IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-10-13
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00:19:19 <audigex> andythenorth: Browser: "Hide shorts for YouTube" extension in Firefox works well. Not sure about Safari or Chrome as I don't use them much
00:19:19 <audigex> Phone/tablet: Go into settings and set the limit for shorts to 0 hours and they vanish. Works on iOS/iPadOS, I've not tried it on Android personally
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00:25:46 <kaja1230491> 3D openttd 😄 coming soon 😄
00:31:28 <belajalilija> kaja1230491: huh?
00:31:42 <audigex> Somebody's just bought a Claude subscription, I guess
00:32:09 <belajalilija> i didnt wanna assume ai
00:32:39 <belajalilija> unless they're doing some thing cool with the ps1 version of ttd
00:32:44 <belajalilija> which you know, would actually be cool
00:37:22 <kaja1230491> audigex: yes my first programing language 🙂
00:38:16 <audigex> Well, uhh, good luck. Please don't spam this subreddit with your progress though, it's not for all OpenTTD-related projects and forks etc
00:38:48 <belajalilija> dont call it a subreddit <a:sabrinapuke:1253210495264231435>
00:39:04 <audigex> Also, sorry, spent too much time on Reddit today haha
00:39:04 <belajalilija> also idk if they deleted that or if another mod did
00:40:29 <audigex> User's gone too, so looks like a kick/ban - ragequitters don't delete their messages first
00:41:07 <belajalilija> they still look here to me
00:46:26 <peter1138> > Decouple by Karel Mácha
00:46:58 <belajalilija> is this the guy from before?
00:47:09 <belajalilija> with the fascinating background
00:47:31 <belajalilija> im sure he was kicked or banned
00:47:58 <belajalilija> audigex: i think he had blocked you
00:48:10 <belajalilija> i just kicked him and that made him disappear to me
00:49:10 <belajalilija> even if he isnt the unhinged individual who i think he is it's still the case that nothing was lost
00:49:24 <belajalilija> not to mention that if he really wants to be back he will be, that account was made today
00:49:31 <belajalilija> sure he's capable of making another
00:50:10 <peter1138> Urgh, this secret level is a slaughtermap... not my thing :o
00:54:15 <belajalilija> karel is indeed the individual who i thought, had to check, i know 2 people came here recently with ai about shunting patch
00:55:11 <belajalilija> why cant people just accept they don't have any marketable skills, like me? instead of denying it with ai
00:57:24 <peter1138> The world is busy telling everyone that all development is done with AI now.
00:57:54 <reldred> I accidentally pressed the copilot key on my work laptop yesterday. I was mortified.
01:05:23 <peter1138> Ah no, it's the "we ran out of ideas so every map is now a slaughtermap" :(
01:13:08 <audigex> AI is definitely going to kill *some* development, but definitely not all
01:13:08 <audigex> Nobody's going to vibe code a nuclear power plant's control software
01:13:08 <audigex> But a lot of basic web developers are fucked
01:13:43 <belajalilija> "Nobody's going to vibe code a nuclear power plant's control software"
01:13:54 <belajalilija> maybe not in our country
01:14:16 <belajalilija> but there is a much bigger, sillier country a few hours west of us
01:15:46 <belajalilija> but i guess if it comes from there it wouldnt be vibecoded by artificial intelligence but instead by super intelligence
01:16:36 <squirejames> belajalilija: I accept that I am never going to be able to get my head around making patches for OpenTTD. I've come to terms with that 😄
01:16:53 <belajalilija> you got grfs at least
01:17:08 <squirejames> belajalilija: and east. Who were known for their shall we say relaxed attitude to atomic power safety procedures.
