IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-04-29
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07:25:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9741 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#672]: station signs were not resized when the language changed, causing overflows in the coloured sign background.
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08:43:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9742 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix (r9689) [FS#739]: Fix cloning with refit costs again, hopefully for good this time.
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09:19:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9743 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#598]: Stop flooded towns from building roads on water.
09:23:43 <SpComb> hylje: I just commited something to the spbot svn repo!
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09:24:41 * Touqen debates whether he's been a member of the community long enough to be shocked.
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09:55:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9745 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp: -Codechange [YAPF}: if destination is a waypoint then YAPF gets destination tile from that waypoint->xy instead of from v->dest_tile
10:04:55 <SpComb> hylje: two more commits!
10:13:38 <valhallasw> and then we have reached r9747?
10:14:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9746 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp: -Codechange [YAPF]: added DEBUGs level 0 if the current train order is OT_GOTO_WAYPOINT and waypoint is invalid or v->dest_tile is wrong
10:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> spbot != openttd
10:17:23 <TrueBrain> makes you wonder why they talk about it here :p :p
10:18:06 <valhallasw> Well. My personal SVN rep has reached rev 64 \o/
10:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> the same reason why they talk about university stuff ^^
10:18:25 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: okay, point for you :)
10:18:50 <valhallasw> it mainly made me wonder why they talked about it just after an openttd commit :p
10:19:52 <TrueBrain> I just really hope they didn't talk about the Trojan :)
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12:27:29 <ln-> any danish people raound?
12:36:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9747 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileListRoadTile and AITileListNeighbourRoad as Valuators for AITileList
12:47:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9748 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tilelist_valuator.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: use TileDiffXY instead of TileXY to move in the map (tnx glx)
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12:55:11 <kbrooks> Wolf01, talking to me or?
12:55:45 <kbrooks> no, sorry, i meant "openttd" :-)
13:02:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9749 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): [NoAI] -Add: added regression-test for new AITileList valuators
13:02:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9750 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: if AIAbstractList is empty, don't make the sorters segfault
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13:11:08 <elmex> openttd: tile.h:36: TileHeight: Assertion `tile < MapSize()' failed.
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13:12:41 <elmex> and no helpful backtrace ;-/
13:13:32 <Wolf01> will the multi-level water be applied soon to trunk?
13:16:44 <Zavior> Whats multilevel water? :o
13:17:05 <elmex> heh, it just keeps crashing
13:18:11 <elmex> i guess bugs/crashes should go to the sourceforge tracker?
13:20:13 <elmex> damn, another bugtracker to register :-(
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13:31:42 <elmex> okay, svn seems not to crash
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13:44:00 <yeti_> is anyone of you using nightly builds on linux? how do you install them? does anyone happen to have a script that copies the files from the nightlies to the right directories?
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13:45:10 <Chrissicom> is there a dev tutorial how ShowErrorMessage() works?
13:45:25 <Chrissicom> I don't know which arguments are required in brackets
13:47:28 <TrueBrain> search the code, look at other instances, look at gui.h
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13:48:52 <yeti_> Chrissicom: the function is in misc_gui.c - it takes up to two error message identifiers (see other examples) and the x/y position where it should be displayed as far as i see
13:50:46 <Chrissicom> ah thanks I forgot the x y pos :)
13:54:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9751 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: silly typo in doxygen header
13:55:30 <Chrissicom> one more question, where can I find a good example how to disable a menu button in certain cases?
13:58:57 <yeti_> Chrissicom: look for the toggle build/remove tracks-button
13:59:18 <yeti_> that one will be activated when building signals/tracks is active and disabled otherwise
14:01:17 <Maedhros> you probably want DisableWindowWidget, unless you're talking about drop-down menus
14:06:32 <Chrissicom> Maedhros: This should do it, I want to disable the vehicle lists when there are no vehicles of that type :)
14:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> because that list has the button for available vehicles
14:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is the only place where you can check those without building a depot
14:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is necessary for planning a route
14:08:46 <Chrissicom> well I want to combine this with another patch
14:09:01 <Chrissicom> when you set trains allowed to 0 for example you should not be able to build tracks
14:09:10 <Chrissicom> and when no trains can be built you also don't need that button
14:09:15 <Chrissicom> since there will always be 0 trains
14:09:30 <Chrissicom> same for airports, docks etc.
