IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-10-05
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07:28:07 <peter1138> NewGRF can be a bit of a pain.
07:30:18 <peter1138> There are substitute-based and class-label-based paradigms. Houses, industries and airports use the former. Stations, objects and road stops use the latter.
07:32:40 <peter1138> Substitute stuff is allegedly able to fallback to defaults if a NewGRF is removed, but this doesn't really work. This system can be used to disable original houses, industries and airports, though.
07:34:03 <peter1138> Class-label stuff can only fallback to one original type (transmitters, or default stations/roadstops), and cannot disable original stuff.
07:35:04 <peter1138> Houses not being class-label-based is why the picker categorises by town zone instead of something author-defined.
07:35:46 <peter1138> Airports do actually have class-labels, but they are hardcoded on the original airports and can't actually be created (or even changed) by NewGRFs.
07:38:06 <peter1138> For trees, it's currently substitute-based so original trees can be goned, but for the picker UI it wants to be class-label-based.
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09:54:45 <LordAro> 08:28:07 <@peter1138> NewGRF can be a bit of a pain.
09:54:48 <LordAro> you should get that framed
10:08:28 <peter1138> NML has a "first" attribute which indicates the property must be set first, because it spits out the properties in the order they are written.
10:08:59 <peter1138> substitute needs to be first, and so does class label. Neither can both be first though :-)
10:10:05 <peter1138> Anyway, it's not idempotent so the order matters, OpenTTD will happily do the wrong thing if it comes in a strange order.
10:34:48 <jfkuayue> despite the constant negative lunch
10:35:54 <reldred> positive lunch is needed
10:36:12 <reldred> i should eat something but i had a big late lunch/early dinner already
10:44:59 <peter1138> I've upset the sloperators.
10:52:11 <reldred> sloperators sloperating sloperationally
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12:44:34 <peter1138> Hmm, second one sounds like a new language/variant request.
12:46:26 <squirejames> reldred: smooth sloperator?
12:58:27 <peter1138> We have a Belurusian translation already, 93% complete.
13:01:18 <LordAro> yeah, first one was auto closed due to modifying the template
13:01:35 <LordAro> second one appears to be proposing some variant of Belurusian?
13:05:58 <LordAro> i'm not sure it's something we could sensibly support without a suitable ISO code
13:06:15 <LordAro> if i've understood correctly, it's just a writing variant rather than a language variant
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14:20:22 <Rubidium> it kinda sounds like Nynorsk vs Bokmal (or I'm horribly mistaken)
14:26:06 <LordAro> possibly, but i can find very little mention of Narkamauka elsewhere
14:42:25 <tony_pixel> From what I can gather from the Ukrainian wikipedia, it's just a writing variant, not a separate language
14:43:20 <tony_pixel> If you have Belarusian already, then it will be similar to Nynorsk vs Bokmål
14:44:16 <tony_pixel> The problem is, is the current Belarusian translation in that variant already?
14:44:48 <LordAro> you're welcome to comment on the issue if you have more information than us :)
14:50:02 <belajalilija> tony_pixel: Kinda yeah
14:50:48 <belajalilija> I think it’s mostly a writing difference but also areas with different dialects prioritise one or the other i think
14:51:05 <belajalilija> Having lived in Sweden you’ll have experienced the dialects too
14:51:55 <tony_pixel> It's a hard situation there with Lukash and all
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15:04:47 <tony_pixel> mdoftwink: welcome!
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15:05:11 <mdoftwink> Hey! Just a minute, please....
15:06:12 <tony_pixel> I invite you to read some of my previous messages in this channel and point out if I'm right or wrong about the situation with current and proposed translation
15:06:22 <tony_pixel> Whenever you're comfortable of course
15:09:02 <peter1138> Apparently since 1995, Russian is the dominant language. Of course, Russia would say that ;-)
15:17:22 <mdoftwink> I'd like to clarify the Belarusian localization situation.
15:17:22 <mdoftwink> Belarusian has two commonly used orthographic standards: the official/modern Belarusian orthography (наркамаўка) and the classical orthography (тарашкевіца).
15:17:22 <mdoftwink> As far as I can tell, the current Belarusian localization in OpenTTD uses the classical/Taraškievica orthography, which is not the official orthographic standard used by the Belarusian state.
15:17:22 <mdoftwink> I'd like to contribute a Belarusian localization using the modern official orthography (наркамаўка). So this wouldn't simply be replacing or correcting the existing translation — it would be a separate orthographic variant.
15:17:22 <mdoftwink> The tricky part is naming the two variants, since "be"/"be-BY" doesn't distinguish between them. I'm happy to follow whatever naming convention OpenTTD considers appropriate.
