:45:48 <KUDr_wrk> redmonkey: what do you have at blob.hpp line 238? I have here the following:
13:45:48 <KUDr_wrk> FORCEINLINE void CheckIdx(int idx) { assert(idx >= 0); assert(idx < Size()); }
13:47:38 <redmonkey> FORCEINLINE void CheckIdx(int idx) { assert(idx >= 0); assert(idx < Size()); }
13:47:59 <KUDr_wrk> yes, the same. So why warning? hmmmmmm
13:48:28 <redmonkey> unfortunately i'm not a programmer, so i don't have a clue :)
13:49:03 <KUDr_wrk> if it means only "assuming signed overflow does not occur" then it is his own optimization hint and he doesn't need to generate warning i guess
13:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> looks like a optimisation thing
13:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> possibly gcc bug?
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13:57:22 <redmonkey> uhoh. i guess i copy and pasted it in a wrong codepage.. it shows questionmarks("?") instead of "’"
14:48:38 <Noldo> the compiler is letting you know that the condition is mostly allways true
14:53:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10137 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Add: console command to get the current game date.
14:56:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10138 /trunk/src/sound.cpp: -Fix: when you got a sufficiently small resolution, there is a possibility for a division by zero when a sound is played.
14:57:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10139 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: all inner parts of OpenTTD assume that the resolution is at least 1 by 1, so force the resolution to be always at least 1 by 1.
15:03:01 <Ailure> I call anyone insane if they actually play at 1x1 resolution :p
15:03:16 <Ailure> I know that it's a common trick to lower the resolution for servers so they run faster or something
15:03:43 <XeryusTC> it was unstable under a certain resolution though
15:03:51 <XeryusTC> that resolution being 4xx*something IIRC
15:04:07 <Ailure> I remember that OTTD used to crash if you had the console open
15:04:12 <Ailure> while going under a certain resolution
15:04:15 <Rubidium> XeryusTC: all those should've been solved by now
15:04:27 <XeryusTC> yeah, i guessed that :P
15:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10140 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#867]: an industry could overbuild a bridge.
15:24:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: celestar * r10141 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (FS#848, r8973): Set the newgrf bit for realistic plane speeds (bulb)
15:35:35 <TrueBrain> with the new null-blitter, the res matters even less :p
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16:04:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10142 /trunk/src/ (blitter/32bpp_simple.cpp fontcache.cpp): -Fix r10132: do something useful with the alpha channel instead of ignoring it
16:14:29 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: Are you going for full 32bpp support?
16:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> do you suggest him to go for half 32bpp support?
16:16:55 <TrueBrain> stillunknown: who? me?
16:18:18 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: You or your alter ego.
16:18:35 <Sacro> peter1138: its very... abstract
16:18:37 <TrueBrain> I don't have an alter ego
16:20:02 <peter1138> Sacro: 5 is a bit more conventional
16:21:01 <peter1138> still f00ked though
16:21:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10143 /trunk/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
16:21:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: store the filename of the grfs opened and allow easy access to the name
16:21:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: store the SpriteID in the spritecache too
16:21:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: add a PNG loader for graphical files
16:21:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Documentation: added a document to explain the PNG format
16:24:04 <peter1138> hylje: *cough* er, no?
16:24:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10144 /trunk/docs/32bpp.txt: -Fix r10143: forgot some svn:eol-style
16:25:26 <kaan> oh man, training was hard today
16:26:06 <TrueBrain> I have a hard day coding :p
16:27:33 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: Is this like the 32bpp format that was already floating around, or something new?
16:28:07 <TrueBrain> it is lightly based on several patches
16:28:49 <stillunknown> Is it safe to assume the 32bpp renderer is slow?
16:29:05 <TrueBrain> 3 to 4 times slower than 8bpp-optimized
16:32:05 <stillunknown> I wonder if a if a switch to disable certain rendering above a certain zoom level is usefull.
16:33:19 <stillunknown> When looking at a huge map, with many trains, the rendering of those trains can make it difficult to go to the desired position.
