IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-20
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00:29:13 <Touqen> KUDr wouldn't happen to be around would he?
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00:29:54 <Rubidium> because he hasn't been for the last few weeks
00:30:12 <Touqen> It seems that the FollowTrack methods cause stack/heap corruption.
00:30:21 <Touqen> The one implemented over Yapf
00:30:54 <Rubidium> I've never had problems with that
00:32:09 <Rubidium> why do you think they cause stack corruption?
00:32:43 <Touqen> Because my compiler is complaining about stack corruption and I don't appear to do anything out of the ordinary aside from using FollowTrackRail()
00:33:52 <Rubidium> what compiler are you using?
00:34:01 <Rubidium> and what changes have you made?
00:35:35 <Touqen> Well I've made a bunch but until I call FollowTrackInit() I don't have any problems.
00:37:08 <Touqen> So it's be ms c\c++ v14.00.50727
00:37:51 <Rubidium> strange, but most likely you have done something wrong
00:38:11 * Touqen consoles his deflated ego.
00:38:28 <Rubidium> maybe you can show a diff
00:38:50 <Rubidium> that usually helps to tell whether you did something wrong or whether something is very fishy
00:45:08 <Touqen> www.touqen.com/misc/train_cmd.cpp.diff (Don't "think" about what the other code is I'm just bored. You'll see that in the basic case I create a FollowTrack_t, call FollowTrackInit with the structure (I've tried it both with and without a vehicle) and that's all.
00:50:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9886 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Cleanup of industries (Step-13). Include the sounds table into the industry's spec.
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01:08:37 <mikegrb> hmm I have a town where my company rating is outstanding and passenger and mail station rating is outstanding (91%) but last month had 0 out of 45 max passengers
01:09:04 <mikegrb> 0 out of 93 max this time
01:09:11 <mikegrb> and mail is 0 of 22 max
01:29:59 <Touqen> Rubidium: You still around?
01:30:11 <mikk36> Touqen, k, i'm just tired :O)
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01:51:19 <Pontiac> Hey guys. Where can I send an email for a suggestion for airport construction/destruction/upgrading?
01:51:31 <Touqen> You could post it on the forum.
01:51:58 <Pontiac> Off the main TTD site, or off the wiki? (I got here by reading the wiki)
01:52:42 <Pontiac> Just as you typed that, the wiki told me. heh
01:52:58 <Pontiac> What do you think about having a `no fly` zone for airports to make it easier to upgrade?
01:54:17 <Touqen> Pontiac: Well if you use shared orders you can just direct all your planes to a different airport.
01:55:08 <Touqen> I guess a way of saying "disregard this airport temporarily" would probably be easier
02:03:30 <Pontiac> Yeah. Like `evacuation` so that even planes that are in the depot would get kicked out. Planes could just fly around the airport until you're done with the rebuild.
02:04:11 <Touqen> You should definitely post it to the forum and see what the community thinks.
02:04:38 <glx> use search function first :)
02:06:26 <Pontiac> Yeah. I just saw one about a thread about "replace airports"
02:10:24 <Touqen> Rubidium: If you are around I figured out my issue.
02:12:43 <Pontiac> Looks like its `kinda` in the works.
02:16:25 <Pontiac> Two posts about a `close airport` option. That'd work nicely.
02:16:52 <Touqen> It gets the point across
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05:53:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9887 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9867): Industry production statistics messed up...
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08:30:02 <haclet> I have some queston about ottd for developers, is there any :) ?? :)
08:30:13 <hylje> no ottd does not have developers
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08:31:26 <haclet> Ups ;) But I though I can share with my ideas, echh :)
08:31:47 <haclet> OK to be serious. I have some ideas and I would like to discuss about them.
08:32:13 <haclet> And I would like to write patch, but I need some little help for do it.
08:33:29 <haclet> I think that good idea will be create in game two new windows: First - window with keyshorts - as I saw in sorce code - is a lot of keyshort in game.
08:33:57 <hylje> i'd rather have the shortcuts shown in context
08:34:05 <hylje> (button etc. help text)
08:34:10 <haclet> But no all are descibe on website ottd. And a lot of people don't read manual :)
08:35:32 <haclet> defenetly you are right
08:35:55 <hylje> also shortcut remapping? ;)
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08:37:18 <haclet> But i think that would be nice when the gamers can swich on windows and there will see: list: (main screen: F1 - pause, F2 - some esle, F3 - some else, and that , Rail mode, 1 - first track, 2 - secound, 6 - dynamite), etc .. etc
08:37:58 <haclet> do you mead that gamers can change keyshortcat - hmmm, maybe in the future...
08:38:29 <haclet> I talking about some little help inside a game - where gamers can know what and how can they do it.
08:40:01 <haclet> For example combination with - SHIFT (check cost of building) -- I read this from ottd page but is no access from game menu, is it?
