IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-11
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00:02:50 <peter1138> ah, ctrl-f9 is quit :/
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00:09:19 <peter1138> what does one do with ttdpttxt.txt?
00:10:23 <Ailure> Loading one of my old savegames from the itme I played TTO made me cringe
00:12:12 <Ailure> I liked some landscaping features much better
00:15:59 <Ailure> rocks and rough land looks more intresting
00:17:35 <Ailure> if you turned of palette cycling and changes climate, the water will have wrong colour :)
00:17:36 <Sleepie> wasn't there a grf to get the TTO graphics back
00:18:10 <Ailure> although they're done 100% same
00:18:46 <Ailure> The mars conversion water looks rather ugly, but I can't blame them as TTO changed some of the palette cycles to give the lava look
00:19:21 <Ailure> If it's supposed to be lava, it could just be iron heavy water :p
00:20:40 <Ailure> It's bascially the water with other colours anyway
00:25:37 <Ailure> and there's a picture of the old farm too
00:25:43 <Ailure> although in mars format
00:26:22 <Ailure> it's smaller in openTTD, but on the other hand spreads out farmland on the map
00:28:51 <Sleepie> hmm sometimes the farmland is a bit too much imho especially if you have several farms lets say every 30 tiles
00:29:09 <Ailure> Personally I don't think it's a problem
00:29:21 <Ailure> Someitmes I belive there's not enough farmland :)
00:29:59 <Sleepie> not really and its much better and realistic like the TTO farms
00:31:55 <Ailure> than the TTO farms you mean?
00:34:43 <Sleepie> oops 2:33 - time for sleep soon
00:35:41 <Ailure> so you live in same timezone as me
00:35:48 <Ailure> I'm too awake to sleep anyway
00:38:54 <glx> many of us are in this TZ :)
00:39:00 <peter1138> DaleStan: ah, that's the problem... mkpttxt.exe doesn't work under dos :(
00:41:16 <Sleepie> yep germany near Dresden to be specific ;)
00:43:24 <Ailure> one of my friends lives at Dresden
00:43:48 <Ailure> though I live in south Sweden mysel
00:45:41 <DaleStan> peter1138: No more recent Microsoftian OSen, I take it? You should be able to build a native mkpttxt. Check out the patch sources, make the appropriate changes near lines 24 and 30 of Makefile.local, and "make host/mkpttxt".
00:46:21 <DaleStan> Or you could try this binary I just built, as soon as I get it shuffled over here.
00:46:43 <peter1138> scrap that, i my wine works now
00:46:48 <peter1138> i didn't used to...
00:52:40 <Sleepie> I'm going off g'night @all
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03:11:20 <mikk36> (06:11:08) (mikk36) morning :)
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06:35:23 <Rubidium> peterbrett: `make VERBOSE:=1`
06:36:18 <peterbrett> Rubidium: (probably the longest delay between Q & A I've seen on IRC
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10:54:24 <TrueBrain> (2 identical lands, 2 players, and they can only build on their piece of land; show who is best :))
10:54:37 <peter1138> is that possible? :p
10:54:48 <TrueBrain> peter1138: this is a played game
10:54:52 <Thomas[NL]> does not look like a mockup :/
10:54:55 <TrueBrain> so yes, it is possible
10:55:06 <peter1138> what about the black line? ;p
10:55:14 <TrueBrain> seperation between the two lands
10:55:28 <peter1138> that is seriously cool
10:55:53 <TrueBrain> I once made it as proof-of-concept that OpenTTD could contain coopetition games
10:56:28 <TrueBrain> if you don't do anything, towns and industry do exactly the same
10:57:41 <TrueBrain> patch is pretty clean and small
10:57:55 <TrueBrain> it just misses to switch between head-to-head and normal game :)
10:58:55 <Thomas[NL]> a Demo Recording patch :o
10:59:22 <TrueBrain> yeah, work of several years by now, by either me or Darkvater (it went from me to him back to me)
11:09:38 <TrueBrain> (load it in OpenTTD, you will like it :))
11:10:06 <boekabart> so it IS for public usage? :)
11:10:13 <TrueBrain> no, it is a test map
11:10:17 <TrueBrain> but even test maps you can test
11:10:22 <TrueBrain> as that is what the name suggest: a test :p
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11:26:34 <peter1138> ahh, the well known sea locked netherlands
11:27:06 <TrueBrain> grrr, stupid xbox... it demands WMP11 in order to stream videos.. the linux alternatives all fail
11:27:34 <TrueBrain> and WMP11 you can't run in wine, as it wants to do validation of your windows install
11:29:24 <TrueBrain> and how would that help?