14:09:53 <Chrissicom> I have a few servers which don't allow planes and people don't read the server title obviously build airports and wonder why they can't build any planes
14:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> ok, that sounds more sensible, but not just disable with 0 vehicles existing...
14:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> but for example with 0 road vehicles allowed you should still be able to build road (e.g. to influence town growth)
14:14:31 <Chrissicom> ahh you're right I haven't thought about that yet
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14:49:05 <yeti_> does openttd benefit from CFLAGS="-march=pentium4" or should i just use the defaults?
14:50:01 <peter1138> i don't know if anyone's bothered benchmarking it
14:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i assume it's minimal...
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14:50:30 <TrueBrain> but it will always help, assuming you have a pentium4 (compatible) CPU :p
14:51:27 <ln-> i doubt the benefit is detectable by human eye.
14:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> some optimisations for pentium4 cpus might not be as optimal on "compatible" cpus
14:52:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> considering pipeline lengths and stuff
14:52:20 <TrueBrain> but the same is that a i686 compiler makes 'faster' binaries then a i386 compiler, if you have a "compatible" cpu
14:53:28 <ln-> as long as ottd is using sleep/delay/sched_yield/whatever, doesn't that neutralize all the potential optimizations?
14:53:56 <ln-> as long as we're talking about speed imporvements of few per cent, not something like O(e^n) -> O(n)
14:54:09 <TrueBrain> but it is more that it will be use less CPU
14:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> compiler optimisations pretty much NEVER cross complexity borders
14:54:48 <TrueBrain> but I doubt anyone can get a profile that shows the difference clearly (say, an alpha of 0.05)
14:55:22 <TrueBrain> (alpha as in significant level (H0 hypotize) (what are the english words :p))
14:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> except if you have pretty stupid things in there, like array accesses in O(n)
14:55:44 <ln-> but someone please go ahead and compile it optimized and report your experiences here.
14:55:58 <TrueBrain> by default I compile everything for my CPU :p
14:56:02 <TrueBrain> it doesn't hurt in any way :p
14:56:12 <Maedhros> the difference between debug and release builds is pretty much the only difference i've ever noticed ;)
14:56:27 <TrueBrain> haha, that kind of is a bug difference ;)
14:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> noticeable jumps might be if you go from i386 to MMX, and make heavy use of 8-bit operations... then you can get something like a factor of 4
14:58:59 <TrueBrain> using a cpu-set extension might also decrease the binary size
14:59:26 <TrueBrain> but it is not really worth it :)
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15:15:17 <peter1138> because you're using maglev
15:15:24 <peter1138> and you can't see when you're missing track pieces
15:16:09 <peter1138> specifically the corner that would let them get to the other tracks
15:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> maglev tracks are so ugly...
15:18:00 <elmex> pre-signals are really cool
15:18:15 <yeti_> uh.. how does ottd handle time? game time seems to run a bit faster in my selfcompiled version
15:18:39 <yeti_> i'm not exactly sure about it, but it does feel so
15:18:52 <yeti_> latest nightly (compiled it myself) against ottd0.5.1
15:19:03 <TrueBrain> no difference in game speed if you don't fast forward
15:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> run two games (without too heavy load) simultaneously
15:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> and compare game time after a few minutes
15:19:58 <elmex> maybe autosave does delay a bit?
15:20:43 <yeti_> ah, that's a good idea. will try that
15:21:30 <yeti_> is there an overview over what's new in the nightlies compared to 0.5.1? i tried to make a source diff, but that is so large that i can't extract any useful information :)
15:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's supposed to be a changelog :)
15:22:42 <TrueBrain> we call it 'svn log' ;)
15:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> the most important (visible) features should be bridges over everything and newhouses support
15:25:55 <yeti_> i've already noticed bridges over everything - how do you make that fancy bridge over tunnel entrance thingie that saves place in certain junctions?
15:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that is possible...
