IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-04-14
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01:40:50 *** madkeyzb has joined #openttd
01:41:53 <madkeyzb> How come that there's not a suggestion page on the wikis?
01:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> because nobody would check it
01:52:51 <madkeyzb> why would no one check it?
01:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> because the developers cannot look everywhere...
02:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you have a feature request, you're probably better off at bugs.openttd.org, or anything else might be more suited to the forums
02:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> wiki is for documentation, not for discussion
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06:41:45 <Wolf01> peter, i plan to put another widget on the transparency options toolbar, to toggle the memorization of active transparencies, instead of use patch settings, what do you think?
07:00:47 <lolman> Have I missed much in the couple of weeks I've been away? :P
07:01:45 <Wolf01> may be possible to code a "gui creator" to make more simple to create and edit a gui? i'm not good in maths, to sum numbers from 1 to 10 is not a problem, but when i have multiples of 21, 43 etc is hard :D
07:27:41 <Maedhros> Frostregen: NS was removed for a reason - i.e. it causes multiplayer desyncs
07:32:33 <Wolf01> that was an useful feature, if only worked, i think the solution to sync it at game start was not so easy, right?
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09:44:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9622 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs):
09:44:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITownList, which lists all towns (and which you can iterate)
09:44:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITownListValuators, to get, for example, all population of the townlist (see regression-test for example)
09:44:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed AIList to allow Valuators in a simple and safe way (tnx a lot KUDr)
09:44:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Update: updated regression to test above changes
09:44:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: Valuate() of valuators are no longer public (Rubidium)
09:48:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9623 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: some comments to make doxygen happy
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12:08:38 * Wolf01 wonders why is still not possible to rename buoys
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12:46:06 <antichaos> peter1138, will the newcargo stuff mean that where we currently have code like 'if (cargo_type == CT_PASSENGERS)' we will have to do something different?
14:00:28 * mggrant peers at antichaos and wonders if he ever used to play ATITD
14:00:42 *** mggrant is now known as FaceAnkh
14:00:58 <FaceAnkh> how're you doing? :)
14:01:07 <FaceAnkh> hehe, good thanks - currently down in Plymouth :)
14:01:34 <antichaos> I'm good too. RL really caught up with me though :)
14:01:45 * FaceAnkh has a RL job now too and far less playtime, though is still bashing the odd camel
14:01:51 <FaceAnkh> yeah, it does that :/
14:02:03 <FaceAnkh> I hear we get our lives back when we retire ;)
14:02:58 <FaceAnkh> hope it caught up with you in a good way, at least :)
14:03:34 <antichaos> Wife and baby on the way, so yes :)
14:05:21 <FaceAnkh> <TheDude> wow! pass on a congrats :D
14:05:27 * FaceAnkh has to pass that news around ;)
14:06:00 <antichaos> Aw thanks :) I do miss you all sometimes.
14:07:02 <FaceAnkh> still a fair few people lurking around in #atitd if you fancy visiting sometime, but no hurry :)
14:08:55 <FaceAnkh> when is the baby due? :)
14:09:58 <FaceAnkh> still a bit of time to knit socks and stuff then ;)
14:10:36 * Eddi|zuHause2 gives peter1138 aspirin
14:10:51 <antichaos> Just trying to complete a few personal projects before that's all I'm doing ;)
14:11:12 <FaceAnkh> <TheDude> whatever hes up to, im sure its something way above my head (including the wife and baby :P)
14:11:27 * FaceAnkh grins and had to quote that one too :)
14:11:43 <FaceAnkh> great to see you again anyway :)
14:12:37 <antichaos> peter1138 as of now?
14:12:58 <peter1138> antichaos: probably 'if (GetCargo(cargo)->town_effect == TE_PASSENGERS)'
14:13:22 <peter1138> then it'll do it for all cargo types that behave like passengers
14:15:04 <peter1138> or it can be done with classes, heh
14:17:52 <antichaos> Will this allow newhouses to accept/produce new cargos too?
14:18:53 <peter1138> yeah, that can be done already
14:24:13 <rane> is there already a convenient way to upgrade electric trains to monorail?
14:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> there will never be one
14:24:47 *** FaceAnkh is now known as mggrant
14:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> imho: a) just-in-time conversion of an entire network is stupid, b) you should play the game, not have the game play for you, c) with rebalancing stuff, the situation that you want to replace the entire network should not occure anymore
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14:43:40 <rane> yeah, maybe convert the network small parts at time. that'll work!