01:17:42 <belajalilija> im more worried about their plague safety procedures these days
01:18:03 <squirejames> belajalilija: Ish. I have done some very basic NFO back in the day to alter intro dates on UKRS, and I can use Timberwolf and Wills templates to bang out some locos with new tenders. It's not as much as i'd like
01:18:31 <belajalilija> still more than me xd
01:19:05 <belajalilija> my marketable skills are really just, i can draw pixels trains for a mid 90s video game and i am good at being mean to the community of said mid 90s videogame
01:19:45 <audigex> *That's totally a transferrable skill, though
01:19:53 <belajalilija> i could work in HR
01:20:46 <squirejames> Oh i'm a whizz with some other games, of almost the same age 😄 (2000, 2001 and 2003 respectively) but, OpenTTD and TTDLX before it have always eluded me somewhat. It's a different sort of coding
01:21:00 <squirejames> but yeah it would be nice if some of it would work in the "Real World tm"
01:33:31 <peter1138> Probably misremembering, but a few years back, maybe longer, someone (or maybe more than one) thought they actually had to write out a patch file manually to do anything.
01:35:07 <peter1138> Just the phrase "making patches" made me think of that.
01:36:31 <belajalilija> i dont remember this so it was probably before my reign of terror
01:37:21 <belajalilija> another day where i am too tired to start drawing but not too tired to code another vehicle into my set
01:37:35 <belajalilija> probably the DR E 44
01:38:56 <peter1138[d]> Seems a lot of work for a few extra colours
01:39:48 <belajalilija> (i am coding a bunch of german 30s vehicles because my grf lacks 30s electrics and they all look like the SBB Be 6/8 II and Ae 4/7 which i love)
01:40:22 <belajalilija> peter1138[d]: does it not conflict with horse/ukrs2/danish trains then?
01:41:55 <belajalilija> im gonna also take the liberty of suggesting names for those colours
01:42:46 <mnhebi> everything is worth it just for black and orange.
01:43:23 <peter1138[d]> belajalilija: Of course
01:43:53 <peter1138[d]> I took the colours from NewCC which doesn't (can't) rename them, so has no names :-)
01:44:04 <belajalilija> peter1138[d]: damn
01:44:46 <belajalilija> belajalilija: Cobalt
01:44:46 <belajalilija> Cherry (or Maroon)
01:45:22 <belajalilija> though i dont like using tangerine because orange is also a fruit of the same colour
01:46:00 <belajalilija> and i assume renaming orange is off the sable
01:47:22 <belajalilija> what i called Tangerine could be called Oxide or if the default Orange is renamed to Sunflower it could then become Orange
01:48:40 <belajalilija> Black could be called Charcoal too just to make it more interesting
01:51:06 <belajalilija> mnhebi: i think the red is really nice too, much better for a lot of old carriages i think
01:52:18 <mnhebi> you are gonna have to be specific, which red? :P
01:52:46 <belajalilija> the one i called Cherry
01:53:22 <belajalilija> i dont think the one i called Salmon really qualifies to be called red tbh
01:54:00 <emperorjake> The original NewCC had a darker red which was really nice, could be maroon or something
01:54:53 <belajalilija> its interesting that adding more colours fucks things up
01:55:02 <belajalilija> i mean, interesting from a non code person perspective
01:55:17 <belajalilija> i woulda thought that each colour had an id and the grfs interacted with that specific id
01:57:40 <belajalilija> maybe it might be worth taking stock of what grfs are actually impacted by this and implementing it anyway (probably with a setting to disable it?)
01:58:48 <belajalilija> i can only think of ukrs2 and danish trains, you pointed out horse
01:59:45 <belajalilija> my set is kinda a successor to danish trains? idk how 2TT feels about that, iron horse has active development and there's someone working on a fork of ukrs2
02:00:45 <belajalilija> i also recall it fucking with rukts but a replacement for that is being worked on by the same people too
02:01:54 <belajalilija> oh these looks nice
02:03:27 <peter1138[d]> Fudging it breaks that one weird set that uses different graphics that depend on the company colour.
02:06:21 <peter1138[d]> And also the random shaded versions of Iron Horse wagons
02:12:19 <kaibaneddy> peter1138[d]: My old 4x pineapple trains grf did that - tbh it's breakable, I doubt anyone uses it
02:12:49 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, that's the one weird set :-)
02:13:25 <peter1138[d]> Still, Iron Horse is quite popular.
02:14:50 <reldred> I mean you can disable the fading, and I’m sure Andy would eventually add the faded variants for them
02:15:15 <reldred> peter1138[d]: That’s gorgeous
02:16:02 <peter1138[d]> Not possible with the current spec, there's 1) only space to represent 16 colours + 16 colours 2) there's no way to know what colour is what.
