IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-09-30
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04:38:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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06:37:39 <andythenorth[d]> is the vehicle variant tree expensive to recompute?
06:37:56 <andythenorth[d]> or to put it another way, how about UI options for 'group by'? 😛
06:47:21 <locosage> after 900 compiles I suddenly realized that one of the fans on my laptop is probably dead 😅
06:50:21 <locosage> it's only trying to take off from one side 🤣
06:53:38 <LordAro> more likely it only has one fan
06:55:33 <locosage> nah, it's a gaming laptop, it has two
06:56:04 <locosage> pushes crazy amounts of air, really feels like it's trying to take off under load
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08:52:08 <mnhebi> peter1138: Not the fact you'll tear your hair out trying to make a Linux build with it?
08:52:51 <mnhebi> Well, theres just a lot of .NET that is not yet available in Linux
08:53:15 <mnhebi> so you have to constrain yourself to very specific Linux available stuff...
08:53:29 <peter1138> Okay, so you're talking about C#.
08:55:55 <mnhebi> though, now that is maui perhaps the non-availability of WPF is a moot issue.
08:56:00 <peter1138> I'm not sure why I'd be trying to "make a Linux build" with it.
09:00:15 <peter1138> andythenorth[d], not particularly expensive, just a bit of recursion.
09:01:15 <jessicathegunlady> Don't know if Discord's replies feature works with the whole IRC thing.
09:01:40 <jessicathegunlady> Heck, I've never used IRC. It's pretty alien to me.
09:02:07 <peter1138> It just prefixes with the name.
09:02:11 <peter1138> > Byte order is not compatible at /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.32/Storable.pm line 421, at src/modules/Chirpy/UI.pm line 922.
09:02:19 <peter1138> Okay, that's not an error I expected to see on a webpage :)
09:03:47 <jessicathegunlady> Aaaaahhh. Yeah. They were replying to the const comment regarding C# yesterday.
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09:20:56 <peter1138> jessicathegunlady, I eventually figured it out, but thanks :)
09:21:52 <jessicathegunlady> Heh, I thought so, but I wanted to make sure.
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10:08:59 <pickpacket> how do I figure out which compiler is used?
10:09:53 <pickpacket> "The C compiler identification is GNU 14.2.0" ?
10:10:16 <pickpacket> same for the CXX one
10:10:50 <peter1138> pickpacket, in src/fontcache/freetypefontcache.cpp, move the "include safeguards" line down to just after the freetype includes. (line 23 to line 30)
10:12:02 <peter1138> If that fixes it then I've got a patch with a few more changes like that to PR :)
10:12:02 <pickpacket> peter1138: thanks. Is this a known problem with the 15.0-beta3 version?
10:12:20 <peter1138> pickpacket, no, I'm asking you to try it now to see if it fixes it.
10:12:34 <peter1138> Obviously WE are able to compile 15.0-beta3 and master.
10:12:51 <pickpacket> errh... yeah, that's true... 😅
10:13:06 <peter1138> We wouldn't put out a release that we can't build :)
10:13:49 <peter1138> In fact, we can't, because our CI would prevent it being merged.
10:14:24 <pickpacket> I wonder when I'll get my new computer
10:14:44 <pickpacket> still using Old Faithful
10:16:03 <andythenorth[d]> 'group by livery'? 😛
10:22:40 <talltyler> I don’t know what you mean by “grouping” but when the filter only includes a variant “child”, maybe it would be better to not show the “parent” and only show the engines which match the filter?
10:22:57 <talltyler> Scare quotes because I’m not sure of the correct terminology 🙂
10:30:00 <peter1138> Oops, I made OpenGFX2 ugly :(
10:30:52 <peter1138> Yeah, so basically filtering with variants (even before badge filtering) could be better.
10:32:02 <peter1138> Simple answer is to ignore variants completely when filtering, but that's perhaps overkill in cases where a complete 'variant tree' would be shown even with filtering.
10:33:44 <peter1138> Variants were meant to de-clutter but that doesn't seem to have worked.
10:33:50 <talltyler> I think it would be a loss to ignore the tree structure when it exists. Maybe only ignore when only a single variant is shown, as in Andy’s screenshot?