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15:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz, almost 30°C, the computer does not like this very much
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16:17:24 <Wolf01> i'm still using steam engines in 2030, somebody told me about maglev, but i don't know what is it
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16:19:54 <Wolf01> one thing i would find usefull: autoroute, maybe for little distances, like climbing an hill, which show you a possible layout, maybe you can select between "shortest, realistic, less terraform, etc"
16:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like this will be needed for new rail AI
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17:01:36 <UndernotBuilder> the main reason because I prefer stable releases than nightlies is because there are more servers and more people in the first one
17:02:55 <Wolf01> only because is hard to find 2 same nightlies when not all the people want to update their every night
17:03:27 <UndernotBuilder> maybe if most of we agree to use a standard nightly for mp we can get more players on nightlies servers
17:03:45 <peter1138> laptop not bright enough outside :(
17:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "russian engineering" :)
17:45:06 <HMage> i'd say "russia is too f@#%ing huge to maintain" :)
17:45:34 <HMage> but yeah, hack'n'slash-type engineering is prominent here
17:45:56 <HMage> that's why most things are designed to be idiot-proof in russia
17:47:11 <mggrant> peter1138: get a sony laptop - they have stunningly bright screens
17:47:16 <mggrant> works in direct sunlight forme
17:48:13 <peter1138> this one had the advantage of being free
18:10:17 <mggrant> ah, hard to beat free :)
18:11:43 <peter1138> anyway, i can see it now; the sun's going down
18:11:52 <peter1138> of course, that means it's getting a bit cold...
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18:23:32 <Digitalfox[Home]> peter1138: Using TTRS 3 and openttd last nightly, banks still use old banks grafics, doesn't ttrs 3 replace banks?
18:24:27 <peter1138> but they're industries
18:25:30 <Digitalfox[Home]> So ttrs changes the behavior of banks or just the grafics?
18:25:47 <peter1138> behaviour, presumably
18:26:01 <peter1138> if it was just graPHics it would work
18:26:17 <Digitalfox[Home]> I'll use other newgrf graphics for banks ;)
18:26:44 <Digitalfox[Home]> thanks for explaining ;)
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18:57:28 <Ammler> Why is the front page of the wiki write protected?
18:58:32 <Ammler> because I liked to change the link to the forum
19:07:59 <TrueBrain> Ammler: long long long long LONG ago :)
19:08:22 <Ammler> Then it would be time to open it...
19:08:42 <TrueBrain> you can just ask admins to change what ever you think that hsould be changed :)
19:10:08 <TrueBrain> remember that it is your opinion ;) And I go with glx :)
19:10:32 <Ammler> I fully agree with glx
19:10:46 <Ammler> And why is it not this link?
19:10:54 <TrueBrain> I dunno, it is linked to there overhere
19:11:53 <Ammler> The problem of your paranoia is that nobody can change such little things.
19:14:50 <TrueBrain> Ammler: no, we just do such little changes when ever someone tells us about it.
19:15:26 <Ammler> Is the vandalism still in the histoy?
19:16:31 <UndernotBuilder> I want forum.openttd.org :)
19:17:01 <Ammler> UndernotBuilder: you are to slow....
19:18:09 <UndernotBuilder> wait a moment
19:18:19 <UndernotBuilder> that forum looks familiar to me :P
19:19:31 <Frostregen> good to know... no more scrolling =)
19:19:58 <Ammler> I was wondering why nobody did change the MiniIN page and did it self, later I found out, that it has stopped
19:19:59 <peter1138> i always had c=20 bookmarked...
19:20:17 <UndernotBuilder> but when you return to forums list returns to full tt-forums :S
19:20:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9624 /branches/noai/src/squirrel_std.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: stupid OSX defines 'require' as macro... which sane system does that?!
19:20:31 <Ammler> you need such noobs like me sometimes
19:20:41 <peter1138> UndernotBuilder: dunno, i always just used the back button...
19:24:30 <Ammler> hmm, just checked, the frontpage of wikipedia is also protected
19:25:06 <TrueBrain> you never saw the spam-bots? :)
19:27:11 <Ammler> aha, thats why you use catcha for external links, ok, I understand you now
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19:31:37 <DorpsGek> bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
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19:35:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
19:39:55 <Digitalfox[Home]> Hello Bjarni, are you thinking of adding to autoreplace also the option to chose refit if available, it would very noce for newgrf, like george vehicles v4 or train set's :)
19:40:29 <Bjarni> autoreplace already refits if needed
19:41:07 <Bjarni> autoreplace will never change the type of cargo the vehicle carries as it can cause a lot of problems for the player
19:41:28 <Wolf01> i would like replace only listed vehicles for a station instead of all the vehicles
19:41:50 <Digitalfox[Home]> Well, let's give this example, some trucks have 2 kinds of goods limit, one limit is 50 the other 60, so it will chose the first in list not the max.. I hope you cabn understand my point
19:41:58 <Bjarni> but it's not as easy to code as you might think
19:45:02 <Digitalfox[Home]> I'm not talking about cargo change, but when some vehicles have multi versions for carring the same cargo, let's take a bus where he can carry 33 / 50 / 80 /120 passangersm auto replace will just replace with the standard, and won't give the option to chose..