02:17:09 <peter1138[d]> If it was just random shades it would be fine, but because it's random shades of the company colour... nope.
02:20:30 <kaibaneddy> Tbh the 'correct' way to do variable wagon shades would be to use 32bpp and vary the underlying sprite. Then it would work with whatever newgrf, extended, or rgb cc...
02:22:20 <reldred> Maybe that can be an extension for grf authors on top of RGB/HSLCC
02:22:46 <reldred> I say, as someone who will have to do precisely zero work on such a task
02:23:11 <peter1138[d]> I basically ignored it for the rgb/hslcc patch too.
02:24:04 <reldred> Maybe each colour you pick in hslcc then creates a one up one down to create a triplet for each 'shade'
02:24:23 <reldred> that can then be referenced by a grf
02:25:28 <reldred> but then is it just luminosity or hue as well blah blah blah
02:26:04 <kaibaneddy> Callback to bend the hsl, job done 😉
02:26:14 <peter1138[d]> Well, there is no real advantage to this change over the RGB/HSLCC change, tbh
02:26:50 <peter1138[d]> This is creating palettes on demand as well.
02:26:52 <reldred> I imagine this approach of just adding more colours would probably appease some of the loudest critics of HSLCC
02:27:03 <reldred> Most of whom needed to stfu anyway but eh
02:27:14 <reldred> Either approach looks quite nice to me
02:27:21 <peter1138[d]> The original remaps and the 2cc remaps are all basically ignored,
02:30:27 <belajalilija> reldred: i thought i was the only one xd
02:30:52 <belajalilija> and i think my criticism was that it wasnt RGB
02:31:20 <reldred> HSL in actual practice is more intuitive to use
02:31:28 <reldred> But RGB is more familiar to people
02:31:45 <belajalilija> yeah i was gonna say i am in no way familiar with HSL
02:32:03 <reldred> I mean it's what Photoshop/GIMP etc. use when doing colour adjustments
02:32:16 <reldred> So I'm pretty sure you've run into it at *some point*
02:32:22 <belajalilija> i use photoshop but i musta set it to RGB or something
02:32:51 <belajalilija> maybe i just ignore the hsl then
02:33:00 <reldred> picking colours using an RGB code is fine, but when you go into the tools for doing colour grading type work it's HSL
02:33:43 <reldred> similar tool in photoshop
02:34:09 <reldred> It's important because you can change the colour without changing the brightness or the saturation
02:34:24 <belajalilija> yeah its there but i always ignored it
02:34:34 <reldred> Yeah some colour picker tools have both
02:35:03 <reldred> I wouldn't use HSL on the colour picker myself but if doing adjustments whether global or local with masks I'd use HSL
02:36:11 <belajalilija> colour happens when i see numbers, more numbers is more colour, a real lot of numbers is white
02:38:47 <belajalilija> i get that HSL is like "pick a colour, pick how coloury you want it and pick the darkness" but i dont vibe with it
02:40:27 <belajalilija> ig HSL is kinda like working with paint and RGB is like working with light
02:41:19 <reldred> Well, HSL makes it easier to pick for instance a bright pastel colour by moving individual values. Whereas a lot of adjustments in RGB have to be done by hand by moving three seperate values in a given direction. It's hard to fine tune
02:42:08 <reldred> Or you already have a colour but you want to shift it by a predictable amount
02:42:43 <peter1138[d]> The first iteration of the UI was indeed RGB, and it did indeed suck trying to pick a colour.
02:43:01 <reldred> Yeah, it's fine if you already know the values you want to punch in
02:43:02 <peter1138[d]> I didn't switch to HSL just on a whim.
02:43:06 <belajalilija> okay yeah i can see why HSL would be better for this
02:43:39 <belajalilija> reldred: yeah this was the mindset i was approaching it with
02:44:30 <reldred> another case would be 'this 2cc stripe on my vehicles doesn't pop enough', cool, move just the luminosity while keeping the hue and saturation fixed.
