IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-21
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02:04:40 <Pontiac> Is there somewhere in the wiki what the acronyms are, like YAPF?
02:05:47 <Pontiac> Theres also mention of using apt-get for Debian. Whats the command, specifically? I can't find anything with TTD or Transport
02:08:16 <Pontiac> What repositories do I have to add?
02:11:50 <Touqen> Pontiac: well yapf is yet another path finder
02:12:19 <Pontiac> heh.. I shoulda guessed that one.
02:13:06 <Touqen> I think you need to add/enable unstable
02:13:29 <Touqen> or check the debian package search too
02:15:51 <Touqen> And generally if you search for something, it'll probably turn up it's definition.
02:17:00 <Pontiac> Every time I install KUbuntu, I turn on all the repositories. But the search for even tycoon in the Adept manager turns nothing up.
02:17:51 <Pontiac> No mention of what to add/change either.
02:18:05 <Touqen> There must be something you miss then. I'm on ubuntu and apt-cache search turns up openttd for me
02:18:57 <Pontiac> Oh really? Mind sending me your sources.list file?
02:19:48 <Touqen> what version are you on? (I'm still on breezy)
02:23:55 <Pontiac> Same as mine (Other than edgy/breezy calls)
02:30:18 <Pontiac> Interesting. i found on the wiki the aptitude command to get the apps needed to compile, but still nothing specific to apt-get install openttd
02:32:28 <Touqen> What do you mean? What other information do you need for "apt-get install openttd"
02:32:36 <Touqen> For whatever reason it wasn't added to the edgy repository.
02:33:26 <Pontiac> Thats exactly what I mean. When I run apt-get install openttd I'm told it can't find the app.
02:33:46 <Pontiac> But I've found instructions on how to get around that. Just a bunch more work and manual compiling.
02:33:54 <Touqen> Okay so what do you want he wiki to tell you?
02:34:09 <Touqen> Someone has to actually add it to the repository for it to be there. The maintainer of the package didn't.
02:35:14 <Pontiac> I realize someone has to add it. ;) I just happen to be using the wrong distro to get what I want done. This constantly happens with me and Linux OS's. ;)
02:35:39 <Touqen> You could just download the package yourself, and ask dpkg to resolve the dependencies for you.
02:36:07 <Touqen> There shouldn't be much of a problem.
02:36:47 <Pontiac> I'm skeered of linux. {chuckle} Too many panics in my past. But anyways... Next step would probably be RTFM?
02:38:16 <Pontiac> I'll fight with that later. Got some time tomorrow. Caffination wearing off, and GF just made a proposal. {chuckle} L8r gents
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04:56:10 <Rubidium> yes, but 80-90% is still sleeping or preparing to go to work I guess
04:57:21 <staniel> sleep is for the weak
04:58:36 <Jerub> or for the week, it depends if you're unemployed.
04:58:57 <staniel> lol, funny you should say that since im currently unemployer
05:00:51 <staniel> Though Im avoiding sleep for a totally different reason
05:42:29 <mikk36> Rubidium, or already at work :)
05:43:36 <mikk36> k, i guess i'm in the 10-20% :)
05:43:54 <mikk36> though i just arrived a minute before u said that
05:44:57 <Jerub> (I've been at work for 6 hours or something now)
05:45:20 <mikk36> you live in australia too
05:45:30 <Jerub> I played openttd for the first time last night. It's a significant improvement over ttd.
05:46:12 <Jerub> I can't wait for the busstop patch to get into the stable build :)
05:47:34 <staniel> heh, the first night I had it (last week) I was up till 5 in the moring
05:47:43 <Jerub> I was playing last night and I got up to 1964 and had 19 million pounds, so I was thinking I was the best ttd player in the world.
05:47:48 <staniel> I found the game by accident and was like, shit, I gotta play taht
05:48:00 <Jerub> then I saw some of the tutorials on advanced signal placement and felt like a rank amateur.
05:48:33 <staniel> Im so terrible for rail line.... I run a line for each train pretty much
05:49:01 <Jerub> it's worth it to learn how to do interesting rail lines.
05:49:13 <staniel> though I had quite the circuit of trains.. about 10 on this one loop, I was impressed till I upgraded the lines
05:49:28 <Jerub> so you can run 4 coal trains on 2 tracks, that kind of thing.
05:50:58 <mikk36> you don't wanna know what guys do in the coop games :P
05:51:38 <Jerub> mikk36: I do wanna know, I'm interested.
05:51:52 <Jerub> mikk36: but as I said, I felt like a rank amateur after seeing some screenshots.
05:52:40 <staniel> openttd just crashed on me
05:52:55 <Jerub> This is the first time I've ever made money using busses too.
05:52:57 <staniel> time to run debug mode and have it run...
05:53:48 <staniel> oh my god, it actually crashed in debug
05:54:42 <staniel> openttd: tile.h:36: TileHeight: Assertion `tile < MapSize()' failed.
06:11:05 <Ailure> how long is a gameyear in seconds now
06:12:56 <Smoky555> did somebody know, is it somewhere a patch to allowing more then 2 airports in 1 town?
06:13:26 <Smoky555> OR what i must to change in the source to make this?
06:19:47 <Jerub> mikk36: Back in my ttd days I had a train network that let me ship oil from one side of the map to the other, with passenger and goods trains running on the same lines.
06:20:22 <Jerub> mikk36: I thought that was totally shithot :(
06:21:08 <Ailure> My TTO networks were lots worse :p
06:21:24 <Ailure> but then since theres only two-way signals it's hard to make advanced networks
06:21:48 <Jerub> but none of the real advanced ones.