15:22:07 <peter1138> This is maybe a contentious issue, but do we need both? If the existing version is not particularly relevant would it work to replace it.
15:23:22 <peter1138> On the other hand, the translation is receiving some updates, so it's obviously not considered abandonned by whoever is translating it.
15:25:34 <belajalilija> For what my opinion is worth, i don’t think it is harmful to have both
15:26:09 <belajalilija> It’s better to accommodate more people
15:26:49 <belajalilija> US, UK, Auz and even Canadian and New Zealand English variants are quite commonly accepted
15:27:10 <belajalilija> Even though we all understand each other just fine
15:27:35 <Flygon> I mean, sometimes I have to annunciate clearly hahaha
15:27:59 <belajalilija> Being from Yorkshire i can relate xd
15:29:05 <belajalilija> A Yorkshire translation of the game would go so hard
15:29:08 <mdoftwink> belajalilija: Exactly! That's pretty much how I see it too.
15:29:08 <mdoftwink> Both Belarusian variants are understandable to Belarusian speakers, but they have noticeable differences in spelling and some vocabulary. Having both would simply let people choose the variant they're more comfortable with.
15:29:08 <mdoftwink> And if OpenTTD already accommodates different English variants, I don't see why Belarusian couldn't have the same approach 🙂
15:30:29 <belajalilija> belajalilija: Have it written in the most thick dialect that no one has even spoken since the 70s
15:32:27 <mnhebi> does the game have a old English translation yet? :p
15:33:36 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 40 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey)
15:34:09 <belajalilija> mnhebi: Kinda just Yorkshire xd
15:35:35 <LordAro> trouble is there doesn't appear to be an ISO code for said system, so i'm not sure how it's supposed to be categorised
15:35:48 <LordAro> i'm assuming it's not ru-BY
15:36:00 <mdoftwink> belajalilija: at this rate, OpenTTD is turning into Minecraft with all these language variants xd
15:36:13 <squirejames> belajalilija: Smoggie translation when 😛
15:36:55 <peter1138> LordAro, funnily enough... it might be.
15:37:16 <belajalilija> squirejames: That’s just Yorkshire but with spitting and swearing smh
15:37:43 <peter1138> I think ru-BY might just be Russian though.
15:38:26 <peter1138> Mmm, so probably not the one to use.
15:42:07 <_jgr_> I don't think this will increase the odds of your request being accepted
15:43:12 <LordAro> communicating with words rather than memes would be best
15:43:13 <peter1138> Eh, I'm not even against the idea, just trying to find information.
15:44:07 <mnhebi> belajalilija: pretty sure Yorkshire accent doesn't sound like a drunk dane with a hot potato in their mouth trying to speak English.
15:50:06 <audigex> Those dialects are definitely dying away now
15:50:06 <audigex> As a kid ~30 years ago, loads of older fellas would speak more like that (in Cumbria, so similar but not identical to that one), but as they've died it's much rarer
15:50:06 <audigex> The accents still exist but the dialects are rapidly vanishing
15:50:23 <_glx_> peter1138: yeah it's russian, so not the correct one 🙂
15:50:29 <mnhebi> I haven't any trouble keeping up with that old gent.
15:50:36 <audigex> Most of that is accent, not dialect
15:50:37 <mnhebi> unlike with the friggin Scottish
15:51:00 <audigex> Scots still has more dialect which is why you'll struggle with it more
15:51:34 <squirejames> I mean I am from Stoke so I can hardly judge "unintelligible dialects"
15:51:45 <audigex> I'd also add that he's toned his accent down a LOT to talk to the camera/demonstrate it. When those old fellas talk fast even I'd struggle to understand it as a local
15:52:38 <audigex> mnhebi: Even the section 1:12 to 1:29? I'd be surprised if you could really follow that closely without the subtitles unless you're Northern English
15:52:51 <audigex> And even that's slowed down
15:53:32 <LordAro> but yeah, very rare to find someone speaking with remotely that strong of an accent these days
15:56:10 <belajalilija> audigex: Yeah i can’t emphasise this enough
15:56:25 <belajalilija> It’s not something we do consciously
15:57:21 <belajalilija> I do get caught out when i think I’m around locals and basically drop half the vowels and consonants from my speech and they just stare at me
15:57:54 <LordAro> <insert Hot Fuzz scene here>
15:58:35 <belajalilija> My dialect isn’t even strong to begin with but i come from a village on the edge of the Yorkshire moors so it’s still there xd
15:59:04 <squirejames> LordAro: I mean we do have a set called NARP :p
16:00:11 <belajalilija> belajalilija: Even if you go to a pub in like
16:00:28 <belajalilija> Or somewhere like that
16:00:37 <belajalilija> The olds speak way different there
16:11:31 <audigex> mnhebi: Surprised by that, he's using a lot of dialect words. Where are you from?