08:40:56 <haclet> Combination for signals. It is fany, I plaid TTD long time ago and I didn't know that are pre-signals, since I read manual for ottd :)
08:41:39 <hylje> no hotkey is marked up in the menus
08:41:54 <haclet> And my really question is? How can I create a new window in game. I checked code and I know about 'Wiget' - And I successfulyt creat new window based on game options.
08:43:10 <haclet> But when I am playing and my window will appear - I cant close it - button close - doesn work - And this is execly what I would like to ask developers :) But if is noone here :) ....
08:43:28 <haclet> hylje: are you still there ?
08:43:56 <hylje> iirc you have to handle the window close event
08:44:24 <haclet> but how - wait I look to my code (10 sec.:)
08:44:35 <hylje> and i'd not have a hotkey window around -- rather show the relevant hotkey(s) in the help text
08:47:03 <haclet> Could you more descibe what do you mean: 'in the help text'? (my english sometimes is not enough to correct understand).
08:48:17 <haclet> ok - but where should be information about for example (combination with shift?)
08:48:38 <hylje> <shift>key -- do something else
08:49:15 <hylje> in the end those texts need to be relayed to our translators
08:49:24 <hylje> but the help texts need to know what the relevant keys are
08:49:28 <haclet> but i think - where you click all icons for building - track, depots, etc - when you clik right on them - there will appear popus windows
08:49:56 <haclet> and all of them should have information: <shift>key - do something...
08:50:43 <haclet> hmmm - i think is a good idea.
08:50:49 <hylje> think of a way to pair shortcuts to keys
08:50:59 <hylje> and provide that info to the button help texts
08:52:32 <haclet> I checked sorce code - is no mechanism to do that now.
08:54:10 <haclet> I will think about it.
08:55:27 <haclet> And the second question is: I would like to join to development team, could you tell me witch who I should to talk? And do you know what is required to join them?
08:55:49 <hylje> make some patches, you'll see :)
08:56:10 <haclet> hehe - right answer :)
08:57:00 <haclet> But for example: we were talking about some futures, and now for example I will make patch - I will send it to forum, and them accept it?
08:57:30 <hylje> you can post here as well, but forum is good too!
08:57:54 <haclet> Or is some place where we can talk first - like with you. No I have your point of view for my idea (or many people are thinking about it as well) :)
08:58:03 <Patrick> make some patches and if they're just another "ooh, a feature" then it'll get rolled into the miniIN and never accepted
08:58:27 <Patrick> if it's a bugfix or making the code nicer to work with without changing the game, then it'll be better :)
08:58:44 <Patrick> just ask about your idea here tho
09:00:12 <haclet> Thak you for your help..
09:00:30 <haclet> Are playing ??? In some server ?
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09:03:09 <haclet> Thank for advices and have a nice days.
09:03:21 <haclet> See you sortly (I don't know when) ...
09:18:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9888 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_cargo.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] allow non-spec cargo action2s to work, and using the goods sprite if really nothing is returned.
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09:44:19 <[BDS]-Klaus> could somebody tell me how i can add KI-Player in Multiplayer modus?
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10:01:55 <[BDS]-Klaus> i have set config with this:
10:01:56 <[BDS]-Klaus> ai_in_multiplayer = true
10:01:56 <[BDS]-Klaus> ai_disable_veh_train = false
10:01:56 <[BDS]-Klaus> ai_disable_veh_roadveh = false
10:01:56 <[BDS]-Klaus> ai_disable_veh_aircraft = false
10:01:56 <[BDS]-Klaus> ai_disable_veh_ship = false
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10:03:10 <Rubidium> you need to have the "new ai" for that, but even then I'm wondering whether it works
10:07:36 <Thomas[NL]> ainew_active = true
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10:13:16 <Thomas[NL]> my PC doesn't like the new zoom-levels
10:15:39 <Thomas[NL]> strange thing is it is not slow but to fast.. in some way
10:17:08 <Thomas[NL]> I don't know how to describe it,
10:17:17 <hylje> noises from larger area?
10:17:50 <Thomas[NL]> I try to go slowly to the right and suddenly woosh I on the other side of the map
10:18:42 <[BDS]-Klaus> thx... i will test it
10:19:53 * peter1138 tries it on a huge map
10:20:05 <peter1138> the sort i can't run at normal speed anyway :o
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10:27:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9889 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Use cargo's freight status for choosing livery scheme.
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11:22:21 <valhallasw> is there a special reason ottd is using a recursive make system?
11:22:47 <TrueBrain> recursive? it isn't.
11:23:05 <TrueBrain> it does call sub-makefiles
11:23:28 <valhallasw> it calls make -C <sub-makefile>
11:23:41 <TrueBrain> and how is that recursive?
11:24:05 <hylje> if sub-makefiles call sub-sub-makefiles and so on..