15:29:47 <yeti_> uhhh... and the cargo payment rates for passengers seem to have been changed. they make double profit now (on a savegame i had from 0.5.1)
15:30:00 <TrueBrain> no, aircraft speed changed
15:30:50 <yeti_> oh okay! the numerical value for "Max Speed" is still the same, but they do look very fast :)
15:31:05 <TrueBrain> they now have the same speed of a train at a given speed (instead of twice as slow :p)
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15:31:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought the factor was x4
15:31:35 <yeti_> that's interesting, because i thought that planes were very profitable even before this change
15:31:50 <TrueBrain> yeah, lucky someone is working on a new economy model...
15:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> you first have to reduce special cases, before you can work on proper global rebalancing
15:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the plane speed was such a special case
15:34:27 <elmex> the game wasn't as hard as i thought. i was able to win on difficulty 'hard'. but i guess thats also because the computer enemies are most of the time no enemy
15:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think the intention was to make starting/landing more expensive (money and/or time) instead
15:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> so planes are viable for long distances only
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15:45:21 <kbrooks> do i search for those .zip files somewhere....
15:47:03 <kbrooks> Rubidium, original game files zips
15:50:15 * peter1138 found them on his cd
15:51:12 <peter1138> damn, i need to kill my dad
15:52:08 <TrueBrain> peter1138: it might not be the smartest thing to tell us about it first :p
15:53:32 <TrueBrain> I wonder if lolman will ever get a stable connection....
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16:10:55 <yeti_> i know that the layout is very far from perfect, but i can't see how this could have happened
16:13:00 <TrueBrain> did you check all tiles are there?
16:14:45 <Maedhros> looks like you're missing a piece of track there
16:15:35 <TrueBrain> then it really is missing a piece of track on the tile :)
16:19:03 <yeti_> nah, all the tiles are there... maybe it went in when the presignal was green, but then another train came from the top and entered the track that the jammed train wnated to enter?
16:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should probably avoid 2-way-stations
16:22:14 <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause2, what is a 2 way station
16:22:39 <hylje> yapf discourages going through a station
16:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> a station surrounded by 2-way-signals
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16:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transporte,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png <- a not-100%-2-way-station
16:24:19 <yeti_> Eddi|zuHause2: i know :) but they're easier to build in the beginning
16:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can only enter each 2nd track
16:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but leave in both directions
16:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: but only if there's a path around it
16:31:52 <kbrooks> any good openttd server?:-)
16:32:04 <TrueBrain> any server is good :)
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16:32:26 <dihedral> concerning industry_cmd.cpp
16:32:39 <dihedral> what do you guys think of new_prod += ((RandomRange(51) + 10) * old_prod) >> 8
16:32:47 <dihedral> or new_prod += 1 + ((RandomRange(50) + 10) * old_prod) >> 8
16:32:59 <TrueBrain> the first doesn't work
16:33:08 <kbrooks> TrueBrain, are you on any?
16:33:39 <TrueBrain> dihedral: how do you think it can work? :)
16:33:54 <dihedral> i have no idea - i am just throwing in some suggestion :-)
16:34:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> what is that thing supposed to do?!?
16:34:34 <dihedral> make sure production can increase if it hits a 1-4
16:38:42 <dihedral> TrueBrain: what makes you think it cannot work?
16:39:07 <TrueBrain> first I eat my icecream
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16:39:26 <dihedral> well - enjoy that :-)
16:40:29 <TrueBrain> okay, let's get back to what the problem was
16:40:39 <TrueBrain> if old_prod is low enough, the increase is always 0
16:40:56 <TrueBrain> because: (RandomRange(50) + 10) * old_prod / 256, is what the original code says, not?
16:41:24 <dihedral> so give old_prod a 1
16:41:25 <TrueBrain> so, (RandomRange(50) + 10) * old_prod needs to be > 256
16:41:36 <TrueBrain> say, RandomRange returns 50, the highest value
16:41:51 <TrueBrain> old_prod needs to be > 256 / 60 to do anything at all
16:42:24 <TrueBrain> so changing the 50 to 51, doesn't change anything at all
16:42:29 <TrueBrain> yeah, it changes this:
16:42:32 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 4.26666666667
16:42:34 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 4.19672131148
16:43:31 <TrueBrain> an other one would be:
16:43:43 <TrueBrain> (RandomRange(50) + 10) * (old_prod + 4) >> 8
16:44:14 <dihedral> do the mp clients recieve this data or do they have to calculate it themselves
16:44:20 <dihedral> ie. is it enough to patch the server?