06:22:29 <Ailure> I can confirm as I played around with it
06:22:55 <Ailure> you are thinking of plain TTD now
06:23:01 <Ailure> which had one-way signals but no pre-signals
06:23:09 <Jerub> because I was saying D for Deluxe.
06:23:38 <Ailure> I have two monitors :)
06:23:50 <staniel> how quick do you guys pay off your initial loan?
06:23:51 <Ailure> the second one is a bit more far away and is little fuzzy, so some details isn't too clear
06:25:05 <staniel> yeah, thats about the same... I normally get a few trains in there that are gauranteed to make money, and coast a little
06:25:06 <Jerub> My next game I will have to up the skill level of the competitors a fair way.
06:25:08 <Ailure> well I tend to constantly build with the money I have
06:25:19 <Jerub> they're all hideously in debt and I'm working on breaking 20 million
06:25:21 <Ailure> until I earn so much that the loan can be paid back with no problems
06:25:29 <Ailure> that's pretty much fastest way of repaying loan too
06:25:36 <Ailure> since the intrest is so low
06:26:00 <Jerub> yeah, I always end up with a maxloan until I can't spend the money I have.
06:26:08 <staniel> ahh, yeah, if a good subsidy comes up I take the loan back out lol
06:26:57 <Jerub> I put a pair of docks on a lake for shits and giggles, between two small towns.
06:27:25 <Jerub> and I put a goods trucking service into one of those towns very early on, not thinking about it much.
06:27:32 <Ailure> most subsidies aren't that good D:
06:27:53 <Ailure> usually becuse they consist of missions where you connect two points that is sometimes in the same screen
06:28:00 <Jerub> now the one I was trucking goods into ended up being the biggest town, and I had 10 ferries going between the two before the hovercraft was released.
06:28:33 <Jerub> Ailure: yeah, it'd be good if the subsidy thing was more along the lines of:
06:28:52 <Jerub> "Ship coal to power station X otherwise it will close down"
06:29:08 <staniel> well it can help though
06:29:09 <Ailure> I would prefer if it didn't have limited range
06:29:17 <Jerub> playing on a 512x512 map I saw so many industries go out of business because of no supply.
06:29:18 <Ailure> that it randomly takes two stations on the whole map
06:29:29 <Ailure> and that it should give more time for really long distances of course
06:29:31 <Jerub> Ailure: a larger range perhaps.
06:29:34 <Jerub> unlimited is a bit much.
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06:30:33 <Ailure> but it wouldn't be too much for a 256x256 map
06:30:40 <Jerub> :( I didn't know about the rule "Every month you don't ship anything into a town"
06:30:47 <Ailure> might be too much for a 2048x2048 one
06:30:59 <Jerub> No wonder some towns hated me when I had a station that wasn't connected up yet.
06:31:14 <Ailure> I made lines going over 1000 tiles
06:31:24 <Jerub> Ailure: how many years for a return trip?
06:31:27 <Ailure> It's fun when trains reports losses as they take more than one year to make profit within one run
06:32:00 <Ailure> for really huge networks, average in last few years is probably more intresting than last year
06:32:09 <Ailure> unless of courtse the time is multiplied
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06:32:37 <Jerub> I had a situation where my big station had a gridlock outside it, and I wasn't aware.
06:32:45 <Jerub> on average, the trains were doing alright.
06:32:56 <Jerub> but for a year they were sitting at signals.
06:33:12 <Jerub> I <3 that message in those situations
06:39:20 <staniel> I found that alot of the passenger ones come up again and again
06:40:20 <Jerub> I was awarded subsidies for passenger transport I was already doing.
06:40:36 <staniel> it was great cause you got money for nothing
06:40:43 <Jerub> SpComb: it would be, if it weren't a bus line.
06:40:54 <SpComb> now you just need to ensure that you transport all available passangers
06:41:12 <staniel> dodododod.... subsidy offered.... (3 seconds pass) dodododod.... subsidy awarded
06:41:17 <Jerub> (iirc, I hit clone vehicle 10 times then just to be sure)
06:41:24 <SpComb> the subsidy isn't on the vehicles or anything, I think it's just on the source town and destination town
06:43:43 <staniel> I hate the whole within 9 blocks of the city center
06:44:44 <staniel> mainly if I have other stations withing the city
06:45:34 <Jerub> staniel: oh, is that why I don't get subsidies when I use air transport sometimes?
06:45:48 <Jerub> hey, are helicopters a good investment?
06:46:05 <Jerub> I've yet to have a look to see if they're worth it, I just use them sometimes.
06:51:30 <staniel> i've had some helicopters that have made me money
06:53:00 <Jerub> Oh, dang, that reminds me, I have the darwin 300 prototyoe and I forgot to build it.
06:53:10 * Jerub will have to remember to do that when he gets home.
06:53:39 <Jerub> Whats the earliest you can start playing? I wound the clock back to 1900 and there were no vehicles you could buy.
06:53:45 <staniel> I really should turned on the new ai
06:53:58 <staniel> holy shit, he actually got it
06:54:21 <staniel> hes train line to connect up
06:54:57 <Jerub> I hate seeing them do stuff like do bridges over their own train lines :(
06:55:03 <Jerub> It makes me want to buy them out and fix it.
06:55:34 <staniel> my ultimate pet peeve is the road bridge over a road
06:55:46 <Jerub> There's one place where the AI is delivering wood to a place I'm shipping (by cargo boat) goods from.
