IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-28
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00:01:11 <BaXXsTeR> btw, is it possible to delete an company?
00:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a console command for that, i believe
00:05:10 <glx> list_cmds to get all commands
00:05:33 <glx> help command to get its usage
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01:28:03 <Jerub> it would be good if there were a patch to make planes who break down to immediately land at the nearest airport.
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01:35:38 <Jerub> I was playing this weekend and I was thinking it'd be great to be able to click a button on a station and see a little spread sheet of goods that have arrived or departed from the station, and see how far/how much per unit/how many units were transported to/from that station.
01:36:04 <Jerub> reading the code, it looks like that information wouldn't be too hard to record, the hardest thing would be writing a little gui for it.
01:37:40 <Zojj> a recent deliveries dialog?
01:38:05 <Jerub> Does it already exist :D
01:43:59 <Jerub> oh well, I guess I should consider writing it then :)
02:23:07 <Jerub> I was also thinking that there should be a penalty for nondelivery of items due to accidents...
02:23:18 <Jerub> people are expensive to replace.
02:25:00 <Zojj> the $57 you pay a year is insurance for that. =)
02:26:00 <Jerub> that's not a very large amount of money for insurance.
03:28:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
03:41:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9960 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#813]: road wasn't properly added when overbuilding a tram rails with normal rails to for a crossing.
03:51:00 <Hendikins> If I have a standalone tramline (no road), and I cross a railway track with it, is it supposed to add a segment of road at the crossing?
03:52:36 <Jerub> are trams economically viable?
03:52:55 <Rubidium> depends on the GRF I guess
03:52:58 <Hendikins> Why a segment of road though, if I'm not running my trams on a road?
03:55:41 <Rubidium> because 1) there are no crossings drawn with trams only
03:56:14 <Rubidium> 2) if you would draw those crossings (almost) no GRF replacement set would replace those crossings making the tram crossings look even uglier
03:57:33 <Rubidium> 2 holds for both the case that rail gets 'replaced' or when the roads (including crossings) get replaced
03:57:53 <Hendikins> The fact I can bulldoze roads for free but have to pay to surgically remove them, that surely has to be a bug.
03:58:45 <Rubidium> hmm, isn't that the case in 0.5(.1) too?
04:00:23 <Hendikins> I don't have 0.5(.1)
04:01:07 <Rubidium> and a few nightlies back?
04:15:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9961 /trunk/src/ (gfx.h gfxinit.cpp table/sprites.h): -Fix (r7182): some file were still in iso8859-15 instead of utf8.
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04:55:45 <Jerub> It was starting to get frustrating being so darn rich simply by taking goods the maximum possible distance.
05:19:33 <Jerub> oh, that's ttdpatch only
05:21:31 <Jerub> but would work on a normal track too with extended station entrance..
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06:51:05 <mikk36> damn it's hot here... :/
06:52:25 <mikk36> and it's still rising quickly
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07:57:19 <Luukland> Purno, precies de goede :P
07:57:33 <Luukland> die industrieset van jou, werkt ie ook bij openTTD?
07:57:47 <Purno> ik heb geen industrieset gemaakt
07:59:02 <Luukland> grmbl, your right, het is die van pikkabird -_-
07:59:59 <Luukland> weet jij toevallig wel hoe ik newcargos en newindustries switches aan kan zetten binnen openTTD?
08:04:59 <mikk36> could you guys please talk on english ?
08:05:41 <Luukland> was just a chat between us :P
08:05:49 <Luukland> i will translate it for you
08:06:15 <Luukland> weet jij toevallig wel hoe ik newcargos en newindustries switches aan kan zetten binnen openTTD? <<<>>> Do you know how to put the switches newcargos and newindustries on in OpenTTD?
08:06:30 <peter1138> newcargos is always on
08:06:40 <peter1138> newindustries will be always on when it's finished
08:07:05 <Luukland> hmm, according to the newgrf i use, it sais: newcargos and newindustries must be on
08:07:17 <Luukland> and then it deactivates itself
08:07:31 <peter1138> well, ok, newcargos is always on the nightlies
08:07:49 <peter1138> but a grf error message may not distinguish between them
08:08:18 <peter1138> i.e. the grf may check for cargos, then check for industries, and then display the same error message for either
08:08:44 <mikk36> newindustries is not in the nighlties yet, peter1138 ?
08:09:03 <mikk36> then that error is understandable
08:11:41 <mikk36> what's still mystery for you ?
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08:43:00 <Frostregen> Rubidium: thx for fs#813... gave me quite a headache yesterday...thought i did something wrong (copy&paste)
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12:02:40 <Jerub> that industry patch I've been playing with has been awesome
12:02:56 <Jerub> the entire game changes.
12:03:30 <Jerub> it's suddenly no longer "I wonder how far I can carry coal"
12:07:33 <peter1138> newindustries helps that
12:07:56 <kaan> I dont want to stop greeting you :)
12:16:40 <kaan> ubuntu just asked me to reboot after an automatic softwareupdate
12:17:00 <Rubidium> then there must be some major kernel bug or so
12:17:16 <kaan> it did get e new kernelimage :)
12:18:23 <Sionide> give or take, it's the only time you'll need to reboot after an ubuntu update
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12:22:10 <kaan> there, should be settled now :)
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12:42:01 <Jerub> hm. need to report bugs to the author though.
12:47:56 <redmonkey> why aren't you on freenode anymore?
12:47:56 * Kjetil chops Tobins hand off. Keep your hands in the vehicle at all times
12:48:50 <Tobin> redmonkey: You mean why isn't the channel there anymore?
12:49:03 <redmonkey> yes, thats what i meant :)
12:49:23 <Tobin> There were lots of reliability problems, IIRC.
12:49:34 <Tobin> Frequent netsplits and the like.
12:49:44 <Kjetil> (and the now dead lilo was an idiot)
12:49:57 <TrueBrain> there was nothing wrong with the reliability in fact
12:49:58 <Tobin> I think the frequent lilo spam annoyed people too.
12:49:59 <TrueBrain> it was perfectly okay
12:50:03 <TrueBrain> it were the restrictions
12:50:08 <TrueBrain> no PM without registering......
12:50:18 <TrueBrain> nobody wants an IRC Network where you are limited in your freedom
12:50:31 <redmonkey> oh okay.. i hope you'll have more luck on this server here
12:50:42 <TrueBrain> so far it works just fine :)
12:51:13 <glx> we had a "little" problem when they upgraded services, but that's all
12:51:27 <TrueBrain> everyone is allowed to make mistakes from time to time :)
12:51:54 <glx> but they are very reactive
12:52:01 <TrueBrain> you can say that again :)
12:52:05 <TrueBrain> it took them, what, 2 minutes? :p
12:53:32 <glx> TrueBrain: I'm not talking about the 'disconnection' but the little bug you found
12:54:02 <TrueBrain> glx: I Was talking about that too :)
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13:09:12 <XeryusTC> <TrueBrain> nobody wants an IRC Network where you are limited in your freedom <- total anarchy ftw!
13:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> lack of restrictions != lack of rules
13:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> rules ::= you can break them, but you have to live with the consequences
13:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> restrictions ::= you cannot break them
13:14:44 <Jerub> in my experience, everyone who remains after someone is banned is respectful of their lack of freedom.
13:17:13 <Tobin> Jerub: It helps that people who get banned are usually annoying.
13:18:35 <peter1138> hmm, but bjarni's not banned yet
13:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that makes me wonder from time to time, too :)
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13:56:39 <UndernotBuilder> can we rename DorpsGek to Wire so when we kick someone appears "jasperthecat1 has been kicked by Wire..." ?
