IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-03-12
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00:11:26 <goddess_ishtar> _glx_: I think this would be the best option
00:11:31 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: so do I
00:11:58 <goddess_ishtar> reldred: it's just so gross
00:12:09 <goddess_ishtar> who do they think they're benefitting
00:14:19 <peter1138> Hmm, jazz version of Suicide is Painless (M*A*S*H), kinda weird.
00:14:39 <jfkuayue> afraid of being left behind
00:15:23 <reldred> Painfully mediocre people who think AI will make them relevant.
00:15:27 <jfkuayue> happened a lot in competitive and results-oriented cases
00:15:31 <goddess_ishtar> I will gladly be surpassed in my use of slop
00:17:59 <reldred> I get them ask me shit like how did I do what I do so quickly and it’s like, twenty years of experience and a functioning frontal lobe
00:18:58 <jfkuayue> in some settings, people may *think* refusing to use AI would cause higher possibility to lose their security of materials (i.e. job, academia, etc)
00:19:23 <goddess_ishtar> but that's entirely coming from the top down
00:19:25 <reldred> not me lol, my job is very AI proof, even if it takes off I get more work to do.
00:20:07 <jfkuayue> And societal rumours saying "AI will take down all jobs"
00:20:09 <goddess_ishtar> goddess_ishtar: it's not individual people deciding to use it. it's managers telling their subordinates to use it
00:20:43 <jfkuayue> or "you will become illiterate if not knowing how to use AI"
00:21:57 <reldred> This enterprise I’m working for is very hesitant to throw any capex at ai though, they only seem to want to throw opex at it. It’s like they’re trying to publicly be perceived as bullish on it for their shareholders but behind closed doors they’re not making any commitment they can’t immediately turn off at the end of the month.
00:22:03 <peter1138> goddess_ishtar, individual people definitely are deciding to use it.
00:22:51 <jfkuayue> people are saying "its just a tool"
00:23:09 <reldred> Plus for everything apart from the copper mining side of the business they’re very much ‘if this doesn’t reduce cost per tonne we don’t want to know about it’
00:23:35 <reldred> Public perception will change when free tools stop being free.
00:25:19 <reldred> And in business I suspect in a few years CFO’s will be asking for concrete proof it’s either going to grow revenue or slash operating costs before anyone will deploy it. I don’t see much of a future for LLM’s as a whole, ML on the other hand will probably continue to be used as a useful tool for process optimisation.
00:25:57 <peter1138> > And yes, I'll say it outright: anyone who continues to refuse to work with AI tools will inevitably fall behind.
00:26:13 <reldred> OpenAI will flop this year is my personal prediction.
00:26:37 <jfkuayue> people are still getting their bachelors, master, phd degrees in AI fields
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00:26:47 <peter1138> (The German forum's response to that site was... *silence*)
00:27:12 <__abigail> git: 'gud' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.
00:27:12 <__abigail> The most similar command is
00:27:30 <reldred> They got them in entire fields of forensics that then disappeared overnight when vast chunks of forensic science were found to not even be based in the scientific method.
00:27:48 <__abigail> 30 years' experience running polygraph tests
00:28:03 <reldred> Nothing new under the sun
00:28:16 <reldred> The charlatans will continue to find a new ruse
00:28:25 <reldred> And scam people out of more money
00:28:34 <reldred> And out of their jobs
00:29:24 <reldred> And actually competent engineers will continue to see themselves be in high demand. Things will ebb and flow.
00:29:40 <reldred> Or we’ll all get nuked in two weeks time. Either/or.
00:30:47 <__abigail> Companies in five years when they can't promote Claude to senior: 😳
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01:06:38 <talltyler> Thanks for the review, _jgr_ , sorry it’s in such rough shape at the moment. Old unfinished patch adopted from someone else (frosch, but I take full responsibility for bad code) + multiple rebases over the years 🙂
01:09:22 <talltyler> I haven’t gone through with a fine tooth comb yet, so far it’s just been getting it to compile, fixing the obvious crashes, and splitting it into commits
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01:38:03 <reldred> Just yolo merge it and fix in the nightlies before 16.0, what could go wrong.
