IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-04-20
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01:42:57 <audigex> I just realised I haven't checked how long it takes on my MacBook
01:42:57 <audigex> I don't normally build the game (I find CMAKE annoying as shit on Windows) but I'm on Mac more these days and building is easier on *NIX IIRC
01:43:13 <audigex> 45% in 2 minutes but I don't think it's linear right?
01:46:38 <audigex> Never mind she moved and I missed the end haha
01:46:38 <audigex> How do you reset CMAKE to a clean build?
01:48:02 <audigex> Looks like -B flag? I'll try again
01:48:02 <audigex> First time I've ever actually built the game I think, I got so frustrated with CMAKE that I gave up last time I tried
01:56:34 <audigex> 8:30 with the -B flag
01:56:34 <audigex> M5 MacBook Air although I assume the Pro etc would be the same because tempts didn't get over 65C and so nowhere near thermal throttling
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03:15:16 <audigex> Makes some sense now that Steam and GOG aren't options for people who want auto-updates, I think
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05:29:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
05:29:39 <andythenorth> audigex: Release build, with ARM only flags, and -j 32 takes about 1 minute ish on M4
05:39:02 <rito12_13> audigex: Maybe it could allow to install JGRPP and CM in the same place?
05:47:26 <andythenorth> ```[100%] Built target openttd_test
05:47:26 <andythenorth> make -j 32 461.79s user 48.77s system 1031% cpu 49.486 total```
05:47:34 <andythenorth> from clean, but not includng cmake
05:47:55 <andythenorth> flags: ```cmake .. -DCMAKE_OSX_ARCHITECTURES=arm64 -DVCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET=arm64-osx -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=../vcpkg/scripts/buildsystems/vcpkg.cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release```
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07:38:42 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 16 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey)
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07:53:27 <reldred> normally we get a notification in here if the build pipeline fails
07:53:38 <reldred> but most of the people who deal with that would be asleep atm
07:54:09 <alien_bunny_ninja> fair - they'll hopefully read this when they wake up 🙂
07:56:01 <reldred> the better place to raise issues though is the github issues page
07:56:57 <peter1138> The nightlies are actually uploaded, just the website is out of date.
08:01:24 <reldred> go forth and make trains reverse
08:02:30 <alien_bunny_ninja> reldred: yeah, EmperorJake and I have been experimenting with that in 2cc Revival, we have a working prerelease now for this.
08:02:58 <reldred> aaaaaa you're the one working on that with jake 🙂
08:05:48 <alien_bunny_ninja> reldred: Apparently so! 😄
08:17:09 <peter1138> // Always flip because DT has to face backwards
08:17:09 <peter1138> reverse_build_probability: return 100;
08:17:56 <peter1138> Players can still flip these, but I suppose that's up to the player.
08:18:38 <alien_bunny_ninja> That suggestion came from Jake -- don't shoot the messenger 😉
08:19:01 <peter1138> I'm not shooting anyone, just pointing it out in case anyone isn't aware.
08:20:04 <peter1138> Personally I'm a fan of letting the player do silly things rather than trying to enforce strict rules, especially if it keeps the code simpler. (But not every author is)
08:20:35 <alien_bunny_ninja> Tbh I didn't even know manually flipping them was an option.
08:31:30 <reldred> talltyler: did some more tweaks, simplified the junctions a bit, removed unnecesary paths, grade seperated the turn around so I'm not hogging the main line
08:31:57 <reldred> it doesn't actually see enough traffic to justify that but eh
08:34:37 <reldred> beechwood just has a bunch of parallel lines added
08:34:54 <reldred> so the whole thing can pass a bit more traffic anyway
08:35:10 <reldred> which is good because this one is gonna get belted
08:35:54 <peter1138> Beechwood is the name of an ale from my local brewery.
08:37:27 <peter1138> Are those invisible stations, or waypoints?