19:46:13 <peter1138> can you even *imagine* how a GUI to control that would look?
19:47:02 <Digitalfox[Home]> standard i mean default.. Well peter1138 i know it's not a easy think, but for me and also everybody else, it would help a lot the autoreplace nightmare of 380 buses
19:47:28 <peter1138> or just use a sensible vehicle set
19:48:38 <Bjarni> it would be a whole lot of work to make this... too much compared to the benefit compared to the other stuff I should be looking at
19:48:44 <Digitalfox[Home]> peter1138: Even dbsetxl has the same problem, where some engines that can carry mail or passengers you can't chose what theengines should load
19:48:51 <Bjarni> so pick a sane vehicle set
19:49:16 <peter1138> it's just not practical
19:49:28 <Digitalfox[Home]> ok, maybe in a very far future :)
19:49:37 <peter1138> you've gotta play the game at some point
19:49:49 <Bjarni> this is a classic. I add a feature and people go "it could be better".... try to play without autoreplace then :p
19:51:10 <Digitalfox[Home]> Bjarni: I'm not complaining about autoreplace not being a really nice feature, it is a really nice feature, just a little upgrade is what i'm asking, but i understand it would take a lot of work, so just forget it :)
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19:51:33 <Bjarni> "just a little upgrade"...
19:51:52 <peter1138> i can't even imagine how a gui to do it would look
19:52:01 <Bjarni> first you will need to figure out how you want the GUI for it to be, then code it and then write the actual feature
19:52:14 <peter1138> never mind that the refit options change over time
19:53:22 <Bjarni> don't expect this to be coded
19:53:45 <Digitalfox[Home]> I understand. :(
19:53:49 <Bjarni> it's a huge change in the code and near impossible to fix all issues for
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20:01:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9625 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AITileList() and one valuator for now: AITileListBuildable()
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20:17:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truelight * r9626 /branches/noai/ (14 files in 4 dirs):
20:17:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: renamed AIList to AIAbstractList and hide 'AddItem' and 'RemoveItem'
20:17:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: added AIList to work like the old AIList
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20:32:55 <antichaos> hmm, I just tried to register on flyspray and I got some php error messages and no confirmation email :(
20:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the php errors have been there forever, but should not affect the email
20:35:03 <antichaos> ok, maybe it's just taking some time to deliver
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20:37:19 <willister> Anyone here who can give me a hint on the houseSpec struct?
20:37:31 <Maedhros> what do you want to know about it?
20:38:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9627 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (23 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: let the squirrel export script export all needed (and a few more) types of references to structs and classes.
20:38:23 <willister> I'm trying to work out how much passengers a perticular tile will generate. will the byte "population" tell me that?
20:39:15 <Sacro> willister: check the code for the query tool
20:39:45 <peter1138> there's a whole generic function for that
20:40:03 <willister> what file is the query tool code in?
20:40:47 <peter1138> void GetAcceptedCargo(TileIndex tile, AcceptedCargo ac);
20:41:43 <willister> I would guess the query tool is under widget or window
20:42:51 <Maedhros> willister: have a look at line 343 in town_cmd.cpp
20:43:32 <Maedhros> basically, you get a random number, check if it's less than the population, munge it a bit, then use that
20:44:18 <willister> so its not fixed? its random?
20:45:03 <willister> :) I'd expected it some be something like 1/3 or population or something
20:45:21 <willister> ok, my ai will have to make to with estimated passengers
20:48:28 <willister> really like this squirrel addition. Like working on AI's :)
20:51:11 * antichaos is still waiting for his email from flyspray
20:53:06 <willister> Currently trying to bugfix my ai though... The first few seem to work well, but openttd crashes sometime after the 4th :(
20:53:44 <willister> trying to find out when it happens, I'd think it was some array out of bounds error somewhere
20:57:24 <Rubidium> can't you trace it to a single call?
20:57:55 <antichaos> it's arrived. you can all relax now ;)
20:59:05 <willister> not yet, not using any debug tools, I'm just getting it to output text to the debug window, and working out from there :-P
20:59:40 <willister> when I've got all the main functions not being random, then I'll go into it fully
21:00:08 <willister> think I only have 3 functions left that pick random points, and not calculated ones
21:01:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9628 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (14 files):
21:01:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: missing svn:eol-style and svn:keywords
21:01:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: wrong filename for @file comments
21:19:21 <willister> does svn normally take 20-30 min to checkout?
21:20:00 <willister> weird, must be my net
21:23:37 <willister> have to leave it updating overnight
21:23:57 <guru3> or you're checking out too much
21:24:52 <willister> upadating the noai branch
21:57:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9629 /branches/noai/ (48 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Codechange: move the squirrel export functions out of the API header files.
22:16:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9630 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_squirrel.cpp api/squirrel_export.sh): [NoAI] -Codechange: remove now useless define.
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