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02:04:10 <talltyler> reldred: Give me a week to clean it up before you advocate for that 😛
02:25:20 <reldred> Honestly I wouldn’t mind the existing no flip setting to have a third option to force this behaviour entirely without using orders. Might make that for JGRPP if it doesn’t make it to regular OTTD
02:38:03 <goddess_ishtar> since when was it a single toggle? I thought it was a dropdown
03:14:57 <audigex> Weren't a bunch of "two option dropdowns" changed a while ago?
03:15:23 <audigex> But yeah including it in that setting probably makes more sense than a new setting
03:17:04 <goddess_ishtar> "In stations and end of line", "End of line only", and "Disabled"
03:34:26 <reldred> Yeah I’ll take whatever at this point, priority should be getting it in and merged, the fancy widgets can be fine tuned later down the track.
03:35:01 <reldred> 16.0 is some time away so there’s no point getting hung up on the ultra-specifics.
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05:04:58 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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07:38:43 <andythenorth> did we finish talking about AI yet?
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07:52:49 <mrmox0456> goddess_ishtar: These double negations always trips me up. Why not just “Allow train …:On/Off”?
07:55:04 <telumendur> mrmox0456: I guess because trains being allowed to reverse in stations was the default (only?) behaviour in the original game, and so the setting is phrased in this way to reflect that. ("Do you want to change the default behaviour?")
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08:17:08 <Flygon> Oooh, that reversing train option seems really neat. I'd make some train station layouts that explicitly had reversing shunts (that never got used ingame because the train flipping direction twice looked silly) that would've been used precisely for turning around a piece of rollingstock at its terminus.
08:18:14 <andythenorth> can we reverse articulated trucks out of loading bays?
08:21:02 <LordAro> no patches to remove double negatives will not be accepted
08:23:47 <andythenorth> nobody is not unconfused
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11:10:43 <LordAro> tram dropdown is enabled even when there are no tramsets? sure?
11:11:11 * LordAro may be revealing just how little he's played OTTD recently
11:13:05 <mmtunligit> dev tax! no more working on the game until youve spent a week actually playing it
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16:43:44 <goddess_ishtar> oh, the zone hierarchy has *kinda* what I want, but not enough detail
16:44:53 <peter1138> It does depend what you need.
16:45:07 <peter1138> But if it's too much it becomes harder for things to interoperate.
16:45:59 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: sectors for industries in related chains
16:46:28 <goddess_ishtar> `sector/petroleum`, `sector/metallurgy`, etc
16:47:01 <goddess_ishtar> *some* things in the `zone/` hierarchy could work, like `zone/forestry` and `zone/agriculture`
16:47:06 <brickblock19280> Just use those then
16:47:44 <goddess_ishtar> brickblock19280: yeah but not *all* of them
16:47:58 <goddess_ishtar> `zone/ind` is way too broad for my purposes
16:48:19 <peter1138> I'm not sure if the mixing of different concepts in that list makes sense tbh.
16:48:39 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: under `zone`?
16:48:44 <goddess_ishtar> yeah it's a bit messy
16:51:04 <brickblock19280> goddess_ishtar: I mean the ones you wrote, no one has used the others and they're not actually in the game
16:52:38 <goddess_ishtar> brickblock19280: the question is what would be best for standardization between GRFs
16:52:43 <peter1138> rito12_51026, I'm aware I did it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense :)
16:52:56 <peter1138> It would've been based on someone elses idea at some point.
16:53:19 <goddess_ishtar> I think I'm just going to use `zone` for placement in towns and `sector` for the regional grouping
16:53:50 <peter1138> goddess_ishtar, you can make an issue or a PR in my repo and link to it if you want to discuss it with other authors.
16:54:02 <goddess_ishtar> goddess_ishtar: that makes the most intuitive sense to me
16:54:12 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: yeah, alright
16:54:25 <peter1138> Discussions aren't enabled on it, so...
16:55:26 <peter1138> I envisaged the zoning to be more low-level, like sim-city zones.
16:55:48 <peter1138> And probably threw in the others for the sake of it.