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13:57:50 <TheJosh> whats up (other then the sky, trams, and train groups)
13:58:15 <TheJosh> 2 wicked features at practically the same time. 0.6 is going to be so awsome
13:59:20 <redmonkey> is there a list of whats going to be new in version 0.6?
13:59:33 <Sionide> TheJosh, two new zoom levels...?
13:59:34 <kaan> yup, in the wiki somewhere
13:59:48 <TheJosh> i was thinking of another feature the other day, havent started a patch yet. I was going to be 'clone quantities'. my only issue was i wanted to know if you can capture ctrl on a button click
13:59:49 <redmonkey> ok, i'll check, thanks
13:59:52 <Rubidium> under 'development' to be a little more precise
13:59:58 <UndernotBuilder> a question: can be added to town founding patch a option for random cities generation like industries?
14:00:00 <TheJosh> Sionide: i know, how cool are they?
14:00:39 <TheJosh> UndernotBuilder: you can generate random cities...in the scenario editor
14:00:47 <TheJosh> random industries i mean
14:01:22 <UndernotBuilder> but I mean ingame, so suddenly appears "A new town is being builded near [another town]
14:01:59 <UndernotBuilder> so for 0.6.0 only lacks newindustries and bugfixes?
14:02:36 <TheJosh> UndernotBuilder: if that was to happen, i would put in a different patch.
14:03:09 <TheJosh> so we should all work on newindustries to get it done?
14:03:44 <UndernotBuilder> the problem is where two people work on the same line, it should get conflicts
14:03:56 <hylje> conflicts are what subversion is made to migitate
14:04:21 <TheJosh> yeah i know. i made a cities patch about the same time as maethdros (i know i probs spelt his nick wrong)
14:04:31 <UndernotBuilder> What means "Cargo translation table support" in the roadmap?
14:05:56 <TheJosh> Should some of the minor features that have been added get listed there as well? such as the zoom levels, trams, and train groups?
14:07:07 <UndernotBuilder> what happened to new map array? is it under development yet?
14:08:18 <UndernotBuilder> so what's up with that?
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14:11:26 <TheJosh> hey are there any plans for a specific grf to be used for trams in the future? one that comes stock-standard?
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14:13:44 <kaan> i think that there is generally just hope that someone makes a trams set that supports company colors
14:17:33 <TheJosh> how hard is it to make a GRF? ill give it a shot
14:17:57 <Belugas> quite easier than what people imagine
14:19:39 <TheJosh> is there like a tool or something?
14:20:59 <glx> text editor + pcx editor + grfcodec
14:21:35 <Belugas> the latter is REALLY needed!
14:22:53 <TheJosh> the devs really look up to ttdp dont they
14:24:07 <TheJosh> ill see if i can make a NewGRF (probably based on the bus one)
14:24:23 * geoffk started to make a webgui tool for grfs
14:24:36 <geoffk> i got nowhere with it yet thugh im still learnign basics of how they work
14:24:46 <Belugas> [10:21] <TheJosh> the devs really look up to ttdp dont they <--- what do you mean??
14:25:08 <geoffk> all the useful info is on ttdpatch
14:25:11 <TheJosh> Belugas: i keep seeing references to things ttdp do thats all.
14:25:37 <TheJosh> doesnt bother me, they have some excellent ideas. and OpenTTD does some really cool stuff too.
14:26:22 <TheJosh> the big bonus for OpenTTD is the fact that one day it could be an independent program, but TTDP could not
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14:27:06 <geoffk> iiirc the plan is for openttd to be standalone by version 0.7
14:27:20 <redmonkey> and OpenTTD is available for Unix and other operating systems
14:27:50 <geoffk> possibly a coule of years off in dev yet
14:29:23 <TheJosh> does anyone like the idea of a 'clone quantity' patch, where you can enter the number of times to clone a train/bus/truck/tram/ship/plane?
14:30:27 <geoffk> could be useful on my longer bus routes
14:30:30 <Belugas> the goal of ttdp is not to be independant. And we decided to hook ourselves on their NFO-grf specs, since it adds a lot to the game. That is why.
14:30:34 <TheJosh> so if your crazy like me and want to have 500 busses service 3 stations (see how much of a trafic jam you can get) it doesnt take you 15 mins to clone em all
14:30:48 <TheJosh> Belugas: makes a lot of sence
14:30:54 <Belugas> and it means reading ASM in order to understand what they do :S
14:33:50 <TheJosh> is it very hard to 'clone' a .grf into a NewGRF, thus to clone the bus grf to make trams (and then just add little electrical wires coming from the top)?
14:34:45 <geoffk> i cloned a ford tmodel truxk with one of the sh trains wow did it run fast on rails
14:35:35 <Hendikins> I've bribed and serviced my way up to excellent, and they still won't let me remove a tile of road I want gone.
14:35:47 <TheJosh> you almost need to have the 'standard' tram set as a GRF not a NewGRF (until everything else is a NewGRF)
14:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Hendikins> I've bribed and serviced my way up to excellent, and they still won't let me remove a tile of road I want gone. <- you have to enable a patch setting, or you will never be able to remove a road that is connected on both ends
14:46:32 <coronel> Anyone getting segmentation faults in 0.5.1 in network games?
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14:51:06 <peter1138> hmm, scrolling viewport
14:51:11 <peter1138> as in, smooth scrolling
14:51:19 <peter1138> now, should that be a patch option? ;p
14:52:06 <geoffk> coronel, not me im using the linux source
14:52:32 <elmex> geoffk: i'm also using the source of 0.5.1,and it crashed once with a segfault
14:52:37 <geoffk> i always run my network games on dedicated server
14:52:59 <elmex> my dedicated 0.5.1 once crashed with segfault
14:53:01 <geoffk> elmex, i was havign problems wiht it but i was having probs wtih everything on my system was something wrong with my OS install
14:53:28 <geoffk> no slackware i tihnk it was all my fault though
14:54:07 <elmex> i've got the most weird segfault with redhat in my linux life
14:54:11 <geoffk> basicaly i only burned the 1st disk and then pulled in the rest of the packages on the disks and did installpkg *.tgz
14:54:25 <geoffk> and KDE was crashing nonstop specialy wiht games
14:55:36 <geoffk> whoch was on slackware 11.0, for now i've reverted to 10.2 which i had all the disks bured and done the install normaly ad now its problem solved
14:57:27 <geoffk> i should of done a pxeboot/tftp install which i will try when i can be bothered im sure that will work, i dont liek burnig disks aymore produces loads of usless disks when they are outof date, i use a few distros for different things
14:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> use rw disks, and archive the images on a hdd
14:58:22 <geoffk> my dedicatated servers run on Xen virtual machines under debian
14:59:05 <redmonkey> i hope that it's still possible to use the original graphics when you put the new graphics in.. in version 0.7+
14:59:11 <geoffk> its one way, but i find cdrom in general is a poor technologfy, i got about 20 borken drives no loger work and disks break too easy
14:59:53 <geoffk> cd's/cdrom's have been my biggest source of problems over many years
15:08:03 <UndernotBuilder> for me it will be a simple bugfix
15:12:09 <UndernotBuilder> !current revision
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15:27:07 <geoffk> oo' sarco the day lenth patch man, i was messing wiht that last night til very late but im so useless and could't get it working
15:28:07 <geoffk> i was reading its in the miniIN which i never used before was trying to figure it out but failed
15:30:03 <geoffk> was 1st time i messed with diff and patch cmds handy stuff but i fear i was doing it all wrong somewhere
15:30:40 <geoffk> would be very nice to see it make it into a full release its wha i wat badly
15:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> two things about patches
15:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1) don't try to extract patches from the miniin, use the original (trunk) versions that are usually to find on the forums
15:31:53 <geoffk> im not sure how that works tbh
15:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> 2) make sure to use a current version of the patch, you might need some heavy wizardry to update them beyond key versions like the makefile rewrite and cpp port
15:32:13 <geoffk> im not familiar with openttd dev and im not a good coder
15:32:48 <geoffk> i noticed a lot of the lines i needed to edit weren't in my files, i tried patching 0.5.1 and messing wiht the nightly
15:33:25 <geoffk> i may have to just be patient for now and wait for it to get ito a release
15:33:51 <geoffk> its got me looking and learnig though which is a good thing
15:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> the diff file usually includes the revision number of the patch
15:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the diff name usually hints to the branch it was based on
15:34:30 <geoffk> i see i'll keep that in mind
15:34:35 <geoffk> i mgiht have anther look at it later
15:35:24 <Sacro> geoffk: if you press tab when typing my nick it will autocomplete
15:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> 0.5 branch and trunk have very big differences, a diff that applies to one will almost certainly not apply to the other
15:35:32 <Sacro> then i get a highlight telling me someone's talking to me
15:36:02 <geoffk> Sacro, ah i thought if i typed it you get same i notice i used a lowercase
15:36:14 <Sacro> geoffk: you misspelt it
15:36:19 <UndernotBuilder> can we rename DorpsGek to Wire so when we kick someone appears "jasperthecat1 has been kicked by Wire..." ?