16:14:52 <peter1138[d]> Description: Belarusian in Taraskievica orthography
16:14:52 <peter1138[d]> Added: 2007-04-27
16:14:53 <peter1138[d]> Comments: The subtag represents Branislau Taraskievic's Belarusian
16:14:53 <peter1138[d]> orthography as published in "Bielaruski klasycny pravapis" by Juras
16:14:53 <mnhebi> guy speaks in an alright pace, and pronounces clearly
16:14:55 <peter1138[d]> Buslakou, Vincuk Viacorka, Zmicier Sanko, and Zmicier Sauka (Vilnia-
16:14:57 <mnhebi> so it is easy to keep up
16:15:28 <belajalilija> Yeah I’m surprised you even get it tbh
16:15:37 <belajalilija> But it could be your exposure to Swedish
16:15:44 <mnhebi> mate, I've been watching English tv shows since I was friggin 4
16:15:57 <peter1138> So "subtag" "tarask" appears to be something for the existing translation?
16:15:57 <belajalilija> Ahh that will help too yeah
16:15:59 <mnhebi> and I don't understand a friggin word of Swedish, nor speak it
16:16:18 <mnhebi> my brain always gets confused cause Swedish and English share words.
16:16:23 <mnhebi> so I never learned Swedish
16:16:29 <mnhebi> since I learned English first
16:16:38 <mnhebi> I was fully proficient in English before I turned 5.
16:16:44 <mnhebi> I had a English accent when I was a little kid
16:16:46 <mdoftwink> peter1138[d]: my god
16:16:53 <mnhebi> 10/10 for my English on first day of class.
16:17:11 <belajalilija> Was just saying it because i find certain aspects of Danish quite similar to my dialect of English where they’re not similar to standard English
16:18:40 <belajalilija> Fx the dialect word for jump is lowp
16:18:53 <belajalilija> Which is very similar to Danish løb for running
16:19:00 <mnhebi> similar reason why I can never understand Estonian cause its a bastard child of Swedish, Finnish, Germanic, Russian etc..
16:19:04 <belajalilija> I imagine they share etymological roots
16:20:17 <belajalilija> Yeah it’s always been cool too me that for the most part Estonian and Finnish are both very isolated
16:20:36 <belajalilija> I think the closest other language in Europe is like Hungarian or something
16:20:42 <mnhebi> (tho, realistically speaking the root language for modern Estonian was actually established before the Finnish language ever was)
16:21:25 <mnhebi> yes Finno-Ugric language family
16:22:40 <mnhebi> both languages have a origin from somewhere around where Sarmatia was I think.
16:22:49 <mnhebi> or was it closer to Siberia
16:23:03 <mnhebi> been too long since I looked up the ancient origins of both the Finnish and Hungarian peoples
16:28:51 <peter1138> Is it Minecraft time?
16:29:58 <andythenorth> my older child thinks it's always minecraft time
16:30:05 <peter1138> I should invest in some beeswax, my copper golems have frozen.
16:30:05 <andythenorth> for at least the last 12 years
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16:46:35 <jfkuayue> When i played minecraft i didnt want to throw away dirt blocks
16:46:54 <jfkuayue> "not a renewable item"
16:48:52 <belajalilija> Minecraft is great, the very concept of a 3D sandbox that one can interact with is frankly something that i think should exist by default on computers
16:49:08 <belajalilija> Just like MS Paint and Wordpad
16:50:03 <belajalilija> The basic concept of Minecraft is really just one of the most human types of game ideas to exist
16:50:04 <peter1138> jfkuayue, keep everything. Spend resources making a huge automatic sorting system, but never throw away a block.
16:51:48 <jfkuayue> *a whole house of boxed of dirt blocks*
17:45:11 <peter1138> Hmm, surprised you can't edit the authors from the web interface.
18:20:24 <squirejames> belajalilija: Its the only game that gives me the same feeling in my head as Lego. Even the actual lego creator type games didn't do that
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20:47:29 <belajalilija> You can’t fit docks in a pond
20:55:56 <peter1138> 2019 -> 2026, no problem.
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21:50:53 <peter1138> Of course, at this point it's basically due a rewrite anyway.
21:51:09 <peter1138> Probably ought to finish trees first :-)
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