11:29:24 <boekabart> or H.264, those codes are easier to find :)
11:29:33 <boekabart> it plays those too, right?
11:29:41 <TrueBrain> to play something, you need to get the file there
11:29:52 <TrueBrain> to get a file there, you need to use 'Windows Media Connect' compatible device
11:29:58 <TrueBrain> which only works on Windows
11:30:04 <TrueBrain> and the alternatives for linux so far, fail
11:30:09 <boekabart> or usb mass storage ;|
11:30:20 <TrueBrain> Yeah, okay, point for you, but that sucks even more
11:30:26 <TrueBrain> the encoding really isn't any problem
11:30:29 <TrueBrain> getting the file there is
11:30:49 <boekabart> that 'alternative to MCE' whats it called, it doesn't exist for nix?
11:31:19 <TrueBrain> Windows Media Connect, which you need, uses upnp
11:31:24 <TrueBrain> which is available for linux of course
11:31:32 <TrueBrain> but WMC needs very specific folders and containers
11:31:38 <TrueBrain> which they seem to change at random over time...
11:35:06 <boekabart> I meant TVersity Media Server
11:35:13 <boekabart> isn't that opensource somehow
11:36:45 <boekabart> how closed is WMC... that no-one has been able to figure it out for a year and a half now
11:39:00 <TrueBrain> even Twonky Media blabla seems to fail to give movies....
11:39:06 <TrueBrain> movies are only not detected
11:39:23 <TrueBrain> anyway, OpenTTD.... :)
11:40:25 <boekabart> is there somehow a 'log' of the discussion you mentioned?
11:41:24 <TrueBrain> the summarize is very accurate
11:42:24 <peter1138> yeah, that blog post ;)
11:42:43 <boekabart> well i'm interested in the parts you (who?) did and did not like, actually
11:42:52 <TrueBrain> the blog post tells you :)
11:42:56 <TrueBrain> really, there is nothing more
11:43:32 <boekabart> "First of all, code-wise it uses quick-and-dirty things from time to time, which need to be replaces with more clean code. Also you see a lot of test-alike code, and the replacement of one static-system with an other (zoom-levels for example). On the other hand it has many many things that are very good and should go into trunk anyway."
11:43:42 <boekabart> and the comes 'second'
11:44:25 <boekabart> I agree that the blog post is a good summary... but those details are (though irrelevant to most) relevant to me
11:44:28 <TrueBrain> you mean code-wise? If you read the diff, you will understand :)
11:45:00 <TrueBrain> really, boekabart, you can't get more detail then the blog. There is nothing more.
11:45:03 <boekabart> i know the diff pretty well; I've ported my oooold 32bpp functions (gradient, bitmap overlay) to it
11:45:19 <TrueBrain> then you also know that code-wise it is a bit off from time to time
11:45:31 <TrueBrain> things like: this should really be removed
11:45:44 <TrueBrain> what more is there to say
11:47:49 <boekabart> ok maybe i'm more interested in which 'approaches' you find OK
11:48:08 <Thomas[NL]> what developers also have a blog?
11:48:37 <TrueBrain> Thomas[NL]: I believe I am the only one currently trying to set one up
11:48:45 <TrueBrain> to centralize things a bit more
11:48:56 <TrueBrain> my hope is other developers start posting in that blog too ;)
11:49:51 <TrueBrain> boekabart: as said: the way of tar handling needs some kind of index-system, zooming in should not go that far, and the rest is pretty much okay I believe. Oh, color remap isn't.
11:50:38 <boekabart> that was the info I was looking for! thanks.
11:50:48 <TrueBrain> That very much is in the blog...
11:52:10 <Thomas[NL]> where did you find those Japanese images?