16:44:28 <TrueBrain> nope, you need to patch both client and server
16:45:12 <kbrooks> why might i have a hard time seeing text
16:45:36 <TrueBrain> or switch on your computer screen
16:45:47 <kbrooks> my computer screen is on
16:45:55 <dihedral> connect the vga cable
16:46:10 <TrueBrain> don't use 6000x4000 resolution on a 11" screen
16:46:39 <dihedral> use a native res on TFT's
16:51:45 <dihedral> TrueBrain: how much chance of that patch getting included some time soonish?
16:52:01 <TrueBrain> dunno, as I am personally not all too happy with the solution
16:54:03 <TrueBrain> ugly, more of a workaround then a real solution
16:54:45 <dihedral> but a work around is better than nothing, esp if it is only included in 0.5 and you then have more time to find a real solution for trunk and 0.6
16:54:56 <TrueBrain> we don't work like that :)
16:55:06 <TrueBrain> but I will give it an other poke around
16:55:32 <dihedral> i am just a very curious person :-P
16:57:21 <TrueBrain> which can be a good thing ;)
16:57:54 <TrueBrain> you should ask a woman if you can look at some places because you are curious
16:57:58 <TrueBrain> I doubt she will like it :p
16:58:14 <TrueBrain> they don't like you looking at their size of their t-shirt
17:03:49 <TrueBrain> you guys have no humor at all :(
17:16:10 <kbrooks> how do i get rid of all non-pinned windows
17:16:50 <TrueBrain> I always press it without thinking :p
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17:21:06 <Cipri> and Ctrl+Delete closes all pinned down windows aswell.
17:21:37 <TrueBrain> then wtf does backspace do? :p
17:22:00 <Cipri> Erase text after you've clicked on a sign?
17:22:14 <TrueBrain> haha :) Delete erares text too, if you are in an edit box :)
17:26:50 <dihedral> <TrueBrain> I doubt she will like it :p <-- just because it never worked for you does not mean it will be the same for me
17:28:16 <dihedral> and extra rules option in the network settings of the cfg file would be cool
17:28:30 <dihedral> wher one can specify a url where the rules are kept
17:28:42 <dihedral> and openttd.org/servers.php can refer to that page too
17:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i do not think any woman will let you look in her purse...
17:31:13 <TrueBrain> I know enoguh who in fact do... or worse: can you get that from my purse? :p
17:34:51 <Rubidium> DaleStan: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2 <- Vehicle trigger 2 (The consist has unloaded all cargo): does that mean it has unloaded everything and might already be loading stuff, or it unloaded everything it can unload at that station (and is already loading other stuff), or that the train is completely empty
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17:54:30 <DaleStan> Rubidium: I'm not sure. Ask patchman. I'm guessing it means what it says: "has unloaded all cargo", for which "is empty" is necessary but not sufficient. However, it says "consist", not "vehicle", so I'm not sure how that works with gradual loading, as some vehicles may start loading before others finish unloading.
17:55:08 <Rubidium> how can I reach patchman?
18:21:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9752 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: remove some duplication related to BeginLoading.
18:21:52 <G-Man> hi all, I get this error when I try to compile openttd on my freebsd shell: ===> Linking openttd
18:21:52 <G-Man> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpthread
18:21:52 <G-Man> gmake: *** [openttd] Error 1
18:22:06 <G-Man> any input on how I can fix that?
18:22:32 <Noldo> you are missing the thread library named pthread
18:23:22 <G-Man> hmm, how do I obtain it?
18:24:27 <Noldo> it's pretty standard stuff so my guess is that it's packaged in freebsd too
18:30:06 <hylje> hmm how buffer is scrolled in screen
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18:57:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:04:06 <hnsn> but its not ok to spread modifyed grf:s, right?
19:04:47 <valhallasw> if you don't have permission of the original copyright owner, no
19:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can change trees with newgrf
19:07:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't need to modify original grfs
19:07:47 <TrueBrain> whoho, personal record: 109 Mbit/sec over the Internet
19:07:54 <TrueBrain> that with 100 Mbit/sec switches and cables
19:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> aside of that, the new transparency options allow invisible trees without transparent buildings
19:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i did not even reach 0,5Mbit yet
19:08:59 <TrueBrain> Running stable for 3 minutes now...
