IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-07-10
⏴ go to previous day
00:05:46 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
00:05:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
00:15:59 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:16:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
01:00:03 *** kuka_lie_ has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)
01:00:03 *** kuka_lie has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)
01:03:15 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
01:03:22 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
02:08:30 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
02:10:09 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:28:34 <yiffgirl> peter1138[d]: launch an icbm at their house
04:29:03 *** dh1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
06:07:01 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
06:09:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
06:37:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
06:45:21 <locosage> goal games are pretty fun too in openttd
08:05:33 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
08:11:35 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
08:52:20 <_zephyris> Brings up my old gripe. Money isn't the only currency, space to build and town ratings are two other major ones. But players love settings which reduce those restrictions (building on foundations, permissive local authorities).
08:52:55 <_zephyris> "The game is too sandbox", but their settings allow demolishing entire cities, placing arbitrary houses and building on any slope.
08:54:17 <_zephyris> Hyper optimisation through settings, rather than gameplay hacks, but similar concept.
08:54:39 <peter1138[d]> Disabling inflation...
08:56:12 <peter1138[d]> (Or making their NewGRFs disable themselves if inflation is turned on.)
08:56:48 <peter1138[d]> Not looking at andythenorth
08:59:48 *** foodliker has joined #openttd
08:59:48 <foodliker> i play with money on because infinite money feels odd but like its so easy to make money in ottd that i largely ignore it after a decade or so in game depending on other settings
09:00:13 <foodliker> i have inflation off because it tends to get a bit funny if you start early
09:00:28 <foodliker> i know ot doesn't kick in til a certain year i just like
09:00:35 <foodliker> dont like it very much
09:00:56 <foodliker> but my goal in ottd is just can i make a cool trainset tbh
09:01:16 <foodliker> "how willing am i to spend my linited free time placing objects"
09:34:49 *** dh1 has quit IRC (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
09:42:19 <locosage> _zephyris: town rating is nothing but tree planting annoyance and building on slopes is painful enough even with everything "reduced" due to how bad building tools are in the game
09:44:06 <locosage> there is plenty of fun stuff to do in the game when you get over those silly annoyances
09:44:48 <reldred> I think I might play my next game as a 512x128 just to really make things squeezy
09:44:58 <reldred> And make the map super mountaineous
09:45:33 <locosage> locosage: suddenly even money starts to matter when you can build fast enough to spend it xD
10:16:08 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
12:22:53 <_zephyris> Eh, wrong solutions to the problem IMO. eg. if tree planting isn't fun, then try to work out a better way to improve local authority rating, like take neighbouring town opinion into account. Don't just nuke local authority rating as a concept...
12:23:09 <_zephyris> But this ship has sailed a long time ago!
12:25:01 <talltyler> Well, I’m working on an alternate station rating algorithm to avoid anti-patterns, we could do an alternate local authority algorithm next…
12:25:31 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
12:25:35 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
12:26:03 <talltyler> Actually, I finished writing the code, it just needs “balancing” which requires figuring out what you need to do for 100%, and working backwards from there.
12:35:25 <talltyler> I also want to rescue subsidies. They have a distance limit of 70 tiles, which just isn’t enough for most non-vanilla industry sets with more industries and cargos and therefore fewer valid connections between nearby industries. Map size is not really the problem, although indirectly it’s related since people choose lower town/industry densities.
12:35:25 <talltyler> And then there’s the ban on subsidies when CargoDist is used. As far as I can tell there’s no technical problem here, just a concern that players would be confused. If you have a subsidy for cargo from A-B, cargo going A-C via B won’t be subsidized. This is correct but there was a concern that players would be confused, so it was banned out of an abundance of caution.
12:37:53 <peter1138[d]> Well, part of the infinite money problem is caused by larger map sizes and being able to transport cargo much further.
12:38:21 <peter1138[d]> Payments haven't been scaled.
12:39:47 <peter1138[d]> So a distance limit on subsidies, especially as the point of a subsidy is benefit an otherwise low profit route, is not so bad.
12:40:12 <peter1138[d]> Of course the subsidy time is short enough it's usually not worth the expense 🙂
12:40:36 <peter1138[d]> But maybe Wallclock and a slowed down game solves that. (I don't rememeber if subsidies are calendar time or not.)
13:12:37 <talltyler> They’re economy time, I did my best not to change any balance things 🙂
13:49:43 <locosage> payments haven't been scaled because of setting name bikeshedding 😜
14:00:04 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
14:00:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
14:09:07 <talltyler> Did company shares really get deleted, or is it stored somewhere in my computer?
14:19:39 <locosage> check advanced settings, might be hidden there somewhere :p
14:20:11 <locosage> next to block signals 😜
14:33:38 <locosage> _zephyris: Well, it isn't much of a problem, it's just a completely redundant mechanic that thankfully can now be disabled to make the game better. Can another reasonable mechanic be implemented that involves towns? Well, maybe, but that's no different from discussing any other potentially beneficial thing like see depth levels or metro.