10:34:26 <peter1138> pickpacket, so did it fix it?
10:34:52 <talltyler> Hmm, I guess there are two Kelpie engines shown. I guess I mean, don’t show any parent engines which don’t match the filter?
10:36:52 <locosage> I suddenly realized nesting variants makes 0 sense as being a variant is a an equivalence relation 😅
10:37:19 <peter1138> Probably allowing it was a mistake.
10:37:24 <peter1138> But it's there now.
10:37:40 <jessicathegunlady> talltyler: I wanted to suggest that, yeah.
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10:38:15 <peter1138> IIRC, xUSSR set abuses it extensively.
10:39:47 <peter1138> I could try changing it to one level and see what happens.
10:39:47 <_zephyris> peter1138: You didn't make ogfx2 ugly, you saved it from newgrf ugliness!
10:40:06 <peter1138> Iron Horse would probably work out fine.
10:40:24 <locosage> groups should just be a separate thing from variants imo
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10:41:30 <peter1138> I guess sub-levels could be useful when you have variants that are the same but slightly different model (think "regearing" or model year changes) and then there are liveries underneath that.
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10:52:32 <fairyflossy> I use sub levels for when a locomotive has multiple appearances, and each appearance has a different livery.
10:52:32 <fairyflossy> Like a steam engine with or without streamlining. One locomotives, two variants, each with their own color options as subvariants.
10:52:32 <fairyflossy> Or when a locomotive has different livery patterns, each pattern is a variant and each coloring of it is a subvariant
10:56:39 <pickpacket> peter1138: it's still compiling
10:56:48 <pickpacket> Old Faithful, y'know
10:58:08 <peter1138> I mean... you only changed that one file right, so it should start off with that when you start building again, and you'd see if it failed...
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11:01:35 <pickpacket> oh! Actually it did! And it worked :D
11:01:52 <pickpacket> some unused parameters in that file though
11:02:10 <pickpacket> peter1138: thanks :)
11:29:26 <xarick> oh, the menus are no longer click and hold
11:29:54 <xarick> it could be smarter though
11:31:11 <xarick> single items should not require 2 clicks
11:31:22 <xarick> one click to open, one to select
11:36:03 <peter1138> Yes, being inconsistent would be... inconsistent.
11:36:30 <peter1138> We were wondering about this the other day.
11:48:05 <_glx_> I'm too used to the old behaviour so I changed the setting
11:51:09 <peter1138> But we don't add settings :D
11:51:20 <_glx_> Hmm maybe some kind of drag and drop handling could support old behaviour on new one
11:51:46 <peter1138> You can still drag & release to select an item.
11:52:02 <peter1138> It just won't do that for the button itself.
11:53:00 <_glx_> When I press mouse button it opens the menu, but it doesn't close it when I release
11:54:13 <_glx_> I should test more, might be Windows specific then
11:55:00 <peter1138> If it drag & release worked before, there's no reason it shouldn't work now.
11:56:23 <peter1138> So maybe we could change the option to be Old Behaviour, Old/New Behaviour depending on there being only a single row, and New Behaviour.
12:01:31 <_glx_> Drag&release works fine on old behaviour
12:13:20 <andythenorth[d]> I think it would be interesting to explore different ways to group by, rather than trying to find a heuristic for when to hide / show variant tree, which can be multi-level
12:13:31 <andythenorth[d]> 'group by' is an established pattern
12:13:34 <peter1138> Windows is doing something wrong then, because it works fine on new behaviour for me too.
12:14:01 <andythenorth[d]> group by badge stem and trailing value might be crap, might be good, dunno
12:14:42 <peter1138> Any mac OS user able to test it there as well?
12:15:09 <jessicathegunlady> ~~I mean windows is doing a lot wrong~~
12:16:04 <andythenorth[d]> I can, I need to read the question better 😛
12:16:41 <peter1138> "Does drag & release still work on toolbar menus while the new toolbar click behaviour is active?"
12:35:09 <cu-kai`> not sure if you wanted more than one opinion/tester, but yes, the old way does still work while the new behaviour is enabled.
12:35:19 <cu-kai`> now i shall return to the old behaviour forever :)
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12:36:03 <cu-kai> (also, i really should upgrade my mac already, this tahoe update is terrible on intel hardware)
12:39:13 <peter1138> cu-kai, that was on mac, yes?