19:09:25 <TrueBrain> You got to love fast backbones :)
19:11:12 <hnsn> Eddi|zuHause2: is that option available in a current release?
19:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but in trunk, i believe
19:12:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:13:15 <yeti_> TrueBrain: 109mbit? university connection?
19:13:55 <yeti_> hnsn: invisible trees without transparent buildings is available in the latest nightly build, i installed it today
19:13:56 <TrueBrain> yeti_: yeah, just 2 switches of 100 Mbit here, then fiber optic :)
19:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i get pretty constant 45KB down and 8KB up
19:15:15 <TrueBrain> stress-test of 10 minutes shows a nice stable link, and that over 300 km :)
19:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> holland isn't that big :p
19:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> 300km? from where to where?
19:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> east germany was 500km from north to south, holland is definitely much smaller than that
19:18:32 <TrueBrain> from DenHelder to Maastricht it already is 250km when you go in a very straight line
19:18:41 <TrueBrain> so don't worry, 300 km isn't that long
19:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> 300km is from here to berlin and back
19:20:26 <Maedhros> london's more than 300km from here, and england isn't known for being that big :)
19:20:34 <TrueBrain> look up a map of The Netherlands, and you will see that you can make easy routes of 300 km
19:21:11 <TrueBrain> Maedhros: I think England is BIG!!! :p
19:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> england is pretty spread out...
19:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> especially if you mean britain instead ;)
19:22:23 <valhallasw> wasn't there a server info box coming for the server list?
19:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> i do not remember anyone implementing this
19:23:33 <TrueBrain> I do not even remember anyone trying to implement
19:24:07 <valhallasw> I'm not too familiar with the code at this moment, but how (im)possible would it be?
19:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> there has been discussion that it would be a nice feature
19:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's mainly gui code, and that is always ugly :)
19:25:29 <Rubidium> and (very) limited space in the server info packet
19:25:54 <yeti_> hnsn: yeah, i'm running 9734
19:27:41 <hnsn> yeti_: ok got it. but i cant find the setting, there are too many =D
19:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> hnsn: there's a "transparency gui" somewhere
19:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> i assume in the same dropdown that has the game settings and patch settings
19:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never seen it live...
19:29:49 <hnsn> you are just kidding me, right? =D
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19:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i'm late and missed 1st april
19:32:23 <glx> it's in the "map" dropdown
19:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> aha, good to know ;)
19:34:30 <hnsn> but give me my 5 minutes it took to erase then from the grf back!!
19:50:48 <Wolf01> use CTRL+2 to make trees transparent
19:51:54 <dihedral> funding a lumber mill in a tropical game is possible even if build_rawmaterial_ind is turned off
19:53:13 <Wolf01> eh, lumber mills should be secondary industries, but the one in tropical is an exception
19:53:44 <dihedral> that is pretty distrubing
19:54:06 <peter1138> the tropic lumber mill is *only* fundable
19:54:11 <peter1138> they don't appear by themselves
19:54:37 <dihedral> would be nice if it were the other way round
19:54:47 <dihedral> as they produce raw material
19:55:03 <dihedral> makes me not want to host tropicals anymore
19:55:17 <dihedral> but tropical is a great map
19:57:09 <Wolf01> i've never seen, recently, an industry pop up by himself, i mean "new industry built near city", some time ago it was common to see an industry pop up like a mushroom in the middle of your straight rail project
19:57:50 <Wolf01> dihedral, but you should know that if they cut all the trees they have the production reduced
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20:05:05 <elmex> wtf. there is a whole science build up on railway layouts
20:07:11 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
20:09:38 <hnsn> i have no clue what you guys are talking about
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20:10:11 <peter1138> yucky 90 degree bends ;(
20:11:28 <elmex> peter1138: my problem was that i didn't have enough money in the beginning to expand the land
20:11:43 <elmex> so i had to edal with the space i had
20:12:40 <elmex> whats the problme with 90degree? that the trains slow down?