15:36:32 <geoffk> oops ah yeah so i did sorry
15:36:49 <geoffk> i been reading you name as sarco for days
15:37:02 <geoffk> i nede to learn o read properly
15:44:41 <redmonkey> why doesnt chris sawyer release the grafphic and data files under the GPL? does he have a special reason?
15:45:09 <geoffk> redmonkey, its probably not upto him
15:45:19 <geoffk> depends who the publisher was
15:45:58 <geoffk> iirc he didnt make the graphics personaly
15:46:42 <TrueBrain> but, for a moment assume something is going to happen
15:46:45 <TrueBrain> what would you think it would be?
15:46:50 <TrueBrain> please do post replies :)
15:47:00 <Sacro> mmm, maybe the secret branch
15:47:17 <TrueBrain> the winner will get a cookie from me :)
15:47:24 <redmonkey> TT without the original graphics wouldn't be the same anymore. i hope it'll be always possible to use the original graphics in further OpenTTD versions
15:47:56 <geoffk> redmonkey, yeah i hope they say although i fear they may evetualy become redundant if it becomes standalone
15:48:40 <geoffk> playing online anyway, because others will have to have the original graphics tpp
15:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> <TrueBrain> the winner will get a cookie from me :) <- says the person who has full control over what will happen :p
15:51:29 <TrueBrain> I love having power :)
15:53:19 <Sacro> actually, i wouldn't be surprised if we get half a dozen commits all together
15:53:42 <TrueBrain> it wouldn't really suprise me either, I dunno if all devs are collecting their commits or not
15:53:44 <TrueBrain> they won't tell me :(
15:54:22 <TrueBrain> ( I don't think they trust me)
15:54:35 <Sacro> TrueBrain: you are shifty
15:56:07 <TrueBrain> power can do strange things with people
15:56:17 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o peter1138
15:57:27 *** Belugas sets mode: +o peter1138
15:59:52 <TrueBrain> #I would dance, I would sing, to be mad, for my King
16:00:06 <Sacro> what have you lot been smoking?
16:00:23 <TrueBrain> my gf is away for several days now already, and I just miss her
16:00:27 <TrueBrain> what else did you expect? :)
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16:02:48 <TrueBrain> you guys are boring :(
16:06:39 <Belugas> maybe because some of us a re WORKING!
16:06:57 * Belugas gives back the hug ;)
16:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> working? it is a holiday here...
16:09:04 <TrueBrain> LEAVE! ALL LEAVE! :(
16:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Pfingstmontag"
16:10:54 <Belugas> we do not have the same holidays as you ...
16:11:03 <Belugas> i would like to be on holiday
16:11:10 <Belugas> #Let me take you far away
16:11:24 <Belugas> #A Holiidaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
16:11:34 <TrueBrain> wow, installing WebGUI is.... complex!
16:15:45 <TrueBrain> I am glad to read I am not the only one loosing it in here
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16:54:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9962 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Add smooth viewport scrolling. This must be enabled with patch setting 'smooth_scroll'
16:54:47 <Wolf01> i just red the topic about this feature
16:56:35 <peter1138> i hope i got the speed about right, heh
16:57:44 <peter1138> it's very smooth with fast forward on (like many things)
16:58:20 <Wolf01> now i want to try to make a new feature: random title screen position in the map every 10s
16:59:17 <peter1138> someone tried that before
16:59:44 <hylje> smooth scroll in practice?
17:00:24 <hylje> i mean, what does it do
17:01:58 <peter1138> if you click on the location/eye button in things it takes you there 'slowly'
17:02:40 <peter1138> and from the viewport
17:03:02 <peter1138> also affects scrolling with keys, heh
17:03:05 <Wolf01> now, can you make a smooth zoom? maybe with motionblur effect? XD
17:03:35 <peter1138> hmm, cursor key scrolling is actually nice now...
17:04:06 <hylje> Wolf01: pixel shaders would involve opengl rendering
17:04:29 <peter1138> ah poo, some stuff ignores the patch setting :p
17:05:09 <Frostregen> yep...minimap clicking
17:05:26 <peter1138> and keyboard scrolling
17:07:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9963 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r9962): 'smooth_scroll' patch setting was ignored (always on) in some places.
17:10:31 <peter1138> heh, turning it off shows another 'flaw'
17:10:45 <peter1138> in that it doesn't end up in exactly the right place
17:10:51 <peter1138> (it's with 8 pixels)
17:12:21 <peter1138> a similar problem exists for vehicle max speeds ;(
17:12:32 <peter1138> i'm not going to cry over it, heh
17:15:48 <peter1138> another problem... le sigh :/
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17:25:57 <XeryusTC> <hylje> Wolf01: pixel shaders would involve opengl rendering <- motion blur doesnt need pixel shaders
17:32:18 <Wolf01> oooooook i got it to work :D
17:33:22 <XeryusTC> Wolf01: motion blur?
17:33:41 <Wolf01> no, the random position
17:34:37 <Wolf01> now i only need to randomise the coords every 2 days or something like it
17:35:08 <hylje> you mean we could have a scrolling title screen?
17:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: i strongly suggest making the interval configurable
17:38:28 <XeryusTC> Wolf01: can you come up with a new savegame too then?
17:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> english spelling totally confuses me sometimes
17:38:47 <XeryusTC> the current one only has some vehicles around one town
17:39:29 <Wolf01> now i must set the random interval in the map size
17:39:38 <Wolf01> and maybe a random zoom
17:43:23 <hylje> zomg does smooth scroll do on teh fly zooming too?
17:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> probably not :)
17:47:11 <Wolf01> is there a counter i can use to use as delay somewhere?
17:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> delay for what?
17:47:35 <XeryusTC> current tick % some number :P
17:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, modulo-operator :)
17:48:11 <Wolf01> yeah, how is called "curren tick" in the game?
17:48:16 <XeryusTC> oh, that scroll is nice
17:48:22 <XeryusTC> Wolf01: _current_tick?
17:48:38 <XeryusTC> this is quite RCT like
17:52:30 <Wolf01> there are some different around the code
17:56:18 <Wolf01> ok, i got the map moving really fast and around the same 10 tiles, but is a start :D
17:58:32 <peter1138> iirc the other patch used signs to determine where to go
18:01:33 <XeryusTC> peter1138! enhanced tunnels!