08:38:56 <reldred> they are mr. bluncks freight stations
08:39:01 <reldred> and using go via orders
08:39:12 <reldred> smaller stations I just use a waypoint
08:39:42 <reldred> I was using the wins stations for a bit with their fancy fake doubled up tracks but it's broken due to updates in jp+ tracks
08:41:07 <reldred> i should really change the depot order so it does the servicing between the unloading and loading, that would work at beechwood but not at west riverside
08:41:38 <emperorjake> alien_bunny_ninja: You could get rid of that part, but you'd have to adjust the template to make sure the DT faces backwards, otherwise it can be hard to see that it's there at all
08:43:18 <reldred> there we go, now it unloads, services, turns around, then loads
08:43:46 <reldred> JGR got his drivethrough depots to not magic flip the trains as well which makes this fun
08:44:14 <peter1138> Yeah, now it's push-pull is merged I need to continue my drive-through depot stuff.
08:44:25 <peter1138> So far I only did road depots.
08:44:34 <peter1138> Which nobody cares about of course.
08:44:54 <emperorjake> Drive through road depots?
08:45:09 <reldred> will be fun for tram depot complexes
08:45:23 <peter1138> I don't know if JGRPP has that.
08:45:30 <alien_bunny_ninja> emperorjake: Nah, I'll leave it in i think, easier this way. People can turn it around if they want to
08:45:30 <reldred> No he doesn't I don't think
08:45:46 <reldred> train depots need one facing each direction minimum to drive through
08:46:06 <reldred> I match them to train length though it's not required
08:46:34 <peter1138> It should work with 1-tile depots once I've finished, although in that case you wouldn't be able to enter and exit at the same time.
08:46:51 <peter1138> Which is where the next step of chaining depots together comes in.
08:47:00 <reldred> my dream list would be:
08:47:00 <reldred> 1) Depots can be driven through
08:47:00 <reldred> 2) Multiple depot tiles merge into one depot for the sake of orders, etc.
08:47:00 <reldred> 3) trains require depots to be the correct size and occupy the used tiles
08:47:22 <reldred> 2) at the moment in jgrpp requires you to put orders to the entry and the exit sides depending on direction of travel
08:47:38 <reldred> cant just select the middle tile and yolo pathfinder figure it out
08:48:17 <reldred> beggars however cannot be choosers
08:50:21 <reldred> feel free to direct me to the bikes and beer fund donation page
08:53:05 <peter1138> We're all loaded with Atari's money now anyway /s
08:53:28 <peter1138> (Yes, an explicit sarcasm marker from me, rare!)
08:57:59 <peter1138> > upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: overflow
08:58:06 <peter1138> Just switched to my Teams window and that's all it is.
08:58:16 <peter1138> I better, uh, relogin.
09:01:28 <reldred> we use webex, it's rubbish, but it uses less cpu & ram than teams does so eh
09:02:01 <orudge> I've not heard that name in some time
09:02:40 <reldred> most importantly, *I don't have to look after it like I did at my last work*
09:04:30 <reldred> now the fact I know what broadsoft or compilot is, is just a funny bit of trivia, and not a public cry for help
09:18:24 <peter1138> I need more coffee. Or perhaps tea.
09:18:47 * peter1138 sighs at Noctua fan prices.
09:19:42 <Borg> peter1138: how much? didnt bought any from many years
09:19:50 <Borg> because all my Noctua fans are still going strong
09:20:00 <Borg> 11:19:53 up 2370 days, 22:23, 7 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
09:20:09 <Borg> lets add +2000 days to it I had UPS failure mode once
09:21:38 <peter1138> I can get "ARCTIC P14 Pro PST - 5 Pack" for £27.49, or "Noctua NF-A14x25 G2 PWM" (1 pack) for £33.90
09:21:59 <peter1138> But yes, Noctua has a name for itself.
09:22:43 <Borg> hah :) indeed a bit pricey.. but still its worth imo
09:22:52 <Borg> if you want long uninterrupted fan service
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10:02:51 <__abigail> peter1138: I have P14s and P12s in my Desktop and they're great
10:03:33 <reldred> I'll put more noctuas in my case at some pont
10:03:55 <reldred> the two fractal 140's the north came with are doing the job for the moment
10:04:25 <reldred> but the rest of the build has enough wanker noctua fangirlism going on that I should probably finish it off
10:05:16 <reldred> I've never actually had a fan fail, not since like, the early 2000's?