20:17:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9753 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp:
20:17:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#732]: trains are lost after autorenewal/autoreplace
20:17:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: v->dest_tile is now copied when replacing the front engine
20:17:45 <dihedral> counting the station parts
20:18:06 <dihedral> only count station parts that are being services by the appropriate vehicle type
20:20:30 <Bjarni> because if I say anything, then I would have to read back what you said in order to know what I reply to :p
20:21:29 <dihedral> it was only a 3 liner
20:21:41 <dihedral> for the ranking system, when counting the station parts
20:21:58 <dihedral> you could only count the station parts being serviced by the appropriate vehicle type
20:22:24 <dihedral> a truck station connected to a trainstation though no truck ever goes there should not be counted
20:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> what ranking system?
20:23:29 <dihedral> what you call it then?
20:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea what you mean
20:24:05 <dihedral> performance rating :-)
20:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean like "Passengers - Good (53%)"
20:25:45 <dihedral> i mean like in the performance history graph
20:25:57 <dihedral> click on the details button
20:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> elmex: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transport,%204.%20Jun%201965.png - an old station of mine
20:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: and what exactly do you want to do with that now?
20:28:27 <dihedral> i was only suggesting to only count stations that were being used
20:28:38 <elmex> Eddi|zuHause2: that doesn't even use pre-signals
20:28:50 <Ammler> Hello, im having problems with copy&paste (paste password) on my KDE, some others haven't, does someone of you know why?
20:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> they were not really necessary...
20:29:39 <dihedral> as some players build countless bus stops in the middle of nowhere to advance themselves in that rating
20:30:22 <dihedral> so perhaps unused stations can bring a negative to the rating :-P
20:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> elmex: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Johannes%20Transport,%2020.%20Okt%201925.png - a new station of mine
20:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> (although that uses PBS)
20:31:39 <elmex> Eddi|zuHause2: 1925? how to start so early?
20:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's the DBSetXL, it has trains from 1920 (both steam and electric)
20:32:15 <elmex> wow, thats indeed an awesome station
20:32:49 <dihedral> i shall hit the rack
20:33:06 <elmex> how do you come up with those stations? do they just grow by nature and intuitively?
20:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> usually i start with something simple and it grows when i notice bottlenecks
20:34:48 <elmex> do you destruct the cities a lot while building stations?
20:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> after a while you get standard situations, where you just build the same structure over and over again, whith little modifications
20:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> the initial station usually fits next to the city
20:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> but if you expand later, you easily have to destroy a lot of buildings
20:36:14 <elmex> for example Kreuzstadt Hbf, i usually don'tbuild such big stations in the beginning :)
20:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's not exactly the beginning, because i played 5 years with daylength x32
20:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a miniin patch
20:38:06 <elmex> doesnt the city disallow building if you destruct too many buildings?
20:38:15 <elmex> i'm always having problems with that
20:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's "fixed" in a few lines of code :)
20:38:57 <elmex> you patched your ttd to have freehands in building stations? :-)
20:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, basically :)
20:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i think miniin rating handling is buggy, all my ratings were appaling immediately, and did not grow back
20:40:00 <elmex> i still like the challenge in the beginning to gain enough money
20:40:44 <elmex> sometimes the computer even surprises me with profitable routes
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20:45:25 <elmex> heh, it's really interesting to watch multiplayer games. awesome to see what people come up with
20:45:48 *** mikk36[EST] is now known as mikk36
20:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can download the archived games from #openttdcoop, they have insane networks :)
20:56:19 <rane> Eddi|zuHause2: hmm that's a nice idea
20:57:09 <rane> downloading archived games for new ideas
21:03:51 <yeti__> what can i do to make a city grow? deliver passengers, mail and goods to them - anything else?
21:04:29 <Rubidium> depends on the climate
21:04:54 <Rubidium> then that should be everything needed to grow the city
21:05:04 <Cipri> IIRC, having multiple stations in the core really helps. Like set up a local bus route.
21:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> the nightly has a setting for city growth, make sure it is not set to 'none'
21:06:56 <rane> any cool stuff in the nightlies by the way?
21:07:01 <yeti__> "number of towns that will become cities" <- where exactly is the difference?