06:55:58 <Jerub> and I feel like buying him out so I can improve his trains.
06:56:29 <Jerub> hey, how do I delete signals form a train line?
06:56:40 <Jerub> control-click doesn't remove, it does the advanced signals.
06:56:59 <staniel> in the train line there, click the signal, then click the bulldozer
06:57:22 <staniel> the click on the square on the line and it'll remove it
06:57:36 <Jerub> I would always control-click to delete things.
07:02:22 <Smoky555> more then 2 airports in 1 town, did somebody knows something about this?
07:02:59 <staniel> Smoky555: yeah, you've probably pissed off the local authority
07:03:24 <peter1138> no, it's just not allowed
07:03:55 <staniel> oh I guess a heliport and an airport are considered 2 different things?
07:04:35 <peter1138> both considered airports
07:05:10 <staniel> ohh maybe I bought a competitor out and thats how I got 2...
07:05:33 <peter1138> that's fine. you can't have _more_ than 2
07:06:22 <peter1138> now that just sounds like a 5 year old
07:06:37 <peter1138> station_cmd.cpp:1546, if you fancy changing it
07:06:46 <peter1138> (in trunk, not 0.5.x)
07:07:38 <Smoky555> 1 privat airport (near the headquarters), 2 (South and North) Federal airports, 1 National airports :)
07:11:03 <staniel> was the detailed performance rating a new thing with openttd?
07:20:14 <Smoky555> peter1138 : thanks, it's work :)
07:20:29 <peter1138> no, "it works", not "it's work"
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09:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Jerub> Whats the earliest you can start playing? I wound the clock back to 1900 and there were no vehicles you could buy. <- some newgrf vehicle sets have trains from 1920, the default set starts like 1935, but i don't remember exactly
09:06:14 <peter1138> some sets have vehicles before 1920 now
09:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not seen any of those yet :)
09:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i'd really like to see you playing 2500 years, until trains get available :)
09:09:27 <boekabart> noone ever made an EU or US 'early age' trainset?
09:09:44 <boekabart> starting in 1829 or so?
09:09:58 <boekabart> - and carriages instead of trucks/busses -
09:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> boekabart: dates before 1920 don't exist that long
09:10:15 <boekabart> would be interesting, in those days ships were THE de-facto standard for transporting goods.
09:10:26 <peter1138> FUCKING SHITTY OUTLOOK
09:10:39 <hylje> Eddi|zuHause3: why not, it would make a extensible road network and big towns for trains to work around
09:16:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> canals were built mostly from the 17th century
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11:47:51 <maddy> Brianetta, is your gameserver still in debugmode?
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12:00:17 * peter1138 ponders disabling the new zoom levels
12:08:17 <boekabart> peter1138: why disable the new zoom levels?
12:08:56 <Ailure> Maybe he don't like blown up pixels?
12:09:17 <boekabart> new zoom levels are only zoom-out, right?
12:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, what is the magic svn incantation for getting all log entries of the last 4 days?
12:13:42 <peter1138> boekabart: because it's harder to get to the 4X out now
12:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> it says: -r "{" DATE "}", but it does not tell me what format the date should be
12:15:10 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: svn log -r {2007-05-20}
12:15:34 <boekabart> that's not 4 days though :)
12:16:11 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: Sorry, it's: svn log -r {2007-05-20}:HEAD
12:17:07 <hylje> a loco-and-2-pax-wagons train just ran by
12:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> now it actually works :)
12:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i tried -r {2007-05-17}, but i got nothing in return
12:17:49 <Thomas[NL]> thats only one day
12:17:52 <boekabart> hylje: Is it 'lol wut' because there is no railway outside?
12:18:56 <Thomas[NL]> svn log -r{2007-05-17}:HEAD
12:19:00 <hylje> nah because it is such a silly train format
12:20:00 <boekabart> a tram or bus would be more efficient, true
12:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: yes, i already said that worked, but if i said -r {2007-05-17} i'd expect it to return all commits on that date, but all i got was a line "--------"
12:20:58 <hylje> trains drop gprs connection like crazy
12:21:25 <hylje> i recall an intercity train not letting the connection establish at all
12:21:43 <hylje> high speeds not all good it seems
12:23:00 <ln-> i've used gprs all the way from north of parkano to turku on the train
12:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, in germany, long distance trains have special "cell phone" wagons
12:24:27 <boekabart> with an in-car antenna??
12:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know what is special about them, i just know they exist
12:56:34 <hylje> i didnt know these vehicles ran this line
12:56:45 <boekabart> no-one knows how they got that font in there?
12:59:02 <Thomas[NL]> Born Acorn uploaded it
13:01:02 <Thomas[NL]> looks like Arial to me
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13:06:07 <peter1138> boekabart: probably arial
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13:10:27 <boekabart> Yea, it's arial. Thanks
13:18:19 <peter1138> what's the status on your two projects?
13:20:33 <boekabart> deepwater+river: I got a bugreport, have to check it out. I'd actually like to propose it te be included without the river thing. Simple and safe.
13:20:55 <boekabart> so just the sealevel
13:21:19 <boekabart> I plan to strip the rivers out and clean it up these days
13:21:30 <boekabart> and then give it to you ;)
13:22:13 <hylje> at least we got sumthin
13:22:45 <boekabart> just the higher sealevel is pretty clean and safe, imho, and adds to the possibilities of the game, without breaking any existing concept.
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13:24:22 <peter1138> boekabart: i'm happy for rivers to be separate, especially if it involves all that flow stuff...