18:05:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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18:24:59 <peter1138> important bit is viewport clamping
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18:43:48 <Wolf01> maybe i misunderstood the function i used for the random
18:45:24 <peter1138> no, you misunderstood scrollpos_x/y units
18:49:08 <Wolf01> oh, now i understand... maybe MapSizeX/Y return tiles
18:52:08 <peter1138> you could use ScrollMainWindowToTile(tileindex)
18:56:22 <Wolf01> i didn't wanted to use this function because i thought MapSize was in pixels
19:01:53 <Wolf01> is really good with your smooth scroll patch
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19:04:27 <Luukland> Heya, All, if i get an error on the "stable" TTDopen where can i report that one?
19:05:40 <peter1138> first find out what 'TTDopen' is
19:05:55 <Luukland> openTTD of course >_<
19:06:04 <Luukland> i have the error report right here
19:06:50 <peter1138> it's either on there already, or should be put on there
19:07:48 <Luukland> Showing tasks 1 - 20 of 132 0_0
19:08:01 <Luukland> so i should look through 132 "bugs" ?
19:08:37 <Rubidium> no, cause 90 of them are user made patches/feature requests
19:09:08 <Rubidium> furthermore if you tell what the bug actually is, we might know whether it's on the list (or has been on the list)
19:09:21 <Belugas> or maybe not a bug after all...
19:10:23 <Belugas> infinite reasons why.
19:10:31 <staniel> Luukland: thats not the bug, thats the effect of a bug.
19:10:32 <Belugas> tell us exactly what happens:
19:10:38 <Rubidium> let me guess, you just deleted a bridge with a vehicle (partly) on it
19:10:50 <Luukland> I have the error report right here, when i use the question mark on a tunnel of OpenTTD, OpenTTD crashes :)
19:11:01 <Luukland> it is in multyplayer
19:11:15 <thgergo> building a tram-rail crossing end us an unremoveble crossing, even i used magic dynamite...
19:11:39 <Luukland> Reason: !invalid string id 0 in GetString
19:11:39 <Luukland> Exception C0000005 at 0042217E
19:11:51 <Luukland> (and a lot more information)
19:12:23 <Luukland> if you want to look for yourselve: openTTD multyplayer, server: Micro World, use the question mark, on the long road tunnel
19:12:35 <Luukland> then OpenTTd shuttes down :)
19:12:43 <Luukland> (and gives a crash report)
19:12:52 <Luukland> clear enough Belugas?
19:13:52 <Luukland> Rubidium? do you need more specific information?
19:15:52 <Luukland> do i have to report this somewhere else?
19:16:00 <Belugas> could you test with 0.5.2 rc1?
19:16:12 <Belugas> MAYBE it has been fixed...
19:16:24 <Luukland> well, it is not compitable with the version of the server Micro World
19:16:32 <Luukland> so i cannot join the server
19:16:50 <Luukland> in SP i have never had the "bug"
19:17:21 <Ailure> ok I think I asked tihs before
19:17:28 <Ailure> but I ask it again before I do a bug report
19:17:35 <Ailure> is road supposed to be free to demolish now? :p
19:20:01 <Luukland> no idea, but once in the old ages, i preferred to receive money if I demolished: Trees, Road and Bridges :P
19:22:27 <Luukland> Rubidium, may i have your email? Then I can send you the "error" report
19:23:06 <Luukland> or would you like it being send by forum pm?
19:24:55 <Luukland> Sended to your forum inbox
19:26:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9964 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: removing of road should not be free of charge.
19:28:06 <Rubidium> too bad there is no server called "micro world"
19:35:32 <Bjarni> nice idea for a server on a 64x64 map
19:35:45 <Bjarni> could be toyland... playing your own weird world :p
19:37:37 <Rubidium> "on the long road tunnel".. I can only find 2 short ones...
19:41:31 <Ailure> I figure that was the answer on my question
19:45:37 <Wolf01> where is the drawing code for the "OPENTTD" string of the title screen?
19:47:18 <Bjarni> L is missing from the huge font
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19:48:15 <Bjarni> I think the TTD grf contains the letters for "TRANSPORT TYCOON DELUXE", so L should be there
19:48:16 <vofflan> can i get some help with setting up a dedicated server from someone? ;)
19:48:35 <Wolf01> i need only to redraw it more often, because now the viewport moves and the letters disappear :D
19:49:38 <vofflan> i have written -d in the shortcut and id like to know if the server always have to start the normal ttd
19:49:45 <vofflan> i just want the dos window
19:50:18 <XeryusTC> -d = debug, -D = dedicated
19:50:22 <Bjarni> Wolf01: we touch that piece of code so rarely so whenever somebody asks where it's drawn, everybody has forgotten where it is :p
19:51:04 <Bjarni> ln-: I knew that you had political views
19:51:08 <peter1138> you can see "Transport tycoon deluxe" is commented out ;p
19:51:46 <XeryusTC> ln-: that is somewhat disturbing
19:52:29 <peter1138> Wolf01: main_gui.cpp:2290
19:53:34 <Wolf01> and i saw it about 10000 times when i made the transparency gui!
19:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i so loathe google maps...
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19:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> it still does not work with konqueror
19:55:09 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: try firefox
19:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but it's not trivial
19:56:01 <Bjarni> it's your own computer, right?
19:56:16 <Bjarni> appget install firefox (or something)
19:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> konqueror has a context menu entry "open in firefox", but that will only reopen the page telling me it's not compatible :p
19:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> so i have to open firefox from somewhere else, and copy-paste the url
19:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> where exactly is this? i have seen such a building before, but i am not sure if it is the same
20:01:00 <peter1138> "32bpp graphics in trunk"
20:01:04 <peter1138> we have 32bpp graphics in trunk...
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20:05:57 <Wolf01> uhm, i don't have idea how to fix that "string"
20:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> btw. in germany they recently found a stretch of forest, where they grew trees in the shape of a swastika for over 50 years
20:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can't see it from the ground
20:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you see it from a plane
20:06:48 <peter1138> Wolf01, i think it's magic
20:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think they cut down the trees, but that did not really solve the problem ;)
20:08:32 *** Viktho1 has joined #openttd
20:09:47 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: I have seen pictures of it. It was only visible during the spring when the trees didn't grow leaves at the same time so some of them were light green and some where dark green
20:10:06 *** Bum1 is now known as GJockey
20:10:08 <Bjarni> they thought that they had to cut down all the trees when it was discovered
20:12:09 <Bjarni> when you plant a tree, the idea is to let it grow for like 200 years
20:12:19 <Bjarni> they spoiled the whole idea of tree planting
20:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the big problem with forests, the person who plants it has absolutely no benefit from it
20:14:58 <Bjarni> the idea is to plant a forest and people will benefit from it years from now
20:15:10 <Bjarni> you will benefit from the work they did years ago
20:15:21 <staniel> technically we all benefit the second they plant it
20:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> have you ever seen politicians planning beyond the next election? :p
20:15:50 <ln-> well one politician planned up to 1000 years ahead, but that's a different story...
20:16:01 <Bjarni> I have never seen politicians plan forest planting. They hire some guys to do it and those guys don't care about politics
20:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> right, and that was exactly when he planned the next election to be
20:16:46 <Bjarni> and he planned that in the meantime he should ban all other parties, right?
20:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, he did have an election in 1937, 4 years after he got appointed to chancellor, but by then he had abolished all other political parties :p
20:17:45 <Viktho1> An wasnt he by coincedence Austrian?
20:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> and 4 years later, there was war, no time for elections
20:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, you can see my house on google maps :)
20:21:36 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> and 4 years later, there was war, no time for elections <-- that is the Roman way of thinking. Their law said that a single person (later called caesar) should rule during war and democratic process was for peacetime. One caesar figured out that if he started a new war before the current one ended, he would still be supreme ruler. After that the Roman empire was at war at all times, usually as far away from Rome as
20:21:53 <Bjarni> making Caesar supreme ruler without the problem with enemies nearby
20:22:04 <Bjarni> no laws about electing new ones or anything
20:25:25 <staniel> err holy history lesson
20:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> inspiration for many :p
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20:31:52 <Bjarni> I mean what if somebody decided to make OpenTTD for women?
20:32:05 <Bjarni> I wouldn't reject female developers
20:32:23 <Bjarni> but they reject male developers
20:32:54 <peter1138> just have a sex change
20:33:09 <Bjarni> now that's a fucked up thing to do
20:33:15 <staniel> I thought that was just like, a support group for women
20:34:17 <staniel> I could be wrong though
20:34:36 <staniel> debian I htink has a thing for women as well...
20:34:44 <Bjarni> "I can't log in", "go away. We don't reply to men". (New person): "I can't log in", "that's serious. We better help you right away".... talk about equal rights :p
20:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> how do they get proof that you are a woman?
20:35:20 <staniel> Bjarni: true, but every group has its discriminatory 'laws'
20:35:33 <Bjarni> <staniel> debian I htink has a thing for women as well... <-- are you indicating that males has to be interested in open source to have a thing for women???
20:35:57 <staniel> Bjarni: lol no, im saying they have a group similar to what kde has lol
20:36:18 <staniel> I got a thing for woman, but mines ignoring me atm :(
20:36:21 <peter1138> so bjarni did you have any ideas on that autoreplace bug yet?
20:36:58 <Bjarni> peter1138: yeah. Still working on it. It's not trivial :s
20:37:21 <Bjarni> yet I have a feeling the result will look trivial :p
20:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's always the case with programming :p
20:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> in the end it always looks like "just a few lines of code"
20:38:28 <peter1138> if only bjarni's unifications were 'just a few lines of code'...
20:38:43 <Bjarni> I once worked all night and the next day my teammates were like "we worked all night and you show up with 15 lines of code" :(
20:39:41 <Bjarni> luckily they figured out that it was not just a few lines of code, but actually some clever shortcut to optimise performance while doing the task correctly
20:40:08 <Bjarni> and nobody ever found any bugs in it :)
20:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> 10 good lines of code can be way better than 100 bad lines of code
20:41:53 <staniel> where I used to work, we had functions that were hundreds of lines long
20:42:44 <Bjarni> which makes them so long that it can be tricky to get the big picture
20:42:48 <staniel> mainly cause they wanted to support different vendors, and all had their own standard
20:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> functions should fit on one screen
20:45:48 * eekee gets grumpy about big functions lol
20:45:53 <Rubidium> damn... then I need to reduce either the font size of buy an even larger monitor ;)
20:46:29 <eekee> ere, I've got a newgrf / multiplayer problem with r9963
20:46:30 <Bjarni> Rubidium: I was about to say that :/
20:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a very rough measurement :)
20:46:33 <staniel> Rubidium: haha yeah, right
20:46:58 <staniel> I believe the quote there is "we can't afford monitors, but if you work xxxx amount of overtime hours for nothing, we'll get you new monitors"
20:47:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9965 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: the ownership of drive through road stops on town owned roads wasn't properly reset when the road stop was removed.
20:47:53 <eekee> eh, not that. It's a connecting to server issue
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20:48:12 <eekee> I've got this newgrf loaded & it plays in single-player. the server's got the same one loaded & is running fine (but without anyone connected)
20:48:43 <eekee> I connect, and I quit with openttd saying it can't find the grf
20:50:04 <peter1138> different version probably
20:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe it's because it is the same file? one program might have a lock on it, so the other can't access?
20:50:32 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause3: ah, nuh, server's in Australia, I'm in the UK ;)
20:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> dos vs. windows version?
20:51:12 <eekee> it's the same grf file, same version. Both I and the server are using Windows grfs
20:51:34 * Hendikins puts his feet up on the server
20:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if it says it's different, it is most likely different :p
20:51:44 <eekee> my friend's playing on the server machine, I should probably call it the host
20:51:48 <Rubidium> eekee: you are just connecting via the in-game gui and you have downloaded the map already?
20:52:04 <Hendikins> eekee: No, the server machine is dedicated, but I've got a client hanging off it.
20:52:24 <eekee> Rubidium: yes and no, it quits just after the password message
20:53:26 <Hendikins> Server is Linux/x86_64 r9963, client I'm playing with is Linux/i686 r9963, both stock.
20:54:16 <eekee> Mine's Linux/i686 r9963
20:54:32 <eekee> no changes apart from this one grf
20:54:48 <eekee> Hendikins: do you do a make install? I didn't
20:55:04 <Rubidium> hmm, in that case the GRF checking was already passed twice, so it fails to open the GRF when loading the game (for some strange reason)
20:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you can confirm that the md5sums of those files are the same?
20:55:35 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause3: why md5? diff does a byte-by-byte comparison
20:55:58 <peter1138> cos the game uses md5sums ;)
20:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> ottd just checks the md5 :)
20:56:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: those md5 sums ARE the same, otherwise it couldn't get into the password requesting phase
20:56:33 <eekee> Hendikins: do youbuild the game in the source tree? I didn't (I made a fresh directory & did ../trunk/configure)
20:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> fine, i am not able to help beyond this point anyway :)
20:56:52 <peter1138> i guess you're seeing "NewGR file is missing '...'"
20:57:23 <eekee> wonder if it needs anything more from the source tree... I already had to copy some dirs from trunk/bin
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20:57:42 <eekee> Error: NewGRF file is missing 'srvttw.grf'
20:57:43 <eekee> openttd: /home/ethan/ottd/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:104: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
20:57:49 <peter1138> although generally people find it incredibly hard to write what an error message says verbatim...
20:58:31 <Luukland> peter1138? Would you linke to have a copy of the fatal error OTTD 0.5.1?
20:59:04 <Luukland> it is not in there?!
20:59:20 <Luukland> I do not know how :)
20:59:52 * eekee grumbles lightly & does cp -a trunk/ 9963/ & rebuilds
21:00:56 <Rubidium> Luukland: we already know the cause of that bug and your savegame is basically screwed (though it can be fixed)
21:01:28 <Luukland> it is no savegame :P
21:01:34 <Luukland> it is a multyplayer game
21:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> all games are savegames
21:01:51 <Rubidium> and can you give the full name of the server next time....
21:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> even scenarios are savegames
21:02:06 <Luukland> Rubidium hmmm, one moment
21:02:24 <Luukland> the server is still online
21:02:31 <Luukland> and i just got the error again
21:02:43 <Rubidium> by clicking on that tunnel, right?
21:02:59 <Rubidium> just remove the tunnel and build a new one
21:03:17 <Rubidium> it's caused because something didn't go well when the company that build that tunnel went bankrupt
21:03:37 <Luukland> Rubidium if i demolish it
21:03:43 <Luukland> it triggers the error
21:04:16 <Rubidium> just don't touch the tunnel in that case ;)
21:04:39 <Luukland> ^^, but it lays in the way :P
21:04:48 <Luukland> i want to build railroad there ;p
21:05:03 <peter1138> well, tough, i guess
21:05:06 * Hendikins decides that he's had enough fun playing with trams, and starts building stuff that makes real money :P
21:05:10 <eekee> would resetcompanies (or whatever the command is) help
21:05:31 <Luukland> i am not the server owner nor the one with acces :P
21:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you have not a lot of choices left :p
21:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> gaaah, that is bad grammar :p
21:06:15 <Luukland> server name: !netgang.net:(3) Micro World
21:06:27 <Luukland> everyone can see for itselve now
21:06:34 <Luukland> i will put a sign there :P
21:07:01 <Rubidium> Luukland: guess what, it's gone...