11:54:04 <peter1138> (and there is athanasios complaining the graphics look shit and are too small, lol)
11:55:52 <Thomas[NL]> looks more like pixelart not a game
11:56:24 <peter1138> basically the argument we've got is not whether these are better or worse, just that you don't need very very large tile sizes to have lots of detail
11:56:28 <boekabart> i like those ground tiles :)
11:57:01 <peter1138> i love the airport on that page :)
11:57:24 <Thomas[NL]> the graphs are way to clean
11:57:32 <peter1138> it's just a different style
11:58:21 <boekabart> ok that is one freakislhy big image
11:58:33 <boekabart> they should use google maps for it :)
11:59:31 <boekabart> i love the idea of 45 degrees roads, how come no-one ever thought of that for openttd ... :S
12:00:54 <boekabart> found the airport. bottom left
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12:01:33 <boekabart> well that game (or mockup) has more realistic scaling it seems
12:03:04 <boekabart> TrueBrain: the color remap was actually the thing I wondered the most about
12:03:08 <Thomas[NL]> Freetrain looks better
12:04:00 <TrueBrain> now it is time to play C&C3 on my xbox :)
12:11:57 <waxman> truebrain, c&c3 on xbox.. i would miss my mouse and keyboard...
12:28:33 <TrueBrain> you do indeed miss that, but they did a nice job
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12:54:58 <peter1138> boekabart: loads of people thought of 45' roads, that's not the same as implementing ;)
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12:59:25 <boekabart> peter1138: you missed the irony... ;)
13:09:37 <Brianetta> davis paged me on my server wthout any explanation
13:58:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
13:59:46 *** Belugas sets mode: +o DorpsGek
13:59:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
14:00:10 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.5.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices"
14:00:28 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
14:03:49 <boekabart> TrueBrain: Maybe you could teach DorpsGek to set the topic
14:04:08 <TrueBrain> not like it is changing often or anything
14:04:13 <boekabart> so you can tell him to @topic
14:04:20 <TrueBrain> and what should it do then?
14:04:22 <boekabart> instead of asking him to op you
14:04:29 <boekabart> the pre-set topic you tteach him :)
14:04:37 <TrueBrain> #openttd topics aren't pre-set
14:04:41 <TrueBrain> in this case I needed to add a subdomain
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14:05:06 <Rexxars> first time I've been welcomed
14:05:13 <TrueBrain> And, do you like it?
14:05:25 <Belugas> Ok.. WELCOME Rexxars!!
14:05:33 <boekabart> TrueBrain is in a very good mood because he just got to pet his bot.
14:05:35 <Rexxars> I feel so.. loved! :D
14:05:49 <Rexxars> how do you pet a bot?
14:06:08 <Rexxars> oh god.. a virtual petting!
14:06:32 *** boekabart was kicked by DorpsGek (TrueBrain)
14:06:34 <TrueBrain> he had thatone coming :)
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14:07:03 <boekabart> oh come on, we were just having some "it's weekend" fun!
14:07:17 <boekabart> (not TrueBrains ass!!)
14:07:57 <boekabart> (before i get kicked again)
14:08:33 <Rexxars> how is SVN compared to 0.5.1? many new features?
14:08:42 <TrueBrain> Rexxars: euh, yes :p
14:08:52 <Rexxars> been like two months since I played OTTD :/
14:08:54 <TrueBrain> Rexxars: check roadmap of 0.6 on wiki, shows most of the big new things
14:09:39 <Rexxars> oh its nearly all done, that's impressive
14:12:05 <TrueBrain> we do not hug dutch people boekabart
14:12:29 <TrueBrain> But we are all not really female
14:12:58 <TrueBrain> but I have my doubts :p
14:13:06 <TrueBrain> boekabart: my point exactly!
14:13:52 <TrueBrain> I know a few words: sletje
14:14:36 <TrueBrain> haha :) Okay, let's get back ontopic...
14:15:30 <boekabart> so, you want to talk about 0.5.1!?
14:16:16 <TrueBrain> nah, that is in the past
14:16:21 <TrueBrain> more about blog.openttd.org :p
14:16:51 <boekabart> It's a good idea I think
14:17:05 <TrueBrain> I tend to think so too yes ;)
14:17:14 <TrueBrain> bah, I hate DNS cache
14:17:15 <boekabart> but should it be 1 blog where all the devs write....