16:33:32 <TrueBrain> so you have to zoom in a bit :p
16:33:36 <TrueBrain> disallowing the zoom-levle won't really help
16:33:51 <TrueBrain> but okay, as I want to add a zoom-in level, and not all blitters iwll support that 1, 2, 3
16:34:02 <TrueBrain> there most likely will be a function to disallow zoom-levels for certain blitters
16:34:14 <stillunknown> I wouldn't disallow the zoom level.
16:34:19 <TrueBrain> oh, you mean the rendering of things
16:34:20 <stillunknown> Just disable certain rendering.
16:34:27 <TrueBrain> for that you have smallma ;)
16:34:59 <XeryusTC> stillunknown: when you get to know TrueBrain a bit better you'll read through his random typo's
16:35:10 * TrueBrain kicks XeryusTC (bitch)
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16:35:46 <XeryusTC> he never fails to amaze me with his sentences that make no sense though :P
16:36:34 <Rubidium> hmm, is XeryusTC TrueBrain's bitch? :D
16:37:07 <XeryusTC> Rubidium: fortunately not, i can't even imagine how it would be like to have met TrueBrain IRL
16:37:50 <TrueBrain> @kick XeryusTC (bitch)
16:38:39 <XeryusTC> hey! i dont have to take this kind of shit from you [/cartman]
16:41:15 *** boekabar1 is now known as boekabart
16:43:16 <grzywacz> Is this a dev-channel as well?
16:43:42 <grzywacz> As well as user-social-whining-whatever.
16:43:53 <Sacro> hmmm, its normally just a dev channel
16:45:00 <Ailure> [18:41] <grzywacz> As well as user-social-whining-whatever.
16:45:25 <Rubidium> Ailure: where are those patches?
16:45:27 <Ailure> also let me find that highway mockup that's been posted 234234 times now
16:46:03 *** boekabart has left #openttd
16:46:18 <Ailure> I hope I didn't scare him away.
16:47:42 <kaan> wouldnt it be cool if we could like make this game into the sims for train drivers?
16:48:22 <Ailure> I really like the idea of watching the train driver while he's in the bathroom
16:48:40 <kaan> ohhh, and a nudity patch too!
16:48:57 <Ailure> Isn't the nudity on some trucks enough? ;)
16:49:12 <Ailure> (There was some road vehicle newGRF that had naked women on the buses...)
16:49:36 <kaan> look, we are making them all leave :D
16:50:28 <Ailure> they're quite small though :p
16:51:04 <kaan> oh, i must say that i think the artist has too much time on his hands.
16:53:35 <kaan> yup, we scared him good :P
16:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> is he Scaro now?
16:56:30 <grzywacz> Hm? Me? Scared away? Nah.
16:57:48 <Ailure> just do !logs and read :p
16:59:22 <Sacro_> my wifi is being an arse
17:06:57 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: ping?
17:07:07 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: was it you who experienced the vehicle disappearing?
17:07:38 <peter1138> still there, i presume
17:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not tested in a while
17:07:52 <peter1138> vehicle.cpp:902, try changing 0xFFFF to 0xFFF
17:07:59 <peter1138> the array size is 0x1000, not 0x10000...
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17:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> compiling takes a while
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17:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's taking awfully long...
17:12:58 <peter1138> there's loads of c++ shit now ;)
17:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> does not fix it
17:14:44 <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause3: get a better cpu
17:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean the modification does not fix the drawing problem :)
17:25:44 <Wolf01> do you are merging the 32bpp?
17:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> someone is probably doing something to 32bpp, but i'd not exactly call it "merging"
17:29:15 <Noldo> adding 32bpp related features to the trunk
17:34:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10145 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp main_gui.cpp oldloader.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix: make compiling with networking disabled (again) possible.
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17:53:53 <Progman> something annoying part in the new order system, you cannot lose the focus of an entry if you click on the order windows background anymore
17:54:43 <kaan> peter1138: are you trying to say something specific?
17:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> he's trying to say "optimized" but cannot spell it correctly :p
17:56:01 <kaan> i better get me some dinne :)
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18:09:35 <stillunknown> Is there a good reason why vehicles are not a double linked list?
18:12:43 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: what was the "missing vehicle formula?