11:24:44 <TrueBrain> recursive it would be if it calls its own makefile
11:24:48 <TrueBrain> which of course is never true
11:25:29 <valhallasw> in this case, recursive is calling make itself
11:26:57 <TrueBrain> that even isn't recursive :)
11:27:01 <TrueBrain> But again, it does call sub-makefiles
11:28:43 <valhallasw> make calling make isn't recursive? ;)
11:29:13 <TrueBrain> is calling abs(myfunc()) , where myfunc calls abs() recursive?
11:30:26 <TrueBrain> which in fact would make many many things recursive...
11:31:26 <valhallasw> then in your terms, ls -R is not recursive
11:31:41 <TrueBrain> and by my terms how exactly?
11:32:42 <valhallasw> that would be ls(/) calling ls(/bin)
11:32:59 <valhallasw> where, in your terms, '/' is calling 'ls(/bin)'
11:33:06 <TrueBrain> calling itself directly, very good!
11:33:27 <valhallasw> ls -R is completely comparable to calling make in subdirectories
11:33:44 <TrueBrain> only if my example holds as recursive too
11:34:11 <Rubidium> valhallasw: but... ls -R is internally recursive
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11:36:14 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: anyway, the need for something to be resurcive is that exactly the same code is called, with possible different param values. I once had a very nice definition of it, but I can't find it now :(
11:37:22 <TrueBrain> I like the math way of defining it: F(0) = a; F(n + 1) = f(F(n))
11:37:45 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: with that defenition, make calling make with another makefile would be recursive (the text one)
11:38:00 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: not on our level of design :)
11:38:14 <valhallasw> and that math way does not include all 'true' recursive functions
11:38:22 <TrueBrain> anyway, a key word missing in my line: repeatidly :)
11:38:38 <TrueBrain> that math statement is _the_ recursion theorem :)
11:38:56 <valhallasw> i fail to see how it would cover ls -R
11:39:00 <TrueBrain> (Assuming f works from X to X, and F from N to X of course)
11:39:13 <TrueBrain> you should open the source code of 'ls' and it will come to you :p
11:39:16 <valhallasw> let's reed for one thing
11:39:50 <valhallasw> but still that recursive theorem does not include expanding recursion
11:39:56 <TrueBrain> darn, who would have guessed those Lineair Algabra leasons were good for something :p
11:40:17 <valhallasw> that absolutely has nothing to do with LA
11:40:21 <TrueBrain> lol, wikipedia has a nice one:
11:40:45 <TrueBrain> euh, AN of course :) haha
11:41:52 <valhallasw> lets try that theorem with ln -R /... F(0) = '/'; F(1) = ls('/'); F(2) = ls('/bin'), F(2) = ls('/usr'), F(2)= ???
11:43:06 <valhallasw> hm, it might work when we define f(a b c (...)) to be concat(f(a), f(b), f(c) ...)
11:43:33 <TrueBrain> nothing wrong with your creativity :)
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13:20:07 <l_Blue_l> Hey if there are any devs on here i was wondering if you could comment on my Advanced non_stop patch here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31945 . All it does is split the non-stop into two types basically VIA (TTDpatch non-stop) and Stop All Stations (The inverse of the original non-stop).
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13:24:03 <skidd13> l_Blue_l: I'd say one thing comment your functions (->wiki)
13:24:03 <TrueBrain> wasn't there a patch setting already doing so?
13:25:32 <l_Blue_l> but this removes it as a patch option. HAHAHA yes yes sorry i will comment on the functions.
13:26:34 <skidd13> IIRC The patch setting applys global. The patch let the player choose indicvidual.
13:27:14 <skidd13> s/indicvidual/individual/
13:29:30 <l_Blue_l> sorry i dont understand
13:31:01 <skidd13> The patch setting applys to all non-stop orders. l_Blue_l's patch creates an additional order bit.
13:36:50 <skidd13> l_Blue_l: I read a while through your code and it's very hard to read (IMO). It'll be much easier if there are more comments and more newlines to group some code together.
13:39:52 <ln-> the feature will probably be considered useless
13:43:09 <l_Blue_l> There is even a comment within the OpenTTD code to split it into two (original and ttfpatch style handling)
13:44:32 <l_Blue_l> @skidd13: I will give the code a good going over as i agree with you as i still dont understand some things i have done.
13:45:52 <skidd13> @l_Blue_l: :) I did that too with my order_gui code after I realised that too. ;)
13:46:06 <Rubidium> l_Blue_l: first, that patch contains much more than just changed nonstop stuff
13:47:02 <ln-> in locomotion this setting is called local/express, it's settable per train, and i think it's a great feature.
13:47:22 <Rubidium> secondly I suggest to have "go to X", "go to directly to X" (non-stop), "go via X" (waypoint) and "go directly via X" (non-stop + waypoint)
13:47:37 <ln-> but only one dev has shown even some interest in such featuer.
