IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-03-21
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04:58:34 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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07:55:27 <pickpacket> peter1138: drive through train depots without trains having to slow down when? :D
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07:56:54 <hanum865> pickpacket: [`Direct Your Issue/Question To The Team`]
07:56:58 <hanum865> > com\invite\97UWDcZm4u>>**
07:56:58 <hanum865> ᵐᵉˢˢᵃᵍᵉ ʷⁱˡˡ ᵃᵘᵗᵒ-ᵈᵉˡᵉᵗᵉ ⁱⁿ ᵒⁿᵉ ᵐⁱⁿᵘᵗᵉ
07:58:30 <pickpacket> hanum865: wow, that message makes no sense on my side of the IRC bridge
08:00:12 <pickpacket> Also, isn't this the dev channel? Aka #troll-peter-andy-lordaro-talltyler-et-al ;)
08:16:18 <andythenorth> Is it safe to go back in discord yet?
08:20:45 <_zephyris> Welll... Last post on Discord channel #openttd is linking to the steam reviews for TTD
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08:52:55 <andythenorth> it's all pretty much over, no-one will remember this by next week
08:55:34 <pickpacket> Oh yes. Plenty of people will.
08:56:04 <pickpacket> If there's one thing that never goes away it's when fans get pissed at a big company.
08:56:39 <pickpacket> It's Atari that will lose out on this, though. They're the obvious villain
08:57:37 <pickpacket> but re the legal situation of IP and stuff I've felt that it needs a clarification somewhere that can be linked to, because it's a question I've encountered several times over the past few years. And asked several times myself
08:57:39 <locosage> the legal situation is an absolute mindfuck, I've went back and forth with chatgpt on it for an hour and still don't understand how any of this is legal
08:58:25 <pickpacket> I wouldn't trust chatgpt to understand copyright law. Hell, copyright lawyers barely understand it
08:58:47 <locosage> thankfully I'm not going to court with it
08:59:49 <andythenorth> the legal situation is not a mindfuck
09:00:21 <andythenorth> but I'm not going to armchair lawyer it in irc
09:03:01 <locosage> well, I for once don't quite understand how atari can distribute openttd under gpl without allowing others to do so
09:04:00 <pickpacket> actually there's even a question rn about whether they can bundle ttd with opendos without releasing the whole ttd source code under gpl...
09:04:57 <locosage> source code is available so they don't need to do anything with it
09:05:29 <pickpacket> peter1138: the DOS emulator. Or did I get the name wrong?
09:05:39 <locosage> but how are they allowed to use gpl is a great question
09:05:59 <locosage> and they clearly can't distribute it any other license
09:08:35 <peter1138> pickpacket, no, it's DREAMM.
09:11:42 <locosage> another question is how openttd team is still allowed to distribute the game while having contradicting conditions imposed on them (pt 7 of gpl2)
09:13:09 <andythenorth> none of this is very relevant
09:13:28 <andythenorth> "still allowed" implies there's an authority in charge
09:13:53 <andythenorth> no court has determined anything, therefore "allowed" doesn't come into it, at this point
09:14:31 <andythenorth> if any of you wish, you could put a GPL version of OpenTTD on Steam and other stores and see what happens
09:15:05 <andythenorth> for some of them, you might need to incorporate a legal entity to get signing certs or to deal with the store contract
09:15:33 <andythenorth> what happens after that....would be empirical
09:15:44 <locosage> chatgpt explanation is that atari both allow free distributition under gpl in general and still go after everyone who actually does that under copyright law
09:15:59 <andythenorth> chatgpt is not a court
09:16:03 <andythenorth> courts determine
09:16:33 <andythenorth> everything prior to a court determination is an agreement between parties, or a negotiated settlement
09:16:43 <andythenorth> and even a court judgement can be challenged on appeal
09:19:32 <pickpacket> ... and it's likely a legal conflict with several different jurisdictions with possibly different laws involved...