13:24:44 <hylje> finite amount of water is necessary for rivers?
13:24:50 <boekabart> yeah, the way it's done there is too unsafe and too unrealistic to be included, i think
13:24:58 <boekabart> hylje: I think so, yes
13:25:13 <hylje> and to make sure rivers dont actually run out, springs
13:25:20 <boekabart> but for that one to work, I need to do a little more work.
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13:38:31 <boekabart> peter1138: are there any plans for, let's call it 'newvehicles' -> adding instead of replacing vehicles?
13:39:35 <peter1138> i had a patch, in fact
13:39:49 <peter1138> though it's pre-src/ and pre-c++
13:40:03 <peter1138> i have been doing little bits of work that go towards it though
13:40:07 <boekabart> would it treat existing newgrfs like 'additions' instead of 'replacements?
13:40:30 <peter1138> probably with some option to remove the default set
13:40:32 <hylje> so we could have several vehicle newgrf sets active?
13:40:43 <hylje> newgrf-ize the default se
13:41:27 <boekabart> do the same plans exist for bridges?
13:41:48 <peter1138> a different plan, ackcherly
13:41:58 <boekabart> of course, but similar goal?
13:42:32 <boekabart> (I just started using newgrfs these days, that's why I come up with the Q now)
13:42:43 <boekabart> newhouses pretty much does just this for houses, right?
13:43:00 <peter1138> and newstations did it from the outset too
13:43:09 <peter1138> as they don't exist in ttd
13:43:53 <boekabart> actually, that was what I thought when I saw that you can just add as many station newggrfs as you like, but with vehicles you get conflicts
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13:45:07 <glx> that's by design in newgrf specs
13:45:47 <boekabart> -> which were probably designed after ttdpatch limitations?
13:46:08 <hylje> lets just give each grf its own namespace
13:46:15 <hylje> so they can conflict with just itself
13:46:33 <boekabart> .. and I saw some commits this weekend, by Rubidium, will this actually allow selecting roadsets per tile?
13:47:08 <peter1138> tram tracks are a road type ;/
13:49:14 <boekabart> I see. But that would mean that some vehicles can drive on more than 1 road type? (cars can drive on road_with_tram type, for example). This is unlike the railtype system, right
13:49:38 <hylje> boekabart: diesel and steam trains can drive on elrail and non-elrail
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13:53:51 <boekabart> hylje: a good point you make there :)
13:54:35 <hylje> and really, if you somehow get a train on incompatible track
13:54:40 <hylje> it will run there just fine
13:54:51 <boekabart> try that in real life :)
13:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> there already exists a "compatible rail" concept, which is supposed to be a half-ordering over railtypes (currently "elrail < conventional" is the only non-trivial relation, but that should be extended by things like 'high speed rail'), it should be relatively easy to transfer that concept to roads
13:58:32 <boekabart> with no level crossings!
13:58:50 <boekabart> and no 45/90 deg corners!
13:59:13 <boekabart> Brianetta is German??
13:59:16 <hylje> i was thinking of just having an arbitrary amount of rail classes, with diminishing returns
13:59:44 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: don't tell me you aren't either....
13:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> but afaik he took some german classes a while ago :)
13:59:51 <hylje> so you could upgrade a piece of rail as much as you like, but the benefit diminishes and costs go up
14:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, different rails distinguished by build costs, upkeep costs, decay rates and maximum speed (including curve radius)
14:04:39 <hylje> maybe even have % speed modifier on top of that
14:05:01 <hylje> to make crazy rich players spend all their monies on perpertually upgrading their network
14:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> boekabart: i am german :)
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14:07:24 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: well I won't hold you responsible for the 'stau' I was in for hours yesterday on your country's fine freeway A3
14:07:53 <hylje> enjoy your nature expedition on a highway
14:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i was on the A3 yesterday...
14:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was no "Stau" when i was there :)
14:09:23 <boekabart> going North or South?
14:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, south i believe
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14:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> we came from the A1, made a stop in Koblenz, went on "conventional" roads to Montabaur, and left the A3 in Limburg
14:12:05 <boekabart> that is the good piece
14:12:15 <boekabart> nurnberg/fra was the problem
14:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> this is funny, within one day, we went on all odd-numbered one-digit routes :)
14:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> A1, A3, A5, A7, A9
14:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> (in that order)
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14:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> all jams we saw were in the opposite direction
14:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> the only slow section was the piece of A7 between "Hattenbacher Dreieck" (A5-A7) and "Kirchheimer Dreieck" (A7-A4), which is only like 4km
14:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> for the fact that we effectively went from west to east, we took an awful lot of odd numbered routes :p
14:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> (a route gets an odd number, if it goes (mostly) north-south, and an even number if it goes (mostly) east-west
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14:48:51 <peterbrett> Eddi|zuHause3: That's so... European. ;)
14:49:46 <boekabart> peterbrett: did you ever look at a US freeway map?
14:50:20 <peterbrett> boekabart: Fortunately not :D
14:50:48 <peterbrett> I think the system of numbering roads with darts and a blindfold works quite well, thank you very much :D
14:50:59 <boekabart> north/south: odd, east-west, even.
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14:51:53 <boekabart> and the numbering starts in the south with 10, and in the west with 5
14:52:28 <independence> is it bad to transport to much from an industry?
14:52:54 <independence> I read something like that in the forums, that the industry will produce less if you trasport 99% or something like that
14:53:45 <boekabart> 99%? I have never been able to transport more than 88% i think..
14:57:26 <arex\> When transporting passengers from city to city by train, what's best; Full load/Unload or just Goto?