14:17:26 <boekabart> I tend to prefer the first
14:18:12 <boekabart> Implies 'all devs', but you're the only one writing
14:18:24 <TrueBrain> read the latest post
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14:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> that really huge screenshot thingie from earlier has some buildings "borrowed" from sc2000, i think
14:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> some details are nice
14:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> like the two level bridge (road/rail)
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14:50:16 <Ailure> [16:45] <Eddi|zuHause3> that really huge screenshot thingie from earlier has some buildings "borrowed" from sc2000, i think
14:50:42 <Ailure> I forgot where, but I rememer seeing a uhm
14:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i first recognised the water tower
14:50:53 <Ailure> aircraft control tower
14:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> then a parking lot and a stadium
14:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> and several appartment buildings
14:51:11 <Ailure> it looked rather ugly too
14:51:17 <Ailure> as the author blew it up to 2x it's size
14:51:47 <Ailure> someone had it in his avatar
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15:13:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r9826 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix r9821: in bash '==' is disliked, use '='
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17:08:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DorpsGek
17:09:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
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17:21:37 *** Belugas sets mode: +o DorpsGek
17:28:57 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o Rubidium
17:29:10 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o Rubidium
17:30:52 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o peter1138
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18:35:18 * peter1138 ponders airdrag in tunnels
18:39:42 <Phazorx> peter1138: that'w why they try to have paired tunnels, saves a lot of power
18:41:07 <Sacro> hylje: thats a nice tunnel
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18:44:56 <peter1138> iirc ttdpatch doubles the airdrag in a tunnel, or something
18:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's why they try to reduce air pressure in tunnels :)
18:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you need special trains to run in "vacuum" tunnels
19:01:43 <Phazorx> or just have another one next to it with air chafts
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19:23:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9827 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: [NewGRF] Text strings of 1 character are perfectly valid... (fixes dbsetxl refits again...)
19:24:22 <peter1138> i wonder what it breaks again... never mind
19:29:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
19:49:51 <Wolf01> :( there's somebody who knows well how autorails code works?
19:50:49 <peter1138> my et-87 goes 111 mph with no speed limit
19:59:05 <peter1138> boooo, overflows ;(
19:59:37 <peter1138> what's wrong with 761600 hp? :/
20:02:29 <boekabart> since when is bridges-over-45 deg-rails in trunk?
20:03:13 <peter1138> one of the first things after the 0.5 branch
20:05:42 <_42_> Commit by celestar :: r7573 /trunk/ (39 files in 5 dirs) (2006-12-27 12:38:02 UTC)
20:05:44 <_42_> -Merged the bridge branch. Allows to build bridges of arbitrary rail/road combinations (including signals)
20:07:33 <peter1138> hmm, high speed requires a lot of power...
20:08:04 <peter1138> 2000t, 230000hp, 7300kN max te
20:08:08 <peter1138> max speed... 416 mph
20:09:11 <lolman> Is that taking air resistance and friction with rails into account?
20:09:38 <lolman> Wow, one hefty engine needed for that
20:09:42 <peter1138> supplied force 901 kN, resistive forces, 899 kN
20:10:46 <glx> hehe of course it needs a lot of power ;)
20:11:10 <peter1138> max speed should be 143 mph with this engine
20:11:13 <peter1138> those poor bearings...
20:12:38 <peter1138> i turned off realistic acceleration, and it went way faster
20:13:20 <peter1138> resistive forces are lower :/
20:14:04 <peter1138> must be an overflow somewhere there
20:17:59 * peter1138 tries to remember why he was playing with this...
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20:48:41 <mikegrb> multiple engines make a train handle hills better?
20:53:12 <mikegrb> I think this engine type just sucks ;)
20:54:53 <mikegrb> doess splitting them between back and front make a difference?
20:56:15 <mikegrb> the 32bpp stuff looks awesome, can't wait
20:58:45 <hylje> what is 32bpp around now?
21:01:18 <peter1138> around 4 times larger than 8 bpp!
21:06:43 <Ailure> I must be some kind of train layout nazi
21:06:46 <Ailure> even if it's in the sandbox
21:06:52 <Ailure> I have the urge of replacing that picture
21:07:19 <peter1138> nothing wrong with that
21:08:54 * hylje changes that to a 90 turn
21:10:24 <Ailure> I got people complaining that I disallowed 90 degree turns
21:11:17 <elmex> really great when you join a server, get a nice coal mine, build up your first line, and then later, when you hauled your first coal someone steps in, builds another station and leeches your mine. and says:
21:11:25 <elmex> "I was building tracks even before you joined!"
21:11:37 <Ailure> I hate when people complain about that
21:11:46 <Ailure> I see it as fair competition
21:12:01 <elmex> ah, getting in each others way is fair competition?
21:12:38 <Ailure> Blocking someone from building stuff
21:13:00 <Ailure> Picking up cargo from the same industry as someone else is fair though
21:13:03 <elmex> he is blocking me on purpose from building stuff :-) he is killing my money source so i can't build
21:13:50 <Ailure> but from the mpression I get, you're hardly getting killed
21:14:02 <Ailure> just concentrate on improving ratings to compete someone fairly
21:14:05 <Ailure> you get more cargo than him then
21:14:26 <elmex> how to improve ratings on a coal mine?