16:57:24 <rito12_51026> peter1138: Your badges are good starting point to show how badges are meant to work. The newgrf-specs page was meant to be updated by grf developers to contain up to date data for all grfs, but horse had too many badges
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16:57:58 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: yeah that makes sense mostly
16:58:21 <goddess_ishtar> rito12_51026: most Horse badges are in the private namespace, anyway
16:59:43 <rito12_51026> goddess_ishtar: and they are still used in other grfs
17:03:46 <peter1138> I could imagine setting, say, the badges "sector/forestry" and "zone/ind/low"
17:04:33 <peter1138> Putting industry types into zone does seem wrong.
17:06:49 <peter1138> many horse badges are basically internal use.
17:07:13 <peter1138> Anything which isn't should just be part of a standard of some sort.
17:07:31 <peter1138> But its easier for authors to just make up their own stuff and keep it private.
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17:16:34 <peter1138> Not sure why andy decided that needed an entire new class.
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17:17:03 <peter1138> I think he was fixated on "power" possibly being some numeric value...
17:18:26 <rito12_51026> He mentioned something about "power" being a property in NML and omitting name confusion
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17:21:42 <goddess_ishtar> it's kind of stupid because *now* everyone else has to decide whether to follow the spec or align with actual use
17:33:31 <rito12_51026> U&ReRMM 3 uses "power" though
17:35:41 <goddess_ishtar> also strange there's no `power/hybrid`
17:36:01 <goddess_ishtar> I guess you can include both `diesel` and `electric`
17:38:54 <peter1138> Yes, basically someone wanted to hybrid to distinguish things like battery, ac electric, along with petrol or diesel
17:39:05 <peter1138> Which is a kinda silly combinatorial explosion.
17:56:29 <andythenorth> I was out ahead of the spec and quite prepared to change
17:56:34 <andythenorth> but power is ambiguous
17:56:41 <andythenorth> lots of life is ambiguous, so eh
17:57:36 <goddess_ishtar> andythenorth: it really isn't
17:58:05 <goddess_ishtar> there isn't any scenario where you're referencing the `power/` hierarchy outside of explicitly dealing with badges
17:58:25 <andythenorth> but 'power' is not a category for 'diesel'
17:58:30 <andythenorth> in plain english
17:58:41 <andythenorth> why choose to be wrong?
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17:58:58 <andythenorth> 'diesel' is not a unit
17:59:09 <andythenorth> power is a quantised value in SI scale
17:59:37 <andythenorth> anyway, I can find-replace it, if that's the official spec
17:59:58 <andythenorth> sometimes I say 'graph' when I mean 'chart', so who am I to talk :P
18:00:34 <andythenorth> let me know when the spec is official
18:01:09 <rito12_51026> "gallons_of_diesel_per_sth"
18:04:02 <andythenorth> I can't even remember the difference between 'attribute' and 'property' sometimes
18:04:09 <andythenorth> or my children's names
18:12:13 <peter1138> 17:56 < andythenorth> I was out ahead of the spec and quite prepared to change
18:12:57 <peter1138> Not really, all that stuff was in the initial work of badges.
18:13:24 <andythenorth> it was but only you and me were doing anything with it
18:13:26 <peter1138> 17:17 <@peter1138> I think he was fixated on "power" possibly being some numeric value...
18:13:55 <andythenorth> maybe I could rewire my personality disorder
18:14:05 <andythenorth> it's not drug treatable though, apparently
18:14:18 <andythenorth> in the meantime, find-and-replace, and I'll just gripe internally about it
18:19:14 <andythenorth> wonder if electric-shock therapy would work :P
18:21:01 <jfkuayue> How is that £560 nowifi gaming PC now?
18:23:18 <andythenorth> I think I'm going to leave irc for a bit
18:26:23 <belajalilija> Take care of yourself Andy
18:32:27 <will_marshall_> I'm curious - obviously there's a limited number of variable indices for... I think they're VarAction2s, but let's go with "vehicle callbacks in NML" - is there some very high bar to clear in order to assign those variable indices to things?