12:39:43 <peter1138> Confirmation on Windows also useful I think :)
12:40:12 <_glx_> Need to retest (could be user error)
12:43:58 <cu-kai> peter1138: yes, i compiled latest master to test that & ensured the traditional behaviour setting was off
12:47:49 <andythenorth[d]> I tested on Sequioa 15.6.1
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13:29:56 <locosage> sometimes it seems like you hate it when people try to do anything with openttd code
13:30:40 <locosage> I was using MakePNGImage to make some pngs for debugging, why do you had to make it absolutely impossible to be called directly :/
13:31:18 <_glx_> ok user error actually, drag&release works
13:36:07 <_glx_> it's just I don't usually drag if the item I want is already selected
13:52:31 <peter1138> Getting the a screenshot provider and calling its MakeImage() is unlikely to be very difficult.
13:54:17 <locosage> as I understand it now the only way is to loop through GetProviders and find png one
13:54:57 <locosage> there is a code that does that loop but it only looks for provider requested in config file
13:55:03 <locosage> not png specifically
13:55:32 <locosage> so I ended up just copy-pasting the function
13:56:07 <peter1138> Just call GetScreenshotProvider(), it'll get the one that's configured. If you need it to be png, that is the default unless it's configured otherwise, in which case, don't configure it otherwise.
13:57:11 <LordAro> even for debugging, if i explicitly configured a different format (is it only in the config file as well?) i'd expect debug screenshots to output in that same format
13:57:42 <locosage> these images are not screenshots
13:59:19 <locosage> pretty cool stuff actually
13:59:50 <locosage> was looking for them when someone posted voronoi stuff in civilisation mapgen but couldn't find images
14:00:08 <LordAro> std::ranges::find(ProviderManager<ScreenshotProvider>::GetProviders(), "png", &ScreenshotProvider::GetName)->MakeImage(...);
14:00:34 <LordAro> you could even add an optional parameter to GetScreenshotProvider easily enough
14:02:00 <locosage> and then have merge conflicts every time you want to reshuffle api again?
14:02:09 <locosage> copy-pasting entire function seems way more future-proof
14:02:11 <peter1138> Bah, another USB device dies due to `device descriptor read/64, error -71`
14:03:43 <LordAro> this is what happens when your merge target is moving, yes
14:04:43 <LordAro> i can guarantee peter nor anyone else has any idea what custom code you've written, so implying that we're somehow targeting you is uncalled for
14:05:21 <kuhnovic> Seems rather odd to be complaining about merge conflicts when you're maintaining a patch pack. Especially the way you are merging...
14:07:02 <locosage> I'm not implying you're targeting me specifically, it's just that you had a perfecly fine general purpose function for png creation, what possessed you to turn it into a screenshot-specific thing with closed api?
14:07:21 <locosage> now anyone trying to add pngs for anything else than screenshots will have to unhide it again
14:08:03 <LordAro> which is trivial to do
14:08:09 <LordAro> i've given you two options already
14:08:38 <LordAro> i believe the reasons behind the change were listed in the PR
14:09:46 <locosage> two options using screenshot api
14:10:12 <locosage> imaging someone adds a way to export network schema into image, will you accept pr that uses either of your two options?
14:10:23 <peter1138> It's called "ScreenshotProvider" because 1) it's just a name, 2) it was extracted from screenshot.cpp, 3) the calling parameters for MakeImage() are exactly the same as before.
14:10:26 <andythenorth[d]> could we generate rivers by find a coast seed point, then projecting a pregenerated tree?
14:10:53 <andythenorth[d]> like one of the ones from that image, which looks like blood vessels in a biological eye
14:11:55 <peter1138> As opposed to a... mechanical or electronic eye?
