IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-06-02
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04:43:32 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
05:41:42 <pickpacket> whaaaa.... I started a new company -- "Unnamed" -- and built a depot. And the company became renamed to "Bigwig & Co"
05:44:16 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: I have a company which has been in the red for almost two years now without becoming bankrupt
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06:12:43 <pickpacket> three full years now
06:13:45 <pickpacket> I left yesterday's game overnight and this morning all companies were gone so apparently they *do* go bankrupt eventually. Just not in 9 months
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07:19:19 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 22 of 2025 (by OpenTTD Survey)
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08:34:36 <_jgr_> Thinking more about the script list situation, perhaps the more fundamental problem is that its memory cost is excluded from the script memory tracking and allocation limit entirely
08:36:39 <_jgr_> Charging a nominal, constant number of bytes per item (e.g. 64, which is less than the actual cost with the current implementation) could discourage/block excessive use
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10:00:40 <peter1138[d]> Utterly wrong, vs a bit better.
10:01:59 <peter1138[d]> Alternative correctness...
11:32:16 <xarick> hunting for some assert that may not happen
11:47:36 <LordAro> anyone else get AI vibes from #14320?
11:48:01 <peter1138[d]> A bit of that too.
11:48:03 <LordAro> not that an AI would add unnecessary newlines or commented out code
11:48:15 <LordAro> could just be the description
11:50:19 <talltyler> The user’s other repos have suspiciously-nice repos for throwaway practice project (chess game with one cpp file, etc), which does suggest AI to me.
11:55:28 <talltyler> Er, suspiciously-nice Readme* files
11:55:42 <talltyler> No real person writes using emojis
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12:29:50 <xarick> maybe I should rename `AddItemUnsafe` to some better name:
12:34:46 <fairyflossy> Well it depends, is it an unsafe/unchecked method of adding, or is the item unsafe/unchecked
12:35:44 <fairyflossy> AddItemUnchecked/Uncheck(ed)AddItem to me, as someone with 0 familiarity with the code, implies the Unchecked-ness is to do with the action. AddUncheckedItem implies its to do with the item
12:36:25 <_glx_> it doesn't provide real benefit (a gain of 1s on a 5+s call just proves the script should have been killed earlier)
12:37:48 <xarick> but it's on 24+ lists, they have to add up
12:39:01 <_glx_> in normal usage it won't matter
12:50:15 <xarick> I wanted an assert to happen, I'm intrigued what's going to happen to the list
12:51:54 <peter1138[d]> Such vibe coding.
12:55:48 <xarick> at least I prove the assert works
13:17:57 <peter1138[d]> Is it not home time yet? 😦
13:18:44 <xarick> buckets for item x with value 0 remains unchanged
13:21:22 <xarick> interesting that an AIList takes two std::map's
13:38:13 <xarick> it's been 1 hour already
13:38:23 <xarick> what am I doing with my time
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13:45:06 <_glx_> oh SQOpsLimiter has no effect when the valuator is a native closure
13:46:28 <xarick> Unsure if i keep the assert... apparently nothing really bad happens
13:46:56 <xarick> only because the value is the same
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13:59:38 <xarick> * Adds a single item to the list without verifying its existence.
13:59:38 <xarick> * @param item The item to add.
13:59:38 <xarick> * @note For performance reasons, use this method only when certain that the item is not already in the list.
13:59:39 <xarick> void AddItemUnsafe(SQInteger item);```
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15:14:22 <xarick> is that going to halt AddRectangle the whole map?
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15:17:52 <_glx_> no it's only for where SQOpsLimiter is used
15:19:58 <_glx_> I noticed it didn't work when doing silly tests (like valuating a list of over 200k items)
15:20:52 <_glx_> each valuation costing at least 5 ops it should have triggered but it didn't
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15:23:07 <xarick> I have no good solution for AddRectangle
15:23:44 <xarick> I didn't want to turn it into a nap
15:23:59 <peter1138[d]> Is that "don't add the whole map"?