14:57:52 <peter1138> passengers don't like waiting around, or somesuch
14:58:20 <arex\> It's harder to know when you have enough trains when using goto :D
14:59:45 <independence> Thomas[NL]: ya, but I'm playing r9879 from svn, and I think someone said that they changed it recently?
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15:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> lots of things change, depends what exactly you mean
15:17:34 <peter1138> regarding the amount you pickup, nothing has changed for quite some time
15:24:32 <boekabart> where did this suddenly come from? ini: error in array 'data\newgrf\dbsetxlw.grf'
15:25:03 <peter1138> your config is stuffed?
15:41:27 <boekabart> peter1138: stuffed? it's the only newgrf in there
15:41:59 <peter1138> what is the line in the config?
15:42:02 <kaan> i have a suggestion for you guys
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15:42:13 <boekabart> what so what did you mean by stuffed
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15:42:31 <kornerr> where can i get ttd data files?
15:42:42 <peter1138> kornerr: from... your ttd cd?
15:42:55 <kaan> oh, now i cant find it, never mind then
15:43:56 <kaan> YEAR_ENGINE_AGING_STOPS = 2050,
15:44:23 <kaan> shouldnt that be following the year that the user specifies as the ending year?
15:44:54 <Rubidium> no, because then in 2100 all maglevs have a reliability of 0
15:45:23 <kaan> oh, thats a good reason :)
15:47:58 <boekabart> peter1138: I put a # behind the grf name
15:48:02 <boekabart> thought that was allowed
15:49:46 <peter1138> #foo.grf is fine...
15:53:44 <kornerr> why won't anyone make some free map?:)
15:54:27 <peter1138> you mean free graphics?
15:54:46 <kornerr> that files that are on ttd cd
15:54:58 <peter1138> lots of people make scenarios
15:55:55 <kornerr> so i can play without original ttd?
15:56:29 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
15:57:23 <peter1138> it's the graphics you need
15:57:33 <peter1138> the map... the map is randomly generated anyway
15:57:36 <kornerr> so i can't play without original one?
15:57:59 <boekabart> you can buy it on the net, the original
15:58:15 <kornerr> i wish i had money, lol
15:58:15 <boekabart> sometimes you can even buy a download version for veeeeeeery little money.
15:58:49 <boekabart> oh come on get a hint. i'm not saying more
15:59:15 <kornerr> is there any other similar free game?
15:59:35 <peter1138> but, oh wait, that needs ttd, heh
15:59:45 <peter1138> simutrans? if you have a stupidly fast computer
15:59:57 <peter1138> freetrain if you want something that isn't similar at all
16:00:11 <kornerr> ttd is an economical game, right?:)
16:00:22 <peter1138> lies, it's a train game :)
16:00:45 <boekabart> ... with buses and planes as scenery. eyecandy
16:01:04 <peter1138> be wary of buying from ebay
16:01:24 <Ammler> boekabart: I mean that serious, is it really possible to buy TTD?
16:01:24 <peter1138> as there are a lot of, uh, non-original copies
16:01:52 <boekabart> Ammler: no, i meant illegal download. it is very very hard to find original copies nowadays
16:01:53 <kornerr> is there an on-line something like ttd?:)
16:02:13 <boekabart> a lot of people call it abandonware and offer it for download... it just officially isn't
16:02:33 <boekabart> but that word ^^ will help you so much on your google journey
16:02:40 <glx> and we won't provide links here
16:02:57 <kornerr> so the word is abandonware?
16:03:08 <peter1138> is it really that hard to use a search engine?
16:03:22 <kornerr> it's hard to know what to search for
16:03:43 <boekabart> what? there are links on the forum? did not know that
16:03:57 <peter1138> if i was to search a download for something, i'd start with, er, download
16:04:11 <peter1138> heh, that page is, guess what, first hit on google for "download ttd"
16:04:23 <peter1138> maybe that was too imaginative...
16:04:39 <peter1138> "I really would urge people wanting TTD not to download it illegally since that means Chris Sawyer will miss out on the income he might have recieved should"
16:04:42 <kornerr> i don't search for download word, it always redirects to payware or whatever
16:05:33 <boekabart> anyway, problem solved
16:05:55 <kornerr> in case, i came here from ReactOS screen shot page, i didn't know it's ttd i've played a while ago
16:06:13 <Ammler> can't believe that it was easier to find this channel than a download page
16:07:51 <boekabart> have fun playing openttd, then
16:08:19 <kornerr> are patches just files?
16:08:24 <kornerr> i don't need windows, right?
16:08:51 <glx> openttd can run on many platforms
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16:09:16 <Ammler> kornerr: download only the graphics
16:10:13 <Ammler> ttdpatch is only for windows
16:10:30 <glx> Ammler: wrong, there's a dos version
16:11:20 <Ammler> thats my original, (only tt)
16:15:37 <Prof_Frink> glx: And it works under wine
16:18:29 <Sionide> is ttdp still going then?
16:18:39 <Sionide> i never saw why there's a need for both projects..
16:20:30 <peter1138> hence 0.5.2 is the last openttd release
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16:33:42 <skidd13> As far as I remember TTDPatch isn't limited to Windows. It is limited to x86.
