IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-09-02
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01:18:12 <audigex> talltyler: Yeah if doing push pull/reversing nonsense then we probably just need an “is driving vehicle?” callback
01:18:12 <audigex> If there’s a driving vehicle at the back of the consist, it can reverse
01:18:12 <audigex> GRF authors can presumably then do things like check which way round the vehicle is, for asymmetric units
01:18:36 <audigex> Either way it doesn’t feel like a railtype issue
01:19:56 <talltyler> Property, not callback, but yeah that’s my plan
01:28:46 <audigex> Callback would be much nicer so that I can do things like switch it if the vehicle is facing the wrong way, or only allow it to be a driving vehicle based on being attached to compatible units etc
01:28:47 <reldred> Personally I want everything to be able to reverse, but maybe if it doesn’t have a driving vehicle it just crawls. I don’t ever want to see something magic flip.
01:29:41 <reldred> That’s my only contribution I have to make to this *goes back to my hole*
01:30:11 <audigex> I don’t think everything should be able to reverse, that would be confusing for the user for one thing - but maybe it could be possible with a “driving max speed” property for eg guards vans or low speed driving cabooses
01:33:56 <reldred> Yeah that would be nice
01:34:51 <reldred> But yeah for me personally I never ever wanna see a train magic flip
01:35:18 <reldred> I’ll build whatever silly infrastructure I need to to ensure that, which is currently lots of return loops lol
01:38:09 <talltyler> I posted a GitHub Discussion about my plan but in short, both of your needs should be covered. All trains can back up but trains without a cab on the back will only do so if you tell them, at reduced speed. Otherwise it magic flips to avoid confusing players.
01:41:44 <reldred> Yeah I’ll accept that
01:42:22 <reldred> I might make an option for JGRPP to force disable magic flip as an expert/masochist thing, but for mainline OprnTTD that’s a good call.
01:43:12 <reldred> I’ve even got an option in JGRPP to disable road vehicles giving up and magically phasing through vehicles blocking them. No way known id pitch that to a trunk OpenTTD audience, it’s cruel.
02:34:31 <emperorjake> reldred: That's genuinely useful when I need to stop traffic on a busy road to do some rebuilding
02:35:45 <reldred> I mostly added it to make my own life difficult not make other people’s lives easier 🤣
02:36:41 <reldred> I like features that force me to have to build infrastructure rather than just be an arbitrary cost penalty etc
02:36:55 <reldred> Since buildable tiles are the One True Currency in game
02:37:27 <reldred> It’s why drive through depots ala PR8480 appeals to me so much, it creates a new challenge I have to build around
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04:39:50 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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06:35:41 <andythenorth> endlessly, railtype co-operation discussions get stuck on gauges
06:36:07 <andythenorth> what if gauge was an action 0 static prop?
06:36:15 <andythenorth> (as a list, because of the dual gauge nonsense)
06:43:04 <andythenorth> could literally be defined in millimetres, with NML constants to substitute "STANDARDGAUGE" etc
06:44:12 <andythenorth> then *instead* of letting grfs decide how fine-grained to handle the gauges *give the player a UI for it*
06:44:37 <andythenorth> so if someome wants to merge 1067mm narrow gauge with 1543mm standard gauge, let the player (or server owner) decide
07:07:20 <pickpacket> I've ordered a new (refurbished) computer. Waiting for it to arrive before playing again 🙂 Believe it or not but I'm actually giving up my old faithful
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08:33:56 <andythenorth> pff....what gauge would monorail be? 🙂
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09:04:18 <LordAro> that stopped being true quite a long time ago
09:31:26 <peter1138> Uh, I somehow have a directory in my ~ named ~.
09:31:49 <LordAro> be very careful in deleting it :p
09:32:06 <peter1138> I should definitely recursively force delete that...
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10:22:33 <peter1138> > Planning Time: 0.499ms Execution Time: 3.146 ms
10:22:45 <peter1138> > Planning Time: 0.073 ms Execution Time: 0.041 ms
10:23:01 <peter1138> I guess that is possibly worth doing.
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10:39:12 <peter1138> At this rate, 15.0 for April 1st?
10:39:25 <peter1138> Either 2026, 2027, or beyond...
10:45:30 <peter1138> Does anyone read tt-forums without it being zoomed in? For me the font is a bit on the small side.
10:46:15 <peter1138> `font-size: 10px` is definitely dating it a bit :-)
10:54:47 <peter1138> I suppose "Does anyone read tt-forums" would've been usefuller ;-)
10:55:30 <talltyler> I read it..occasionally.
10:56:06 <peter1138> I tweaked your 15.0-beta3 post, hope you don't mind.
10:56:09 <Rubidium> I'd reckon anyone using LLMs does... by proxy...
10:56:39 <peter1138> Those should be blocked now due to causing excessive load issues.
10:57:44 <talltyler> Ah, thank you for specifying that
11:06:29 <pickpacket> peter1138, talltyler: I read the forums a few times a month
11:06:42 <pickpacket> especially if there's some interesting thread going on
11:07:07 <peter1138> Don't worry, it was rhetorical.
11:07:09 <reldred> peter1138: Might be me getting old but I zoom a lot of things in these days…
11:08:02 <peter1138> reldred, the days of high-res screens meaning you can fit more data on are gone. You just get smoother curves.
11:08:33 <reldred> I do still like my 3440x1440 panel
11:10:24 <peter1138> Two 2560×1440 over here.