21:07:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> lots of cool stuff :)
21:07:15 <yeti__> rane: bridges over every kind of track combination, very useful :)
21:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeti__: "cities" are bigger than "towns"
21:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> and grow faster
21:07:29 <Cipri> Selectable Transparancy
21:07:40 <Cipri> ie: Oly transparant trees, or transparant stations.
21:16:53 <yeti__> by the way, what's a good C/C++ development environment for linux? i'd like to get into the ottd code a bit, but it's kinda hard like that: "vim yapf.h - ah, there it calls the function DoSomewhatWithTrain(); grep -r DoSomewhatWithTrain *; vim other_file.c" - what do you guys use?
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21:17:48 <valhallasw> yeti__: I like eclipse
21:17:51 <[Surge]> Can someone help me figure out how to get the "copy and paste " patch into 0.5.1?
21:17:55 <Rubidium> kate + grep or vim + grep or joe + grep
21:18:05 <[Surge]> I'm using Linux so this is from source code.
21:18:52 <[Surge]> It seems that there are missing source files like command_queue which the patch requires. Any ideas?
21:19:14 <yeti__> [Surge]: do you use the right -pX option with patch?
21:19:24 <yeti__> [Surge]: can you point me to the forum thread about that patch?
21:19:30 <[Surge]> I used -p1 as the web site says.
21:19:38 <[Surge]> patch -p1 < patchfile
21:20:02 <Rubidium> [Surge]: what website?
21:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd assume -p1 is for the nightly patch, not the 0.5 patch
21:21:17 <elmex> (etags + vim + grep is also helpful)
21:21:30 <Frostregen> command_queue.c/h are included in the patchfile
21:24:01 * [Surge] goes to read man patch to see what the -p paramater does.
21:24:30 <yeti__> Frostregen: is your distant_join_stations.patch already in trunk?
21:24:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9754 /trunk/src/ (12 files): -Codechange: make classes for all vehicle types, so we can make nicer/better maintainable code, i.e. virtual methods instead of switches.
21:24:41 <Rubidium> it tells patch how much of the path in the patches must be scrubbed of.
21:25:13 <[Surge]> Rubidium: Oh so I obviously wasn't running it in the right dir then.
21:25:19 <Frostregen> yeti__: no, i don't think so
21:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> [Surge]: if the patch file has paths like src/xxx.cpp, and you are already in the src directory, you say -p1, so it removes the first directory from the path
21:26:05 <[Surge]> Ah ok - got it. Thanks for the help. It's patched and compiling now. :)
21:26:10 <yeti__> [Surge]: no, look at the .diff, it has no pathnames, so there's nothing to be stripped. that patch can only be run with -p0 :)
21:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you are in the base directory, you say -p0, so it uses the complete path
21:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> 0.5 uses the old system, where the .c files are in the base directory, so 0.5 patches are usually -p0
21:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> trunk has all source files moved to the src/ directory
21:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you might want to use -p1 there
21:29:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: not really, because when you add files, you need to be in trunk/ not trunk/src when applying the patch
21:30:21 <Frostregen> thats why he wrote *might* ;)
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21:53:27 <yeti__> phew... that pathfinder code is way too complicated for me :)
22:01:02 <yeti__> what is a "Trackdir" supposed to be? track direction? track directory?
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22:04:14 <yeti__> am i right to assume that pathfind.cpp is the old pf, npf.cpp is the new global pathfinder, and yapf/ is (obviously) yapf?
22:05:22 <KUDr> pathfind.cpp contains also ntp
22:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Trackdir" is the 6 possible connections you can build on a tile, plus a direction (forward/backward)
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22:30:29 <elmex> those people in these online games have trains which give 1,000,000 pound with one load
22:30:50 <elmex> crazy, thats all the long distance?
22:32:16 <glx> long distance long coal trains
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22:32:50 <glx> works well with goods too
22:33:04 <elmex> why not with eh. grains ?
22:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> grain looses value very fast...
22:34:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9755 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Codechange: refactor some more of the begin loading stuff.
22:34:58 <elmex> so mail, oil, iron ore, coal and steel are best for long-time runs
22:36:15 <elmex> would be cool to be able to measure how much the value of the cargo was affected by that for a specific track or train
22:43:32 <yeti__> yeah elmex. that one should not be too difficult to program though :)
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22:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> so, why aren't you at work already? :p
22:51:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9756 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#755]: LeaveStation wasn't always called when a station was left.