09:19:57 <pickpacket> basically whoever can afford a longer legal process dictates the terms
09:20:06 <pickpacket> of any agreement, that is
09:20:28 <pickpacket> is it possible to see how many copies a game has sold on steam, btw?
09:21:00 <pickpacket> and how many of those buyers have actually played it for any non-zero amount of time?
09:21:22 <andythenorth> my lawyers always emphasise, try to do everything possible to avoid legal proceedings
09:21:33 <andythenorth> because only the lawyers win
09:21:41 <pickpacket> it's come to my attention that some people buy more games than they actually play 🤪
09:24:34 <andythenorth> how is pineapple land?
09:25:19 <locosage> it's still a decent way to get another perspective without actually hiring a lawyer
09:27:34 <andythenorth> eh? pineapple land isn't what?
09:29:19 <reldred> pineapple land is fine, petrol is rather expensive atm
09:29:41 <notluke2578> Eh rather diesel anyway
09:29:51 <reldred> Diesel is even *more* expensive.
09:30:02 <notluke2578> That’s not my point
09:30:58 <reldred> it would currently cost about $500-600 to fill my landcruiser atm
09:32:06 <locosage> holy heck, how many liters is that?
09:32:40 <reldred> i have other, smaller cars that I drive more often though
09:33:13 <reldred> but still it has more than doubled since donnie started his little iranian adventure
09:34:37 <locosage> takes about 60$ to fill mine, that's 90 liters of 95 petrol
09:35:09 <pickpacket> hmm... 180 litres of petrol here in Sweden would be roughly $320 here in Sweden. It hasn't really changed at all lately
09:35:33 <pickpacket> remove one "here in Sweden" from that...
09:36:04 <andythenorth> here in Sweden we use here in Sweden twice
09:36:22 <pickpacket> we're usually among the most expensive countries at the pump, what with really high petrol taxes and whatnot
09:36:28 <pickpacket> andythenorth: exactly
09:36:51 <reldred> they're blaming old mate stockpiling fuel, that our actual supply hasn't even been disrupted (yet), but service stations around the country are literally gone dry and a few crazy old preppers with jerry cans can't do that. Has to be distributors playing silly buggers, but waiting for the gubbermints to do anything is a fools errand.
09:37:28 <pickpacket> Donny is such a brilliant stable genius strategist
09:39:13 <pickpacket> wanna get back to legal discussions? 🤪 Or tell me how to find data on steam sales?
09:43:07 <tabytac> The only way to get true data on number of steam sales, is to look at the developer console and see from there
09:44:06 <andythenorth> so I'll need to do Iron Horse 5 for backing up trains?
09:44:26 <peter1138> Steam won't just give out commercially sensitive data...?!
09:45:13 <andythenorth> so with backing up trains, will they back up faster if they have a brake van?
09:46:08 <peter1138> well if you have dvts you could just set the appropriate flag
09:49:30 <andythenorth> I'll need to make the tail lights conditional
09:49:38 <andythenorth> well, never a dull day eh
09:52:57 <notluke2578> Didn’t know you lived in hull
10:11:15 <ahyangyi> locosage: I don't think releasing on Steam has anything to do with GPL.
10:11:15 <ahyangyi> Similarly, there could be a version of Github that allows every open source project on it except OpenTTD and that version of Github does not violate GPL either.
10:11:58 <ahyangyi> That people needed Steam to install a free and open source game is another problem.
10:21:31 <locosage> if it's a platform choice, yes, but atari can't modify gpl to forbid distribution on steam
10:22:26 <andythenorth> is steam an open access service?
10:22:41 <michi_cc[d]> Atari doesn't forbid anything, they suggested a deal that was accepted.
10:23:27 <michi_cc[d]> Nothing in GPL 2.0 forbids charging, it only says that the source must be availablle with it (it is) and that the buyer is allowed to redistribute it (the Steam exe is DRM-free, so that is possible, too).
10:23:41 <andythenorth> as I said above there's no "allowed" or not at this point
10:23:45 <andythenorth> choices were made
10:23:58 <michi_cc[d]> For everything else, read up on Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc. if ChatGPT hasn't found that for you yet.
