IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-04-02
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04:48:47 <andythenorth> It do always be like it is
04:49:00 <andythenorth> Except sometimes
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04:58:45 <reldred> Yeah I find its changed over time for me
04:59:15 <reldred> certainly getting out of the shit job I had has done wonders for my tistic meltdowns and general anxiety levels
06:08:18 <andythenorth> hmm should I Horse?
06:08:21 <andythenorth> maybe not right now
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08:34:03 <x1vi_zi> Hey how long till the PR gets reviewed and any networking opportunity ?
08:34:41 <__abigail> And no, probably not
08:35:24 <x1vi_zi> __abigail: are you fellow contributor ?
08:35:53 <x1vi_zi> __abigail: I see and u have a regular dev job ?
08:36:01 <x1vi_zi> if u dont mind me askin ?
08:36:04 <__abigail> x1vi_zi: No, I'm unemployed
08:53:53 <LordAro> that's really not how we operate here
08:58:05 <andythenorth> Curious about software engineer employment
08:58:35 <Borg> howdy :) Ha! I managed to fix that strange delay I had when finishing OT_WAIT :) forgot to clear VRF_TRAIN_STUCK..
08:58:37 <andythenorth> 4 years ago hiring was ~impossible
08:59:08 <Borg> and now is impossible^2 ? ;)
09:06:54 <jfkuayue> Borg: do you reckon some moments where you have to run a program or webapp or something that you cant run it on your XP
09:35:28 <Borg> jfkuayue: not really.. because im retro oriented
09:35:48 <Borg> luicky.. I still have decent web browser for stuff like online meetings etc..
09:36:22 <Borg> for generic web browsing im using headless Linux VM and Xserver on Windows
09:36:52 <Borg> but.. because Xserver is considered deprecated.. dark clouds forming...
09:37:06 <Borg> I guess.. few years more.. and that setup will not cut anymore..
09:43:03 <Borg> jfkuayue: if interested I can share some screenies ;)
09:43:26 <Borg> also.. Desktops 2.0 is very handy in such setup. because Second virtual desktop is dedicated to Linux VM.. Xserver running there
09:45:52 <peter1138> Decent web browser? Is there one?
09:46:19 <Borg> peter1138: ahh you mean not bloated.. hehe
09:46:26 <Borg> Supermium is pretty decent actually..
09:46:53 <Borg> but I use it only for 2 things
09:47:01 <peter1138> If only everyone hadn't jumped on Google's Chrome when it first came out as the "new best thing" back in the day...
09:47:12 <Borg> peter1138: I dont use google browser personaly
09:47:38 <peter1138> Anything based on Chrome...
09:47:40 <Borg> the Chrome based is for online meeting only
09:47:50 <peter1138> And FF is doing a grand job of enshittifying themselves.
09:48:04 <Borg> thats why Im already behind.. using some older ESR
09:48:12 <peter1138> Internet Explorer 6?
09:49:04 <peter1138> Best viewed in Internet Explorer 3.0 at 800x600
09:49:19 <Borg> well.. all my web pages should work on IE 6.0 indeed
09:49:40 <Borg> but will render on pretty much anything
09:50:36 <peter1138> So is there a telnet interface? :p
09:51:12 <Borg> nah ;) but I like the CLI like interface
09:51:19 <Borg> but if you dont want type.. you can click on all links
09:51:42 <__abigail> you should make `quit` close the tab
09:51:56 <LordAro> nah, just shut down the computer
09:52:08 <Borg> __abigail: anyway, type: topless
09:52:43 <reldred> you know they cant see your custom discord emotes right
09:52:52 <LordAro> i mean we get the gist
09:53:20 <__abigail> do unicode emojis work at least
09:53:28 <reldred> depends on the irc client
09:53:49 <Borg> Im on terminal.. xterm.. no UTF
09:53:55 <reldred> when i last irc'd the client I was using supported them
09:54:05 <LordAro> XP doesn't really know what emojis are
09:54:14 <peter1138> We should open up an OpenTTD MUSH, everyone connect via TinyFugue.
09:54:24 <reldred> but something like irssi will show them on a modern enough terminal
09:54:46 <Borg> LordAro: its not about XP.. but client + terminal
09:54:48 <peter1138> I can roleplay being a good coder.
09:55:01 <Borg> if you really cared.. you probably can build sth on mintty based.. using UTF.. and decent irssi
09:55:10 <Borg> but.. wtf cares about emoji on IRC anyway?