13:50:23 <l_Blue_l> it includes non-stop and new way to display text .... there no other fetures included in the advanced non-stop patch just left over code. (i have just started to use svn (thankgod) and i just had to remove all the unrelated code bnut i realised i have missed a lot.
13:53:08 <l_Blue_l> @Rubidium: On the subject of "go directly to X" i felt that this is to long for what i would consider the normal order type. But to be honest i dont mind what it is
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14:16:23 <Rubidium> I'd rather have trains waiting for a red signal than just going through red signals ;)
14:58:17 <Bjarni> ln-: I read about it like two days ago
14:58:28 <Bjarni> it's too old to even be yesterday's news :p
14:59:15 <Bjarni> it would be cool to add icons for OTTD hotkeys in it
14:59:28 <Bjarni> now if only somebody would donate a keyboard to test it on...
15:00:02 <ln-> the price is unexpectedly high
15:00:05 <TrueBrain> just two days ago? That is _very_ old news
15:01:15 <TrueBrain> I really wonder how long a keyboard like this survives normal usage...
15:01:18 <ln-> i saw it on slashdot, so of course it is old.
15:01:21 <Bjarni> <ln-> the price is unexpectedly high <-- they have a patent from 1996. I think they spent a great deal in research to make this work
15:01:46 <Bjarni> the actual price of the keyboard is likely much lower, but if it is to cover the cost of research since 1996...
15:02:30 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> I really wonder how long a keyboard like this survives normal usage... <-- me too. However if you are rich enough to buy such a keyboard, you can pay for another one when it's broken :p
15:02:34 <ln-> but the big audience is not ready to pay the price of two modern computers for a cool keyboard.
15:02:41 <Bjarni> (or not, because you are broke when you paid the first one)
15:03:00 <TrueBrain> at least they finally have an any key
15:03:05 <valhallasw> Bjarni: there is a reason that thing is a top-10 vaporware item
15:03:05 <TrueBrain> takes away a lot of stupid questions
15:03:34 <valhallasw> just like spore >_<
15:04:01 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> at least they finally have an any key <-- when it comes out, somebody will release an app to change a button into saying "any"
15:04:07 <TrueBrain> I wonder, if I would have such a keyboard, I think it would never change of layout :p
15:04:19 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: did you view the image?!
15:05:12 <Bjarni> it points to keys and call them any, but it doesn't say any on the keys themselves
15:05:50 <valhallasw> 3d realms actually free'ed duke3d's source :o
15:05:51 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> I wonder, if I would have such a keyboard, I think it would never change of layout :p <--- well, apps and games would have to apply hotkeys to it by themselves to make it really useful
15:07:56 <Bjarni> it needs external power :(
15:08:55 <Bjarni> they should combine it with that thin LCD Sony just published. That one will only need power when changing pixels. That way it could be powered though USB only
15:09:53 <Bjarni> however placing a 0,3 mm LCD screen on top of each key might not be durable enough
15:10:07 <Phazorx> hmm UKRS's 3xFreightliner Container Rake has a bug with gradual loading :/
15:10:08 <Bjarni> 0,3 mm thick (or thin), that is
15:11:00 <ln-> only the transparent key cap
15:11:54 <Bjarni> I usually don't look at keys from the top. I usually look at them angled. This will not be good if the image is too low in the key
15:12:34 <Bjarni> I'm pretty sure that there is a future in this keyboard idea, but I'm not so sure that the first generation will be a hit
15:13:37 <Bjarni> with improved technology, I guess it would be likely to make them standard so it's one keyboard for the entire world and all OSes. Then the computer will set up the keys it needs
15:14:34 <Bjarni> the patent of using changing icons on a keyboard is from 1996. When will it run out?
15:14:52 <Bjarni> I mean how long should we wait until some other company will try to take over? :)
15:14:53 <ln-> with that key layout in the picture it's not possible to use the normal fin/swe layout.
15:15:55 <ln-> i don't recall ever seeing a danish keyboard
15:16:04 <Rubidium> Phazorx: what's wrong with it?
15:16:07 <Bjarni> as I said: it's not likely that the first generation will be a great hit like later (and cheaper) versions might become
15:16:07 <ln-> (but i can believe they exist)
15:16:29 <Bjarni> <ln-> (but i can believe they exist) <-- you trust something that you have never seen?