11:13:37 <reldred> I’m going to get a 1920x1200 to sit beside it at some point, but too much money needs to go out the door on other things in the near term 😒
11:14:01 <reldred> Still need to buy a fridge and a washer
11:28:45 <rito12_51026> peter1138: It is similar size to what I have set in other programs
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14:18:43 <peter1138> I guess pople use it so it is good.
14:21:58 <andythenorth> "good enough" is an under-used phrase
14:22:11 <andythenorth> along with "survivable"
14:25:29 <peter1138> Currently I'm struggling with bug reports coming through only as chat on MS Teams, instead of as a bug report in gitea.
14:27:28 <peter1138> Well, people issues.
14:28:04 <peter1138> It's a bit like the "everyone knows" bug reports we get as random chat messages, as most of the time we don't see even those because they're hidden in some Discord chat somewhere.
14:29:11 <peter1138> But if it's good and will work, I can live with it being external. Be a shame to lose the automatic linking and stuff but if they're not using that now, then not much different.
15:06:20 <Rubidium> peter1138: is it purely for tickets, or do you want the whole sprint planning stuff as well? If it's for the former, then Jira might be a bit bloated for what you want.
15:06:58 <Rubidium> I'm often annoyed by the slowness of the thing, be it hosted locally or in the cloud
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16:44:49 <sipos> Hi, As I understand it, in 14.0+, you can have calendar time frozen (so vehicles never become obsolete and new ones never become available etc), but only if time is in wall-clock time units (so production is in X minutes rather than X months). Is this correct, and, if so, does anyone know if anyone is working on a patch to make it possible to have frozen/variable calendar time in either wall-clock time units or calendar time units? I am using terms
16:44:52 <sipos> I ask because I prefer the calendar time units, but would like frozen calendar time. I haven't looked at the code, but it seems like it should be possible to have calendar time units and frozen calendar time, and if nobody is trying to implement this, I may have a look and possibly do it (obviously no promise - I haven't looked at what it'd involve yet, but looking at and building the code would be my next step, and I don't want to spend time doing even
16:44:56 <sipos> that if this is something being done already/planned already).
16:45:42 <sipos> I guess maybe there would be a more appropriate forum to ask? Is there somewhere all OpenTTD developers check somewhat regularly?
16:48:01 <sipos> I guess I'm also interested if there is some sort of formal roadmap somewhere. I'm curious what is in/planned to be in, say, 15.0 vs 14.1 etc.
16:50:35 <peter1138> The only reason the two time modes exist is because time cannot be frozen (or changed) in calendar mode.
16:57:26 <Rubidium> there are no formal plans. Formally what's in the 14 branch will get into 14.1 (although that's very likely to never come). What's in master (before creation of the 15 branch) will be in 15.0 (given there are betas for 15.0, you can check the changelog of the last beta to see what's added/changed)
16:57:59 <sipos> Rubidium, Thanks, that makes sense.
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17:00:51 <talltyler> Frozen calendar time using calendar units makes no sense. They are used for economic stats, like “production last month.” If time is frozen, the month never progresses, so you’d never see any new stats.
17:01:49 <talltyler> What you propose would be easier than creating wallclock units, if only it actually worked. (It doesn’t, which is why we created wallclock units)
17:03:56 <sipos> I can't see why one couldn't display things as X/month etc instead of X/second, so use calendar time units to display things, even though the calendar time is frozen. Yes, it'd be odd to have something say 903 produced in the last month, when it is Jan and has been Jan for many of these "months", but 903 produced in the last minute is only slightly less confusing, as this minute is still in a different time system to others in the game and still different
17:03:56 <sipos> to wall-clock time (if you ever pause the game or save and come back to it). Essentially, work as now in wall-clock time units and frozen calendar time, with 27ms ticks, but instead of displaying in wall-clock time units, display in calendar time units, but them be slightly different calendar time units than you would have in calendar time units mode (because of the shorter tick time). It may be that I just need to look at the source code to better
17:03:57 <sipos> understand. I think, ultimately, since I don't actually want to be able to change the calendar time rate, all I want is to be able to change some labels, but maybe that is just stupid, since the labels would equate to some fictional time scale, instead of some sort-of real-time (bar pauses and time between saving and loading) timescale.
17:04:15 <sipos> Maybe what I am thinking is just a stupid idea, and I need to just get used to wall-clock time units.
17:06:43 <sipos> I think I'll pull some version of the code, build it, and understand the time better, anmd also try to understand the issue I posted about earlier (I don't understand why original_windows wasn't presented as a music option in the game when I think I had the files in the right place for it to be (definitely with the correct MD5 sums), even though it doesn't actually matter - it is just something I don't understand, not something that doesn't do what I need
17:06:43 <sipos> - original_dos music is fine (as is OpenMSX).
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17:32:17 <talltyler> What you're describing is running wallclock time, but changing the labels of all the units from "minute" to "month". I guess if you don't care that your units don't describe what is actually happening in the game, you can do whatever you want. 🙂
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18:17:59 <sipos> Yeah, talltyler, I realised now I am just looking at changing units displayed. I'd dispute that months don't describe what is actually happening in-game, but it is just semantics either way, so not worth discussing. Clearly I should just get used to using wall-clock units.
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19:29:21 <LordAro> a "circular span" would be ever so slightly nicer
19:34:56 <peter1138> Yes, but I'm not going to add a 3rdparty library just for that :)
19:35:54 <LordAro> nah, add boost just for a single tiny data structure
19:38:45 <LordAro> but i guess neither us nor stdlib have an existing circular iterator?
19:38:49 <LordAro> i lose track of what gets added
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