18:13:02 <peter1138> 1024 something something something
18:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> (x, 1024+x) or the other way round
18:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> whatever is the top left border
18:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's probably symmetric, but i did not test that
18:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> wait, i have a savegame somewhere
18:14:24 <peter1138> ideally paused with a missing vehicle in the viewport ;)
18:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not paused at the right moment, but the train is going back and forth
18:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can clearly see it
18:21:42 <peter1138> server is not responding :o
18:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> it'll work again eventually, but probably not tonight...
18:25:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'll go upload it to bugs.openttd.org
18:27:04 <dihedral> how about makeing exclusive transport rights a feature one can disable?
18:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> if only there was a fast way to transfer it directly from the server... my home connection is not exactly fast
18:35:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10146 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp:
18:35:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Silence a compiler warning
18:35:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Comment style beautifying
18:35:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: define (tentatively) var 0x44 and 0x61 for industry tiles
18:36:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10147 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix: the oldloader did clear some bits for road vehicles that shouldn't be cleared in some cases.
18:36:40 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
18:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> what exactly does "tentatively" mean?
18:39:38 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3->LookupInDictionary("tentatively")
18:41:10 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3 : like... not sure if it is the correct way of doing, but it sure do look fine. However, "i make no claim to correctness, speed, or anything"
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18:52:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10148 /trunk/ (configure projects/generate source.list src/spritecache.cpp): -Fix r10143: make --without-png to compile again
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19:05:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10149 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix r10143: MSVC warnings... (tnx boekabart and glx)
19:09:01 <TrueBrain> so, now we need 32bpp graphics...
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19:15:02 <Nickman> is the rest complete TrueBrain ?
19:15:29 <TrueBrain> Nickman: define 'complete'
19:16:00 <Nickman> Is the code ready to load the 32bpp GRF's? :)
19:17:17 <Nickman> or do you need to make blitters and other stuff to make it work?
19:18:10 <TrueBrain> there are no 32bpp GRFs
19:18:26 <TrueBrain> they simply do not exist
19:19:02 <Nickman> yes, but if someone would make one, is it possible to load them with the current code or not? sinde you said "now we need 32bpp graphics..."
19:19:26 <TrueBrain> nah, there are easier ways :)
19:20:00 <TrueBrain> it was perfectly english
19:20:04 <TrueBrain> I can repeat it in Dutch if you like
19:20:23 <Nickman> I understand that to ;)
19:20:23 <Nickman> But what do you mean with easier ways?
19:20:41 <TrueBrain> I understood you understand Dutch the moment you typed GRF's... was a dead give-away
19:20:56 <Nickman> because of the 's? :D
19:20:56 <Sionide> if (YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt) {
19:21:13 <TrueBrain> Sionide: invalid variable: YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt
19:21:28 <Nickman> but what do you mean with "easier ways" ?
19:21:38 <Rubidium> Josie and the Pussycats ;)
19:21:40 <TrueBrain> what more there is to tell? :)
19:21:41 <Nickman> you have to declare it first Sionide...
19:21:48 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: good movie :)
19:22:15 <Nickman> I can't follow you TrueBrain :p
19:22:34 <TrueBrain> makes you wonder, doesn't it? :)
19:24:17 * Sionide pokes Nickman in the eye with a spork
19:24:18 <Sionide> YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt = brainState->happynessState();
19:25:09 <Nickman> Still not decalred Sionide ...
19:25:34 <Nickman> bool YouAreHappyAndYouKnowIt = brainState->happynessState();
19:25:51 <Nickman> but the you would need to declaire and assign brainState...
19:25:59 <Sionide> cat /dev/brain/ | grep happynessValue
19:26:04 <Nickman> and to decalre it you need to declare the Class...
19:26:15 <Nickman> good solution Sionide ;)
19:26:49 <Sionide> haha, someone in another chan suggests this;
19:26:49 <Sionide> if (self->happy && self->know_it) { self->ClapHands(); }
19:28:21 <TrueBrain> if (self && self->IsHappy() && self->KnowIt()) { self->ClapHands(); }
19:28:23 <TrueBrain> much more safe to use ;)
19:28:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> only assuming NULL evaluates to false
19:30:11 <Bjarni> never presume anything
19:30:58 <Bjarni> if (a) printf("true"); else printf("false");
19:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> "proof by example"
19:31:11 <hylje> interactive interpreter ftw
19:31:13 <Bjarni> I would consider it bad coding though
19:31:25 <Bjarni> I would test for (a != NULL)
19:31:55 <Rubidium> I'd say #define NULL (void*)1
19:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> all odd numbers > 1 are prime
19:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> test case: 3 works
19:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> test case: 5 works
19:33:46 <Rubidium> there is nothing that explicitly states that NULL *always* evaluates to false (IIRC there are some platforms where NULL != (void*)0)
19:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> test case: 7 works
19:34:10 <lolman> DISPROOF BY COUNTEREXAMPLE: 9 is divisible by 3
19:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh wow, lolman got the clue!!