18:34:33 <will_marshall_> For instance, I would like (it is not an absolute requirement, I'm just trying to train myself) a way to know the total horsepower of the current formation, I can see that 0x4E is the next free variable index, but I'm guessing these are a precious and scarce resource that I shouldn't even think about assigning to any purpose in case something else in the future needs it worse 😛
18:40:55 <peter1138> There's an official standards body that assigns numbers and updates the spec.
18:41:13 <peter1138> Or: we just use the next available number and don't worry about it.
18:44:36 <_jgr_> There's somewhat of a circularity issue, in that the game can query the NewGRF at various times to find out what the vehicle's power should be, which doesn't fit very well with NewGRFs querying what any previous value is
18:52:17 <will_marshall_> _jgr_: This, presumably, why there's the GroundVehicleCache() internally where the formation power is cached?
18:57:27 <michi_cc[d]> There's a reason why var 61 is blocked in many callbacks, exactly to avoid circular dependencies when resolving stuff in a vehicle chain.
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19:27:08 <will_marshall_> Am I reading this correctly, that there's already a var exposed for trains on 0x74 that has the data I need, and I could get at it through a var61 on the lead vehicle without making a dedicated callback?
19:27:23 <audigex> rito12_51026: One thing I learned a long time ago is that the newGRF spec will be treated as a challenge, not a limit
19:27:23 <audigex> People WILL do shit with badges that wasn’t expected, the same as we used the rest of the spec to do eg push pull and banker engines
19:27:55 <will_marshall_> ... just that NML doesn't do anything with that var right now?
19:29:26 <michi_cc[d]> will_marshall_: It's exposed as 0x80 + 0x74, so the NFO var is F4.
19:30:16 <will_marshall_> So hypothetically...
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19:53:41 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: hrm?
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20:13:13 <digitalfox> Sometimes I wonder if people lost the ability to think
20:13:30 <LordAro> can someone check the stun/turn server?
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20:58:32 <will_marshall_> Holy crap it works
20:58:42 <will_marshall_> I'm gonna go open a PR to find out all the stuff I did wrong.
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21:09:57 <brickblock19280> nothing particular tbh, it's nice to be able to get a legit copy
21:10:26 <brickblock19280> It is however no longer possible to download OpenTTD of GOG without purchasing it
21:23:25 <_glx_> ha yes we have a news to do 🙂
21:26:49 <_glx_> hmm a bundle is supposed to exist
21:29:09 <will_marshall_> I assume this is a legal maneuver but it seems weird that the work of OpenTTD contributors is (to an extent) to the benefit of... whichever zombie corp owns the TTDlx rights now.
21:29:21 <will_marshall_> I mean, explicitly, rather than as an implicit thing.
21:34:31 <dwfreed> also it shows as $9.99 here
21:34:59 <_glx_> oh but openttd is still purchasable for free
21:35:19 <_glx_> some steps are missing 🙂
21:35:53 <will_marshall_> So the post as written for the site is inaccurate?
21:36:08 <will_marshall_> OpenTTD is still free on Steam, like I'd hope.
21:36:14 <_glx_> the post is accurate based on infos given by atari
21:36:19 <goddess_ishtar> pragyanwarke-uiviaGi: absolutely hysterical
21:36:59 <_glx_> openttd is expected to be available only with the TTD bundle
21:37:12 <_glx_> but for now it seems the bundle doesn't exist yet
21:38:58 <dwfreed> I, uh, may have quickly opened steam on my phone and added OpenTTD to my library >.>
21:39:01 <__abigail> will_marshall_: "Ah fuck, make people pay if they'd like to download open-source software from Steam. That will fix things"
21:39:15 <_zephyris> Seems the USD price is indeed $9.99
21:39:33 <_glx_> it's 9.99 because it's not a bundle
21:39:45 <_glx_> bundle always have a discount
21:48:02 <audigex> will_marshall_: That’s pretty much what’s happening
21:48:02 <audigex> They own the IP so re-release the game and pull this bullshit
21:48:02 <audigex> They know full well that nobody will play their re-released game. It exists only to scoop the revenue for them
21:48:56 <audigex> People will buy the bundle and then play OpenTTD, they get the money while doing none of the work
21:49:45 <_glx_> but now it's possible to get TTD files legally
21:50:58 <will_marshall_> audigex: Leeches, Rentiers and Assholes.