21:07:26 <Luukland> wtf, how did you do that ^^
21:07:45 <Rubidium> knowledge of the cause of the bug...
21:08:26 <Luukland> but how did you got it gone?
21:08:36 <Luukland> because i could not demolish the tunnel :S
21:09:12 <Rubidium> that piece of tunnel was owned by a company that went bankrupt, which was company #1 (what you would see as #2 in-game). When you start a new company it reuses the lowest free company ID (which is the same as the bankrupt company), so the new company owns the tunnel...
21:09:25 <Rubidium> and when you own the tunnel, you can do with it what you want
21:09:36 <Rubidium> (you can see a rogue company in the game)
21:09:40 <Luukland> explaines everything
21:09:57 <Luukland> next time if you join, use destroy tool on water or trees to go bankrupt faster please ^^
21:10:16 <Luukland> now you have "used" a slot :)
21:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, flatten the whole land to water :)
21:11:00 <Rubidium> Luukland: just let the server admin remove it
21:11:09 <eekee> mewf. rebuilt openttd in (a copy of) the source tree, & no joy with that issue
21:12:06 <eekee> If that's the latest nightly, the server admin doesn't even care if anybody's playing before killing the game for upgrade
21:12:06 <Luukland> Rubidium he is not online >_<
21:12:30 <eekee> (i think it must upgrade on auto or something O.o)
21:12:44 <Luukland> will this "bug" be removed in further version?
21:13:04 <TrueBrain> I am suprised how little ideas people have for r10000
21:13:45 <TrueBrain> when we hit the 10000st commit in this SVN
21:14:08 <geoffk> i dont know what r9999 is, but i gues its after r9998 :p
21:14:20 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by rubidium :: r9965 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2007-05-28 20:46:59 UTC)
21:14:21 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Fix: the ownership of drive through road stops on town owned roads wasn't properly reset when the road stop was removed.
21:14:24 <TrueBrain> That is what a revision is :)
21:14:28 <geoffk> im usualy good for ideas, its just implementing them im bad wiht
21:14:54 <geoffk> dont wanna let me near the code it will ever work again
21:15:34 <ln-> maybe something cool should be prepared for r10000, and then someone could accidentally commit something irrelevant just before.
21:15:48 <peter1138> let's keep Bjarni offline then
21:16:00 <peter1138> he's unify all vehicles
21:16:21 <TrueBrain> he is irrelevant :p
21:16:24 <TrueBrain> oh, that sounds bad :)
21:16:26 <geoffk> is there anywhere i can see what people have suggested for this r10000? im dumb noob with ttd dev so i dont know what its about
21:16:39 <eekee> any more ideas on my issue? Rebuilding it in the source tree didn't help
21:16:43 <peter1138> it's not about anything, it's just a number, heh
21:16:54 <Hendikins> As long as it isn't a crash on launch bug I'll be happy
21:17:18 <geoffk> TrueBrain, thanks taking a look
21:17:22 <Luukland> r10000 should have: - Adjust demolishing costs, Add "standard" trams, Adjust max airports a town, and last: add more standard station names....
21:17:37 <TrueBrain> the winner gets a cookie :)
21:17:52 <Hendikins> My vote goes for regression fix of some sort
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21:19:47 <Luukland> and i am also for: - 2 lanesroads - highways - "normal roads" , with each different max. speeds
21:20:15 <eekee> max speeds around town would make sense
21:20:43 <Luukland> And of course the change of rail tracks: - normal - elecric - highspeed - monorail - megalev
21:20:51 <geoffk> highways i heard mentioned in here a few times does sound like a good one
21:21:01 <Luukland> highspeed = for TGV, ICE, etc.
21:21:02 <Hendikins> Working PBS would make for a happy wolfox.
21:21:19 <geoffk> i know, i want something thast auto places signals on the line takes too long
21:21:23 <Hendikins> Luukland: A regression is when something that used to work gets broken. A regression fix is when you fix said breakage.
21:21:56 <geoffk> might be tricky though, not simple i would think
21:22:15 <Ailure> r10000 should have free porno
21:22:33 <TrueBrain> Ailure: post it! :)
21:22:58 <Luukland> ( Ailure, i do not want to sound rude, but.. I already have......)
21:23:22 <geoffk> TrueBrain, is it ufeasable to think that auto placing singals between stations could be done?
21:23:39 <Luukland> why should that be done?
21:23:50 <geoffk> because it takes me too long to place them
21:23:58 <Luukland> TTD = was RSI openTTD= anti-RSI
21:23:59 <Ailure> Might be tricky to find porn that is GNU compatible
21:24:02 <geoffk> i want things that speed up the build process
21:24:29 <Luukland> geoffk remember the old ages? That you had to click to place a lot of lights?
21:24:35 <geoffk> i'd liek the day lenght patch to work
21:24:38 <eekee> signals can be a pain. counting tiles after every bend in the track....
21:25:00 <eekee> I do too... *shudder* :D
21:25:00 <Luukland> well then OTTD has helped a lot :p
21:25:09 <Ailure> *click, click, click, click*
21:25:16 <Ailure> and then you watch a signal that is turned the wrong way D:
21:25:20 <eekee> actually I built my biggest network back then
21:25:26 <geoffk> Luukland, it has helped loads and im very greatful to all the effort from everyone
21:25:28 <Ailure> and you don't notice it until five years after
21:25:44 <Luukland> total waste of money :P
21:25:56 <Luukland> yes, those good old days
21:26:07 <Luukland> with my favorite map Potosi Merida
21:26:36 <eekee> I had 11 trains stuck for 10 years in one game while I was working on the other end of the map. I already had billions, though, so it didn't matter
21:27:06 * Luukland thinks back to the old ages, when you could buy petrol for 10 cents a litre
21:27:21 <Luukland> *zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZzzzzzzz*
21:27:45 <geoffk> i spent 4 years building a track the otherday its just not good
21:28:05 <eekee> geoffk: so does everyone you compete with though...
21:28:13 <geoffk> to find i had a singnal wrong way which took 2 years to debug
21:28:34 <geoffk> eekee, true, but time goes fast by time you cvomplete your upgradng track
21:29:00 <Hendikins> I've got a 256x256 map on the server eekee can't connect to. I'm going to connect all the towns by tram :P
21:29:08 <Luukland> TTD = best game ever*
21:29:18 <Luukland> * = that works on dos :P
21:29:21 <geoffk> i'd really like hte game to be possible to slow down, i look forward to playign day legnth patch in a release
21:29:39 <Luukland> it was in the miniIN geoffk
21:29:46 <Luukland> *it is in the MiniIN
21:29:56 <Rubidium> why does that always resurface?
21:30:02 <geoffk> Luukland, yeha i was looking last night but im so dumb i dont know how to get it working, but im working on it
21:30:35 <Rubidium> the day length stuff in MiniIN was broken, MiniIN itself was (MP) broken for a *very* long time
21:30:41 <geoffk> was 5am i got in bed last night because of lay light patch
21:31:25 <eekee> mew, I'm so used to it as it is I don't think I'd play on a server with a different length of day
21:31:29 <vofflan> how do i turn of slop penalty?