14:34:11 <talltyler> It's very different, it doesn't require a new map array 😉
14:34:35 <locosage> that's technicalities :p
14:34:40 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
14:34:53 <locosage> also, who says reasonable authority mechanics won't require it ;)
14:34:54 <_jgr_> This is the technical channel 😛
14:35:04 <_zephyris> How's it a redundant mechanic?
14:36:08 <locosage> because you don't need any authority thing to have a good game
14:36:59 <locosage> i swear, if I'll keep playing in MH events I'll automate this shit one day
14:37:40 <locosage> already have treedozer xD
14:38:17 <_jgr_> The local authority rating does not correlate in any meaningful way with how well the player is doing
14:38:26 <_jgr_> From the player point of view it's an arbitrary obstacle
14:38:47 <_zephyris> Just as arbitrary as money, or terraforming limits.
14:39:02 <peter1138[d]> _zephyris: "I don't like it" basically.
14:39:36 <peter1138[d]> Local authority doesn't need to be about "how well" the player is doing.
14:40:35 <peter1138[d]> You can be a good successful business, but that doesn't mean a town should accept any old bullshit.
14:42:08 <locosage> More specifically, town authority rating doesn't correlate in any meaningful way with how much good player does for the town.
14:42:26 <locosage> you can provide them with top-notch transport network and still be hated for killing a few trees
14:43:23 <_zephyris> That's literally the point. The original game has unremovable transmitters and tree removal penalties to prevent excessive terraforming.
14:44:24 <locosage> original game was economic simulator 😜
14:45:41 <talltyler> BTW, _zephyris, I agree with you about tile space being the real currency of OpenTTD. But even with build on slopes, I still have to be very creative with infrastructure.
14:45:41 <talltyler> I have spent hours optimizing this area of my latest game, which mixes fast passenger trains, slow freight trains, and services on five passenger lines. I've tried to avoid demolishing houses or changing too much at once (it feels organic, and I can see the original design still, albeit with many modifications).
14:45:41 <talltyler> Some game stats: 242 trains on 21.6k rail pieces, 310 road vehicles, 113 ships, started in 1860 now in 1955 but calendar time has been mostly paused or very slow — I'm on period (year) 566. 😛
14:46:55 <talltyler> I could turn off Infinite Money, as I'm actually making less than a million pounds per year (infrastructure maintenance eats 2 million of my profits 🙂 ) although I've been playing so long I have 296 million in the bank.
14:52:41 <talltyler> I've done two tunneling projects to alleviate congestion at my capitol city's terminus station. The first was the tunnel under downtown, in the steam era (if you look closely, I put in a ventilation smokestack object). Originally it was for freight service to the factory, but I added passenger service and soon built a freight bypass once the tunnels got congested.
14:52:41 <talltyler> That said, I soon ran out of platform space at the main station, so in the late 1940s I changed service patterns to paired through-running, adding the reroute around the power plan to balance the number of lines on each end of the station.
14:54:27 <talltyler> I built a rural cemetery served by rail (London Necropolis Railway) and then eventually did Transit-Oriented Development nearby, building a new town with a new rail line and a light rail link to the adjacent town.
14:55:05 <talltyler> Anyway, maybe I should just post in Discord channel #game-journals but here's proof that the devs do play OpenTTD 😛
15:08:42 *** akimoto has joined #openttd
15:33:45 <peter1138[d]> Why crying with laughter emoji?
15:36:50 *** keikoz1 has joined #openttd
15:42:09 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
15:43:22 <talltyler> That might be due to sea level never having snow (no sprites) and OpenGFX barely showing snow at the lowest snow density.
15:43:46 *** keoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
15:44:42 <emperorjake> What if farms were changed to always be allowed at sea level regrdless of snowline? That way players can't be softlocked out of industries
15:45:40 <locosage> coverage % simply doesn't work on flat maps
15:46:20 <locosage> coz height levels are usually nowhere near the requested %
15:49:18 <talltyler> emperorjake: I like this idea. Is there a counterpart for forests? Always allow forest at the maximum height level? (Do we know that?)
15:51:57 <belajalilija> i agree that height levels are better than %
16:02:52 <peter1138[d]> 29°C... bicycle time... Maybe.
16:35:11 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
16:37:20 <truebrain> Lol, for some reason I am happy I left a big wall of text in that PR years ago 😄 at least gives context 😛
18:04:48 *** kuka_lie has joined #openttd
19:19:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
19:21:31 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
19:24:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
19:25:49 *** toktik is now known as Guest21703
19:31:30 *** Guest21703 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
19:44:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:45:51 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:22:19 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:22:21 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
20:40:38 *** kuka_lie has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)
20:48:07 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
20:50:47 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)
20:55:31 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:03:41 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:04:07 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
21:16:16 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:16:17 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:21:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:22:51 *** keikoz1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:24:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:37:43 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
continue to next day ⏵