10:24:43 <michi_cc[d]> While this is a judgement "only" on US district level and neither the Supreme Court nor an UK court, it clearly shows where the legal opinion tends to.
10:25:42 <ahyangyi> The license of OpenTTD is not changed.
10:26:22 <locosage> tetris case only suggests atari can shut down openttd, it doesn't explain anything wrt gpl
10:26:54 <michi_cc[d]> Yes. So a deal was reached, which is fully unrelated to any GPL strawman you try to construct.
10:28:03 <ahyangyi> There is some connection though. If it goes to court and rules that a few lines in an old version was in copyright violation, then the author of those lines had no right to redistribute that code under GPL.
10:28:47 <locosage> what strawman? gpl explicitly forbids distribution for certain cases where a deal is involved
10:29:47 <locosage> it's clear openttd is going to use gpl regardless as noone is probably going to court over it
10:29:56 <locosage> but it's nice to whether it's used legitimately
10:30:44 <michi_cc[d]> "You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy" (you can argue about the physical, but that is only because GPL 2 was kinda pre-online distribution, GPL 3 is much clearer there).
10:31:04 <ahyangyi> ahyangyi: This is how part 7 works in practice
10:31:06 <locosage> i'm not talking about any charge here
10:31:57 <ahyangyi> ahyangyi: i.e., not in our favor
10:31:59 <andythenorth> yes, it's a nice section
10:32:04 <andythenorth> comes after 6 and before 8
10:32:12 <michi_cc[d]> Section 7 is totally unrelated to anything at all.
10:32:39 <ahyangyi> The redistributor of OpenTTD is not Atari, but the openttd devs
10:32:43 <andythenorth> any other legal strawmen?
10:33:02 <ahyangyi> so section 7 basically says if the court bans you, you are banned.
10:33:12 <michi_cc[d]> The only thing that could be read as an obligation is " they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License", and given that we still distribute the source code and provide a DRM-free version, we comply.
10:33:50 <andythenorth> Men are dirty, rifles are clean
10:33:58 <locosage> "If, as a consequence of ... any other reason (not limited to patent issues), conditions are imposed on you (whether by ... agreement ...) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License. If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence
10:33:58 <locosage> you may not distribute the Program at all. "
10:34:07 <andythenorth> it has no relation
10:34:16 <michi_cc[d]> Given that Atari isn't distribution shit, it is very unrelated.
10:34:31 <andythenorth> locosage feel free to contact the FSF and start a case
10:34:59 <andythenorth> I'm unclear who against, you'd probably have to identify *who* currently is distributing OpenTTD
10:36:00 <andythenorth> or alternatively, life is too short for all this shit
10:36:02 <locosage> I'd entertain that thought if it was against Atari but they're under no obligations
10:36:14 <michi_cc[d]> The distribution company on Steam, OpenTTD Distribution Ltd, has decided to use the provision of section 1 of the GPL 2 to charge a fee for distribution on a certain platform.
10:36:40 <andythenorth> and has entered into a GPL-compliant arrangement to do so
10:37:17 <ahyangyi> And that does not stop the rest of us from simply pointing to openttd.org, and jgrpp, and CityMania.
10:38:17 <andythenorth> Steam is now a trickle of posts about it, and reddit has stopped
10:38:31 <andythenorth> forums is just the usual couple of squeaky wheels talking about nothing at all
10:38:47 <andythenorth> I have NFI what Discord is doing
10:38:52 <locosage> anyway, this all is a much better explanation than just "let's all look the other way"
10:39:19 <reldred> the main channel is mostly noobs talking about the game
10:39:57 <peter1138> Did we break the GPL by stopping distribution on Sourceforge?
10:40:02 <reldred> they have no idea what they're doing, but they're doing rather than engaging in more pointless debate
10:40:23 <peter1138> (Actually I can't remember what we put on SF)
10:42:39 <tabytac> last updated 2013 and 111 downloads this week alone haha
10:42:58 <ahyangyi> Could just be search engine bots and openclaws
10:43:02 <andythenorth> is it even safe, or has someone malware squatted it?
