IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-04-30
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00:00:49 <Frostregen> if you have no loops, it may get slower, but never will clog completely
00:00:51 <Kodak> hey guys.. i need help with openttd.. gameplay advice
00:00:58 <elmex> that guy must have abandond the game, he's doing nothing and all his money goes to power the trains to be stuck
00:01:20 <Ailure> reminds me what I did in a game
00:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> people actually do sleep occasionally :p
00:01:27 <Ailure> I bought exclusive rights in one town
00:01:31 <Ailure> his whole network deadlocked
00:01:36 <Ailure> that was so fun to see
00:01:45 <Frostregen> yes, if you don't use overflow depots
00:01:56 <Kodak> how do i go about removing roads around towns, when the roads have no dead end? they loop back into the town. the local authorities always denies that...
00:02:24 <Kodak> but i have excellent ranking
00:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Kodak: go to the patches window, there's an option "allow removal of town road" or something
00:02:43 <Sionide> build loads of trees around the town, dunno if that little hack still works or not, but it used to make the town council love you, hehe
00:02:57 <Kodak> yeah, ive done that before :P
00:03:13 <Frostregen> is currently beeing worked on cargo-reservation when loading cargo?
00:03:15 <Kodak> thats not the problem though
00:03:39 <Frostregen> (to allow more than one train loading at once, without disabling fifo)
00:03:50 <Kodak> i can kill roads that have an dead end.. but not those who loop back and doesnt have an end
00:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen no attempt to do so
00:04:01 <Sionide> the last revision i have installed is in the r5,000s
00:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> there was something about complete rewrite of the loading code :)
00:04:49 <Frostregen> hm, maybe this is part of it
00:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is usually combined with "not enough time"
00:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's the natural order of things :)
00:05:41 <Frostregen> the only solution i found for this is not really satisfying
00:06:36 <Frostregen> building 2 or more separate stations, which are in vicinity of the factory in question
00:16:07 <eJoJ> Frostregen what happens if you turn off improved loading algorithm? then more trains load at the same time
00:16:23 <Frostregen> yes, but fifo is off
00:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> without improved loading, big stations tend to clog up with half full trains
00:17:59 <Frostregen> you have to relate the number of platforms to the production level
00:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> and this is ... suboptimal :)
00:19:25 <eJoJ> anyway, of to play some more on my game
00:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't really affect me, i rarely have more than 2 platforms loading simultaneously
00:22:05 <Frostregen> this is true for all, but the 1 factory loading bay in your super network
00:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> see, i don't have a "super network" :)
00:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> i tend to do more realistic networks
00:23:23 <Frostregen> i'm still getting fun out of optimizing entrances and exits
00:23:33 <Frostregen> but realistic networks may be the next
00:24:13 <Frostregen> with loading working corrently the exits will jam again
00:25:05 <Frostregen> has anyone done some maths about maximum cargo throughput?
00:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> maximum in which bounds?
00:27:22 <Frostregen> parameters should be trainlength/cargo per train/trainspeed/no of parallel lines
00:28:10 <Frostregen> or just for 1 line at first ;)
00:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's difficult...
00:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> especially when time for leaving/arriving gets longer than time for loading/unloading :)
00:30:10 <Frostregen> assume the station is large enough
00:30:22 <Frostregen> so 1 train is always loading
00:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> with gradual loading, all wagons load simultaneously, so train length is irrelevant
00:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> (assuming no overhang wagons)
00:31:43 <Frostregen> no, because there are wagons with different length/cargo ratio
00:32:31 <Frostregen> think of a single line, with no space, just trains
00:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that has nothing to do with train length
00:32:47 <Frostregen> the engine is the packet overhead
00:34:00 <Frostregen> ok, you are right, the first argument had nothing to do with it
00:38:59 <Frostregen> so it is ((cargo/length)*speed)*C
00:39:51 <Frostregen> (cargo/length) = cargo-capacity per tile...
00:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, that doesn't look correct
00:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> speed per tile is different if you have 2 wagons or 3 wagons on the tile
00:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you should really count in train length in wagons
00:46:50 <Frostregen> (amount of cargo within one tile) * speed * C
00:47:18 <Frostregen> or do you mean something else?