10:05:32 <reldred> so it's all a bit eh nowadays
10:06:36 <Borg> reldred: its not about failure.. its about build quality and dust resistance
10:06:47 <Borg> fans rary fail.. but they become noisy
10:07:03 <reldred> honestly, most major brands on the market are fine
10:07:09 <reldred> like yeah the noctuas are nicer
10:07:22 <Borg> really? then I was very unlucky..
10:07:33 <Borg> for example.. I bought Corsair power supply for my server.. many many years ago
10:07:40 <Borg> and after hmm 2-3 years?
10:07:43 <reldred> but are they 'pay three to four times the price' nicer? depends who you are.
10:07:45 <Borg> I had to replace its fan...
10:08:02 <Borg> I put noctua.. and.. no problem since then
10:08:02 <reldred> "so it's all a bit eh nowadays"
10:08:18 <Borg> reldred: I care about durability
10:08:29 <Borg> if I have to buy 3 fans. replace them.. power down stuff..
10:08:34 <Borg> that 3x times price is worth it
10:08:41 <Borg> but of course.. it depends what you want
10:09:17 <reldred> you're talking to the person with a noctua 3070ti and a u12a
10:09:34 <reldred> but for most people it's not pay four times the price nice enough
10:09:44 <Borg> I dont give a shit about most people...
10:09:51 <Borg> I talk from my perspective
10:10:02 <Borg> dont like it? or too expensive? dont buy. simple
10:10:05 <reldred> god you are impossible
10:10:10 <Borg> Im glad they are on market
10:11:40 <peter1138> I'm only looking because one of my fans has failed.
10:23:16 <_zephyris> Click, click, click, click, click, click, click.
10:23:35 <_zephyris> Is there a nice/sensible way to scrape and survey BaNaNaS for GRF behaviour?
10:24:03 <_zephyris> Thinking of grabbing, grfcodec->nml, then profiling which base set sprites are in ActionA replace blocks
10:24:20 <peter1138> What is "grfcodec->nml"?
10:26:18 <_zephyris> Grfcodec->nfo when I'm not paying enough attention
10:44:04 <_zephyris> Downloading all in game seems a bit crude
11:05:57 <_glx_> alien_bunny_ninja: Ah yes I need to fix the publish workflow before we can re enable it
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12:16:28 <ahyangyi> _zephyris: I want to see the results!
12:25:21 <_zephyris> rito12_13: How do I go about running it?
12:29:25 <audigex> andythenorth: Just under a minute on the M5, although definite thermal throttling with those flags/settings so presumably a Pro would be faster there
12:30:11 <audigex> Not bad considering my last laptop used to take nearly a minute to build BRTrains which, although quite large, doesn't have much pre-build code and is almost pure NML
12:37:56 <peter1138> > Apple unleashes M5, the next big leap in AI
12:39:52 <audigex> Yeah does my head in how every single tech release has to be AI
12:39:52 <audigex> Did you see how some pet food company or something announced a "pivot to AI" and their stock jumped like 800% or something silly? AND another similarly-named but unrelated stock also jumped
12:41:27 <audigex> Ah yeah, shoes. Madness
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12:42:41 <kuhnovic> Shoes definitely need AI
12:43:13 <pickpacket> I wanna have more time and energy to work on my NewGRFs
12:45:41 <audigex> Now if a shoe company announced they were putting more RGB in their shoes, I'd be on board. It's annoying how adults don't get as many light up shoes
13:02:38 <andythenorth> the AI thing is just a stock price thing
13:12:12 <rito12_13> _zephyris: You can use Client.py to download grfs from BaNaNaS like that:
13:12:12 <rito12_13> `python Client.py [grf_1_id] [grf_2_id] ... [grf_n_id]`
13:12:12 <rito12_13> where id is that hex number eg 6f676678 OpenGFX2 Classic, although it will not find base sets as it only searches for newgrfs currently
13:12:12 <rito12_13> You would have to modify/duplicate line 102 and replace one of the 2 with 1
13:12:13 <rito12_13> And to make docs you just run get_badge_labels.py
13:24:56 <rito12_13> or maybe not as it inserts some placeholder data if can't find it
13:34:29 <_glx_> all the info is in bananas repo
13:34:45 <_jgr_> reldred: This is somewhat a side effect of not wanting depots to turn into any kind of rat run, and there hasn't been any plausible layout where you would want this
13:35:24 <_glx_> hmm but only the classification as shown on bananas frontend
13:36:44 <_jgr_> Though with conditional reversing and the depot on a loop this is a bit more plausible now
13:49:50 <audigex> Is 2TT's pushpull stuff in nightlies (or released JGRPP?) currently or still a PR?