21:51:19 <will_marshall_> (in my opinion)
21:53:25 <will_marshall_> So I have this vague memory of a Valve Developer Documentation article that basically said "once you've released your product for free, it'll always be possible for users to add it to their library" but I might be making that one up.
21:53:37 <reldred> Honestly, considering OpenTTD originates from a straight up decompile of TTD this is the best possible outcome.
21:53:54 <reldred> And after 20 years of flying under the radar
21:53:57 <will_marshall_> That's not accurate nor really relevant.
21:54:33 <reldred> Sure it’s accurate, Ludde confirmed it 20 odd years ago.
21:54:48 <reldred> It was a product of reverse engineering
21:55:02 <reldred> Now everyone can get on with their lives.
21:55:07 <will_marshall_> It is a product of reverse engineering but that doesn't mean anything.
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21:57:07 <will_marshall_> OpenTTD as a project has zero lawyers (correctly) - Atari can say whatever they want and there's no "nah" option available in the dialog tree.
21:57:36 <will_marshall_> But I'm saying that, in my opinion, they have no standing to kill this project which is why they don't.
21:58:13 <will_marshall_> OpenTTD isn't a clean room decomp but it also has no binary in common with the original release from 1994.
21:59:20 <will_marshall_> I'm not gonna argue this because #tycoon has been over this six hundred thousand times.
21:59:52 <peter1138> #tycoon was always more focused on ttdpatch, tbh.
22:00:05 <will_marshall_> okay yeah fair
22:02:21 *** audigex has joined #openttd
22:02:21 <audigex> Fundamentally if it was a decompile, even if extensively written, then its based on IP they now own
22:02:21 <audigex> Legally they’re in the right
22:02:21 <audigex> Ethically it’s a cash grab they know they don’t actually deserve
22:02:23 <peter1138> I wonder what the ttdpatch "crew" are up to these days.
22:02:51 *** reldred has joined #openttd
22:02:51 <reldred> I miss Patchman, I owe that guy basically my entire career.
22:03:24 <reldred> audigex: It’s not the worst outcome that could have happened though. At least everyone can get on with their lives now.
22:05:13 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
22:05:14 *** mmtunligit has joined #openttd
22:05:14 <mmtunligit> getting the game on steam is a relatively new development in the first place as far as im concerned, no huge loss there
22:05:48 <reldred> Yeah I just got outta the bath I’m gonna go buy it now
22:06:06 <reldred> I do still wanna track down a box on eBay at some point but whatever
22:06:22 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
22:06:27 *** tabytac has joined #openttd
22:06:27 <tabytac> if you already had openttd on steam, then you dont need to rebuy openttd, but yh to get TTD its somewhat nice theres an offical path
22:06:42 <tabytac> just hate how it locks OpenTTD behind it now
22:07:05 <will_marshall_> I would sooner drive to scotland and give Chris Sawyer a crisp £50 note than give Atari the dog biscuit crumbs from my pocket.
22:07:20 <tabytac> wonder what the player count graphs will look like before/after this chnage happens in a couple of years
22:07:22 <reldred> Eh, on GOG and steam it does. The binaries are still going to be around and I doubt OpenGFX and opengfx2 are gonna evaporate overnight.
22:07:34 <_jgr_> I've still got a copy of TTD from back in the day on a optical frisbee somewhere
22:07:49 *** talltyler has joined #openttd
22:07:49 <talltyler> Bear in mind it’s still free in OpenTTD.org 🙂
22:07:51 <reldred> Yeah I only have optical frisbee’s for music now
22:08:15 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
22:08:30 <will_marshall_> Naturally I still have the boxed copy of TTDeluxe from my childhood preserved in carbonite, as I have used as justification to download the original graphics 300 times.
22:08:33 <talltyler> It’s just Steam and GOG that are changing
22:08:41 <tabytac> talltyler: yeah i wouldnt mind "pushing" the free avenues more now tbh
22:08:45 <_jgr_> As for the TTDPatch "crew", I had SVN commit access there, so I suppose that includes me 😛
22:09:04 <will_marshall_> I'm glad I didn't wisecrack about how much all the TTDPatch devs are enjoying a quiet retirement now.