00:48:32 <Frostregen> if you double the cargo per tile, the throughput doubles too
00:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, if you have 2 wagons per tile which unload with speed 5, you get a different speed than if you have 3 smaller wagons that have a speed of 4
00:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> 2*5 = 10 speed per tile
00:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> 3*4 = 12 speed per tile
00:49:44 <Frostregen> i was talking about trainspeed
00:49:49 <Frostregen> not loading/unloading speed
00:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> what does the train speed do there?
00:50:32 <Frostregen> the result should be the throughput of a single line of track
00:51:07 <Frostregen> if a train is twice as fast, the throughput doubles too
00:51:30 <Frostregen> (as long as loading/unloading times are irrelevant)
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00:53:01 <valhallasw> -bash: ./a.out > /dev/null: No such file or directory
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07:54:00 <elmex> i wish one could jump to the place where the player last placed something - would be cool for spectating multiplayer games
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08:33:42 <Ailure> elmex: When you join a game, you start where the server is 'looking'
08:33:57 <Ailure> so if the server is a player ;)
08:37:36 <neli> but, will you follow it ?
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11:11:21 <eJoJ> peter1138 what's up with your newgrf? :P
11:12:50 <eJoJ> is it your server up runing r9734? i got newgrf mismatch, lots of Unknown :P
11:13:42 <Rubidium> eJoJ: some packets got lost with the names of the GRFs
11:15:28 <eJoJ> ahha btw is there a change in the netcode in r9734 i'm struggeling with massive desyncs
11:16:18 <eJoJ> or maybe it's just my connection causing the desyncs :/
11:16:21 <peter1138> that would cause a desync :p
11:16:35 <hylje> the desyncs are likely because we screwed up the savegame somewhat
11:16:48 <Rubidium> eJoJ: what is the exact message when you get disconnected?
11:16:55 <eJoJ> that makes sence, now fix it hylje :P
11:17:09 <hylje> the current save is fubar
11:17:14 <hylje> next one should work fine
11:17:46 <hylje> we changed grfs mid-game iirc
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11:50:36 <RobertGrammig> which game currently has a more challenging? ttdpatch or openttd? or none of them ;)?
11:50:36 <RobertGrammig> more challenging AI I mean ;)
11:55:28 <Cipri> openttd has better online game. Online competition is better then AI's.
11:55:42 <Cipri> And only cooperative is better then online competition!
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12:34:18 <Ailure> well, openTTD would have a potentially better with the AI branch :p
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13:07:07 <TheJosh> Hey does anyone here have an opinion of my 'Found a Town' patch?
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13:12:03 <peter1138> does it work yet? :D
13:13:10 <Cipri> I'd love a patch like that.
13:15:12 <TheJosh> Yes it works, almost complete (im adding a patch option to enable/disable right now)
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13:15:49 <peter1138> afternoon, Maedhros
13:15:59 * peter1138 mumbles at tab-complete failing for "afternoon" ...
13:16:31 <TheJosh> Maedhros: have you seen my latest patch (another town one...)
13:16:55 <neli> where did you find it, on the attic ? :P
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13:19:46 <Maedhros> i'll wait for that, then :)
13:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i actually did find a town in the attic once :)
13:21:36 <TheJosh> just testing the configure patches over network (gotta love loopback, although its boring playing against yourself)
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13:29:01 <TheJosh> is it possible to have a patch option thats in openttd.cfg and network, but not save game???
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13:32:50 <Maedhros> not if you want it to do anything during the game, no
13:36:23 <Maedhros> well, to prevent desyncs all clients must have the same value for the patch option
13:36:37 <Maedhros> but if you don't save it in the savegame it won't be synced when the game starts
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13:41:34 <TheJosh> wont the clients just ask the server what its patch option is?