09:55:32 <reldred> can only communicate through hieroglyphics
09:55:42 <LordAro> many of the combined characters don't work for me, but yeah, i don't exactly sweat it
09:56:22 <__abigail> peter1138: Did I miss something
09:56:24 <peter1138> Actually I better not or I'll be k-lined again.
09:56:26 <__abigail> I was busy looking at a train
09:56:49 <reldred> why cant i find exactly the models of mikrotik switches i want for sale 2nd hand and cheap on ebay
09:56:53 <peter1138> __abigail, "do unicode emojis work"
09:57:14 <peter1138> Because all MikroTik switches have some snag that makes them annoying.
09:57:21 <reldred> half these prices are more expensive than what I can buy from a local distie
09:57:34 <LordAro> peter1138: sometimes that snag is "unavailable to buy"
09:57:35 <__abigail> I've been looking for ages for a decently-priced HPE JG932A
09:57:48 <reldred> I've liked all the ones I had at my last work
09:57:59 <__abigail> I bought one off some german cunt on ebay but he had a sook because he didn't want to pay for shipping
09:58:02 <reldred> but i designed that network so eh, kinda had to like them
09:58:04 <peter1138> But was it SwitchOS or RouterOS?
09:58:11 <peter1138> Because SwitchOS is... urgh.
09:58:16 <Borg> they RouterOS is good.. bit SwitchOS.. is junk
09:58:27 <Borg> if I need managed switch, I think I would go TP-Link route
09:58:34 <Borg> but! that company starts to suck too
09:58:45 <Borg> they old Managed switches are very decent
09:58:57 <__abigail> I only have a google nest router atm (out of necessity because of the way my old house's cable install was)
09:58:57 <__abigail> Hopefully I'll get cables run into my bedroom for the rack
09:59:04 <reldred> never buy tplink switches
09:59:06 <Borg> Running Time - 695 day - 23 hour - 46 min - 12 sec
09:59:13 <Borg> and that counter is 3th roled I think :D
09:59:44 <__abigail> I have to turn my server off at night because it is loud af 😔
09:59:47 <reldred> oh they'll run, but they'll randomly wipe their vlandb periodically when they get sad, spanning tree dont work a damn, forget omada,
10:00:01 <Borg> reldred: are you using VTP?
10:00:17 <Borg> spanning tree hmm.. I avoid using it..
10:00:20 <__abigail> Borg: Who needs a command line when you have MERAKI so you can pay a SUBSCRIPTION
10:00:27 <peter1138> I enable too many things on my Mikrotiks so they do things in software.
10:00:31 <Borg> __abigail: dont even joke like that... :P
10:00:51 <reldred> vtp is cisco proprietary so no, i don't.
10:00:52 <__abigail> I need some PoE injectors for my IP phones
10:00:52 <__abigail> My catalyst has PoE but also I can barely stand it running for 10 minutes
10:01:06 <Borg> reldred: hmm I tought tp-link have sth similar.. or not?
10:01:11 <__abigail> Kind of the reason I want the JG932A but yeah
10:01:19 <Borg> never used it actually.. but... I never had problem w/ tplink loosing vlan db..
10:01:29 <__abigail> Who needs VLANs anyway
10:01:45 <Borg> maybe their newer switches become junk.. you mentioned omada.. I have old switches. pre omada
10:02:20 <__abigail> Disable VLAN tagging, no-one needs voice VLANs or management VLANs or whatever
10:02:20 <__abigail> You want all of the frames having an orgy
10:02:30 <reldred> seen multiple do it, had to teach my last junior how to configure topologies to 'fail safe' and not accidentally bridge multiple networks together if one switch drops its vlandb, that said you don't always get that option depending what you're dealing with
10:02:43 <reldred> but, alas, not my problem anymore
10:03:06 <reldred> i just get to brush hatsune miku's hair in the datacentre i don't have to actually configure jack shit anymore
10:03:06 <Borg> maybe junior was doing sth weird [;
10:03:13 <reldred> nah wasn't the juniors fault
10:03:29 <reldred> was teaching him how to avoid replicating mistakes previous employees had made
10:04:31 <Borg> reldred: did you at least had good network documentation? :D
10:04:37 <__abigail> It has been a while since I did CCNA so fucking around with the catalyst was fun
10:04:37 <__abigail> Until I connected the PBX to it and realised what a piece of shit the PBX is
10:04:41 <Borg> ever network I touched... it was big issue
10:04:56 <reldred> pffft, I just rip them apart and re-do them if they smell funny.
