⏴ go to previous day
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04:37:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] eints-sync[bot] pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/011fca6e217fd50fb393d1732845e718e27ef29f

04:37:37  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)

04:37:52  <jfkuayue> What about AI-created NewGRFs?

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06:28:10  <andythenorth> irrelevant

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06:35:24  <reldred> newgrfs already are in a mixed license state so the main legal issue with ai generated content & licensing in a GPL project is moot

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07:10:47  <truebrain> Look at me, I am pretty!

07:11:18  <truebrain> (Doesn't work for IRC users, but who wants to be on an ancient dinosaur anyway 😛 )

07:12:19  * Rubidium 

07:19:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#issuecomment-3239024824

07:36:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#pullrequestreview-3170927804

07:38:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#issuecomment-3239038528

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07:58:48  <kuhnovic> "LLMs killed openttd"

08:02:36  * Rubidium assumes andythenorth was not reacting to my contribution

08:02:57  <andythenorth> No, it occurred to me independently

08:03:49  <andythenorth> GPL has always depended on contributor asserting copyright, not reviewer verifying copyright

08:04:16  <andythenorth> Well that’s not quite the right framing but

08:05:07  <andythenorth> It’s the right of authorship that is significant, not the means of production

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08:27:25  <andythenorth> Seems in Germany *all* AI generated works might be copyright-free

08:27:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ahyangyi commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#issuecomment-3239090928

08:27:46  <andythenorth> https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Themen/Nav_Themen/240305_FAQ_KI_Urheberrecht.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

08:28:32  <andythenorth> Alleged summary: Only mental creations by a person can be subject to copyright

08:56:56  <andythenorth> https://arxiv.org/html/2408.02487v1

08:58:42  <andythenorth> Unusually articulate HN thread about the issue https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44976568

08:59:59  <andythenorth> Copyright wasn’t established in a context where  machines are the main source of production for the artefacts

09:00:56  <andythenorth> Are the machines also source of production for the semantics. Or do the semantics only arise from the human generated training data?

09:16:02  <dh1> yes?

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09:18:56  <FLHerne> I don't think a strongly anti-LLM policy will age well, they're clearly becoming very widely used tools

09:20:25  <dh1> policies don't need to age well

09:20:34  <dh1> they need to be useful in their moment

09:20:42  <FLHerne> and frankly there'd be an irony in /this project/ adopting a very maximalist interpretation of copyright law, if that's the actual concern which I doubt

09:20:57  <dh1> lol yeah

09:21:34  <dh1> can you imagine how shit rollercoaster tycoon would have been if chris sawyer used ai instead of hand-sewing every bit with his teeth

09:23:12  <FLHerne> I can't think of any sane definition that would make LLM outputs a copyright infringement of their training data, but not the process leading to ottd 0.1

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11:17:22  <andythenorth> hmm

11:17:30  <andythenorth> remember when OpenTTD was fun? 😄

11:17:39  <andythenorth> it's all got a bit grumpy

11:17:49  <andythenorth> might be a UK thing

11:18:04  <andythenorth> I noticed when I got back from Croatia, UK is in a sour mood 😛

11:18:10  <andythenorth> politics, economy, etc

11:18:24  <andythenorth> shall we release OpenTTD 15 and rejoice?

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13:22:05  <peter1138> What, skip any betas an RCs?

13:33:10  <andythenorth> Done 2 betas….

13:33:17  <andythenorth> RC next?

13:45:16  <_glx_> nah a new beta is needed, many changes

13:54:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#issuecomment-3239281382

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14:15:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #14551: Fix #14506, aac3a5b6: Restore prefilling of _stations_nearby_list https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14551

14:27:04  <_glx_> hmm actually it might be better to kill the static global

14:29:20  <peter1138> +1

14:29:32  <_glx_> but seems not easy to do

14:29:38  <peter1138> :(

14:32:46  <_glx_> hmm `AddNearbyStation` first iterate `_deleted_stations_nearby`, but all the calls happen after `_deleted_stations_nearby.clear()`

14:32:55  <_glx_> it's a mess

14:34:59  <_glx_> oh my bad, wrong reading, I missed the filling of deleted list

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15:17:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#issuecomment-3239337441

16:09:53  <kuhnovic> Oh I seem to have deleted my comment. If Peter can live with it then most other people can too I guess.

16:18:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX2] 2TallTyler opened issue #214: Concrete bridge railing clips with road https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenGFX2/issues/214

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16:26:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #14552: Add: Setting to ignore height restrictions when bridging over stations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14552

16:29:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #14551: Fix #14506, aac3a5b6: Restore prefilling of _stations_nearby_list https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14551#pullrequestreview-3171117088

16:30:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler closed issue #14544: [Crash]: When adding a Spread Station https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/14544

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16:39:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #14552: Add: Setting to ignore height restrictions when bridging over stations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14552#issuecomment-3239391886

16:40:25  <talltyler> "Tunnelbridge Anarchy" 😛

16:40:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14552: Add: Setting to ignore height restrictions when bridging over stations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14552#issuecomment-3239392717

16:42:07  <kuhnovic> talltyler: Sounds like a Millencolin album title

16:47:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #14553: [Bug]: Number of parameters mechanism in NewGRF parameters window for pre-Action 14 GRFs no longer works as expected since 3a310f18 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/14553

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17:26:35  <squirejames> kuhnovic: Or a ride on Rollercoaster Tycoon, fittingly

17:26:35  <squirejames> "Tunnelbridge Anarchy was great!"

17:40:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #14554: Fix #14553: Parameter configuration of pre-action 14 NewGRFs did not work. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14554

17:51:21  <peter1138> Turns out my dinner I just pulled out of the oven is... hot.