22:09:23 *** __abigail has joined #openttd
22:09:23 <__abigail> reldred: I should start putting some legally acquired frisbees on my server
22:09:24 <talltyler> Our news posts always point people to OpenTTD.org. 🙂
22:09:27 <peter1138> _jgr_, well I guess, but we know what you're up to :)
22:10:18 <_glx_> talltyler: and it seems the change is only active for gog for now
22:13:24 *** locosage has joined #openttd
22:13:24 <locosage> btw, what's the point of this bundle nonsense? if you can't have openttd on steam directly just pull it off, atari can sell their legacy shit all they want
22:13:56 <__abigail> Update the Steam description to
22:13:56 <__abigail> "OpenTTD is a business simulation game in which players earn money by transporting passengers and cargo via road, rail, water, and air. It is an open-source remake and expansion of the 1995 Chris Sawyer video game Transport Tycoon Deluxe, conveniently also available for free at openttd.org, a fact that we mention for absolutely no reason whatsoever."
22:15:26 <dwfreed> I think people prefer not to get slapped by lawyers again
22:17:06 *** goddess_ishtar has joined #openttd
22:17:06 <goddess_ishtar> OpenTTD officially does not stand for anything
22:17:12 <reldred> Of all the possible outcomes from legal threats this is one of the best that could have been hoped for
22:17:26 <goddess_ishtar> on April 1 we should change it to officially being "Open Toilet Tower Defence"
22:17:40 <reldred> I admit I was starting to feel a bit cynical about how this was going to turn out.
22:17:49 <mmtunligit> yeah i would not want to make any snipes in descriptions
22:17:50 *** rito12_13 has joined #openttd
22:17:50 <rito12_13> Would it be legal for you to make OpenTTD on Steam / GOG extra expensive, eg. you need to buy DLC containing features OTTD adds, because otherwise it would be just TTD with open engine?
22:18:01 <__abigail> goddess_ishtar: Toyland remake with toilet sprites
22:18:06 <mmtunligit> rito12_13: absolutely not iirc
22:18:31 <mmtunligit> or at the very least, youd be inviting a lawsuit that there are not the resources to fight
22:18:55 <reldred> goddess_ishtar: It's too late the Tower Defense Fest has already started on steam:
22:18:55 <goddess_ishtar> rito12_13: Copyright is significantly laxer (in practice, if not on paper) if nobody involved is making money out of it
22:18:59 <dwfreed> The situation was much better *because* it was free on Steam/GoG
22:19:41 <reldred> awwwww it's $14.50 kangaroo coins
22:19:42 <goddess_ishtar> "it's just a bit of harmless fan entertainment" is a lot less threatening to a big corporation as "someone is directly profiting off of our IP"
22:20:07 <goddess_ishtar> so they're less likely to sue and make our lives hell
22:20:37 <goddess_ishtar> __abigail: is a dollarydoo a kind of didgeridoo?
22:20:54 <__abigail> goddess_ishtar: Didgeridoos have value
22:20:57 <reldred> ahhh, another time, another place.
22:21:11 <goddess_ishtar> __abigail: they can be exchanged for goods and services
22:21:31 <reldred> just only 70% as many goods and services as an american dollar
22:22:00 <reldred> actually i should check that, it was teetering on 0.71 for a bit
22:22:01 <__abigail> reldred: In 2018-ish Telstra gave my grandmother a smartphone but didn't include data on her plan
22:22:01 <__abigail> So when I helped her set up the phone she got hit with $150 of charges at $1.80/MB
22:22:40 <goddess_ishtar> reldred: that sounds pretty strong, actually, since iirc CAD is hovering at around that mark and AUD prices all seem expensive to me
22:22:58 <__abigail> reldred: 70% of the goods and services plus the moral superiority of not having Hitler 2 running the country
22:23:01 <goddess_ishtar> yeah we're at 0.73 right now
22:23:19 <reldred> __abigail: yeah except our PM has now just decided to be hitler 2's bitch
22:23:27 <peter1138> I guess the people who complain that OpenTTD is no longer like the original game now have something else to play.