10:04:56 <__abigail> Anyway the catalyst is going to help stabilise my rack
10:05:12 <reldred> document the new setup, on to the next one
10:05:27 <Borg> I love my documentation system.. CLI based...
10:05:46 <Borg> I still puzzlet.. how someone can like netrack.. or how its called?
10:06:09 <reldred> but nowadays I'm more big picture type stuff, i have a pair of DC's I look after, i'm more concerned with utilization, consolidating racks in the dc's, etc.
10:06:25 <reldred> configuring the individual devices is another teams problem
10:06:47 <reldred> get paid more than anyone at my old company though including the managers
10:07:17 <__abigail> I think your workplace should hire me
10:07:17 <__abigail> I am very competent
10:07:55 <reldred> eh, chrisafulli takes all our monies
10:08:12 <reldred> dont think they're gonna be doing any hiring anytime soon
10:08:33 <reldred> theres two of us in this role and that's the absolute minimum they can have for various reasons, but there isn't two peoples worth of work lol
10:09:08 <reldred> anyway, I need to buy switches for my lab, one CRS112-8P-4S-IN, one CRS310-8G+2S+IN, and two CRS310-1G-5S-4S+IN should do it
10:09:15 <reldred> do a mini little mlag setup
10:09:39 <__abigail> can you buy me fans for my server
10:10:04 <reldred> Borg: networking skills are perishable, if you don't use them you lose them.
10:10:08 <Borg> the only thing I needed LAB recently.. was MPLS
10:10:20 <Borg> everything else can be virtualized... especially IP stuff.. like routing
10:10:53 <reldred> eh, I prefer having physical hardware. virtualising layer 2 intricacies in a useful fashion is difficult.
10:11:11 <Borg> unless of course. you want to have specific vendor.. but.. Mikrotik is.. well.. cheap..
10:11:21 <reldred> i've got a little three node proxmox environment running ceph etc, gonna do a modified baby little l2 clos topology
10:11:40 <Borg> uh. so not only networking..
10:11:51 <__abigail> I'm planning on running pfsense/whatever on my server with a quad 10gig nic
10:12:00 <__abigail> then a couple of big fat switches
10:12:13 <__abigail> reldred: what isn't shit
10:12:49 <reldred> virtualising pfsense is a shitfight because its bsd based, has drivers for virtualisation, and leaves you either being stuck with vnics that you can't add to or remove from, or doing physical nic passthrough
10:13:17 <rito12_13> Borg can I connect to your website through terminal instead of browser?
10:13:29 <reldred> everyone on r/homelab whatever will tell you to do opensense or pfsense but they're all fucking wrong
10:13:33 <Borg> rito12_13: nah :) its web site.. there is graphics there too
10:13:56 <__abigail> My gf used it at tafe with their proxmox install so it's the only one I know lol
10:14:11 <reldred> and if you do physical nic passthrough you then can't leverage vmware or proxmox high availability
10:14:52 <reldred> i run mikrotik chr virtual router on proxmox, do it all vnics, bind each vnic to a different vlan, I've got five in my environment
10:15:08 <Borg> rito12_13: I made it ages ago as PoC that CLI like interface is doable.. and liked it..
10:15:16 <rito12_13> Borg I'm on debian, do I run it with wine?
10:15:37 <reldred> my nbn ntu is in an untagged vlan4001 port on my managed switch, then i create a vnic on vlan4001
10:16:02 <reldred> but you could just as easily do a straight linux vm with FRR or something, or just straight iptables.
10:16:14 <Borg> rito12_13: hmmmm quickrun? I doubt it
10:16:22 <reldred> if you want something cisco'ish to configure
10:16:44 <Borg> it registers some hotkeys.. and check for VirtualDesktops.. but it works from Win2000 to Win10
10:17:22 <__abigail> reldred: I mostly want something I can talk about in job interviews tbh
10:17:29 <Borg> rito12_13: but if you are fan of Master of Orion.. I can give you link to my 1ooM fork. should work on Wine just fine
10:18:35 <reldred> __abigail: Yeah that's the other motivation. I can't talk specifics about what I've built for customers, but if I can emulate it on a smaller scale and have it in a rack in my office I can point to it and say 'here it is' and show a diagram and explain it
10:18:59 <rito12_13> Hmm, 've never played that
10:20:53 <rito12_13> "This page is no longer maintained as of April 2026. The project has moved to sourcecraft." No more github
10:20:54 <reldred> so do i need a three node HA ceph proxmox cluster at home? not really, but its also just a trio of low powered Lenovo m920q's with a couple ssd's in them and a single 8 port managed dell poe desktop switch. Only thing that's gonna change is the networking is going to get a bit more advanced but it's still just an l2 with a bunch of stacked vlans, just means I can show off the fact i understand
10:20:54 <reldred> crap like mlag and describe how I've modeled it on larger networks i've built for paying customers.