10:43:28 <ahyangyi> Depending on your opinion on whether adware is malware 😛
10:43:53 <tabytac> looks to be just bots/scrapers
10:44:33 <tabytac> the most recent release is just a txt file with this as its content
10:44:33 <tabytac> ```Because of the enormous amounts of manual steps to release a version on
10:44:33 <tabytac> sourceforge and the increased number of binaries we provide, we have stopped
10:44:33 <tabytac> uploading binaries to sourceforge. For our latest releases we redirect you
10:46:04 <ahyangyi> Even without the adware fiasco, SourceForge was a UI disaster when compared to Github tbh
10:46:17 <emperorjake> I think sourceforge is where I first downloaded OpenTTD back in the day
10:46:37 <ahyangyi> But of course SourceForge was the only useable platform back then
10:48:52 <ahyangyi> looking back, projects were open source but the mental burden to get in and submit a PR even to fix a typo was enormous.
10:49:10 <ahyangyi> The fork button wasn't there, the PR button wasn't there 😛
10:50:31 <ahyangyi> Google Code did better and could be the true predecessor of Github though.
10:54:09 <andythenorth> maybe I'll rewrite FIRS today
10:59:57 <locosage> michi_cc[d]: wait, are you saying it's openttd that gets money from sales?
11:00:29 <michi_cc[d]> A Steam bundle is is a bundle, not a product.
11:01:15 <michi_cc[d]> Transport Tycoon Deluxe is obviously distributed by Atari, not OpenTTD.
11:01:55 <locosage> well, then you didn't decide to charge any fee at the very least
11:02:32 <michi_cc[d]> Yes, and no. There is indeed on charge for OpenTTD on Steam, yet you can't get it without a charge.
11:03:17 <michi_cc[d]> But it was just meant in relation to GPL, which is not invalidated in anyway by charging something or not charging something.
11:04:30 <andythenorth> anyone could put OpenTTD on Steam and charge
11:05:33 <locosage> which I never suggested it was as I know perfectly well that GPL software can be sold
11:06:57 <rito12_13> What about 3.b "Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution..."
11:07:29 <pickpacket> btw, this paragraph suggests that Atari has legal standing to CnD OpenTTD at any time: "We discussed these plans, and we understood that a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests (which of course they are entitled to pursue as the rights holder) against the availability of a free, well-developed evolution of the game."
11:08:14 <pickpacket> At the very least it's unclear about it. And make no mistake; *if* Atari can close down OpenTTD it *will* at some point. That's just how corporations work.
11:08:29 <andythenorth> again, so many of you don't understand actual law
11:08:32 <andythenorth> which is fine but eh
11:08:56 <locosage> rito12_13: it's either of those, having source on github is enough for 3.a afaict
11:08:58 <pickpacket> andythenorth: no, I don't. Which is why I'd like transparency and explanations
11:09:26 <andythenorth> has the court determined anything?
11:09:43 <michi_cc[d]> pickpacket: Yes. I repeated, look up Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc. And then in addition there's the reverse engineering problem that is at least of questionable legality.
11:10:55 <andythenorth> the explanations have been provided
11:11:20 <andythenorth> on Steam, OpenTTD is bundled with Atari's paid TTD
11:11:21 <pickpacket> michi_cc[d]: about reverse engineering I can say this: Ludde is Swedish and Swedish copyright law explicitly permits reverse engineering :D
11:11:55 <michi_cc[d]> rito12_13: There's a reason the FSF is recommending using GPL 3.0 for projects now (even if some people don't like the additional terms for patents), as GPL 2 is just pre-dates mass online software distribution.
11:12:10 <andythenorth> pickpacket: how is that relevant?