15:16:45 <Bjarni> <ln-> i don't recall ever seeing a danish keyboard <-- funny. I have
15:16:52 <Bjarni> in fact I'm using one right now
15:17:13 <Bjarni> let me take a screenshot so you can see it
15:18:52 <Phazorx> Rubidium: it is considered 1 vagon
15:19:01 <Phazorx> so all 3 load X unit of cargo per day
15:19:17 <Phazorx> so it's not 3 40 cargo cars
15:19:34 <Phazorx> and it loads tree times longer
15:21:13 <Rubidium> why does that wagon only take goods? now I need to build a whole network to fill the wagon :(
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15:47:34 <Rubidium> Phazorx: it seems to work in trunk with ukrs 3.04
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15:52:21 <Phazorx> Rubidium: try loading 2 trains of similar capacity
15:53:04 <Phazorx> 1x120t in form of 3x40 loads much longer than 1x40
15:53:27 <Phazorx> it is UKRS issues i;d say since gradual loading has per car per time algorithm
15:53:32 <Phazorx> 5 something per whatever
15:53:43 <Phazorx> if car is sold as one it treats it as one
15:54:01 <Phazorx> so instead of 8 ticks to load 40 it is 24 ticks to load 120
15:56:33 <peter1138> 11 crates every tick
15:58:05 <glx> gradual loading is fully configurable by grf author
16:01:37 <Phazorx> something was weird i guess
16:01:43 <Phazorx> i dons see a problem anymore :/
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16:11:10 <skidd13> A question about new *.h files: should all enums and static stuct's placed there or only the global used suff?
16:11:38 <peter1138> only if it's used elsewhere, really
16:15:06 <skidd13> I'd like to see it in trunk (If it's clean ;) ).
16:17:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9890 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Don't allocate space for 0 spriteset ranges
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18:07:03 <MiO> i have troubles to get ottd to compile unter vs8, is there any package that includes the required libraries ?
18:10:18 <Rubidium> it's called openttd-useful.zip and it's on the SF page, but there's a link of the wiki
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18:24:13 <Scarzzurs> I just got an assertion on openttd with the passengers/mail with specific destination patch...
18:24:25 <Scarzzurs> Would you guys know if the author comes around here?
18:24:48 <Scarzzurs> Otherwise i guess i could post it on the forums, although i'd prefer hand it here...
18:24:54 <Scarzzurs> Hmm, ok. Thanks :-)
18:35:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9891 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#787]: the manage list menu wasn't removed/updated when changing to another group making it able to perform "group" actions for "all vehicles", which would cause a crash.
18:39:35 <Wolf01> i just seen this on the forum: "Now that there are 2 more zoom levels (8x and 16x)..." but... i want zoom IN not zoom OUT!!!!
18:51:17 <Rubidium> Wolf01: zooming isn't as easy as zooming out
18:51:53 <peter1138> just press ctrl-D ;)
18:52:19 <peter1138> but really, the game's mechanics can't take a larger size
18:52:23 <Wolf01> but ctrl-D is ugly, all the ui are so big
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18:55:24 <Wolf01> the zoom out need some optimization as asked in the forum, trees not visible seem bad, but don't draw vehicles is way better
18:56:33 <peter1138> 4x is what the 32bpp artists wanted, heh
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19:14:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9892 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: lots of ground work for allowing multiple types of "road" with multiple owners on a single tile.
19:22:17 <Osai> SpComb: my nick is on second place of the most referenced nicks oO
19:22:47 <SpComb> in the stats? Who knows
19:24:26 <boekabart> TrueBrain: good work on the zoom levels, i'm checking that diff right now, looks good.
19:27:18 <Rubidium> ooh, MiO's just telling he's going to implement PBS ;)
19:27:27 <Wolf01> Rubidium, can you explain to me that commit message? i mean what it will allow to do
19:27:41 <Rubidium> Wolf01: my last one?
19:27:57 <Rubidium> it does absolutely nothing at the moment
19:28:21 <Wolf01> yeah, i already noticed the "ground work"
19:28:24 <boekabart> Rubidium: Q was: what will it allow to do
19:28:40 <Rubidium> "multiple types of "road" with multiple owners on a single tile"
19:29:09 <boekabart> Rubidium: can you give us an example?
19:29:10 <Wolf01> like a step forward for single ways?
19:29:46 <Wolf01> and maybe road waypoints
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19:33:40 <Patrick> they drive around like normal trams
19:33:44 <Patrick> they don't even know they're dead
19:33:59 * hylje drives a tram several times a week
19:34:26 <peter1138> fairly large difference :)
19:34:31 <Wolf01> really don't you know the ghost tram?
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19:50:08 <MiO> it seems to be easy to implement PBS, any coder interested in coop work on a new PBS System ?
19:51:14 <Rubidium> MiO: you should start with some (very) good design before even attempting to code it
19:52:52 <MiO> i'm searching for an ottd coder, to give me an short introduction on the ottd design
19:52:59 <hylje> Bjarni: i was expecting something silly involving trains
19:54:15 <peter1138> design of what? heh
19:54:59 <Patrick> hackykid's work on PBS was hgood
19:55:04 <peter1138> oh, the crossing goes down, heh.