10:21:39 <__abigail> reldred: Yeah, I mean for me it's just because I have zero fucking relevant experience and my degree was kinda worthless
10:22:15 <rito12_13> Borg: Wait I have it in library on GOG
10:22:28 <Borg> rito12_13: you need data files from orginal DOS Master of Orion 1.3
10:22:38 <Borg> then you just dumb .exe from 1ooM and vioala
10:22:43 <Borg> should work out of the box
10:25:08 <LordAro> reldred: interesting. we generally get on quite well with tp-link switches + omada. but very much office grade rather than DC grade stuff
10:25:23 <Borg> LordAro: do you use omada?
10:26:03 <reldred> I found omada to run hapily if you just leave them the hell alone, i found that if you need to actually start doing networking things they die in the ass
10:26:32 <reldred> things like not being able to configure spanning tree max hops, port costs, etc.
10:26:38 <Borg> for now you can disable omada.. good.. but I wonder how long ;)
10:26:59 <reldred> some other contractor on site goes and bridges two ports off to a rogue 5 port switch somewhere and it freaks the hell out
10:27:09 <Borg> I prefer CLI.. the only device I configure using GUI is Mikrotik. hehe :D they CLI is awfull
10:27:38 <LordAro> but as reldred says, not particularly actively. the network is not complicated
10:27:41 <reldred> the CLI on mikrotiks is great, it's just different if all you're used to is cisco's and cisco-like's
10:27:57 <Borg> reldred: I didnt said its bad.. its awful.. for me :)
10:28:01 <Borg> yeah. I prefer Cisco.. or Juniper
10:28:14 <Borg> even Huawei or DCN is okey
10:28:22 <__abigail> Fun fact: if you want to disable a route you need to set the address to 0.0.0.0/0
10:29:28 <reldred> yeah this was in a production factory with three buildings, I wanted to setup redundant return path and stp but nope, couldn't influence root bridge with bridge or port costings, couldn't set bpdu max hops to prevent freakouts, etc.
10:29:56 <reldred> oh well, its someone elses problem now
10:30:07 <Borg> reldred: why you wanted to do it over L2?
10:30:26 <Borg> I prefer to keep L2 domains small.. as small as possible
10:30:33 <Borg> multiple buildings? oh.. time for routing
10:30:41 <Borg> but yeah. L3 switches are more expensive
10:30:42 <reldred> well they didn't have money for all layer three switching, and they had factory production applications that needed to stay in the same l2 domain
10:30:52 <Borg> hah yeah.. thats the problem usually
10:31:13 <Borg> reldred: huh? that app was from 80's? :)
10:31:26 <Borg> used some weird L2 broadcasting?
10:31:30 <reldred> fuck knows, wasn't my app
10:31:47 <reldred> but I wasn't about ready to reverse engineer an entire factory now was i
10:33:13 <reldred> also was a legacy IP PBX maintained by another vendor I had no say in that we were not about to try and ask to be reconfigured
10:33:34 <reldred> with its own carriage for sip trunks, etc. that we had no control over
10:35:43 <reldred> also physical seperation between buildings wasn't great and when you have a large wifi network changing l3 domains when you roam between two AP's can be... quite jarring to a lot of applications.
10:36:25 <reldred> __abigail: diagram of current setup
10:37:09 <reldred> it's great, I can do live migrations of that virtual router between hosts without even dropping packets heheheheh
10:37:39 <__abigail> My mother really loves me now that I have a jellyfin server
10:38:39 <reldred> at my last companies datacentre that was how we built customer tenancies, we had that basic setup repeated about a half a dozen to a dozen times over, was great because if the customer had their own l2 carriage out to sites, mpls links, whatever we could just plug their carriage into the relevent switches in our dc and trunk it to their own virtual router.
10:39:24 <reldred> then just throw their virtualised domain controller and any other virtual servers in another vlan and just chuck another vnic on their virtual router
10:39:52 <reldred> we had a /23 of public addressing so we could also then just throw another vnic with a public address on it.