11:12:47 <pickpacket> andythenorth: because it's a matter of jurisdiction. If he was in Sweden when he did it then Swedish law applies to his actions
11:12:58 <andythenorth> I think you're envisaging a court case
11:13:07 <michi_cc[d]> pickpacket: Then please look up the exact legal terms. German law allows reverse engineering, too, but for example only if you use it to improve interoperability, not for outright cloning. I'd be very suprised if Swedish law wouldn't be similar.
11:13:08 <andythenorth> law is decided in court, not on the internet
11:13:36 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I'd argue the point about transparency but I'm gonna drop this now. I have studies to do and I feel like further discussion will just risk to curb enthusiasm about working on the game ❤️
11:13:42 <andythenorth> repeating what I've said elsewhere, UK corporate laywers run £280 - £560 per hour
11:14:10 <michi_cc[d]> Given that both countries are part of the EU and are governed by EU law.
11:14:14 <jfkuayue> WTF is hundreds of quids per hous
11:14:15 <andythenorth> I have been acquainted with multiple corporate legal actions
11:14:19 <pickpacket> (I spent €700 on an immigration lawyer last year and my wallet still hasn't forgiven me)
11:14:43 <andythenorth> the last one I was involved in, my lawyer's wanted £40k deposited on account, after 1 hr of initial advice
11:14:46 <andythenorth> to proceed any further
11:15:09 <andythenorth> I have 3 law firms
11:15:33 <andythenorth> one of them advised me about another client (anonymously) in a small business, who had spent £1m defending a law case in a small business
11:15:57 <andythenorth> at the end what would happen?
11:16:13 <andythenorth> * there's no copyright issue, but £1m has been spent by people who don't have the money
11:16:34 <andythenorth> * there is a copyright issue, which is remediated by court-supervised clean room reimplementation
11:16:52 <andythenorth> but meanwhile Atari just use DMCA takedowns on all the platforms anyway
11:17:00 <andythenorth> but the project ends long before that
11:17:34 <michi_cc[d]> Or the UK court follows Tetris Holding, LLC v. Xio Interactive, Inc and there is no OpenTTD, not even a clean room reimplementation.
11:17:38 <andythenorth> and for complete clarity, nothing has passed my eyes which suggests that a legal case was likely
11:18:04 <andythenorth> life if is not all about winning meaningless internet battles
11:18:39 <andythenorth> the game is still free, still available, and if some lazy entitled fuckwits want to go on basement rants about it not being in Steam....well people gonna people
11:19:19 <locosage> law isn't decided on the internet but opinions are
11:19:20 <andythenorth> "I can't figure out how to download a binary, so delete the whole project everywhere" is not winning
11:19:27 <jfkuayue> People are just over worrying on misinformation
11:19:30 <locosage> and trying to avoid legal discussions make you look guilty
11:19:47 <locosage> when you actually have a decent standing
11:19:48 <andythenorth> trying to avoid legal discussions is categorically normal
11:19:59 <andythenorth> never volunteer information
11:20:07 <andythenorth> name, rank, number
11:20:21 <andythenorth> all these "fuck the corporate man" types will be the first to go down
11:20:28 <andythenorth> they've left evidence all over the place
11:21:19 <michi_cc[d]> More transparency won't help against people who won't or can't read anyway. If a post with the sentence "All other distribution platforms are unchanged, and you can continue to download OpenTTD from our web site." gets the reply "OMG Atari made OpenTTD proprietary", nothing that could be written more would help.
11:21:33 <andythenorth> "you can please some of the people, some of the time"
11:21:47 <andythenorth> the paranoid fuckwits are still calling the posts lies
11:21:52 <andythenorth> or forced statements
11:22:13 <andythenorth> sunshine and transparency don't overcome paranoia, the fuckwits just double down on new inventions
11:22:58 <andythenorth> anyway, Iron Horse 5?
11:23:02 <locosage> michi_cc[d]: yet the second post did help a lot
11:23:28 <andythenorth> there would always have been a second post
11:23:38 <andythenorth> it was just a question of what came up that needed answered
11:24:03 <rito12_13> The value of Atari's shares is going down...