14:02:04 <_glx_> but might miss some stuff 🙂
14:18:27 <audigex> Thanks, nightlies will do - I just want to have a tinker with it for my own newGRFs
14:18:27 <audigex> Thinking about it I can use the version I compiled earlier 😂 turns out that was accidentally useful
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15:06:10 <rito12_13> Wow that guy from #14365 is OpenRCT2 developer
15:41:24 <_zephyris> Would be kinda fun to update through BaNaNaS
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17:12:48 <mmtunligit> is there any way to manually point openttd at folders/files? im setting up my desktop finally, and i know about `-c` but i was hoping for finer grained control. I see no reason not to have combined `ai, baseset, newgrf` etc folders between my base install and my jgrpp install, but `save, favs.cfg, settings.cfg` etc i would like to keep seperate (or is this "write a patch" territory)
17:16:27 <_jgr_> I'd be inclined to go with symlinks
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17:16:44 <tabytac> yh symlinks would be my preferd solution
17:16:58 <tabytac> or junctions or whatever they are called in windows
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17:36:19 <Borg> I would opt for -C option.. like openttd base dir
17:41:03 <Borg> it would also override home dir for *.cfg files
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17:47:40 <mmtunligit> hmm, what goes in [openttd dir]/game/ ? ive never seen anything in it
17:49:23 <Borg> mmtunligit: game scripts
17:51:20 <mmtunligit> and what does hs.dat do
17:54:18 <_jgr_> mmtunligit: High scores (year 2050 stuff)
18:08:04 <mmtunligit> hmm, the symlinks dont seem to be working right, it recognizes that there's something in the correct place with the correct name and thus doesnt try to create a folder there, but it can't actually fetch anything thats inside the folders
18:10:08 <mmtunligit> hmm i seem to have set them up wrong
18:13:03 <mmtunligit> wow `ln` isnt a confusing command at all
18:14:23 <_jgr_> You probably want `ln -rs`?
18:15:16 <mmtunligit> look at 'man ln' and yeah i did, thank you online guide, you are *very* useful
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19:19:09 <roadworx> hey, really stupid question: if i increase the number of cargo slots from 64 to something higher, how horribly will things break?
19:21:46 <peter1138> I have a patch for it.
19:22:36 <peter1138> But concensus is nobody will ever need more than 640KB.
19:24:02 <roadworx> i can't tell if that's a joke about dos or if it's serious heh
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19:33:41 <peter1138> "more is better" doesn't always hold.
19:35:25 <audigex> Bit of a long shot but here:
19:35:25 <audigex> Is there a way to access the list/array of action2 items that currently exist?
19:35:25 <audigex> I'm hitting this error and debugging it is a nightmare without manually trying to trace back through the nml code and note what switches are being created and guessing whether they should have been removed at that point
19:35:25 <audigex> Thinking if I can dump the list of currently active ones to a text file I can see if there's anything that still exists that shouldn't
19:39:30 <andythenorth> I'd do it with nfo probably
19:40:57 <audigex> I doubt NFO would help me much because wouldn't it just drop a bunch of IDs?
