IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-07-30
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00:36:37 <reldred> Now we just need an api to push all the data out to influx db so I can just chart it all in grafana
00:37:54 <peter1138[d]> Well, the game wouldn't need to collect anything then, just push it out.
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04:47:43 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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10:19:15 <truebrain> If even MSFS does it...... 😛
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11:05:36 <masterhellish> I'm sorry if this has been discussed before but... What are the chances that OpenTTD version 16 is the update where we increase the number of companies that can partake in a multiplayer game? 😁
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11:20:43 <LordAro> I don't think anyone would be bold enough to give that a number
11:21:17 <LordAro> One of the blockers is a lack of distinct company colours, which is being worked on
11:21:48 <LordAro> And as I think you know there isn't a significant amount of technical stuff blocking more companies
11:21:59 <LordAro> But doing it in the "correct" way? Who knows
11:22:04 <LordAro> We don't have roadmaps for a reason :)
11:26:47 <peter1138> Lack of distinct colours is the least of the problems imho :)
11:28:19 <peter1138> The possibly 3 distinct owners on one tile is a problem.
11:28:36 <LordAro> why is that not a problem now?
11:29:39 <peter1138> Unique company colours is not a technical problem, it's just a deliberate limitation that can easily be removed.
11:31:41 <peter1138> Step 1: Decide what the limit should actually be...
11:32:35 <kuhnovic> I just saw the thumbnail of MH's latest video, I'm afraid of what he's going to ask for 😆
11:33:14 <peter1138> i.e. there's not much point increasing to 31 if increasing to 63 or 127 or 255 is a similar amount of work.
11:34:22 <rito12_51026> because it is 64*64
11:34:45 <peter1138> And 16384 is 128*128. What's the relevance.
11:34:51 <rito12_51026> and biggest map size
11:35:28 <peter1138> 64*64 is the smallest map size.
11:35:59 <rito12_51026> 4096 x 4096 is the biggest
11:36:04 <peter1138> kuhnovic, better documentation on how to iterate cargo script lists, I hope :)
11:36:40 <peter1138> Sure, but what does map area have to do with anything.
11:37:53 <peter1138> Okay, so the thumbnail is 500 AIs.
11:38:28 <peter1138> Do we actually want to design changes to allow that, or is that a Xarick situation?
11:38:50 <rito12_51026> or 16777216 as it would allow one RGB color per company
11:39:23 <peter1138> What's special about 500, why not 1000?
11:40:14 <peter1138> In terms of redesign, does each tile need to store owners?
11:41:22 <peter1138> e.g. owners of stations, depots, etc. could be moved to the pool object.
11:43:18 <peter1138> But there's little point if we still need per-tile storage.
11:45:50 <_glx_> Some objects already store owner, it would "just" cost an indirect access
11:45:58 <peter1138> A hard limit of 250-ish is logical because you can still store owners in a single byte.
11:46:21 <rito12_51026> peter1138: let's implement communism, every tile is owned by everyone, so everyone can build, drive and destroy buildings on it
11:46:59 <peter1138> (But a hard limit of 250-ish doesn't allow 500 AIs to fight it out.)
11:47:27 <peter1138> _glx_, yes, moving owner to pool objects
11:47:42 <peter1138> ... helps them, but but not the tiles that don't have off-map storage.
11:48:30 <_glx_> Yeah and usually those tiles don't have much free space already
11:49:00 <peter1138> I have a document in my tree that loosely describes a different way of doing things, but it's only a document.
11:50:29 <_glx_> 3D map, so we can have real bridges and tunnels
11:51:31 <_glx_> The pain to determine what is clicked 🙂
11:51:58 <peter1138> That's a problem to solve once it's a problem.
11:52:15 <peter1138> My concept is TileParts.
11:52:48 <peter1138> So there is a still a map array, but it's very basic. There are then tile parts that describe what's on top, and there can be multiple parts for each tile.
11:52:59 <locosage> Imo company limit should only be increased if there is no downside to it. Performance or memory usage are more important than having the ability to let 500 AIs battle it out
11:53:39 <peter1138> "No downside" allowed means we can't do it.
11:53:47 <_glx_> Replacing the array of m* with an array of vector of things
11:53:55 <locosage> Well, no significant downside...
11:54:04 <peter1138> There absolutely must be more memory usage somewhere.
11:54:34 <peter1138> _glx_, probably not an array of vectors, that's a bit too heavy :)
11:54:56 <peter1138> That's 24 bytes per tile without any actual data.
11:55:22 <locosage> Somewhere yes, but having like extra map array just for that is already a bit too much.