16:34:29 <peter1138> there are emulators :D
16:34:57 <Sacro> peter1138: wine is not an emulator
16:35:11 <peter1138> it emulates windows syscalls
16:36:07 <skidd13> I wan't talking about emulators. I ment native. It's written in assembler so it's limited to the architecture (x86). :)
16:36:27 <hylje> peter1138: WINE IMPLEMENTS WIN32 APIS YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD
16:37:00 <peter1138> hmm, tyan s2915a2nrf
16:37:01 <skidd13> But enougth from that Patch stuff.. We are in #openttd. ;)
16:37:32 <hylje> is dat sum opteron socket
16:38:10 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest76
16:39:24 <peter1138> hmm, 14 SATA ports on board
16:40:39 <skidd13> There is an assertion "road_map.h:22 RoadTileType GetRoadTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STREET)' failed.". It happens if I try to remove the roadstop (bot not the road -> shortcut "R")
16:40:45 <peter1138> 2 pci-e x16, 2 pci-e x16 (x8), 2 pci-x, 1 pci
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17:01:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9895 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: assertion when removing roadstop.
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17:59:55 <Wolf01> Ailure: like in 1999 we din't know if we are already in the 21st century or still in the 20th, because of ancient date errors, we don't know if we have already passed 10000 because of the first svn crash, or at least, we have, the first svn had 193 revisions if i'm not wrong :P
18:00:26 <Ailure> But isn't that for a relativly long time ago?
18:01:22 <Ailure> revisions comes more often nowadays, but the revisions themself dosen't change as much stuff :p
18:01:25 <peter1138> Wolf01: for certain values of 193 meaning 975
18:03:42 <peter1138> i am assuming, of course, that the first svn was really the first svn
18:04:10 <ln-> why didn't someone push the revision back to 975 when importing the stuff to the new svn?
18:04:33 <peter1138> because life's too short?
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18:42:05 <guru3> Anyone know why my make of 0.5.1 from source is saying version 0.4.8 in the title window?
18:42:23 <Rubidium> because you didn't make 0.5.1
18:42:33 <Rubidium> *or* you are running the wrong binary
18:42:50 <guru3> yeah... stupid question on my part
18:43:14 <guru3> so you know, don't mind me
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19:24:40 <mikk36> 2 extra zoom-out levels
19:25:10 <Wolf01> and rocks are a little heavy for old pc
19:25:41 <mikk36> i aint got an old pc :)
19:29:08 <Wolf01> have you ever tried with a 2k*2k enough crowded map?
19:30:34 <mikk36> i got a buggie again :)
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19:35:05 <mikk36> argh, now remove signals button greyed itself automatically, but is still enabled
19:35:14 <mikk36> signal button still down
19:39:57 <peter1138> stupid galleries that 'scale down' but make image file sizes way way larger
19:40:40 <peter1138> and, heh, changing wagon speed limits during a game is a bad idea
19:40:53 <peter1138> especially on a server (desyncs ahoy)
19:41:02 <Wolf01> i use directly 1024*768 images for thumbnails on my site :P
19:41:34 <peter1138> 640x487 is hardly a thumbnail
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19:42:02 <peter1138> and at 446KB is 1.5x larger than the original at 298KB...
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19:51:42 <mikk36> peter1138, it's a single player game anyway
19:51:49 <mikk36> and, peter1138, u can click on it to get full pi
19:52:07 <peter1138> yes, after wasting time on the 'small' version :p
19:52:17 <mikk36> yeh, noticed myself too now
19:52:54 <mikk36> but i have those 640x480's for default for huge 1600x1200+ renders
19:53:33 <Wolf01> sacro, i have a new game for you
19:55:49 * Kjetil notices that bjarni is absent
19:57:38 <glx> mikk36: what were you doing when it happened?
19:58:00 <mikk36> i have a savegame right before it
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19:59:24 <mikk36> i was... basicly doing nothing
19:59:44 <mikk36> just watching things happening
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20:26:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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20:28:07 <Bjarni> nice to see you again :)
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20:30:33 <Bjarni> looks like this channel is playing a quiet game right now
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20:49:45 <Bjarni> lol. I just read a nice signature on a (non-OTTD) forum. Translated it says "Don't watch porno while you talk on skype - people can hear it"
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20:56:57 <mikk36> heh, nice error i got from printer :)
20:56:58 <mikk36> Electromagnetic clutch error, please shut down printer and then resume. documents will continue to print after you switch printer on.
20:58:00 <Bjarni> "please shut down printer and then resume" <-- didn't it skip the turn on again part? :D
21:02:56 <Kjetil> So.. any exiting new stuff ?
21:03:28 <jlaw> hi, i am trying to get openttd to run in ubuntu feisty 64 dchrooted 32 bit system. when i start it i hear the first sound but it exits without any error message. is ther a known issue with connecting to xserver or something?
21:05:11 <jlaw> behaves exactly as mentioned, sdl gives an error and the other "seemingly" works (sound is present) there is some positive console output about generating map, but no gui
21:05:17 <mikk36> Bjarni, sry, i didn't remember what exactly was written
21:05:50 <mikk36> but the error itself was fun, some device inside me has given error, please restart me :P
21:10:18 <guru3> How about earning interest on money stored in the bank?
21:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> jlaw: tried "-d 1" or something?
21:11:14 <guru3> jlaw: also tried running xhost local:localhost ?
21:16:04 <jlaw> guru3, other programs like opera work flawless out of th dchrooted system ... but i'll give it a try
21:19:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are win64 builds, so with the correct librarys it should compile and run on 64 bit linux systems
21:23:00 <guru3> I just compiled it on my 64-bit gentoo myself and it's running fine.
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21:24:46 <Sleepie> question to the devs: the new zoom levels are really a great improvement, are there any plans to implement something similar for the minimap?
21:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> minimap zoom is planned
21:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it's ages ago that i have seen any progress on that
21:27:50 <Rubidium> Sleepie: if you can fix the bugs with it...
21:28:06 <Rubidium> there's a patch in the tracker that is still a little buggy
21:28:24 <Sleepie> hmm I think you which one you mean
21:28:58 <Sleepie> the one I mentioned in my suggestions thread some weeks ago
21:30:29 <Sleepie> or did you mean something different?
21:32:25 <Sleepie> hmm, I'm in too much projects atm
21:33:18 <Sleepie> perhaps in a month or two I'll have a little time to look into it
21:34:48 <Sleepie> Are there further infos about it that are not mentioned in the flyspray entry?
21:36:30 <Rubidium> not really, only that it's pre C++, so you need to mess a little with the patch file itself to get it applied
21:38:21 <Sleepie> of course, it's also very outdated (Nov. 06) so I guess many other things have changed since the last update
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21:43:24 <Rubidium> Sleepie: to that particular piece of code probably not more than the merge of C++
21:45:52 <Sleepie> Rubidium: even better then :) but as I said very low priority on my todolist atm ;)
21:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> some minimap stuff was affected by newindustries stuff, but i don't know if that part is already in trunk, or if it will have any influence
21:48:24 <Sleepie> that was probably only more industry icons, because with new industries we will have more of them
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21:49:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: that doesn't affect the scaling of the inner window
21:52:01 <Sleepie> Rubidium: Exist more information sources about the code internals besides the code itself and the wiki?
21:52:32 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
21:52:58 <Rubidium> unless you count some pieces of TTDP that might give you inspiration
21:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> the commit messages might also give you hints
21:53:40 <Sleepie> no prob it was just to be sure I haven't overlooked something ;)
21:54:14 <Rubidium> and the wiki doesn't talk about the 'deep' internals
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21:59:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9897 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: prepare the toolbar for more road types.
21:59:56 <Sleepie> When I'm on it I'll ask my question here if don't understand something in the code ;)
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22:13:16 <Bjarni> when it's working, it steals your time
22:13:34 <Bjarni> now it decided to save me from doing that by crashing firefox when entering
22:14:32 <Bjarni> <ln-> you're using firefox? <-- I was a moment ago
22:16:15 <totalwormage> <ln-> i thought 'that tag i don't know'
22:16:43 <Bjarni> Sacro: every time I tried something else than the command line interface for SVN I ended up with something unexpected
22:17:14 <Bjarni> CLI access to svn is reliable, fast and not a hassle to set up
22:17:21 <ln-> have i said something like that?
22:18:10 <Bjarni> ln-: I'm not talking to you about SVN ;)
22:18:14 <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro:
22:18:25 <Bjarni> even though you are welcome to read it anyway
22:18:40 <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p
22:18:52 <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true
22:19:15 <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked
22:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked <<-- yes please :p
22:19:53 <Rubidium> @kick Eddi|zuHause3 as requested
22:19:54 *** Eddi|zuHause3 was kicked by DorpsGek (as requested)
22:19:56 <Bjarni> @kick Sacro you know why
22:20:01 <Sacro> <Eddi|zuHause3>> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Sacro> <Bjarni> <Bjarni> Sacro: <-- this is getting boring :p <-- true <--- next person to do that will be kicked <<-- yes please :p <-- AND ME :D
22:20:09 *** Eddi|zuHause3 has joined #openttd
22:20:13 <Rubidium> @kick Sacro as requested
22:20:14 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (as requested)
22:20:45 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (manual activation never failed)
22:23:18 <Sacro> i wonder what happens if you unplug it
22:23:36 * Bjarni wonders if Sacro will be more careful not to puncture the ground in the future
22:31:49 <Jerub> how does "Transfer" work in terms of the money you receive?
22:32:20 <Jerub> I set up a train from a coal mine to a dock, and then transported the coal by ship to a power station.
22:32:37 <Jerub> So I seemed to receive the money for transporting the coal to the docks as soon as it got there.
22:33:05 <Rubidium> Jerub: that's only virtual money so the train doesn't get a negative profit
22:33:15 <Bjarni> you get virtual money on the vehicle income
22:33:20 <Rubidium> you are finally paid when the coal has been delivered
22:33:29 <Bjarni> but you will not get real money before the cargo reaches it's real destination
22:33:45 <Jerub> This isn't noted on the wiki.
22:33:56 <Bjarni> maybe it looks better if only one of us tries to explain this at any given time :)
22:34:28 <Bjarni> multiplexing two explanations for the same thing didn't look professional :p
22:34:50 <Jerub> I op over in #python, sometimes things get explained 4 ways.
22:34:58 <Jerub> and sometimes nearly 2 explanations are actually correct.
22:36:21 <Bjarni> you mean you get two wrong explanations as well?
22:36:48 <Bjarni> lol, I just opened X11 by mistake xD
22:38:50 <Rubidium> Bjarni: you were just slow ;)
22:46:03 <Bjarni> Sacro: either it's not funny or I'm missing the point :/
22:47:27 <Rubidium> Bjarni: you totally missed that Sacro thinks *everything* is funny
22:50:43 <Jerub> The thing that I was thinking this morning was "It would be nice if I could tell a train to go upgrade itsel"
22:51:55 <Rubidium> yeah, Bjarni had the same idea ago I believe ;)
22:53:19 <Jerub> going from ferries to hovercraft was annoying.