19:55:18 <MiO> Rubidium: it's my first day on ottd code and i must say, it is very hard to read. sometimes oop and sometimes kernel mode c style code
19:56:45 <MiO> i have found the section where pre signals are checked for switching to green
19:56:47 <Wolf01> :OOO i just seen a ghost: starcraft 2 is being developed!!!
19:57:02 <hylje> Wolf01: welcome to yesterday
19:57:21 <peter1138> some guy was doing something with pbs last night
19:57:24 <Scarzzurs> looks great though :-)
19:57:28 <Wolf01> "Wolf01 and the world of the past day"
19:57:34 <MiO> now i'm searching for a method to block a path for yapf
20:03:44 <Bjarni> <hylje> Bjarni: i was expecting something silly involving trains <--- well, it did involve tracks. Did you expect me to record me doing something stupid and put it online?
20:04:08 <Bjarni> like I ever do anything stupid on the rails :p
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20:09:45 <Bjarni> I like when he says that the rails were higher than he expected xD
20:11:55 <ln-> does that happen in OTTD world, as there's a 90-degree crossing?
20:15:18 <Bjarni> you can make an X rail crossing in OTTD if you like
20:15:18 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
20:17:03 <ln-> what i meant was.. how common are 90-degree crossings in real life, as seen on the video?
20:17:28 <Ailure> there's one not too far from here I think
20:17:34 <Ailure> although only slightly
20:17:55 <Ailure> notice that the gate breaks too
20:18:04 <Ailure> they're made for breaking easily
20:18:20 <Ailure> incase someone get's stuck inbetween
20:19:11 <Ailure> unless that was some kind of signal failure
20:19:15 <Ailure> the guy only have himself to blame
20:19:30 <Bjarni> <ln-> what i meant was.. how common are 90-degree crossings in real life, as seen on the video? <-- I have never seen them in real life, but I know that specially tramways, harbour lines and other lines in buildup areas can use them
20:19:58 <boekabart> in Utrecht, NL there is a double one (as in, 2 double tracks cross at approx 90 degrees)
20:20:03 <Bjarni> however it's preferred to make lines cross at different altitude because it makes the signals way simpler and it's safer
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20:22:54 <Bjarni> damn, now I can't find it. The other day I found a video of a Japanese station with platforms on both sides of a road crossing. A train comes in, stops on the road and opens the doors next to both platforms, but not the ones on the road. The doors appears to be opened by the train (not the passengers), so it's build into the system to do that o_O
20:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> gnaa... i hate parents
20:23:49 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause: move away :)
20:24:04 <Bjarni> I have seen crossings at the end of platforms with trains in them because they were too long, but in the middle of the platform!!!
20:24:27 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> gnaa... i hate parents <--- maybe they hate kids
20:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure they'd find a way to annoy me anway, boekabart :)
20:25:12 <lolman> Parents are nothing but trouble anyway
20:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> like this time... i am away for 4 days
20:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and leave the computer running
20:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> of course my parents go into the room, and close the window
20:26:14 <Eddi|zuHause> when i come back, there's 50°C in the room, and the computer locked up
20:26:37 <lolman> Least it locked up and didn't fry itself to death
20:26:47 <Bjarni> you should build in auto opening windows based on indoor temperature
20:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no need for that... the window is open all the time
20:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> except, when someone else messes around
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20:29:28 <peter1138> why don't they just... er... push?
20:29:47 <boekabart> as title reads: stupid cop
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20:33:57 <Ailure> people don't think propely when paniced
20:34:19 <ln-> peter1138: for the same reason americans hardly ever walk?
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20:38:18 <Ailure> panic is pretty much a state where the brain shuts down and all that it cares about is 'getting away'
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20:38:54 <Ailure> which would work if it was a natural disaster or a dangerous animal, but not as well with thigns that requires thinking :p
20:48:38 <MiO> performance vs readable code that is the question
20:50:25 <Ailure> comments dosen't cause bad perfomance
20:52:12 <MiO> but virtual function calls do and i can't find any on ottd :(
20:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd has lots of function pointers
20:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a reason why NPF is slow
20:54:46 <MiO> function pointers are not very read freandly
20:56:37 <MiO> i'm reading the yapf code for some hours now, and can't find a place to block a path for PBS
20:57:17 <Rubidium> YAPF is pathfinding, it doesn't control the vehicles
20:58:00 <Rubidium> you can only give penalties in YAPF, not block a train from moving
20:58:33 <Rubidium> when you want to block/stop a train, you need to be in train_cmd.cpp
20:59:01 <MiO> i try to block a path for the pathfinding
20:59:28 <MiO> so he will not use blockes tracks for other trains
21:00:53 <MiO> can i give him an "infinite" penalties for the tile ?