11:24:43 <andythenorth> Iron Horse 5, "backwards edition"
11:24:44 <locosage> isn't the whole market going?
11:24:48 <andythenorth> "reversing Horse"
11:25:04 <locosage> just make sure it's clean room reversing :p
11:28:42 <locosage> you can't blame people for being paranoid when you make contradictory statements
11:29:34 <andythenorth> they'll be paranoid anyway
11:29:40 <rito12_13> locosage: Dunno, I don't follow US market
11:30:03 <andythenorth> the world is messy, some people can't cope
11:30:24 <andythenorth> also lol, my internet mentors tell me that "Cope" is now a pejorative word
11:30:32 <andythenorth> apparently "coping" is now a bad thing
11:30:44 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I think you're being overly condescending (not because of the word "cope", though)
11:31:26 <pickpacket> yeah, it's something like "making up excuses to explain all the shit because you're too chickenshit to face reality" iiuc
11:31:41 <pickpacket> younger generations redefining language all the time
11:32:30 <locosage> even the most reasonable person would smell bs when os developers say they aren't "pressured" yet concerned with commercial interests of some company
11:33:09 <andythenorth> not every goes around looking for petty fucks to give about situations
11:33:16 <andythenorth> reasonable people do not give a fuck about pixel trains
11:33:33 <andythenorth> it's already the realm of the firmly, completely unreasonable
11:37:01 <pickpacket> andythenorth: again, you're being unnecessarily condescending. If people want to give a fuck it's their prerogative. It's not up to you to decide whether that's objectively or universally "reasonable" to do.
11:38:12 <pickpacket> I've seen corporations snuff stuff I like for no other reason than that they can before. Forgive me for being worried about a game I really care about. I don't think I'm being unreasonable for that.
11:38:50 <andythenorth> I have the Steam and Reddit comments more in mind TBH
11:39:47 <pickpacket> Well, people express their ire in more or less civilised or constructive ways. Doesn't mean they're unreasonable for having them. With reservations for the reddit comments, because i haven't read those
11:40:19 <andythenorth> they get their fuckwit opinions elevated to a privileged position?
11:40:23 <andythenorth> seems a bit weird to me :)
11:40:38 <pickpacket> Okay, I'm *really* stepping away from this topic now. It's starting to make me sad for real and I need to do other things
11:41:02 <andythenorth> well no, my words are my words though
11:41:55 <belajalilija> I hope you are all behaving and been reasonable
11:42:09 <andythenorth> is it Iron Horse 5 yet?
11:43:33 <belajalilija> Will iron horses eventually come in different forms?
11:43:42 <belajalilija> Iron Horse 14 Pro
11:43:53 <belajalilija> Iron Horse 12 Plus
11:44:33 <belajalilija> Maybe you could go all in on next release and just call it iHorse 5
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11:50:09 <andythenorth> Atari had a game called Steeplechase
11:50:55 <andythenorth> there were mechanical versions, and a board game version also
11:51:03 <ahyangyi> I want Iron Horse Color
11:55:39 <belajalilija> andythenorth: I played a real version of this at a caravan site when i was little and won £4,20 in 10 pence pieces
12:34:45 <peter1138> Do I need to ask Atari what I should work on? :p
12:36:50 <ahyangyi> 8bpp is too modern, make a 4bpp mode?
13:22:03 <squirejames> i'd unironically love an ST and an Amiga port, ngl
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13:47:43 <andythenorth> I'd love some lunch
13:48:46 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I've had lunch. It was good
14:02:52 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: One byte lunch?
14:10:57 <squirejames> I mean there's a takeaway near where I used to live (still get text from them, must cancel that 😄 ) called MegaBite
14:11:11 <squirejames> Excellent tandoori chicken, I must say
14:18:46 <pickpacket> ahyangyi: my lunch had... hmm... 7 ingredients... so not a full byte, I guess
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15:08:08 <mmtunligit> isnt that just intended behavior? iirc trains dont enter platforms that are too short for them unless forced to
15:10:23 <rito12_13> Then it isn't a bug?