21:14:57 <Ailure> Explains the factors involved in station ratings
21:16:33 <Ailure> Now you're just mocking me :p
21:16:50 <hylje> i didnt make the rail extend all over the image
21:16:52 <Ailure> Imagine a train going 500 km/h on that track
21:17:20 <Ailure> which probably would be possible with the old acceleration algorithm and with maglev trains
21:19:46 * peter1138 throws Ailure's brain out of his ears
21:19:54 <hylje> his brain was in the ears?
21:20:04 <Ailure> passengers would no longer be passengers after a ride on a typical TTD maglev :p
21:20:30 <hylje> deaccelerates pretty fast
21:20:44 <Ailure> with a airport that as fixed now
21:21:01 <Ailure> which for some reason didn't slow down concordes at 2000 km/h
21:21:33 <Ailure> so a concorde would go from 2000 km/h to 50 km/h in a single 'tick'
21:25:13 <peter1138> ah, the default one works ok, mostly
21:25:26 <peter1138> the concorde in av8 touches down at 850 mph
21:25:44 <peter1138> and is doing 550 mph at the end of the runway
21:26:13 <Ailure> used to not slow down with some airports
21:26:32 <Sleepie> isn't that a kind of cheating ;)
21:26:48 <peter1138> sometimes it used to stop at the start of the runway
21:26:52 <Ailure> Breaking the laws of physics
21:26:55 <peter1138> then taxi the length of it at 31mph...
21:31:05 <peter1138> that would be something...
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21:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> we have too many peters around here
21:42:20 <XeryusTC> yes, let shoot a random one
21:42:34 <boekabart> but not peter1138, he's too important
21:42:53 * boekabart takes his nose out of peter1138s butt again
21:44:09 <peterbrett> You can't ever have too many Peters. I don't know what you're talking about.
21:44:28 <boekabart> isn't peter another word for.. err\
21:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> not in a sensible language ;)
21:45:41 <boekabart> in american english?
21:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i said sensible :pü
21:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> you're insane, i don't listen to you
21:48:44 * peterbrett wants signal autocomplete in svn
21:49:00 <boekabart> which is that? autocomplete until first switch?
21:49:17 <hylje> you can read my lines though
21:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, the plan is to make multiple signals per line unnecessary
21:49:58 <peterbrett> Eddi|zuHause3: how?
21:50:31 <boekabart> yeh, wanted that too
21:50:40 <boekabart> auto-keep-distance-based-on-speeds?
21:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was something about virtual signals, but the plan was not very far developed last time i checked :)
21:51:14 <peterbrett> The problem is that the effective block section length varies depending on what the piece of track is for
21:51:29 <peterbrett> peter1138: Yeah, what's the status of that?#
21:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the same plan :)
21:55:14 <Sleepie> someone had shoot him probably? ;P
22:06:45 <Ailure> "During that cleaning process, some nice bugs appeared, showing how interesting that feature will be, like temperate sawmill cutting trees around itself, exactly like the tropical lumber mill."
22:07:08 <Ailure> I remember that someone thought it was a new feature in openTTD xD
22:07:48 <Thomas[NL]> It happened to me and didn't know if it was a bug or a feature :)
22:08:17 <Thomas[NL]> but it looks stupid a square of bare land around the sawmill -.-
22:13:33 <glx> [00:06:30] <Thomas[NL]> shh...it's secret <-- it's in the topic ;)
22:14:58 <Thomas[NL]> oh no, someone leaked
22:23:29 <Ailure> " * Did you know that you can sell an entire train all at once by dragging the engine onto the dynamite icon? "
22:23:43 <Ailure> I remember when it was a dynamiet icon
22:24:11 <Ailure> Guess I just remove that tip altogether, since it kind of obvious in teh depot window now
22:28:13 <peter1138> i remember when i needed to go to sleep
22:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> that must have been a long time ago :p
22:36:00 *** glx|away has joined #openttd
22:39:25 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
22:44:48 <bencvt> merging? did i mess up the threads by renaming it?
22:46:13 *** glx|away is now known as glx
22:54:25 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
23:12:50 *** Sleepie has joined #openttd
23:56:20 * dihedral is going to hit the rack
continue to next day ⏵