22:24:11 <__abigail> reldred: I think we're kind of in a corner tbh
22:24:11 <__abigail> Still waiting on those submarines...
22:24:13 <reldred> peter1138: Yeah honestly that's pretty good. Don't like OpenTTD's design direction? play TTD and leave us alone.
22:24:38 <rito12_13> Will it affect android port?
22:25:01 <mmtunligit> doubt atari even knows android port exists lol
22:25:13 <_glx_> only it TTD comes to google store I guess
22:25:22 <reldred> android port is completely standalone anyway
22:25:30 <reldred> I think it's on fdroid and that's it
22:25:49 <__abigail> The only android port I'm interested in
22:25:55 <rito12_13> reldred: Google store too
22:25:57 <peter1138> The 2014 Transport Tycoon was removed from the Play store at some point.
22:25:58 <reldred> actually I think it's currently just alpha builds of a 15.0 port with apk's being handed around.
22:26:04 <reldred> rito12_13: yeah that's old
22:26:17 <peter1138> The one that was Locomotion really.
22:26:30 <reldred> Yeah I suspect so, I think the minimum android API requirements on playstore slowly sunsetted it.
22:26:40 <reldred> since nobody was updating it
22:26:41 <locosage> does that "something else" now open in a window of legible size? xD
22:26:44 <goddess_ishtar> __abigail: honestly I'm surprised that nobody in the Fallout universe had the idea to do that with an Assaultron
22:27:06 <goddess_ishtar> they have the inexplicably feminine sculpted shape and everything
22:27:08 <will_marshall_> I thought that canonically someone had and they died as a result?
22:27:10 <__abigail> goddess_ishtar: Getting kinky with the laser head
22:27:19 <will_marshall_> I feel like that was a fo4 thing
22:27:51 <goddess_ishtar> the real reason is that Fisto was too good of a character to appear in any other game than New Vegas
22:27:55 <reldred> is this running in dosbox
22:28:00 <_glx_> yes it runs in a dos emulator
22:28:14 <peter1138> Doesn't look like dosbox though.
22:28:30 <reldred> No sound here running it on linux through proton
22:28:52 <reldred> it's not steam deck certified so the right audio drivers probably haven't been pulled into the proton wine prefix
22:29:27 <reldred> AAAAAAAAAAAA no scroll zoom
22:29:27 <goddess_ishtar> where's that from, GOG?
22:29:29 <_glx_> I think they use DREAMM
22:29:34 <reldred> goddess_ishtar: steam
22:31:41 <reldred> heh, the entire cd contents are in a folder called CD, including the original autorun.inf heheheh
22:32:02 <reldred> so yeah there'll be a consistent easy to access location for OpenTTD to just rip the necessary base files from.
22:32:50 <peter1138> Worst problem with all the dosbox wrapped games is you end up with loads of copies of dosbox that all need to be configured independently...
22:33:04 <reldred> Yeah, overall, sky hasn't fallen, ottd lives to see another day, the corpo gods have smiled upon us... for now...
22:33:38 <reldred> Yeah I don't tend to buy too many corporate packaged dosbox ports.
22:33:49 <will_marshall_> reldred: navigating steam installs to find other games is a bit of a messy thing
22:34:05 <will_marshall_> you get libraryfolders.vdf from the steam install directory and then go fish, I think.
22:34:22 <will_marshall_> It's been a while since I did that professionally.
22:34:33 <reldred> Blizzard have now managed to make me pay for Diablo 2 on three seperate occasions though, but D2R Infernal Edition runs nice on linux so I'm ok with it.
22:34:48 <will_marshall_> (was building mod tools for a game, finding the game so the users don't hate you is a value-add)
22:34:53 <reldred> people joke about todd howard but I have only bought skyrim *once*
22:35:15 *** belajalilija has joined #openttd
22:35:15 <belajalilija> goddess_ishtar: *laughs in take 2 interactive*
22:35:25 <reldred> belajalilija: exaccery
22:35:39 <reldred> you can hate atari as much as you want but this whole cash grab could have gone a *lot lot worse*
22:37:02 <will_marshall_> atari could have burst into my home and eaten my leftovers but i'm not gonna sit back and assume they won't do that at a later date
22:37:02 <reldred> yeah still a bit of a cop out but I aint got money for lawyers
22:37:28 <will_marshall_> anyway I'll go buy this crap and leave a negative review
22:37:35 <belajalilija> reldred: Looks emulatory
22:37:46 <reldred> belajalilija: thats coz it is
22:38:14 <peter1138> Well, not many people are running MS DOS these days.