15:25:12 <xarick> I tried adding tiles one by one in squirrel
15:25:48 <xarick> it smooths out the operation, but with 10k ops the AI is just not doing anything for months
15:26:32 <_jgr_> Poorly written AIs effectively creating a denial of service of the actual game should really be killed either way
15:44:32 <_glx_> anyway if your list has more than 200k items you're doing it wrong
15:47:42 <_glx_> if I'm counting correctly a ScriptVehicleList() for an AI is at most 20k items
15:48:52 <andythenorth> map reduce, and thread pool
15:52:13 <xarick> GS can get a list of all vehicles from every company
15:52:26 <_glx_> for GS it can go up to 300k yes
15:57:02 <_glx_> but survey shows games using highest max for each vehicle types are less than 50%
15:57:06 <xarick> one day iron horse will have 300k engines too
15:58:00 <_glx_> max is 64000 for engines
15:58:39 <andythenorth> I'll need to wait a few generations of CPU before I can add 64k vehicles
15:58:55 <_glx_> shared between all active newgrf
16:00:45 <_glx_> so a script needing more than 200k items in a list does silly things
16:10:28 <xarick> I found more places where I can use AddItemUnchecked
16:12:10 <xarick> i could use it in the _set metamethod
16:14:06 <xarick> ScriptList::LoadObject I also assume the AddItem there is also used on empty lists?
16:17:16 <xarick> FindVehiclesWithOrder, unsure
16:27:47 <xarick> probably can use it there too
16:38:17 <xarick> corona AI is a good place to test
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16:58:27 <peter1138[d]> Okay, what to call a value that's a sum of values to be turned into an average once a month?
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17:09:22 <peter1138[d]> Also, is there a cheap way to get the number of days since the last month event.
17:09:57 <Rubidium> you mean it's the name for a filed that's the sum for the current month and average for past months?
17:10:00 <andythenorth> peter1138[d]: timeseries no?
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17:11:06 <andythenorth> cumulative sum of timeseries?
17:12:55 <peter1138[d]> accumulated fits best.
17:13:20 <peter1138[d]> It was off my radar because I'd tried a method that used an accumulator, but that was not satisfactory.
17:15:08 <peter1138[d]> Having to store (and save) both the average and the accumulator, which only works for a fixed number of samples per month, turns out just be more complex than just storing the accumulated total and dividing it at the end of the month.
18:02:00 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, probably this accumulated average will never go near uint16_t, let alone overflow.
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18:25:56 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: not saying you're wrong, but... Famous last words...
18:26:38 <peter1138[d]> No, I made it uint32_t because the raw value is uint16_t.
18:26:46 <peter1138[d]> But I'm seeing values like... 30 🙂
18:30:15 <peter1138[d]> Fortunately it's only 1 value (per cargo, per industry), and the actual monthly average is a uint16_t.
18:40:13 <xarick> How do I rename on both places?
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18:54:01 <xarick> it's still missing 1 sprite
19:04:35 <xarick> how do I manage branches that require other branches
19:06:22 <peter1138[d]> Just reference the other PR in the PR description.
19:07:50 <xarick> nvm, I'll figure a way
19:08:42 <peter1138[d]> Oh right, not at PR level 🙂
19:09:26 <peter1138[d]> Crap. I messed that up 😮
19:09:48 <xarick> my `mix` branch is a bunch of cherry-picks from other branches
19:09:54 <xarick> but it's becoming long
19:10:30 <xarick> becoming harder to maintain
19:12:35 <peter1138[d]> XarickPatchPack?
19:13:26 <LordAro> there is no easy way to maintain such a branch
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19:16:17 <peter1138[d]> Well, you can just merge things all over the place. But...
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19:28:33 <xarick> my slow valuate branch exploded in number of commits
19:29:01 <xarick> trying to bring them into mix branch gonna be tough
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20:20:41 <_zephyris> Thanks for merging the nml update, I don't (think I) have write permissions for nml.
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20:30:53 <xarick> oh snap... language packs, they can't be together
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20:50:13 <xarick> some strange stuff happening with the memory usage
20:54:16 <peter1138[d]> Some kind of small town.
20:54:40 <peter1138[d]> It is slightly alarming how much the population changes 🙂
21:01:16 <xarick> 2 years after, master is staying behind
21:14:55 <xarick> becoming harder to maintain 1.00x
21:19:50 <xarick> just reached the point max ops are starting to decrease
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