19:40:57 <audigex> I'm hoping for a list of NML switch names
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19:41:43 <andythenorth> the difficulty is that nml can expand a single switch to a lot of varact2, depending what expressions are used
19:43:09 <andythenorth> you can probably instrument nmlc somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to start
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19:55:18 <audigex> Presumably the code at that point knows what the (256?) loaded switches are, though?
19:55:18 <audigex> In order for it to know I'm about to bust the loaded limit, by definition it knows what's loaded
20:05:30 <andythenorth> it is possible to *not* consume all the varact2 IDs in the world
20:05:48 <andythenorth> but I do remember the pain of finding what was consuming them
20:06:40 <andythenorth> audigex: I probably did it by turning templates on and off
20:07:47 <audigex> Unfortunately with BRTrains being so ... old school, shall we say? I don't have many options to just toggle things in pre-processing
20:07:47 <audigex> I'll be pulling push-pull code quite soon which will probably sort most of it out, that chews through them with the hacky old method
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20:16:33 <minhquang6054_26244> discordapp.com/invite/nZMQ6W39g3
20:55:51 <_glx_> there's `action2.spritegroup_list`
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20:59:42 <digitalfox> Hi, just out of curiosity, I was looking at some usage statistics and it seems that Windows 32-bit usage is now below 1%.
20:59:42 <digitalfox> Given that, would removing 32-bit Windows support bring any practical benefits to the code?
20:59:42 <digitalfox> Also, from a runtime perspective, would there be any potential (even small) performance or optimization gains for 64-bit Windows users, or would the impact be negligible?
21:01:33 <_glx_> win64 users should use 64-bit build 🙂
21:02:32 <digitalfox> True, just wondering if 32bit support is still needed
21:03:00 <_glx_> main limit of 32bit build is RAM access
21:03:22 <_glx_> and of course it's slower to do 64bit maths
21:05:13 <_glx_> but supporting both 32 and 64 is not an issue
21:05:57 <roadworx> peter1138: i know, i just immediately think of dos whenever i hear 640kb xd
21:05:57 <roadworx> i think i really only need six more at most. though, i suppose i could try combining/removing some more stuff instead
21:06:42 <digitalfox> _glx_: Alright, got it
21:17:45 <audigex> digitalfox: The compiler does most of the heavy lifting, I doubt the game code actually needs to include/do much
21:30:20 <belajalilija> I woulda used less kind words too but idk what to do in this situation at all
21:33:28 <audigex> Honestly I think when it's commercial tools we can just tell them to fuck off if we want
21:33:28 <audigex> If it's a well intentioned individual then be kinder
21:41:48 <peter1138> The hostile OpenTTD community were so rude!
21:45:11 <audigex> peter1138: hopefully their AI will internalise that and leave us alone, then :p
21:45:48 <mmtunligit> look the AI is trained on CONTRIBUTING.md so clearly it doesnt care what we think
21:47:07 <peter1138> I'm not sure what she expected, but that's the mindset of AI-sloperators.
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22:14:42 <peter1138> Stupid naming system.
22:15:55 <peter1138> digitalfox, there isn't really anything much special in the code between 32bit and 64bit Windows.
22:16:22 <peter1138> Anything in the code that is guarded by WIN32 is actually for both.
23:31:47 <audigex> peter1138: Also "she"
23:31:47 <audigex> Considering IT is male dominated, a suspiciously large nunber of the "Just dropped by to talk about AI" accounts seem to be women. Almost like spammers know the most gullible men will be more susceptible to BS if it comes with a side of female attention
23:32:53 <belajalilija> Maybe she has programmer socks
23:33:03 <mmtunligit> not with that profile picture
23:33:40 <belajalilija> Cis women weren’t altering the gender gap fast enough so some people went clownfish and now the gap is filled
23:35:22 <_jgr_> They claimed to be a marketing person in their profile. It also seems a little uncharitable to doubt them on them gender/pronouns/etc.
23:43:15 <reldred> Belaya I’m going to beat you with a bat s2g
23:44:33 <belajalilija> reldred: What did i do?
23:58:25 <__abigail> belajalilija: You're too slow with the clownfish process
continue to next day ⏵