21:01:18 <Rubidium> almost, but that doesn't prevent YAPF from choosing that path when it is the *only* path
21:02:35 <Rubidium> red signals do also not prevent YAPF from choosing that path as "best" path
21:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> YAPF should not need much modifying for PBS, the actual path reserving must be done outside YAPF
21:03:11 <Rubidium> the train controller, which is in train_cmd.cpp, does the actually stopping of trains for red signals
21:03:47 <peter1138> that's actually good
21:03:57 <peter1138> you need a penalty, but not too high
21:03:58 <Progman> zoomed completely out looks weird if you stare to much on the seas ;)
21:04:17 <peter1138> otherwise it might find another route that is stupidly long, just because a little bit is currently reserved
21:04:18 <MiO> so why nobody adds the pbs ?
21:04:31 <peter1138> nobody's bothered working on it
21:04:42 <peter1138> i did a tiny little bit that doesn't do much at the moment
21:04:48 <peter1138> it likes crashing though :D
21:06:03 <MiO> it can help me to understand how ottd works
21:17:12 <MiO> peter1138: can i please take a look at your tiny pbs ?
21:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> temperature seems to be down to like 30°C now :p
21:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <ln-> how warm is it outdoors? <- the day wasn't exactly cold either
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21:24:12 <Bjarni> sorry that I forgot the name of it :(
21:27:24 <Bjarni> no comments... does that mean that everybody left? :(
21:31:12 <Bjarni> yes by itself is not a very good answer since I asked two questions :p
21:31:32 <Sacro> Bjarni: depends if you stated AND or OR
21:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which is exactly the reason why i answered like that :p
21:31:53 <Bjarni> well, you did add a point to your answer
21:31:58 <Bjarni> so it's not yes by itself
21:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i have some cleaning up to do after being away...
21:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro quoting uncyclopedia again?
21:34:14 <Bjarni> he just said something so perverted that I don't even want to translate it
21:34:21 <Sacro> :( can't find a translator
21:34:59 <Bjarni> well, I'm not going to translate for you this time
21:35:45 <ln-> lakriss must have some perverted double meaning...
21:35:53 <Bjarni> he asked for candy, but I think there is a double meaning to it
21:37:55 <Thomas[NL]> Can I taste some of your licorices?
21:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not hard to understand :(
21:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i always hit the wrong bracket
21:40:48 <Bjarni> I think the double meaning is something uneatable
21:41:35 <Bjarni> at least he finally figured out that I'm not Dutch
21:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> or he thinks that is dutch :p
21:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's Sacro, you never know :p
21:43:59 <Bjarni> The bridge with a funny name (Øresundsbroen) connects Denmark with Sweden, allowing Swedes to come and buy cheap alcoholic beverages in Denmark. If you are lucky, you might see Carl XVI Gustaf, the King of Sweden, buying loads of beer for the weekend. <-- LOL
21:44:11 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: good point
21:45:57 <Rubidium> @kick Sacro go learn some real Dutch...
21:45:58 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (go learn some real Dutch...)
21:46:18 * Bjarni kicks Sacro in his groin region as requested
21:46:23 *** mikk36|away is now known as mikk36
21:46:38 <DorpsGek> Patrick: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (line 1)
21:46:48 <Patrick> what does it use on the backend for calculations?
21:46:52 <Sacro> Rubidium: Ik weet waar je huis woont
21:47:06 <DorpsGek> Patrick: Error: 'help' is not a defined function.
21:47:23 <_42_> Sacro: (standard_in) 2: parse error;
21:47:56 <Patrick> Sacro: I know what three factorial is,I'm wondering what is used on the backend :)
21:48:07 <Patrick> of either or both bots
21:48:12 <Sacro> i dunno what @calc uses
21:48:44 <Rubidium> Sacro: ga met een poes spelen
21:48:57 <Patrick> whoever created DorpsGek
21:49:35 <glx> DorpsGek is supybot (python)
21:50:14 <Bjarni> damn. Sacro stopped saying crazy stuff
21:50:20 <Bjarni> now I lack a reason to kick him
21:50:50 <Bjarni> @ kick Sacro no reason
21:52:39 <Sacro> Weet je wat ik wil, een opblaaskrokodil... :'(
21:52:57 <ln-> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
21:53:19 <Sacro> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x+1); } f(3)
21:53:52 <ln-> i think you just killed it
21:53:59 <Sacro> nah, it's just thinking...
21:56:01 <mikk36> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
21:56:06 <mikk36> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x1); } f(3)
21:56:09 <mikk36> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x+1); } f(3)
21:56:13 <mikk36> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(3)
21:56:19 <ln-> !calc define f(x) { if(x==0) return 1; return x*f(x-1); } f(2^10)
21:56:20 <_42_> ln-: 541852879605885728307692194468385473800155396353801344448287027068321061207337660373314098413621458671907918845708980753931994165770187368260454133333721939108367528012764993769768292516937891165755680659663747947314518404886677672556125188694335251213677274521963430770133713205796248433128870088436171654690237518390452944732277808402932158722061853806162806063925435310822186848239287130261690914211362251144684713888587881629252104046295315949943900357882
21:56:27 <mikk36> it just couldn't get an answer so it silenced
21:56:47 <ln-> _42_: that's not the whole answer
21:56:48 <MiO> 4294967296 turns to x == 0 and ca 12 cycles per calc
21:57:22 <Bjarni> Sacro: now that you want to speak many langauges, then try to say something like you yarinige your sekkusufurendo
21:57:41 <ln-> MiO: bc uses arbitrary precision integers, and it won't overflow.
21:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> IRC messages have a maximum length
21:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so it just gets truncated
21:57:58 <Patrick> it will have hit the 512 limit
21:58:27 <mikk36> (00:53:06) (_42_) ln-: 541852879605885728307692194468385473800155396353801344448287027068321061207337660373314098413621458671907918845708980753931994165770187368260454133333721939108367528012764993769768292516937891165755680659663747947314518404886677672556125188694335251213677274521963430770133713205796248433128870088436171654690237518390452944732277808402932158722061853806162806063925435310822186848239287130261690914211362251144684713888587881
21:58:32 <mikk36> that wasn't the limit yet
21:58:50 <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: now that you want to speak many langauges, then try to say something like you yarinige your sekkusufurendo
21:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> mikk36: what? it ended with 7882 here
21:59:09 <glx> mikk36: the bot has an internal limit (to not flood)
21:59:27 <Bjarni> Sacro: because you like to say stuff that you are completely clueless on what they mean :p
21:59:39 <ln-> maybe the bot could end its line with "..." when it truncates it
21:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> [...]587881629252104046295315949943900357882
22:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> your message was also truncated
22:00:05 <Bjarni> ln-: then it would need some sort of overflow detection
22:00:14 <Bjarni> it's a fairly simple bot
22:00:30 <Sacro> Bjarni: je heb een bos hout voor de deur
22:01:05 <Bjarni> I'm not sure if it could be made aware of the length of it's output without changing a great deal in it
22:01:08 <MiO> looks like c code that will be compiled and run
22:01:38 <Bjarni> Sacro: see. You want to say stuff that you don't know what mean
22:01:49 <Bjarni> you act like a politician >_<
22:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i just came from luxemburg, i have enough of people speaking languages i barely understand
22:04:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9893 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_gui.cpp road_map.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9892): various small bugs that only act up when using something different than plain roads.
22:04:40 <Bjarni> the local population, I guess
22:04:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a long story :)
22:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't feel like telling
22:05:46 <MiO> pbs is like pre signals but the signal must change his state based on the path of the passing train. if i'm right the signals don't have an callback before an train passes
22:07:13 <Bjarni> they added that drawing on the satelite that they sent out of the solar system
22:07:27 <Bjarni> so if some aliens eventually finds it, they can see what we looked like
22:07:41 <Bjarni> odds are that we will be long gone before anybody ever finds it
22:08:17 <ln-> and when that happens, they'll be offended by the full frontal nudity
22:08:48 <Bjarni> I saw one of the people behind it on TV. After the point of no return, he started thinking about how it's possible that alien cultures would attack all other cultures and he isn't sure that it was such a good idea after all
22:08:54 <Bjarni> but we can do nothing about it :p
22:09:17 <Sacro> it might not meet anything
22:09:19 <Bjarni> <ln-> and when that happens, they'll be offended by the full frontal nudity <--- nahh. They will just call us primitive animals
22:09:21 <Sacro> it may just crash into a planet
22:09:25 <Sacro> or fall into a black hole
22:09:49 <Bjarni> odds are that it will be destroyed before leaving the solar system
22:10:16 <ln-> the voyager probe will be found in Star Trek I
22:10:29 <Bjarni> or at least when it reaches the edge of it (solar radiation vs the cosmic radiation line)
22:10:35 <Sacro> ooh, tis almost 50 years till first contact
22:11:08 <Bjarni> Sacro: well, you will not see it since it happens in Montana and it will be after WWIII
22:11:32 <Sacro> Bjarni: i plan on leaving this crappy country
22:11:49 <Bjarni> but I don't think it would be logical to assume that the Star Trek writers can tell when vulcans arrive on earth
22:12:22 <Sacro> perhaps the vulcans have seen star trek and think its a prophecy
22:13:00 <Bjarni> logically one would assume that TV series writers would be no better at telling the future than any other human being
22:13:17 <Sacro> and they are logical...
22:13:49 <Bjarni> so they show up here to make friends with us after they notice that we insult them
22:14:48 <Bjarni> better yet: we sneak attack them (in the Enterprise episode... something where everybody backstabs everybody)
22:18:09 <Bjarni> why do people close their homepages once they make the URL public?
22:18:31 <Bjarni> I just tried to follow a link from a readme that says copyright 1999 and the page is not there :(
22:43:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9894 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9892): catenary was drawn on road bridges ;)
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