22:54:17 <Jerub> (I love how boats don't collide with each other, I can move 2000 people a month from a city using hovercraft)
22:55:40 <Bjarni> I think I added this in 0.3.6, but it might be even older than that
22:57:27 <Kjetil> Has depot replace been implemented ?
22:57:44 <Kjetil> *blows the dust of his old patch*
22:57:54 <Bjarni> why was it that I stopped looking at that? :)
22:58:00 <Jerub> I haven't gone to monorail or maglev yet.
22:58:33 <Jerub> Is it hard to move a reasonable sized network to monorail?
22:58:41 <Bjarni> I just wondered. It's called monorail when there is one rail. Is normal railroad tracks called dualrail?
22:59:11 <Jerub> Bjarni: When I talk about tracks I usually talk about its gauge.
22:59:13 <Kjetil> *goes to the corner and starts crying* "It has hardcoded values" :/
22:59:43 <Jerub> I live in Qld, Australia, most of our trains here are narrowgauge.
23:00:08 <Jerub> But you can't talk about monorail in terms of its gauge.
23:00:48 <Jerub> having only 1 rail and all :p
23:01:37 <Bjarni> then what do you call the width of the track...
23:02:29 <Bjarni> <Jerub> Bjarni: When I talk about tracks I usually talk about its gauge. <--- I usually refer to a track as "a track". We only use standard gauge here
23:03:15 <Bjarni> when talking about a different gauge, then the gauge is indicated and it's usually a far away place as well
23:03:49 <Bjarni> <Kjetil> *goes to the corner and starts crying* "It has hardcoded values" :/ <--- that's stupid. Beat up the coder :p
23:04:17 <Kjetil> *finds the cluebat and beats the living crap out of a younger version of himself*
23:05:21 <Jerub> Bjarni: we have too many different gauges :(
23:05:31 <Bjarni> you beat up your younger brother?
23:06:28 <Kjetil> Nah.. I used a timemachine and made sure that I wouldn't write such horrible code
23:06:32 <Bjarni> <Jerub> Bjarni: we have too many different gauges :( <-- do as we did. Use 3 rail systems for a while and only buy/build standard gauge rolling stock. Eventually you will get rid of the narrow gauge shit
23:07:27 <Jerub> Bjarni: hehehe, one problem is that the best run and most timely and profitable train company in australia is narrow gauge.
23:07:39 <Bjarni> every single rail line in the country uses the same gauge and are connected (with the exception of a few closed ones used for vintage operation only)
23:08:12 <Jerub> our interstate and longdistance rail is on standard gauge I think.
23:08:42 <Bjarni> <Jerub> Bjarni: hehehe, one problem is that the best run and most timely and profitable train company in australia is narrow gauge. <-- interesting. Japanese railroads are all narrow gauge and they are never late. The only exception is Shinkansen, which uses standard gauge. However it's never late either
23:09:37 <Jerub> I think it's got more to do with who runs the railways than the railways themselves, but yeah, it's interesting.
23:09:51 <Bjarni> maybe we picked the wrong gauge when selecting the standard one. If we picked another one, the trains would not be late anymore
23:09:59 <Bjarni> somehow I don't think that's the case
23:13:03 <Bjarni> I like how people keep trying to get in when they try to close the doors and the railroad staff pushes people inside
23:13:20 <Bjarni> it's fun as long as you don't have to be on the train :p
23:13:33 <Jerub> I used to live in hong kong.
23:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Bjarni> when talking about a different gauge, then the gauge is indicated and it's usually a far away place as well <- a lot of routes in the mountains of germany are narrow gauge, usually when sharp turns were required
23:13:50 <Jerub> hk trains simply don't have timetables, they just run as many as are needed.
23:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> also, about half the tram systems are narrow gauge
23:16:34 <Jerub> no idea about the gauge there though.
23:16:55 <Bjarni> well, running without a timetable will only work with frequent departures and one way traffic on each track
23:17:24 <Jerub> oh, there might have been a timetable internally, but there wasn't one that a member of the public could read.
23:17:37 <Jerub> you just go to the station and get on the next train.
23:17:47 <Jerub> it's 98% underground too.
23:18:00 <Jerub> so yeah, 1 way traffic on the tracks, that kind of thing.
23:18:06 <Bjarni> In Hong Kong, the Mass Transit Railway uses 1432 mm gauge, 3 mm narrower than standard gauge. <-- taken from wikipedia
23:18:28 <Jerub> 3mm narrower than standard gauge.
23:18:42 <Bjarni> you can easily fit a 1435 mm train there
23:18:44 <Jerub> always gotta be different.
23:19:02 <Jerub> I wonder how hard a 'subway' station would be in openttd.
23:19:15 <glx> the map doesn't support it
23:19:28 <Bjarni> we lack a decent way to allocate memory for it
23:19:57 <Jerub> Just thinking about it. we already have tunnels.
23:20:21 <Jerub> So if you had a 'station' which was aboveground but could only be put there when a tunnel was underneath.
23:20:26 <Jerub> then a train could stop there.
23:20:53 <glx> tunnels are not real in openttd
23:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> you'd need submaps or stacked tiles for that
23:22:35 <Bjarni> I like how trains travelling from Russia to China stops to replace bogies to continue on a new gauge
23:24:48 <Jerub> I just had an entirely evil idea.
23:25:11 <Jerub> What if you made subways invisible flying trains.
23:25:39 <Bjarni> it wouldn't work though
23:26:02 <Bjarni> Japan converted its British-derived buffer and chain couplings to the American Janney coupling over a period of a few days in the early 1920s, after considerable preparation. <--- wow. That was quick
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