21:31:41 <vofflan> i have npf_rail_slope_penalty set to 0
21:31:50 <geoffk> i'd like a game that lasts a month
21:31:59 <geoffk> to give time to spend profits on a huge map
21:32:16 <Luukland> geoffk we have to start a tournement
21:32:18 <Rubidium> vofflan: depends on what pathfinder you're using
21:32:19 <eekee> ... that'd be interesting... hehe
21:32:28 <geoffk> Luukland, sounds liek a good idea
21:32:34 <vofflan> im using the new pathfinder
21:32:35 <Luukland> the "best OTTD" all together
21:32:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9966 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
21:32:40 * Hendikins hrms, his trams are pulling in an average of $10kpa, and he thought they were a waste of space... :P
21:32:59 <eekee> OTOH, I think it's perfectly ridiculous for a single railway line to take up as much space as a skyscraper base, and I think any number of such complaints could be made if you want realism, but if you want realism, I think you want a different game, really
21:33:05 <geoffk> i'd also like more player to be able to play with teams
21:33:17 <Luukland> with supreme Administration and Officials, we could really set up a tounement
21:33:34 <Luukland> maybe something for the future
21:33:37 <Rubidium> vofflan: are you sure YAPF is disabled?
21:33:47 <geoffk> yeah its not goingto happenn tomorrow
21:34:04 <Luukland> no, and we need some "fear" maps
21:34:17 <Luukland> where there is no "best spot, or best beginning"
21:34:21 <eekee> I don't like NPF, or rather NPF doesn't like my machine in a multiplayer session with a large-ish map. I thought my machine was, generally quite able, lol
21:34:46 <Hendikins> What is that machine anyway?
21:34:47 <eekee> Luukland: I hear the UKRS is hard to start off with
21:34:58 <geoffk> at the moment im idea im trying to work on but not gining much time to lately is a freely redistributable grfproject but im hoping to get into action with it son
21:35:29 <Luukland> but they have a long way to go anyway
21:35:43 * eekee thinks... "Okay.. AMD Sempron, I can never remember the number but I know it's > 3000. Ram is 1GB
21:35:50 <geoffk> im been working on hex converting codes with a webgui that hope to make available
21:36:53 <geoffk> basicaly wnt to make a web interface for adding grf;'s so that anyone can make a vehicle and add it to the project
21:37:09 <Luukland> i only have experience with HTML
21:37:19 <Luukland> so i do not think that I can help
21:37:20 <geoffk> i can code php which is what im relying on
21:38:24 <geoffk> i got a big learnign curve though with making grfs at moment but i'll get it son enough
21:38:32 <Luukland> little childeren have to sleep now
21:38:43 <Luukland> Good night everyone!
21:38:46 <XeryusTC> geoffk: i dont think that will work
21:39:19 <XeryusTC> geoffk: because you need to be able to define sprites and fix their alignments
21:39:34 <geoffk> XeryusTC, i tihnk i should be able to work that out
21:39:51 <geoffk> i got no definate plan as yet, but i dontn see a problem
21:40:14 <XeryusTC> i'd like to see you handle the pcx files properly
21:40:21 <geoffk> php and gd2 withsome interesting code should do the job
21:40:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9967 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp):
21:40:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r9938): autoreplace would in certain conditions move dualheaded engines in a train (usually to the rear)
21:40:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: moving an engine in between the two ends of a dualheaded engine will
21:40:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: now move the rear dualheaded engine to the front of the newly added engine
21:40:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: (instead of moving the new engine to the rear of the rear dualheaded engine)
21:40:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This can make a difference if there are wagons in the train
21:41:00 <geoffk> i can think of other ways round it too
21:41:08 <Bjarni> wow. Once revision closer to rev 10k
21:42:03 <geoffk> the grpahics may have to be developed in png then later convered somehow to pcx
21:42:21 <geoffk> i dont know hwa support php gives for pcx at moment
21:44:03 <eekee> might be able to run pngtopnm and ppmtopcx on the server
21:44:19 <XeryusTC> you must use the paletted pcx
21:44:21 <eekee> (pnm & ppm being basically the same format)
21:46:06 <geoffk> interesting not something i nkow about
21:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> can anyone translate that commit message? :p
21:46:37 <eekee> (most Linux boxes have those commands. I'm just not sure abotu the server lettign you run them)
21:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> into english would suffice :p
21:47:14 <XeryusTC> you cant use truecolor pcx files
21:47:17 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause3: It's something about dual-header trains getting the engines in the wrong order on autoreplace
21:47:31 <geoffk> eekee, i can work myways round permissions on linux
21:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> i got that part, it's the part about putting the rear front in front of the front of the rear, or so...
21:48:09 <eekee> hehe I didnt' get that either
21:48:22 <Bjarni> you know, it's kind of tricky to explain....
21:48:31 <Bjarni> but it works better now :)
21:49:04 <Bjarni> ahh, let me give you an example
21:49:22 <Bjarni> we have <12345> (<> is the engine, the numbers are cars)
21:49:35 <Bjarni> you drag engine A to 3
21:49:56 <Bjarni> it used to be placed after >, so the train would look like <12345>A
21:50:12 <Bjarni> now it will be <123>A45
21:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> right... and how does that fix autoreplace?
21:50:39 <Bjarni> because the engine is placed at 3 like if there was no dualheaded engine and then the > is placed in front of it
21:51:17 <Bjarni> autoreplace uses this feature to add engines between dualheaded engines
21:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean like replacing A to B in <>A<>?
21:52:17 <Bjarni> because <--><--> is a bitch. When replacing it, it will because <----> when removing the rear engine pair. Autoreplace has to place the new engine between the <> pair to restore the original order
21:52:41 <Bjarni> before this fix, the result would be <----><>
21:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> now i understand it :)
21:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can't have <-->-- in between
21:53:40 <Bjarni> no because it will move the rear engine since I use the normal move command
21:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i see the problem in that :)
21:55:38 <Bjarni> and the solution looks mighty simple... I added one line of code and removed a whole lot of code, but to do that I had to make sure that I didn't break anything else, so I walked though every combo that I could think of
21:57:15 <eekee> Hey does anyone use a train to shuttle passengers & mail to & from an out-of-town airport? I tried it in... 9712 & the train picked up it's own passengers & mail (& made money!) while the plane sat their empty
21:57:24 <Bjarni> I wrote the code I removed a long time ago. I added something to take care of the issue it was meant to deal with later (both later in time and later in command), so it wasn't really needed anymore, but it did manage to cause problems for my autoreplace fix
21:57:54 <Bjarni> eekee: you need passenger destinations to do that right
21:58:12 <eekee> Bjarni: passenger destinations?
21:58:20 <geoffk> eekee, i have tried messing with out of town airports and using trains to move passengers to and from them but it never works our well
21:58:25 <Bjarni> try simutrans and you will know what I mean
21:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> eekee: you can use transfer only to either bring or take passengers, not both
21:59:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> i suggest building the airport that it accepts passengers and mail
21:59:12 <geoffk> i tried usign 2 airports, arrivals and departures but it dont make good money
21:59:15 <eekee> maybe I'll rebuild it with 2 airports or something
21:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you can bring them by bus/train/tram with transfer
21:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> and unload them with plane without transfer
22:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> have "transfer and leave empty" orders...
22:00:18 <eekee> mine's a long flight so it should make
22:01:49 <geoffk> i hd long hauls but it seems to be bad for profit
22:02:52 <eekee> I'm finding the longer the better, at the mo
22:03:03 <eekee> maybe it's a passenger thing
22:03:08 <geoffk> its better but i find there are many better ways to make money
22:03:13 <Hendikins> Is it just me, or are tram tracks immune to coal mine subsidence?