11:55:22 <peter1138> (Less if you use a non-std vector that doesn't use size_t for everything.)
11:56:55 <locosage> With like 3000-4000 practical total vehicle limit there isn't much to do for 100 companies anyway
11:59:16 <_glx_> locosage: 15 AIs can already cause long ticks
11:59:53 <peter1138> truebrain, any ideas we can copy from that? :D
12:03:51 <_glx_> Hmm it should be possible to spread AIs on multiple ticks (we already spread garbage collection)
12:06:02 <masterhellish> I mean yes my latest video might be a little bit of a confusion point in this particular conversation. The main reason I ask is when I get to go with the community sometimes there's 3040 nearly fifty people wanting to play at the same time and it'd be nice if they all could have their own company. and presumably other groups within the communities in similar situations
12:07:45 <masterhellish> sorry maybe I should have included that with my original question I have not put two and two together with the scheduled release of today's video
12:13:57 <LordAro> extra players can be difficult for performance too :p
12:14:58 <masterhellish> That is also true. that's why I try and keep my public games to around 3 or 4 hours. we tried to do a 24 hour one once and it ground to a halt after about 20
12:16:37 <peter1138> The main reason I focus on that is upping a limit without a good plan just means you have another limit that someone wants to go past.
12:16:53 <peter1138> See also rail types, road types, cargo types...
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12:48:54 <lucafiorini> _glx_: Omg this would be revolutionary
12:49:14 <lucafiorini> Actual metro systems and underground stations
12:49:40 <talltyler> If we did that, we could justify calling it OpenTTD 2 😛
13:00:24 <ahyangyi> And those combined road-rail bridges and huge stations where trains, buses and metros arrive at different levels?
13:09:17 <rito12_51026> Aren't roads on one tile two way and rails only one way?
13:13:12 <ahyangyi> rito12_51026: You can build one-way roads too
14:17:52 <lucafiorini> In my dream transport game there is no separation between trams and trains, you just get to draw tracks on street and boom tramway
14:18:36 <lucafiorini> But the way ottd works that would never work
14:21:06 <wensimehrp> lucafiorini: sounds like simutrans
14:21:35 <wensimehrp> simuutrans does have streetcars as trains but the way they work is kinda awkward
14:22:19 <wensimehrp> for example you can't put two pieces of streetcar track parallel in one tile
14:22:31 <wensimehrp> since they work as trail tracks
14:27:02 <notluke2578> lucafiorini: Sacramento northern recreation when
14:43:00 <lucafiorini> Then I'd argue that single road lanes should work like railways.
14:43:00 <lucafiorini> It would also probably make the scale better
14:43:20 <lucafiorini> (buildings would prob need to get larger)
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14:58:08 <lucafiorini> lucafiorini: With this you could have complex intersections too
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16:09:18 <peter1138> Why bother with tiles if they aren't your smallest unit?
16:27:49 <LordAro> peter1138: you could make smooth turns that go over multiple tiles
16:27:57 <LordAro> no need for straight bridges or tunnels either
16:28:01 <LordAro> oh wait, that's locomotion ;)
16:29:55 <dwfreed> I still have that game somewhere
16:32:56 <Flygon> my brain will explode the day we have flexible viaducts and bridges in OpenTTD hahaha
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17:57:26 <truebrain> peter1138: Yes: don't do it like they did it 😛
17:57:39 <truebrain> Many mods crash in WASM world, from what I read
17:57:41 <truebrain> not really stable 😄
18:35:04 <Heiki> Is there something wrong with the Cargo History graphs or am I missing something? “Transported” appears to be always the same as “Produced”, even when nothing has been transported (20250730-master-gfe95782047)
19:07:35 <wensimehrp> yiffgirl: In 56 years, 353 days, 23 hours, 12 minutes, 2 seconds, 344 milliseconds, 435 microseconds, 747 nanoseconds, 892 picoseconds...
19:10:11 <andythenorth> peter1138: total number of vehicles has gone well though? 😛
19:34:16 <Heiki> (same window, different issue)
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20:55:44 <peter1138> Heiki, seems to work fine for me.
20:59:12 <Rubidium> might it be a translation issue? Which English variant is Heiki looking at?
21:05:24 <peter1138> Oh the tooltips are wrong, I'm aware of that, but my refactoring things got in the way of a quick fix :)
21:07:38 <Heiki> The tooltips were definitely so wrong that I opened that issue (:. Will have a closer look at my other problem tomorrow.
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23:02:48 <peter1138> Well. I wanted to do stuff but just sat here for an hour or two :o
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