IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-05-16
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06:46:39 <andythenorth> Did I break bananas?
06:48:58 <reldred> noone can tell me off for only having my shit on github lately then lmao
07:17:41 <peter1138> Hmm, need to get bike out.
07:17:47 <peter1138> Missed the 8am ride.
07:18:25 <peter1138> Mainly cos nobody else signed up (most are still in Majorca)
10:15:47 <fairyflossy> Curiosity question, how difficult would it be to implement a 'run around train' order for trains in some form? Having trains not able to magic-flip is cool and building wyes to accomodate it is interesting but it does make me wish for a simple "move the locomotive to the other end of the train" option, either by physically detaching it and moving it around or as a kind of 'ordered magic flip' that
10:15:47 <fairyflossy> takes some time to occur
10:22:08 <will_marshall_> Very, very, very hard?
10:22:46 <will_marshall_> A few month's full time work for one very skilled person?
10:26:04 <mmtunligit> if youre doing a run around type of thing you may as well just do full shuting
10:26:19 <mmtunligit> half measures feel insanely shortsighted to me
11:05:20 <andythenorth> it's a fair question, but it's basically what some people mean by 'shunting',
11:06:00 <andythenorth> and has all the problems of shunting, which is that attaching/detaching things outside of depots is like throwing a lit match into a box of fireworks.
11:07:19 <andythenorth> probably reduces the scope a bit though, because it's not arbitrary reshuffling of vehicles, and not changing / merging / demerging order sets
11:30:43 <fairyflossy> The scope reduction is part of why I'm asking about running around specifically, in that it at least keeps things restricted to just one consist, rather than creating entirely new consists, putting things together, or leaving things behind. Sure, I'd love full shunting, but I get that that's a big can of worms, and I feel like a smaller "Order that flips the train in a nicer way" would be a nice
11:30:43 <fairyflossy> intermediary thing, even if it doesn't visually cause the locomotive to detach and run around.
11:30:43 <fairyflossy> But I don't know the code base so I wanted to know how much "Just flip locomotive location" is "If we make this work we might as well do full shunting" versus "This is actually more feasible to implement"
11:35:24 <mmtunligit> yeah youre probably right
11:35:58 <mmtunligit> ive worried however it ended up implemented would get in the way of full shunting but thinking deeper on it im not so sure anymore
11:41:50 <fairyflossy> Speaking without knowledge of the codebase makes me think that if you make the physically disconnect you might as well do full shunting, but if its like a delayed magic flip with extra that could be implemented independently of shunting
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13:19:42 <peter1138> The main problem with allowing the engine to be detached and reattached somewhere else is the NewGRF spec is basically designed around the idea of a fixed, constant, lead engine.
13:20:44 <peter1138> The work 2talltyler did does not break (nor change) that design.
13:54:22 <_glx_> yeah I can easily imagine what would happen to wagons using info from engine to determine how they should be drawn
13:54:42 <will_marshall_> well that's a BAD FEATURE so really the newgrf author had it coming
13:57:30 <andythenorth> Engine random bits says hi
13:57:50 <will_marshall_> vehicle random bits asking if they're a joke to you.
14:01:24 <rito12_13> What if the engine was still at the front but drawn at the back, would that break less things
14:03:55 <mmtunligit> the only option i see with that is the state of a train car essentially being "frozen" outside of a depot, aside from cargo refit
14:04:14 <will_marshall_> "the engine" already an assumption too far
14:06:02 <will_marshall_> i think jiggling consists outside of depots is doable but i'm only barely progressing my prototype because i have too much real life admin to do to get into a flow state
14:06:22 <will_marshall_> flipping articulated vehicles works, i can clean that up for a draft PR soon
14:06:33 <peter1138> We can probably fudge what wagons see as the lead engine. But, complications.
14:07:13 <will_marshall_> it's all complications. spare a thought for whoever has to work out what to do with the Template Replacement patch (disallow it for vehicles with shunting orders?)
14:07:40 <peter1138> Well no, we don't have to care about things that haven't been merged.
14:07:56 <will_marshall_> I know, that's why I'm sparing a thought for JGR 🙂
14:08:10 <peter1138> THat's not our problem. There's plenty of opportunity for things to be upstreamed.
14:09:50 <peter1138> Of course, they may end up different, e.g. bridges over stations.
14:10:39 <_jgr_> will_marshall_: No need to worry about me, I'll deal with my own stuff in due course
14:11:54 <will_marshall_> Figure you wouldn't be responsible for maintaining the patchpack if you didn't enjoy doing it.
14:13:47 <peter1138> (And by "not our problem" I don't mean to sound actively hostile either)
14:16:04 <will_marshall_> No it's a familiar phrase to me, even as a programmer in recovery from many years of "other team's mistakes are actually your problem, forever"
14:29:12 <audigex> andythenorth: I've been saying for a while that "shunting" is really 2-3 separate things logically
14:29:13 <audigex> 1. Split/merge diagrams (which would probably include banking?)
14:29:13 <audigex> 2. Wagon/yard shunting
14:29:13 <audigex> 3. Same-train shuffles eg running around
14:29:42 <audigex> They all get merged together because they all involve some similar "separate/combine trains" logic, but they aren't a 1:1:1 overlap of the functionality needed
14:32:05 <talltyler> Moving to some sort of consist object that stores the random bits and other info currently stored in the head engine, and passing that info to GRFs seems like it would help with the current assumptions.
14:42:39 <peter1138> I do keep looking at my patch for that, and then get sidetracked going way out of scope.
14:44:17 <peter1138> I'm also looking at my invite-code ideas.
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17:40:58 <andythenorth> is the cargo limit 128 now? 👀
17:47:13 <peter1138> Is there an entry in the commit log that suggests this?
17:48:00 <andythenorth> I think I hallucinated it
17:48:20 <andythenorth> send me more inference tokens, I'll try to be more accurate
17:48:44 <andythenorth> salmon: 1 day out of date
17:48:51 <andythenorth> chicken: 4 days out of date
17:48:55 <andythenorth> both smell fine??
17:50:12 <peter1138> Maybe you have Covid.
17:51:29 <peter1138> Might also explain the brain-fog.
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18:28:21 <andythenorth> I think I always had brain fog
18:28:27 <andythenorth> but I'm not sure
22:39:15 <_zephyris> Thought I'd crack out a test after some serious brain fog this week, it's the 'vid... 😷
22:39:57 <talltyler> Oof, sorry to hear that. Never fun.
23:23:25 <belajalilija> _zephyris: That’s so spring 2020
23:23:34 <belajalilija> Hope you get better tho
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