19:34:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10150 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix r10148: show a message to users when using 32bpp blitter and no libpng available
19:38:14 <peter1138> Rubidium: actually NULL is always 0
19:39:05 <Rubidium> where's that in the C(++) specs?
19:39:29 <peter1138> it may not be the internal representation
19:39:37 <TrueBrain> peter1138: a better way of saying it: there are no systems stupid enough to to make NULL something else ;)
19:40:06 <HMage> as a sidenote, Mac (before intel) could allow writing to NULL
19:40:47 <kaan> i always write to /dev/null at leat it seems that way most of the time ;)
19:40:48 <peter1138> Rubidium: no idea, i have no C(++) specs
19:41:07 <peter1138> "The fact that a NULL pointer is just 0 is not an implementation detail. It is not really a value -- it is a standard *syntax* to say that you want a pointer to be null."
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19:41:23 <peter1138> so NULL is always '0' as a symbol
19:42:56 <HMage> it's like in relational database ideas, NULL is not 0, it's not a value at all, it's no value
19:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't read from that sentence that NULL actually evaluates to false
19:43:39 <peter1138> and it will become 'nullptr' at some point
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19:48:19 <Sionide> what's that TrueBrain ?
19:48:28 <TrueBrain> Sionide: a screenshot
19:48:43 <TrueBrain> oh, most likely one of my latest shot for the art-series
19:49:18 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: last time I checked: no
19:49:26 <TrueBrain> it is the only gcc compiler around
19:49:34 <TrueBrain> but I ended up using the package VLC has to compile their software
19:50:29 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: but it still is under development, so who knows
19:58:45 <kaan> TrueBrain: looks nice the 32bit farmland :)
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19:59:32 <TrueBrain> kaan: yup, it does; I only wish I had better graphics :(
19:59:50 <kaan> It will come some day :P
20:00:27 <kaan> when you release 32bit then artists will begin to make grf for that too
20:03:20 <kaan> peter1138: anything really, or free willy
20:03:25 <TrueBrain> kaan: grfs do not support 32bit, and is rather tricky to add; if you want to read more about it, read the file in docs/, or the blog
20:06:02 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
20:12:25 <kaan> i still dont get what you mean by: "I only wish I had better graphics"
20:12:53 <kaan> mind you that it is possibel that its just me that is being stupid :P
20:13:10 <TrueBrain> I currently have 32bit graphics that suck and make screenshots like above
20:13:12 <TrueBrain> which are slightly off
20:13:33 <kaan> slightly off, like in offset?
20:13:43 <TrueBrain> like in they are 1 row too big
20:13:47 <TrueBrain> I downscaled the ones from the wiki
20:13:50 <TrueBrain> which clearly sucks
20:14:25 <kaan> so waht you really need is for someone to make you some nice pictures in the right format?
20:14:50 <kaan> good luck, i suck at that :P
20:15:28 <kaan> maybe you could make a request in the forum?
20:15:45 <stillunknown> TrueBrain: is it really impossible to embed misc files into newgrf?
20:15:57 <TrueBrain> stillunknown: impossible: no; hard: yes
20:16:14 <stillunknown> size restrictions?
20:16:22 <boekabart> TrueBrain: we could png as a big non-sprite :)
20:16:22 <kaan> stillunknown: why would that be useful?
20:16:34 <boekabart> * add the png as ....