15:48:26 <mmtunligit> should probably close the report then
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16:29:10 <peter1138> (Had to tweak the brightness a bit.)
16:36:06 <andythenorth> can it do Syndicate? :p
16:36:37 <peter1138> Give me a palette...
16:37:07 <andythenorth> are we doing night graphics?
16:37:14 <andythenorth> which will only ever be used in screenshots?
16:37:33 <peter1138> No, I'm just messing around based on ahyangyi's comment about 4bpp mode :)
16:39:02 <ahyangyi> peter: ega4bpp2.png actually looks pretty good 😛
16:40:44 <ahyangyi> I thought company colour would be reduced to one colour per company, glad to see the bevel still works
16:45:01 <_glx_> 2bpp is indeed more limite 😉
16:45:36 <_glx_> but still somehow readable
16:57:15 <peter1138> andythenorth, is that the Amiga version? Hmm.
16:59:43 <peter1138> Can't find a clean screen grab :/
17:04:49 <Borg> hah.. ega indeed looks pretty decent.. after brightness fixup
17:05:13 <Borg> ppl here complain about my XP.. or 1.8.0 and then. OpenTTD ega... really? :)
17:05:45 <ahyangyi> Anyways the snow actually look cool
17:06:12 <rito12_13> peter1138: cgapalette.png is awesome
17:06:57 <ahyangyi> Syndicate has a poster-like quality
17:08:28 <peter1138> Locomotion palette?
17:08:29 <andythenorth> I like the brownness
17:08:38 <peter1138> I don't think I can be bothered to input that.
17:08:42 <andythenorth> I don't like locomotion overall appearance though
17:09:02 <squirejames> Man I loved Syndicate
17:10:29 <peter1138> Hmm, let's force 8bpp and load OpenGFX 2 Hi Def
17:11:43 <peter1138> I might need to check for an update, lots is not Hi Def.
17:14:09 <peter1138> I could happily play the EGA version tbh.
17:14:38 <LordAro> syndicate looks kinda fun to me
17:14:53 <peter1138> Hmm, allow NewGRF to set the game palette? :o
17:15:47 <peter1138> (Would allow better results actually, I'm just forcing the built-in palette to the nearest colour in a new lookup palette)
17:16:10 <peter1138> But no, it's a silly fhing for silly times, not a PR :)
17:19:19 <peter1138> Hmm, now that the original baseset is available I suppose fixing up the main menu to work with different size sprites might be in order.
17:19:34 <peter1138> We just say "eh, using OpenGFX (2)" before :)
17:22:10 <peter1138> Simplest way without adding extra parameters and things I suppose is to assume image width = image height, then ensure all buttons are the same height.
17:23:03 <peter1138> Ah, no, because we don't know the minimum size at that point.
17:23:10 <peter1138> (Cos that's the point of finding the minimum size)
17:38:02 <peter1138> Load Game and Help & Manuals
17:38:57 <peter1138> This is lazy code though, and assumes we ALWAYS want the images to be square.
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17:44:26 <squirejames> One of the games I mod, I mean its old so it makes sense, but it assumes all screen resolutions are 3:4 aspect ratio, and scales GUIs accordingly. Of course, thats not the case, so, to set the right sprite offsets for 16:9 resolutions, you have to take a screenshot, resize it from 1920 x 1080 to 1600 x 1200, (because it also assumes the largest resolution the engine can handle, and then scales
17:44:26 <squirejames> everything down for smaller) and then figure out where things should be, how square or not etc, and then adjust the offsets for that.
17:44:26 <squirejames> It's....a ballache. So yeah, I am firmly against lazy coding! 😄
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18:24:32 <andythenorth> too many liveries (or the liveries are too modern for a train that expires in 1996)
18:24:50 <andythenorth> meanwhile, the replacement has too few liveries
18:24:56 <andythenorth> how might this be solved? 👀
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19:01:02 <ahyangyi> Obviously the solution is MOAR ultra shoebox liveries
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continue to next day ⏵