17:51:56  <andythenorth> mmm

17:52:00  <andythenorth> dinner is a good idea

17:54:35  <peter1138> I was considering a liquid dinner.

17:59:02  <andythenorth> you mean Angel Delight?

17:59:05  <andythenorth> or jelly?

17:59:08  <andythenorth> they're not hot though

17:59:11  <andythenorth> gravy?

18:02:51  <peter1138> Yes, sure.

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18:03:29  <peter1138> Although the consistency of this pre-made 'finest' cottage pie is pretty liquidy, tbh.

18:06:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14552: Add: Setting to ignore height restrictions when bridging over stations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14552#pullrequestreview-3171144461

18:08:59  <andythenorth> Tesco is it?

18:10:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #14537: Doc: Define policy on AI usage in OpenTTD development https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14537#pullrequestreview-3171145503

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18:27:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #14555: Fix: Industry accept/produce when not contiguous range from 0 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14555

18:31:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann updated pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548

18:40:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann updated pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548

18:42:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #14552: Add: Setting to ignore height restrictions when bridging over stations https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14552

18:46:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler approved pull request #14554: Fix #14553: Parameter configuration of pre-action 14 NewGRFs did not work. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14554#pullrequestreview-3171161046

18:47:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #14554: Fix #14553: Parameter configuration of pre-action 14 NewGRFs did not work. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14554

18:47:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #14553: [Bug]: Number of parameters mechanism in NewGRF parameters window for pre-Action 14 GRFs no longer works as expected since 3a310f18 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/14553

18:49:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] rubidium42 commented on pull request #220: Update: add Maori language https://github.com/OpenTTD/eints/pull/220#issuecomment-3239454818

19:05:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#pullrequestreview-3171176940

19:06:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#issuecomment-3239472524

19:11:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #14551: Fix #14506, aac3a5b6: Restore prefilling of _stations_nearby_list https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14551

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19:11:14  <peter1138> I mean.

19:11:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #14506: [Crash]: Trying to build multi-station tram station https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/14506

19:14:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#pullrequestreview-3171188596

19:18:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#pullrequestreview-3171191234

19:20:13  <peter1138> Well.

19:20:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann updated pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548

19:21:24  <peter1138> Bit a wreck though, isn't it?

19:21:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann updated pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548

19:22:24  <peter1138> Not actually fixing the issue, just saying it's fixed.

19:22:36  <talltyler> Time to release a beta? Just needs someone to update the changelog PR, I can update the website post PR.

19:22:46  <peter1138> (Well it is now.)

19:22:57  <peter1138> Someone needs to update the changelog PR yes.

19:23:04  <peter1138> Sorry, Someone™.

19:33:40  <talltyler> Paging LordAro 😉

19:33:55  <talltyler> (The Someone who volunteered and self-assigned the changelog PR)

19:34:45  <talltyler> I still have some PRs I want to get into 15, but the beta doesn’t need to wait on them

19:39:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#pullrequestreview-3171199277

19:57:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rito13 commented on pull request #14548: Codechange: Add unit tests for tile creation [No LLM] https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14548#issuecomment-3239510683

20:04:15  <andythenorth> talltyler: 16 is approaching…. 😉

20:06:34  <digitalfox> talltyler: Maybe create a new PR and close that haunted one? 😄

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20:39:27  <talltyler> Haunted?

20:46:13  <peter1138> LordAro, what are your nice wheels?

20:48:52  <digitalfox> talltyler: None wants to get near it 😄

20:57:54  <_glx_> oh no, it's just a pain to do changelog stuff

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21:24:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] diekmann opened pull request #14556: Codechange: Uniformly name Tile parameters t https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14556

21:29:12  <peter1138> Seriously...

21:29:21  <peter1138> Doibn

21:29:24  <peter1138> hewrigohuioerhgioerh

21:38:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #14556: Codechange: Uniformly name Tile parameters t https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14556#issuecomment-3239554648

21:40:04  <LordAro> peter1138: hmm?

21:41:13  <LordAro> talltyler: will have a look tomorrow

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21:48:52  <_glx_> hmm I remember we actually used `tile` for `Tile`s to reduce confusion with `TileIndex`

21:49:28  <_glx_> `TileIndex` usually being `t`

21:50:06  <_glx_> and yes it's another useless PR

21:55:46  <peter1138> https://fuzzle.me.uk/files/ba6c2eee-8b84-4a11-9177-803d4889f8b1 Whoops...

21:56:32  <_glx_> I don't see anything wrong 🙂

22:00:57  <reldred> peter1138: Neat! If you can turn them around the right way 😄

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22:21:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #14557: Change: Provide road and rail overlay sprites for bridge decks. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14557

22:21:32  <peter1138> Failed at matching up the images :o

22:21:42  <reldred> That’s awesome though.

22:22:12  <reldred> So good for bridge sets that don’t provide maglev sprites

22:22:36  <reldred> I’m fond of base TTD maglev tracks and they get neglected

22:23:52  <peter1138> "Time to release a beta?" "Uh... su... re...?"

22:24:37  <peter1138> Perhaps it should require a bridge flag to be set, instead of assuming.

22:24:49  <peter1138> (That's harder to test with existing bridges though.)

22:36:50  <reldred> Test for any loaded grf that touches bridges?

22:40:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #14557: Change: Provide road and rail overlay sprites for bridge decks. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/14557

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23:07:08  <peter1138> That's what it does.

23:08:46  <reldred> Nice

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23:15:38  <reldred> I’m looking forward to this, I’ve been wanting to do a mostly vanilla+ sorta TTD game for a while but I do love my bridge sets (but they sure don’t love Simon fosters maglev tracks)

23:16:23  <reldred> Fixes the horse bridge issue too

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continue to next day ⏵