10:40:01 <Borg> all that networking talk made me hugry for some OpenTTD ;)
10:40:12 <Borg> time to inspect my rail network ;)
10:40:20 <reldred> we had a pair of big chunky routers handling all the actual public addressing but eh in reality I could have replaced them with vrouters as well.
10:41:04 <reldred> vnics are quick enough these days doing physical passthrough of nics is a bit pointless now
10:41:35 <__abigail> Ugh my ram is dying
10:46:36 <reldred> but yeah when I get these switches the home lab will get a bit of a shakeup, dual 10gig sfp's on each of the three hosts, lacp back to a pair of switches setup for mlag
10:47:09 <reldred> or maybe i can play with the new vxlan support in proxmox and do a full l3 clos design instead
10:48:13 <reldred> but tbh i like building tight little layer 2 designs, its an often neglected part of networking
11:17:20 <peter1138> Heh, the RIPE DB entries for the address space of the company I used to work for still exist.
11:18:16 <reldred> awww I forgot what the old /23 was
11:18:58 <reldred> meh, I don't need to look at that, I know the new owners were gonna tear it all apart I don't need to get upset over that
11:20:13 <reldred> oh nice routeros 7.22 supports bgp ecmp now
11:20:50 <reldred> maybe I will do vxlan when I get all these switches instead of mlag
11:27:15 <reldred> hmm the sports ball at the gabba appears to be over, now i have to listen to drunkards in my front yard/street stumbling back to their cars
11:44:33 <Borg> ahh okey so adding that Wait (N) half-days was great idea..
11:44:54 <Borg> no need to bother w/ train timetables.. I just adjust waiting at Sidings :)
13:07:11 <orudge> Hmm. Upgraded my PC (new CPU/motherboard/RAM, but same GPU), installed Windows 11 on it. OpenTTD now crashes with hardware acceleration enabled, which was fine on Windows 10.
13:07:24 <orudge> Access violation in SwapBuffers (inside atig6pxx.dll)
13:08:06 <orudge> Running the latest AMD drivers too
13:08:57 <ahyangyi> My openttd runs "fine" on windows, just plays midi weirdly
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13:42:16 <Borg> orudge: at least software mode works ;>
13:55:35 <_glx_> I somehow remember a similar report
13:56:11 <orudge> On the plus side, it seems the old d3d11 PR is easy enough to rebase to master, and I've got it displaying stuff. It's not currently doing any animation though.
13:56:31 <orudge> oh, the game was paused, d'oh
13:57:00 <orudge> Maybe I can get it into some kind of shape where it could be merged
14:04:04 <rito12_13> Borg: You were right, it's a wonderful game
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14:41:37 <davidxn> Must be the new embezzlement feature
14:42:33 <davidxn> Having the save file to reproduce it would be really the most important thing here!
15:16:11 <andythenorth> I continue to not be logged into steam, and carefully not finding out where my MFA creds are :P
15:16:30 <andythenorth> but shady could presumably upload OpenTTD to Steam themselves, and see what happens?
15:17:13 <LordAro> that's probably a trademark issue at that point
15:17:48 <talltyler> Deleted that post 🙂
15:17:55 <andythenorth> it was very entertaining
15:18:17 <andythenorth> bet they're the hardest kid in their school too :)
15:21:10 <peter1138> talltyler, "omg censorship"
15:22:04 <andythenorth> "Censorship is Inmoral"
15:22:38 <andythenorth> but not outmoral
15:23:48 <andythenorth> is it inrageous?
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19:58:32 <quast65> Is this still a thing?
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22:09:20 <peter1138> Well it's still there.
22:09:53 <peter1138> I believe the general concensus is "meh"
22:13:06 <exceptik> Let's add an (optional) tribute to the king 😆
22:13:36 <exceptik> (just a wild joke towards the money drainage)
22:19:24 <peter1138> My money was drained at the pub.
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23:48:47 <reldred> I’m still not out of bed, but it’s a holiday and I’m not getting paid
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23:50:56 <truebrain> And for those not on Discord: I just disabled a bunch of GitHub preview workflows in the OpenTTD org, as it is actively misused to exfil GitHub secrets 🙁
23:54:10 <__abigail> reldred: I luckily had a monster left. All the shops are closed so I would've had to go to the servo
23:59:42 <reldred> Love that about Melbourne, everything is always fucken closed. Brisbane at least seems to be a bit like Adelaide in that shit actually stays open on weekends and holidays.
continue to next day ⏵