02:44:39 <belajalilija> im used to working with RGB so i would be able to pick the colours from my custom palette i use for my grf and then put them onto 2cc vehicles in game, was basically my thought process
02:45:48 <belajalilija> so yeah no, i 100% get why HSL is good for this
02:46:08 <reldred> there we go belaya is happy you can merge it now peter 😛
02:46:19 <belajalilija> there must have been others
02:46:41 <reldred> most of the other complaints were from absolute crayon eaters
02:47:05 <reldred> i don't even want to validate their opinions by summarising them
02:47:25 <peter1138[d]> But you might pick an ugly colour
02:47:55 <reldred> but you might pick the same colour as a competitor in mp even if you can already do that with group/custom liveries
02:48:27 <belajalilija> ugly colour concerns are silly
02:48:35 <belajalilija> ½ the default colours are ugly
02:48:37 <reldred> wont somebody PLEASE think of the open tee tee dee co op community
02:48:55 <reldred> sooks and bed wetters
02:49:25 <belajalilija> if anything HSLCC would let me not use ugly colours when i am late to a game and red/orange/green/white are accounted for
02:49:59 <reldred> I just dont play multiplayer, solves that problem.
02:50:14 <belajalilija> cream, pink, brown and i think even yellow are pretty ugly
02:50:35 <reldred> Green and yellow or green and white are my favorites
02:50:43 <reldred> I would very much like black though
02:50:48 <belajalilija> i use orange if i want something to look yellow
02:50:52 <belajalilija> i mean of ttdlx colours
02:51:11 <belajalilija> both ttdlx pink and yellow feel like they've been in the washing machine 500 times without a colour catcher
02:51:13 <reldred> the yellow is more a gold
02:51:22 <reldred> well, it is on my monitors
02:51:29 <reldred> It pops good for stripes
02:54:24 <belajalilija> its (yellow) certainly nicer on my monitor than it is on old CRTs and old laptops
02:54:55 <belajalilija> i remember the yellow looking a bit sickly on those
02:55:39 <belajalilija> pink is still bad tho
02:55:44 <reldred> Yeah I only use it fro stripes
02:55:44 <belajalilija> and cream was never cream
02:57:03 <belajalilija> would be nice if pink was more like this pink
02:57:16 <reldred> The cream is more a custard colour
02:57:43 <belajalilija> what type of custard are you eating?
02:58:02 <belajalilija> ig if it had to be custard it would be tubby custard
02:58:25 <reldred> yeah depends on the custard, the custard in my tart this morning was a bit more fluro yellow colour
02:58:36 <reldred> but it did have cinnamon on top
02:58:54 <belajalilija> yeah im used to custard looking yellow
02:59:05 <belajalilija> not like liquid flesh
02:59:52 <belajalilija> whats even the name for like a white yellow
03:06:01 <reldred> i do need to do some playing with it at some stage for my pineapple landscape shenanigans
03:06:09 <reldred> just sliiightly tweak vanilla placements
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03:08:04 <belajalilija> im coding the E 44 now
03:09:03 <reldred> im updating all my ragin grfs
03:09:25 <reldred> I was only 18 commits behind, she really has been touching grass this last month or two
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06:01:01 <kuhnovic> Such colorful conversation
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06:46:19 <_zephyris> Treeeees looks very powerful, I like!
07:42:55 <reldred> what is the canonical number of e's in treeeeeees? i thought it was seven.
07:43:12 <reldred> i should check the pr
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07:58:03 <peter1138> Hmm, anyway, when NewGRF asks what colours will be used, it gets the company default colours, not the colours that will be applied to the engine.
07:59:22 <peter1138> Which is not wrong.
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08:58:33 <kaibaneddy> really? I thought it got the colours applied to the vehicle...
08:58:58 <kaibaneddy> eg if it's recoloured through a group
08:59:42 <peter1138> You are right, I misread that flow :(
09:00:04 <peter1138> It uses the default livery only if it didn't look one up, oops.
09:00:26 <peter1138> I missed that because in this branch it's bastardised.