13:44:02 <Maedhros> no. it's only synced at the start of the game (within the savegame) and when it changes
13:44:49 <Frostregen> TheJosh: use the SLF_SAVE_NO flag
13:45:08 <Frostregen> former NS flag, but this got removed
13:45:27 <TheJosh> I have put in that flag, did not get desyncs
13:45:52 <Maedhros> Frostregen: it was removed because it breaks things
13:46:21 <Maedhros> TheJosh: try starting a game where the server uses a different value than the client
13:46:43 <Frostregen> hmm, it worked fine for me
13:47:01 <Frostregen> as a server-side only option
13:48:33 <TheJosh> the server and the client had different settings even when the game was run
13:48:39 <TheJosh> i guess I will change that then
13:49:17 <Frostregen> will somethin similar be reintroduced? (which works ;)
13:50:10 <Frostregen> how was this done before patch-settings were saved into the savegame?
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13:54:47 <valhallasw> hurray for killing the stack \o/
13:59:09 <peter1138> Frostregen: they were sent separately
14:00:26 <Maedhros> TheJosh: you don't need to use CheckPlayerHasMoney() - the DoCommand checks that already
14:01:29 <Maedhros> also, it might be nice for all the houses to start off in the initial construction state, not most of them fully built
14:01:51 <peter1138> there's a stray tab in the language file changes
14:02:58 <peter1138> and stray non-tabs elsewhere, heh
14:03:01 <TheJosh> Maedhros: How would I implement that? currently I the code uses a slightly modified version of the scenario builder function
14:04:23 <Maedhros> you'd could pass something to DoCreateTown, which would pass it to DoBuildTownHouse (?)
14:04:34 <Maedhros> there might be quite a few steps in between though ;)
14:05:28 <Maedhros> has anyone noticed that "Trees of random type" in the tropic landscape isn't actually random at all?
14:05:29 <TheJosh> peter1138: ill see if i can fix those things
14:08:10 <TheJosh> Maedhros, peter1138: do you guys like the idea of the patch?
14:09:00 <Maedhros> the idea's good, yeah
14:18:49 <Rubidium> TheJosh: I think town funding should be disabled by default
14:20:24 <Rubidium> the patch itself is also littered with all kinds of other changes that are not part of creating towns (like adding newlines in comments and in other random places)
14:22:27 <Maedhros> huh. apparently there is only one type of tree in the subtropical part
14:22:57 <TheJosh> Rubidium: Part of the patch is the commenting of some things in town_cmd.cpp
14:23:22 <TheJosh> Dont worry, i can clean that kind of stuff up
14:23:26 <Rubidium> yes, but that shouldn't be in this patch, it should be in another patch
14:24:06 <TheJosh> it is, Belugas has it, he merged some of them in already
14:26:55 <TheJosh> Ok i have found a few issues,
14:27:36 <Rubidium> like: a hacked client can make towns for free?
14:28:25 <Rubidium> (he can just 'call' CmdBuildTown)
14:31:40 <Rubidium> that CmdBuildTown isn't an offline command anymore (with your patch)
14:32:04 <TheJosh> that is cruft, from when the code used CmdBuildTown, will fix
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14:39:49 <TheJosh> i am cleaning all that up, will release v5 soon
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14:49:00 <Sjoerd-> hi, how comes I get cannot contruct diamond error in red box while playing temperate?
14:50:54 <TheJosh> anyway, off to bed now, tis 12:23am...
14:53:20 <Belugas> Sjoerd- : this is really a vague problem description...
14:53:47 <Sjoerd-> ok well, i'm playing game on a 0.5.1 server
14:54:06 <Sjoerd-> then suddenly a red error box pops up stating: cannot construct diamond mine
14:54:42 <Sjoerd-> maybe my teammate is causing it, I asked but no answer
14:55:09 <Sjoerd-> It's the second time it happens.
14:56:28 <Sjoerd-> if it happens again I will make a screenshot
14:56:50 <Belugas> maybe a savegame too?
14:57:04 <Belugas> althoug i doubt it would be usefulll...
14:57:05 <Sjoerd-> I can make one now, and send it to you.
14:57:24 <Sjoerd-> Well it's not big deal anyway, just thought it was a little strange.
15:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> 16:50] <TheJosh> anyway, off to bed now, tis 12:23am... <- weird time he has...
15:04:10 <Touqen> Eddi|zuHause2: not if he's in a timezone that's x.5 off of utc
15:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is still a weird time... :)
15:04:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> aside from being 3 minutes off
15:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know such timezones exist
15:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the funny thing with that map is the small spot in the south that has 23:51, which is like a x:45 timezone between the x:00 and the x+1:30 timezone :)
15:11:20 <Touqen> Yea. Now _that_ is weird.