14:13:04 <andythenorth[d]> as opposed to yes
14:13:21 <LordAro> locosage: in that theoretical scenario i'd imagine the setting to be renamed to be more generic
14:13:26 <_glx_> adding an optional arg to GetScreenshotProvider() doesn't seem a bad idea
14:14:33 <locosage> LordAro: yeah, and everything else screenshot-named
14:15:26 <locosage> basically meaning anyone adding anything image-related will to go through entire image processing code and rename/refactor it
14:15:38 <LordAro> it's only just now that i've twigged that you're complaining about the name
14:15:44 <LordAro> rather than the "closed api"
14:16:10 <LordAro> there's an awful lot of poorly named things in computing
14:16:11 <_glx_> can be renamed ImageProvider when it's actually required 😉
14:16:17 <LordAro> this is not one of them
14:17:09 * LordAro looks pointedly at one-use cryptographic numbers
14:17:39 <dwfreed> LordAro: I believe that name was accurate when they were invented
14:17:59 <dwfreed> LordAro: I would look more pointedly at "AI" :D
14:18:27 <_jgr_> `git merge -s ours` exists if you really don't like some upstream change 😛
14:18:31 <locosage> well, it's both, all the screenshot classes could've been added while keeping MakePNGImage intact
14:21:18 <peter1138> Just remember to guard that with ifdefs for WITH_PNG. Or just use the provider interface which is design to be agnostic.
14:21:52 <locosage> generally speaking I feel like a lot of recent changes are making code more obfuscated and harder to work with
14:22:00 <locosage> especially for new contributors
14:23:27 <rito12_51026> yay, I've just compiled gcc
14:24:21 <peter1138> LordAro, by the way, heightmap.cpp has both png and bmp specific code, so it possible a rename and moving those could be useful/tidier.
14:27:26 <peter1138> Although that code is rather... heightmap oriented, taking only greyscale data. So perhaps not.
14:28:59 <andythenorth[d]> maybe I could parse a bunch of river-ish bitmaps into LUTS
14:29:02 <andythenorth[d]> then put them in GS
14:29:17 <andythenorth[d]> then generate maps without rivers, and let GS do it in the window of free opcodes at game start
14:29:32 <andythenorth[d]> it's just Turtle
14:30:41 <andythenorth[d]> hmm so much about landscape gen in games is kind of weird
14:31:05 <andythenorth[d]> lots of approaches that are purely algorithmic, because "it's the only way"
14:31:15 <andythenorth[d]> but all of them use pregenerated perlin noise as the seed 😛
14:31:18 <andythenorth[d]> disconnect much?
14:36:08 <locosage> I beg your pardon but I'm not using perlin noise :/
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16:12:24 <Cellar> hello. took a while to notice but kinda surprised there's a DMU but no EMU in the basic game.
16:14:34 <Cellar> how hard would it be to add a one-station-look-ahead to the routing algorithm? As in, it looks to the next station, sees that this will involve turning the train around, and prefers-if-available the platform that doesn't go through, or the nearest depot that way instead of the other way.
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17:04:59 <peter1138> Looks like we go straight for fallback.
17:06:22 <peter1138> It also initialises the UnicodeGlyphMaps, which is pointless because we don't have any of the sprite font here... :)
17:11:36 <_glx_> should be fine to try OpenTTD fonts before fallback
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17:50:36 <zanooda2000> locosage: Ugh… looks like mesh of vessels in eyes with that center circle being "focus" of most clear vision
17:52:52 <peter1138> Hmm, okay. Fonts *should* already be loaded.
17:57:29 <peter1138> Okay, figured it out :)
17:59:56 <LordAro> Cellar: the base game definitely has electric vehicles
18:15:24 <peter1138> Pics added. "Proof"
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19:34:35 <peter1138> Oh, somehow I lost the emscripten include :)
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19:36:34 <peter1138> Hmm, strictly speaking the include isn't needed because CMakeLists excludes the file completely.
19:40:29 <peter1138> Something like that.
19:49:38 <peter1138> Hmm. So should we remove #ifdefs if the file is already excluded by CMakeLists?
19:49:53 <peter1138> We do in some cases already, so it's inconsistent.
19:52:07 <peter1138> e.g. `SoundLoader_Opus` is not guarded.
19:53:58 <peter1138> Okay, making that consistent seems like another job :p
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20:03:10 <peter1138> I don't get that one.
20:20:30 <jessicathegunlady> Huh, they look kinda familiar.
21:00:36 <locosage> wonder if I should rebrand grf-py to something more catchy (and searchable)...
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