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10:50:01 <andythenorth> stuff like Horse complementary colour selection could be ported
10:50:09 <andythenorth> but only if the actual colours are known 😛
10:53:26 <reldred> Yeah a HSLCC based method I think would need some in-engine way of determining those complementary colours, the faded varations, etc. and supplying them to a .grf
10:54:51 <reldred> that said, that might also be nice for building sets etc. without having to do the current nonsense you're doing in horse 😛
11:12:36 <peter1138> Might've been mentioned, but might be easier to do the colour shading as 32bpp overlays.
11:13:00 <peter1138> Rather than trying to generate custom recolour palettes on demand.
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11:25:20 * peter1138 looks at the numbers.
11:49:04 <peter1138> Probably need to mute notifications :D
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12:00:31 <andythenorth> I just like the game of doing it with the 8 bit palette
12:00:42 <andythenorth> some of the combinations are interestingly bad
12:01:37 <andythenorth> the other route is quite straightforward, it's would be easiest using some tint/shade algorithm, that's how I was doing it in css compilers
12:02:31 <andythenorth> spritelayer based colour matrix transform, rather than actually overlays? 😛
12:07:02 <peter1138> The only "transform" you can do is alpha.
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12:18:08 <sidiqbagussangka> Does anyone have a example for a diagonal sprite of a double head flat nose hood unit engine
12:29:04 <emperorjake> You want Discord channel #add-on-development
12:29:42 <emperorjake> post a pic there of the loco you're trying to draw
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13:30:20 <andythenorth> hmm, does 32bpp have recolour sprites?
13:36:06 <belajalilija> andythenorth: One would assume you could
13:36:42 <belajalilija> All the sprites i draw are basically 8bpp
13:37:08 <belajalilija> Ignoring lights and some darker and lighter shades of grey
13:38:32 <belajalilija> 8bpp in that the colours have the same rgb values
13:43:31 <sidiqbagussangka> Well, I planned to put it on addon development once I make several engine and carriages and looking for a coder
13:59:17 <belajalilija> sidiqbagussangka: This channel has nothing to do with what you’re talking about
13:59:31 <belajalilija> You need Discord channel #add-on-development
14:03:34 <mnhebi> andythenorth: I usually just go through stuff like a elephant in a china shop till I figure things out.
14:13:38 <brickblock19280> andythenorth: No
14:42:11 <andythenorth> can we use SDL? 😛
14:42:29 <andythenorth> an RGB colour modification matrix or something? 😛
14:42:52 <andythenorth> I've never done anything at this layer of graphics pipelines, I might be smoking crack again
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15:41:14 <belajalilija> andythenorth: Idk if it would help you but i use a website to get different shades of colours for my vehicles, you input one and it outputs more colours with a custom % difference
15:41:54 <belajalilija> I use 15% but thats a bit less than vanilla, maybe 17 or 18 would be good
15:43:49 <belajalilija> I could probably adjust the difference but idk if anyone has used “wrong” colours in the grf
15:51:05 <brickblock19280> you two are talking about unrelated things
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16:13:24 <andythenorth> I am talking about the game having shaders / colour transformers added, with the configuration exposed to grf
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16:16:27 <andythenorth> programming 32bpp colour transforms in the grf compile would be trivial, but expensive on sprites; all the Horse recolours use recolour sprites, otherwise the grf would be huge
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18:04:07 <peter1138> 68 new followers :o
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19:54:02 <rito12_13> andythenorth: That would run on GPU?
19:54:29 <squirejames> andythenorth: I have brought this up before, a la OpenXCOM etc
19:54:44 <squirejames> No-one seemed to know how doable or not doable it was so, *shrug*
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20:18:15 <peter1138> Magical palette transforms other than remaps, possible.
20:34:50 <andythenorth> it wasn't a request, more of a "we could probably..." 🙂
21:10:54 <tony_pixel> andythenorth: somehow this picture comes to mind
21:11:31 <andythenorth> pretty much I do look like the dude on the right
21:14:18 <peter1138> 97 horsepower omnibus?
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21:29:05 <tony_pixel> huh, Black still fails even though I specifically checked if it produces diff and forcepushed afterwards
21:52:54 <tony_pixel> verbosecodesviaGitHu: oh, so I am not completely wasted yet, it wasn't closed when I commented
21:56:27 <tony_pixel> github devs don't even try to fix anything anymore, they just look at you like this
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