20:16:37 <TrueBrain> stillunknown: it is just that grfcodec is... not that easy :)
20:16:51 <TrueBrain> boekabart: haha, true :)
20:16:58 <TrueBrain> but as we want both 32bpp and 8bpp
20:17:01 <TrueBrain> it just is too tricky
20:17:07 <TrueBrain> this way is much much easier ;)
20:17:11 <boekabart> well just define a new action for it :)
20:17:19 <boekabart> but i don't like it anyway
20:17:37 <stillunknown> But there would need to be support for embedding a newgrf and a png into a single file
20:17:55 <TrueBrain> 2 files work just as well
20:18:03 <TrueBrain> newgrf with 8bpp, and a tar file to make it 32bpp
20:18:39 <stillunknown> Does it recognize the newgrf inside a tar file?
20:19:09 <Belugas> or trickering grfcodec. It already can load binaries, for sounds. Adding supoprt to 32bpp should not be THAT much different...
20:19:24 <peter1138> yeah, but is it worth it?
20:19:43 <Belugas> maybe. like only one engine
20:19:46 <Rubidium> the question is, will the author of grfcodec appreciate that?
20:20:03 <peter1138> what, patchman/dalestan?
20:20:04 <Belugas> the only way to know is to ask...
20:20:04 <TrueBrain> and an other side question: is newgrf that good of an engine for this job? :)
20:20:19 <TrueBrain> but okay, we pick this road for now, we will see what the future brings
20:20:34 <Belugas> Patchman wrote it, Dalestan supports it
20:21:02 <peter1138> stillunknown: actually you can embed files into newgrf really easily
20:21:03 <Belugas> and Patchman is more responsive to cahnges than Dalestan
20:21:13 <peter1138> but they won't be used by anyway :p
20:21:20 <peter1138> sound files are embeded, for example
20:28:52 <TrueBrain> I suck in graphics :p
20:29:41 <dihedral> looks a little muddy - like after a monsoon
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20:30:26 <TrueBrain> but okay, enough proof-of-concept
20:30:41 <kaan> you still have way more talent than me :D
20:30:58 <TrueBrain> I just did some filter over the original graphic :p
20:31:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10151 /branches/0.5/oldloader.c: [0.5] -Fix [FS#862]: train disconnects in some old TTD savegames.
20:31:20 <dihedral> yeah - looks like down to 16 colors
20:31:30 <kaan> see talent pouring from every pore in his bofy compared to me
20:31:45 <TrueBrain> it in fact is 32bpp :s
20:32:02 <TrueBrain> clearly not something for me :p
20:32:17 <dihedral> down to 16 and back up to 32?
20:34:44 <peter1138> this is why TrueBrain doesn't draw
20:35:17 <Nickman> TrueBrain: what are you doing in all those screenshots?
20:35:36 <TrueBrain> no, 16 color testing :p
20:35:52 <Nickman> because you suck at graphics? :D
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20:37:46 <TrueBrain> of course 32bpp testing
20:38:03 <peter1138> TrueBrain: do you think it actually needs to be fully stated at some point?
20:38:23 <dihedral> 32bpp / sucking_at_it = 16bpp
20:40:45 <TrueBrain> 0 == false, but 0 !== false
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20:47:35 <TrueBrain> only works in languages that have silent-typeconversion
20:47:39 <TrueBrain> C++ clearly isn't one of them :)
20:48:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10152 /branches/0.5/unix.c: [0.5] -Fix: MorphOS interprets // as /../, so do not add any duplicate slashes (tokai).
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20:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> === is syntactical equivalence, == is semantical equivalence
20:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> meaning 1+1 == 2, but not 1+1===2
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21:07:16 <Phazorx> i have a drive through factory somewhere
21:08:41 <Wolf01> seem that the maglev runs on the mine rails :D
21:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> that could not have happened with the old bride system :p
21:14:57 <Wolf01> yes, wifes were better some time ago
21:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> my keyboard is sometimes unresponsive while i am loading the mouse
21:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's really weird :)
21:15:47 <Wolf01> mine too, especially Q and M
21:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have most problems with modificator keys (ctrl, shift, ...)
21:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally there are letters missing, i notice it especially with e and n (that might be because they are the most used keys (after space)
21:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> btw., shouldn't it be "wives"?
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21:20:27 <peter1138> what, you send your wife down the mines?
21:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> what, you don't?
21:20:57 <Bjarni> you throw your wife as far as possible?
21:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe he is frustrated because size does matter :p
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21:58:07 <Rubidium> yup, it's fixed in trunk
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21:58:48 <Rubidium> and it's on the 'to backport' list, so it will get into 0.5.3 in due time
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22:07:11 <Rubidium> dihedral: it's a fairly easy fix, so you could backport it manually to your 0.5.2 if you want to
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22:08:09 <dihedral> so that would not cause any dsync's?
22:08:23 *** [NNUser] is now known as Nickman87
22:09:26 <Rubidium> no, it's code that changes the volume of sounds
22:10:00 <dihedral> can sound not be disabled for dedicated servers?
22:10:06 <Rubidium> ofcourse lots of the other fixes on the backport fix can cause desyncs etc.
22:10:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: sound is disabled at a very low level
22:10:30 <Rubidium> (as in the level that actually plays it)
22:10:50 <dihedral> could the not be some configure option --no-sound?
22:11:06 <Rubidium> that would still cut it off at the same place
22:11:18 <Rubidium> or litter the code with #ifdefs
22:11:43 <dihedral> so that there aint no code to even play sounds
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22:12:48 <Rubidium> dihedral: #ifdefs usually mean increased unmaintainability
22:12:48 <dihedral> that then would also make the binary smaller?
22:14:15 <Nickman87> hom come I can't take my nick Nickman???
22:14:24 <Nickman87> I'm using mIRC now instead of Opera IRC ;)
22:14:56 <dihedral> Rubidium: howcome then that the game would crash using that save game, but run happily in other games?
22:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> Nickman87: usually means the other nick is taken
22:15:52 <Nickman87> yeah Eddi|zuHause3, but it's mine! :D
22:15:58 <Rubidium> dihedral: bad luck; it only happens when the sound is actually played within the viewport
22:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but it belongs to the other you :p
22:16:19 <dihedral> Rubidium: thought of that after asking the q
22:16:35 <Nickman87> I'll retake my nickname tomorrow ;)
22:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> Nickman87: check if your other client is still connected, if it's not, the timeout is 10 minutes
22:17:11 <Nickman87> it isn't connected anymore
22:17:41 <dihedral> would a res of 0,0 actually work
22:17:55 <dihedral> in the hope it would use less cpu
22:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, 0,0 crashes the game
22:18:35 <dihedral> thought it might :-P
22:19:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: that's been "fixed" too, 1,1 will be the new minimum :)
22:19:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i read that :)
22:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> but since dihedral is messing with 0.5, i thought i'd mention it :)
22:20:28 <Nickman87> stupid IRC holiding my nickname!
22:20:47 <dihedral> what is the best thing i could do to help find possible bugs?
22:20:53 <Rubidium> Nickman87: maybe "/msg nickserv help" helps you
22:21:15 <dihedral> run a game built from trunk?
22:22:02 <Rubidium> I'd rather say: not that nasty anymore
22:22:30 <dihedral> i do like the buildings :-P
22:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> i actually like the black grid
22:23:27 <dihedral> whats with the pink font?
22:23:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you should be able to disable the grid completely
22:24:09 <Rubidium> ghehe, disabling the grid (for plain OTTD) means redrawing a large percentage of sprites
22:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it might be taken into account when drawing new stuff :)
22:24:58 <dihedral> just set grid color to 1px to the left :-P
22:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: the normal grid is painted into the base tiles, not drawn on them
22:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i always find myself trying to zoom in :p
22:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> (on that picture)
22:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: windows 1.0? you can probably google that :p
22:27:36 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause3: was more of a futuristic dream of openttd
22:28:14 <dihedral> i too should head to bed
22:28:30 <dihedral> i want my bed, my bed wants me, oh how happy could i be
22:49:33 * Rubidium checks the direction of the winds
22:50:46 <Rubidium> ooh, you can fart all you want, it won't reach me in :D
22:50:49 * kaan plans to send it by airmail
22:52:03 <Rubidium> the question is, why are those "best" bridges needed?
22:52:36 <kaan> so that the AI doesnt build wooden bridges for fast trains?
22:52:49 <Rubidium> really, tubular is totally unnecessary for *any* non-maglev
22:53:00 <kaan> and i hate it when the towns build wood bridges and my roadvehicles use them
22:53:19 <Rubidium> do you use YAPF for RVs?
22:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i agree... choose the one that is suitible for max. vehicle speed, not the actual best one
22:53:47 <kaan> i just went and made a irrelevant patch instead ;)
22:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, what happened to the noai branch?
22:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> someone got sidetracked, i believe :)
22:54:59 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: just a little
22:55:01 <kaan> Eddi|zuHause3: so how do you decide the max speed then, a bridge will stand for an entire game when build by the AI
22:55:13 <Rubidium> kaan: with YAPF RVs won't take a slow bridge if the total travel time is longer than a detour with a faster bridge
22:55:21 <Phazorx> here is an idea for making AI helpfull - an option for town which lets player subsidize locla transport
22:55:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> kaan: did you ever see the AI upgrading vehicles?
22:55:34 <Phazorx> AI player is cxreated that manages local traffic and hense grows town
22:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> we should install 50km/h speed limit in towns anyway
22:56:05 <kaan> Eddi|zuHause3: i never paid attention ;)
22:56:28 <Phazorx> cuz in large pax games 1st you have to wait for tyhem to grow - 2nd - dealing with growth is a hassle too
22:57:13 <kaan> Rubidium: ok, i didnt know that, i need to start building my own bridges then ;)
22:57:33 <kaan> but i still think its an improvement
22:57:42 <Rubidium> kaan: what would be better is to let the town make road bridges with a "fair" speed
22:57:56 <kaan> its one of those things that makes the perception of the AI skill bad
22:59:07 <Rubidium> fair for road vehicles would be like 80-160 km/h
22:59:34 <kaan> yes, but then we are talking more than a hack, i made a hack
22:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, bridges should have a lifetime, and need to be rebuilt/upgraded afterwards
23:00:20 <kaan> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, that would be good
23:00:35 <kaan> most bridges is build to last about 100 years
23:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> at least for town AI handling, i.e. town rebuilds bridges after a while
23:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> i've seen much older bridges :p
23:01:15 <Rubidium> for normal rail up to 80-209, for el rail up to 200 - 321 km/h, monorail and maglev any of the tubulars
23:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> but 100 years is too long for openttd
23:01:30 <kaan> yes, but when build the designers usualle say, we made it to last about 100 years
23:02:23 <kaan> anyway, i hope i shed some light on (yet another) part of the code that could use some love
23:03:38 <Rubidium> kaan: there are still so many pieces of code that are ugly and need "love"
23:03:57 <kaan> is there a list somewhere?
23:14:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10153 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#869]: vehicles disappear when crossing certain tiles. Fix by B. N. SmatZ!.
23:21:35 <Phazorx> <Eddi|zuHause3> but 100 years is too long for openttd
23:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i said that...
23:21:57 *** tokai|ni has joined #openttd
23:21:58 <Phazorx> i'ts 2231 and i'm still building parts of network
23:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> so what? the current game development covers about 130 years
23:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. the time where new vehicles appear
23:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> of course you can play longer
23:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i'd suggest something around 30 years
23:24:17 <Phazorx> i think that si to short
23:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> or an actual intelligent city planning, that builds 4-lane roads and bridges if the city grows
23:24:30 <Phazorx> but that really depends on gamestyle and environement
23:24:45 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: i havent seen that in real life btw
23:24:59 <Phazorx> aside of Moscow actually
23:25:18 <Phazorx> that's the only city i know where they have 8 lane streest in downtown
23:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean 4 lane roads?
23:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> they are everywhere here
23:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i mean 2 lanes in each direction
23:25:49 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause3: older cities are unlikely to have it
23:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> all cities here are old...
23:26:13 <Phazorx> since only regulation <1500 was "a night should be able to carry a spear across"
23:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> old ::= >200 years
23:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. pre-industrialisation
23:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> road traffic is really only an issue since the 1930's
23:28:02 <Phazorx> yeah, but soem towns had big central streets
23:28:10 <Phazorx> like one or two which form a cross
23:28:32 <Phazorx> however not many had full bodied structure that were able to carry a lot fo traffic
23:30:10 <Phazorx> ttd has different timescale
23:30:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly, so lots of cities removed houses to build wider roads
23:43:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10154 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#870]: some vehicles were not drawn when having a high resolution and a high zoom-out level. Patch by B. N. SmatZ!.
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