22:39:15 <reldred> would have been hilarious if it ended up using a skinned version of ttdpatch in the back end to do the compat, i'd seen a few bootleg copies of ttd for sale on cd that did precisely that.
22:39:54 <belajalilija> peter1138: They should git gud
22:40:20 <mmtunligit> reldred: would probably have undermined any argument they could make about what were doing
22:43:07 <reldred> also oh wow just saw your fedi post peter, slopemd indeed
22:43:08 <_glx_> reldred: after checking it clearly looks like DREAMM ingame menu
22:43:39 <reldred> yeah I'm not super familiar with all the dos emulators these days
22:43:56 <reldred> fiddled with dosbox a little while back but found it was still painfully 'eh'
22:46:44 <reldred> we must return to sysvinit
22:47:13 <peter1138> Might still be installable on Debian, not sure.
22:47:17 <reldred> im told devuan is actually pretty decent
22:47:43 <reldred> i'm still just running kubuntu like the goddamn pleb that I am
22:47:50 <peter1138> Maybe someone™ enterprising (but not Enterprise) will fork it and remove any existing slop.
22:47:52 <reldred> and xubuntu on my surface go
22:48:16 <reldred> peter1138: and I'm sure they'll get instantly blacklisted by freedesktop.org
22:48:46 <reldred> goddamn corpos in my nerd os
22:49:02 <mmtunligit> reldred: same here, once i have a second computer ill make further mistakes and start fucking around with like arch or gentoo
22:49:05 <LordAro> oh hey, the news is finally out
22:49:23 <reldred> yes we've been pissing and moaning about it the last few hours
22:49:46 <reldred> the best decision, really.
22:49:47 <peter1138> That would've been nice.
22:50:02 <reldred> could go a parmi and a southern comfort and lemonade right about now
22:50:10 <reldred> even if it's only 0850
22:50:13 <reldred> it's after five somewhere
22:50:30 <tabytac> reldred: its after 5 here!
22:50:51 <reldred> __abigail: shut your whore mouth filfthy victorian/new south welshman
22:50:53 <LordAro> i am, for the record, not especially happy with the solution
22:51:09 <LordAro> but it's the only viable one without getting lawyers involved
22:51:17 <reldred> I was starting to feel pretty cynical about how it was going to turn out, so this outcome feels like the least worst.
22:51:17 <__abigail> reldred: I'd rather say parmi than be from NSW
22:51:42 <reldred> yes, marginally better than being a new south welshman
22:51:59 <__abigail> We make our own fucking trains
22:52:19 <reldred> granted I was actually born in penrith but evactuated before I was 1yr old so functionally i'm a south australian
22:52:47 <LordAro> evacuated? are you 80?
22:56:15 <__abigail> LordAro: Bjelke-Petersen started a land invasion
22:56:38 <reldred> but realistically my immediate family did actually flea NSW due to family drama
23:08:08 <audigex> _glx_: They didn't even bother to make it run natively? lmfao, pathetic
23:10:10 <audigex> Actually just a lazy cashgrab then
23:10:30 <peter1138> Seems to be getting late.
23:26:57 <reldred> audigex: Oh absolutely
23:27:06 <reldred> Was never questioning that part
23:28:44 <reldred> It’s the dos version too, so none of the windows porting code that was written in C, so they’re dealing with Chris Sawyers raw unfiltered unadulterated 16bit x86 assembler code base 😛
23:33:38 <reldred> I think it was borland assembler? does borland even exist anymore?
23:35:37 <reldred> yeah I remember masm and nasm were quite different, would hate to think how many differences with borland turbo assembler, not exactly an easy skillset to go and hire for these days
23:36:08 <peter1138> The need for growth ruins all.
23:38:47 <reldred> sloperator sloperating sloperationally
continue to next day ⏵