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17:24:48 <maddy_> Brianetta, if you there can you reset the game?
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17:35:52 <yeti_> how do i checkout the trunk if i just want to have the files needed to compile (like nightly sources)? i tried svn co svn://svn.openttd.org, but that one's really large
17:38:47 <yeti_> ouch, silly me :) thank you
17:43:40 <yeti_> is it recommended to run make clean/make mrproper before svn update?
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17:46:46 <DaleStan> yeti_: Usually not. clean and mrproper are only used when you need to recompile everything. An update will rarely, if ever, cause this.
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18:56:46 <MeusH> hey Wolf01, how's your coding?
18:56:56 <MeusH> have you coded something recently?
18:57:45 <Wolf01> yes, i'm always at work
18:58:21 <Wolf01> now i'm coding a "ctrl+click on widget toggles between transparent and invisible" for trees and maybe houses
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20:05:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9757 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1244842]: when you have closed the "Load game"/"New game" windows accessible from the "New Server" window, any creation of new game/loading from the intro menu should not start a server.
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20:43:38 <Ammler> !translate en_de abstain
20:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: "[Stimme] enthalten"
20:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: dict.leo.org
20:49:08 <Ammler> _42_ has done that before
20:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> not that i remember...
20:50:28 <Ammler> in the channel #openttdcoop, he does
20:50:53 <Ammler> I liked to show TrueBrain, that somehing has changed
20:52:57 <TrueBrain> Ammler: on request, those commands have been disabled for #openttd
20:53:18 <Ammler> [22:43] <_42_> Ammler: anslation" rows="10" cols="3" style="float:left; clear:none; background-color:#FFFFFF; color:#000000; border-color:#FFFFFF;">enthalten Sie sich "
20:54:21 <Ammler> I wasn't here while you changed the name, is that a secret?
20:54:26 <TrueBrain> I really would like for those sites to add XMLRPC
20:54:32 <TrueBrain> then I don't have to parse the $@#%#$@# HTML
20:54:46 <TrueBrain> Ammler: what are you talking about?
20:54:59 <Ammler> Truelight, to much highlights?
20:55:31 <Ammler> was away for half a year
20:55:37 <valhallasw> Truelight has donated it's light to a signal that lost one
20:55:40 <TrueBrain> I never have been away :p
20:56:09 <TrueBrain> Haha, I totally lost you :p
20:57:32 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I will correct !translate tomorrow or something
20:59:30 <TrueBrain> I just hope they have an alternative :)
20:59:36 <TrueBrain> I might suggest it to them, who knows it helps
20:59:41 <TrueBrain> a nice XMLRPC would be lovely
20:59:46 <TrueBrain> or just a non-HTML page in fact would be lovely
21:01:27 <TrueBrain> okay, me is gone, have fun all :)
21:17:22 <Sacro> valhallasw: does that mean next he donates his brain?
21:18:33 <Sacro> whoever gets that is getting a crap deal...
23:07:22 <Digitalfox[Home]> Please developers make an option to not have airplane crashes, when disasters set to none.. With 530 A380 planes i have 3 crashes every month if i don't save 3 or 4 times a month.. :(
23:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> a cheat "no plane crahes", i would agree
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23:31:58 <Digitalfox[Home]> Phazorx: It seems if i save before the crash like 2 days, it doesn't cause the random crash.. Don' know why.. The year is 2010, and i have breakdowns also disabled, and they get service from every 400days..
23:32:40 <Phazorx> crashes are random but only affect aircrafts with certain reliability
23:32:52 <Phazorx> 400 days is way too long i guess
23:35:47 <Digitalfox[Home]> yeah, since i have disasters and breackdowns set to none, it should happen.. :(
23:35:57 <Digitalfox[Home]> *it shouldn't
23:39:55 <Phazorx> well devs things a 15 months in the air is too much :)
23:43:09 <izhirahider> they should run out of fuel :)
23:49:11 <Phazorx> in that case - all passengers sepnt enroute mroe than a month should die from starvation :)
23:52:00 <izhirahider> well, they could eat each other to minimize the damage
continue to next day ⏵