22:03:34 <geoffk> its a shame realyl its something i tried many times including in a game a few weeks ago but it was jsut a waste of time really
22:04:07 <geoffk> it looks good but profitwise you loose out
22:04:25 <Hendikins> Stick two on opposite ends of the map in big towns, fly between them. $$$
22:04:38 <eekee> I was doing a little below par in a game, then noticed I was feeding factories & not taking the goods. 4 airport installs later & my profits were up 40 or 50% into a clear lead
22:05:10 <geoffk> there should be more restrictions on building airports i tihnk
22:05:28 <Rubidium> Hendikins: roads (and thus trams) are never affected by disasters
22:05:38 <geoffk> maybe make the towns a bit more harder to allow them to be built
22:05:46 <Hendikins> Rubidium: Maybe they should be :)
22:06:04 * Hendikins currently has 22 towns on his tram network
22:06:05 <geoffk> should have to have a outstanding rating in a town before you can build one or something
22:06:23 <Hendikins> geoffk: No, it simply needs to be less lucrative.
22:06:42 <Hendikins> The fact it doesn't have the infrastructure costs that land transport has means easy money.
22:06:45 <eekee> anything fast in TTD is insanely lucrative
22:06:48 <geoffk> i tihnk they are able to be built too easy though
22:07:20 <Hendikins> I'll disagree. They can be abused too easily though.
22:07:26 <eekee> maybe restrictions on flat land around them, no building for a certain distance in front of the runways
22:07:37 <geoffk> Hendikins, i can understand you point
22:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> (big) airports should cost insane amounts of money
22:08:47 <Hendikins> Eddi|zuHause3: You can generate insane amounts of money with small ones.
22:08:50 <geoffk> there should be have taxes for planes sitting at airports for long time thats real life
22:08:59 <eekee> oh hey geoffk: do you pu the planes on full load?
22:09:24 <eekee> ahh, I'm not sure but it seems to help
22:09:32 <Hendikins> I put planes on full load on one end.
22:09:48 <geoffk> normaly i have so many oassengers waiting filling the plane isn't a problem
22:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> Hendikins: i did not say there aren't other balancing issues
22:10:10 <geoffk> although that could be my problem
22:10:23 <geoffk> the wait so long the cargo devalues
22:10:27 <eekee> eh, i rather like openttd as it is, lol, faults & all :D
22:10:33 <Hendikins> Eddi|zuHause3: Thing is, if you're upgrading, you can probably afford it anyway.
22:10:46 <geoffk> eekee, yeah its coll openttd its best game online i can think of
22:11:13 <geoffk> i do liek freeciv better but online its not as good
22:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> geoffk: unless you use transfer, it does not matter how long cargo waits on the station, the moment you load it into the (first) vehicle counts
22:11:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9968 /branches/0.5/tunnelbridge_cmd.c:
22:11:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9966):
22:11:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
22:12:00 <eekee> mew, I'm off to bed. nini peeps
22:12:05 <Hendikins> I use transfer a lot on pax.
22:12:18 <Hendikins> Have buses feeding rail/air/ferry services.
22:12:35 <geoffk> i find transfter puts a huge dint in profits i try not to use it anymore
22:12:57 <Hendikins> Depends. If I'm using transfer to fill a lucrative route, it is good for profits.
22:13:53 <geoffk> i tried transfering things a few times on a route but a lot of profit gets lost i find
22:14:10 <Hendikins> I tend to only do a single transfer
22:14:25 <Hendikins> eg. Pax from town by bus to long and highly lucrative rail/air/sea route
22:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> transfer is fine if you don't do too many experiments, and the cargo does not spend a lot of time at the intermediate station
22:17:50 <geoffk> one of biggest watste of times i made was spendign ages tranfering differnt cargos to one central distribution place then sending it out, the profit was pointless
22:18:54 <Hendikins> Feeders can work well if done right
22:19:50 <Hendikins> Say you've got 4 coal mines in fairly close proximity. Put a major station at one of them, and use feeders. It will work well with a single destination point.
22:20:19 <geoffk> yeah i do that sometimes that works
22:20:34 <geoffk> if you got a lot of one thing nearby its worth it
22:20:51 <Hendikins> Long transfer legs don't tend to be worth it so much
22:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> the general problem is mixing cargos from different sources
22:21:05 <geoffk> yeah thats where i find problems
22:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> and this cannot be fixed with the current system
22:27:47 *** UndernotBuilder has joined #openttd
22:28:02 <UndernotBuilder> 32bpp already in trunk? :O
22:30:53 *** Szandor has joined #openttd
22:30:58 * Eddi|zuHause3 wonders how long it'll take him to realise
22:32:04 <UndernotBuilder> this is like in rct when you tell the game to move to the location of something?
22:34:26 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
22:36:47 <Hendikins> heh, when this is finished I'll have all towns with an Outstanding opinion of me :)
22:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, trams need almost no groundwork
22:37:32 <Bjarni> so our game will have the same opinion of you as we do, only mirrored?
22:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't have to remove town roads, and almost no terraforming
22:38:05 <Hendikins> Given almost all my stops are on balloon loops, there is still work to do
22:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> trams need proper terminal stations, like 2x2
22:39:54 <UndernotBuilder> also aRVs too necesary? why not make a long trams set?
22:40:24 * Hendikins finds himself bulldozing at least one house when putting trams in
22:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> vehicles longer than 1/2 tile are extremely ugly in curves
22:40:50 <UndernotBuilder> pressed enter accidentally
22:43:57 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
22:45:11 * Hendikins sits back and waits for his goodwill to hit outstanding across the board
22:46:37 <Hendikins> If life is the sole cause of death, I must be immortal
22:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> so the phrase "get a life" is actually some kind of death-penalty? :p
22:48:06 <Hendikins> Somewhat ironic, I would think
22:48:29 <Bjarni> funny how nobody picked up on me asking him to tell me if he failed to live forever (like when he is dead)
22:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was too obvious to find a funny enough reply :p
22:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was just beneath me :p
22:53:30 <Bjarni> I'm happy that we can solve this on the adult level that fits us
22:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> the smarter one gives in until he is the dumber one
22:54:48 <Bjarni> the stupid one don't realise that it's law to agree with whoever has ban rights
22:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have ban rights...
22:55:31 <Bjarni> it's fun to see whatever he comes up with next
22:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it's not :p
22:57:04 <_42_> Commit by rubidium :: r9968 /branches/0.5/tunnelbridge_cmd.c (2007-05-28 22:11:42 UTC)
22:57:06 <_42_> [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9966):
22:57:08 <_42_> - Fix: bridges and tunnels were not always removed on bankruptcy, thus leaving tunnels/bridges with an invalid owner that would crash the game when clicking with the query tool on them.
22:57:22 <Bjarni> Sacro: now you owe me one
22:57:36 <Sacro> Bjarni: i will give you one later
22:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd be careful what you say :p
22:57:55 <Bjarni> I will look forward to getting one
23:01:30 <staniel> Bjarni: grab your ankles and get it over with
23:03:20 <Bjarni> <Sacro> when you least expect <-- that's not quick enough
23:03:35 <Sacro> Bjarni: i thought you'd prefer it slowly
23:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have the strange feeling UndernotBuilder still did not realise...
23:04:09 <Bjarni> Sacro: who would ever want a shipment slowly???
23:04:19 <UndernotBuilder> not realise what?
23:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly that :p
23:04:37 <vofflan> i got this message on my server
23:04:49 <vofflan> Client #18 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!
23:04:55 <vofflan> where do i change that value?
23:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> in the game console (on the server)
23:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you should not increase it above 3, the game can get very unresponsive
23:06:18 <UndernotBuilder> I don't understand
23:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> UndernotBuilder: that's fine... :p
23:06:47 <Bjarni> <UndernotBuilder> I don't understand <-- we realised that a while ago
23:07:39 <UndernotBuilder> Stop confusing me!!!!
23:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> you'll survive it :p
continue to next day ⏵