22:52:00 <elmex> i'm sadly a completly timeless (meaning: without time) free software developer with wayyy too many projects and reallife activities :-/
22:52:15 <elmex> and now that i've found ttd i've even less time
22:52:48 <yeti__> Eddi|zuHause2: i am at work already, but sadly i'm not really a free software developer, i'm more the kind of "i have read a C tutorial once" guy ;)
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23:07:10 <Ailure> oh god what server is that
23:09:07 <Ailure> I had a pircture of a fortres I made in a game
23:09:14 <Ailure> oh god what's up with that 32 bit thread
23:10:12 <Ailure> that's gotta be the first time I laughed seeing a company HQ and a small airport
23:10:20 <Ailure> if I saw that in a game, I would think there was some kind of glitch
23:26:53 <elmex> it's interesting, in the end in multiplayer games everything depends on your skill to lay more-effective routes than others and more effective railroad tracks
23:27:29 <elmex> it's not about whether or whether not make profit - as i initialy thought
23:28:05 <elmex> depends on the license of the .exe
23:28:24 <elmex> and whetehr the orig. datafiles are with it :)
23:28:37 <valhallasw> it's the 0.5.0 installer by the looks of it
23:28:43 <valhallasw> so yes, probably legal
23:30:05 <glx> he should at least have a link to the sources
23:32:12 <elmex> i wonder why the servers are so silent all the time ;-/
23:38:13 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:38:21 <Ailure> Nowadays I hardly play on servers with no newGRF's
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23:43:45 <elmex> does one need those installed to play?
23:44:02 *** Sacro|Mobile is now known as Sacro
23:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> if the server has newgrf files, you need the exact same files in your data folder
23:44:38 <elmex> is ther a way to find out which they use?
23:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> theoretically, it should say that before you connect
23:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> practically, i never tried
23:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> there was talk about a green (=everything ok), yellow (=missing newgrf) and red (= wrong version) indicator next to the server name
23:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> and there should also be a button that says "newgrf"
23:48:12 <Ailure> yellow = wrong/missing newGRF's
23:48:32 <elmex> yes, i often get red with the svn versionn
23:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, the game versions must have an exact match, otherwise it is impossible to keep the game in sync
23:50:14 <Ailure> theortically it should be possible if the code changes isn't related to the game-code :p
23:50:29 <Ailure> but that's too risky to try
23:51:10 <Ailure> I do reember it's possible to load GRF's statically
23:51:29 <Ailure> so you can load graphics only GRF's and still be able to play online no matter the newGRF settings
23:51:52 <mikegrb_> is it possible to bribe town officials when they won't let you build a station?
23:52:14 <elmex> mikegrb_: try planting trees
23:52:36 <Ailure> another note on planting trees
23:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> that station exit looks like a huge bottleneck... even without the trains it is easily visible
23:52:45 <Ailure> I think it only improves rating if you plant trees in empty tiles
23:52:56 <Ailure> so making forests thicker dosen't help
23:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's a single signal block that has to be passed by every train
23:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> that cannot work out
23:53:58 <Frostregen> the 2 leftmost are separate
23:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> behind the power station
23:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a direct connection between the routes
23:54:32 <Frostregen> but the entrance has wrong signals
23:54:49 <Frostregen> ah, behind the smoke...sorry
23:55:13 <elmex> i wonder why the train doesnt use the green way
23:55:21 <elmex> (it's not my station, but i'm curious)
23:55:47 <elmex> with that station his 14,000,000 income went negative within one year.
23:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> big lockups easily extend through the entire network
23:57:11 <elmex> the only way to clear them is to stop all trains and pull them out manually with signal-ignores eh?
23:57:36 <Frostregen> that should never be necessary
23:57:46 <elmex> (so the connection between the out-routes is what makes the signals become red?)
23:58:32 <elmex> Frostregen: is there an alternative?
23:58:52 <Sionide> what server are you guys on?
23:58:53 <Frostregen> avoid everything what allows loops
23:59:14 <elmex> it's sandra-bullock.co.uk-something
23:59:26 <Sionide> what version is it running?
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