IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-04-15
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04:44:55 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
06:00:00 <andythenorth> Horse main branch, make from clean: 36s (10999 vehicles)
06:00:00 <andythenorth> Horse working brach, make from clean: 20s (9476 vehicles)
06:00:13 <andythenorth> made it 0.3s faster yesterday
06:36:02 <andythenorth> oof immediate sidequest
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07:57:51 <peter1138> Oh, I want a mask of railtypes, like we have of roadtypes/tramtypes. Hmm.
08:42:05 <andythenorth> I should go swimming or something
08:42:12 <andythenorth> failed to move yesterday 😛
08:49:03 <peter1138> > None of the buses can enter the impassable bus stop.
08:49:10 <peter1138> I guess if it's impassable that makes sense?
09:00:07 <peter1138> I think I may have forgot to say anything... At first I couldn't see the difference, then I wasn't sure about it, then I liked it ;-)
09:05:04 <andythenorth> cheap gaming PC maybe? 😛
09:05:11 <peter1138> They are not cheap :)
09:05:38 <peter1138> I was looking there because they have an ARM model (Ampere, so also quite expensive.)
09:06:00 <peter1138> Basically I want an M4-based Mac that isn't a Mac... :S
09:06:20 <andythenorth> they look quite proper chassis
09:06:29 <andythenorth> one of my kids has a good chassis in their PC
09:06:35 <andythenorth> the other is trash
09:06:48 <andythenorth> sticker price difference was only £300 and that was mostly for GPU
09:06:52 <peter1138> The 128 core 3GHz option is a mere $1,684 extra.
09:07:05 <peter1138> 128 cores is good for OpenTTD, yes>
09:08:06 <peter1138> > $23,783.00 Let's do it. OpenTTD dev fundraiser... lolz
09:08:27 <peter1138> > Operating System: Ubuntu 24.04 LTS
09:08:35 <peter1138> Well that's a showstopper, purchase cancelled.
09:08:46 <andythenorth> wonder how much macs are
09:08:56 <peter1138> There's no way to know.
09:09:50 <peter1138> They all have piddling RAM and disk.
09:10:10 <andythenorth> "Built for Apple Intelligence" lol no
09:10:28 <andythenorth> I should ask GPT to define a tech bubble
09:49:58 <peter1138> Hmm, okay, doing automatic PUSH_COLOUR/POP_COLOUR is in fact quite easy.
09:50:32 <peter1138> I suspect the "overhead" of making it universal is probably inconsequential.
10:03:21 <andythenorth> what are clones cloned from? origins? clone_source?
10:06:33 <__abigail> Not sure if this is the right spot to ask, but is there a usual method for drawing cropped text? Like drawing a string only within a defined box and cropping any of the pixels outside of it
10:07:40 <peter1138> Yes, all string drawing is done that way.
10:09:42 <peter1138> andythenorth, origin or source, I suppose.
10:10:18 <andythenorth> I went with upstream_catalogue 😛
10:10:27 <peter1138> Perfect and generic.
10:10:28 <andythenorth> "probably recurses" or something
10:10:45 <andythenorth> clones could be cloned maybe dunno
10:12:06 <peter1138> If you clone a clone have you cloned the origin again?
10:12:24 <peter1138> If your clone has a unique identifier is it really a clone?
10:14:14 <andythenorth> what if there's a time loop? 😮
10:23:27 <LordAro> andythenorth: tie them up in the attic
10:41:46 <LordAro> peter1138: help i've found a thing
10:44:33 <peter1138> "11 days" ... not with you around :D
10:45:00 <LordAro> i think 3 is eminently doable
10:45:21 <peter1138> It's not all about speed.
10:45:37 <peter1138> But even so, 50km a day is a bit on the low side.
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11:39:50 <kuhnovic> Keep in mind that that part of Norway is quite mountainous and generally the roads tend to be of meh quality
11:41:06 <jfkuayue> I planned to bike from Lerwick to Sumburgh “with return in one day” before realizing it was 20+ kilometres :/
11:46:46 <peter1138> kuhnovic, LordAro is not afraid of a few bumps, and we're used to potholes :D
11:48:24 <peter1138> jfkuayue, only double 20km, definitely doable.
11:49:20 <kuhnovic> Then go for it! You're going to run into some truly breathtaking scenery
11:51:24 <peter1138> That is the reason I would take longer :)
11:51:40 <jfkuayue> peter1138: You athlete, I weak
11:51:53 <peter1138> The journey is the point, getting from a to b quickly is not.
11:53:00 <jfkuayue> My longest bike was 12 km ish, 6km return and relatively flat
11:53:29 <jfkuayue> That was in 2019 when I was much thinner and energetic…
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11:56:06 <kuhnovic> Definitely check out the Drammen Spiral Tunnel. It's such a ridiculous piece of infrastructure, really fun.
12:18:47 <xarick> oh well, I'll get used to it
12:25:50 <LordAro> jfkuayue: i'd have thought even at the most leisurely of speeds that would only take an hour
12:27:55 <Rubidium> 20 km/h isn't that leisurely
12:31:41 <peter1138> The actual distance is 40km, so a bit more :)
12:31:43 <pickpacket> Hmmm. Should I make a NewGRF that only adds a hilariously expensive sports car that doesn't even take passengers?
12:41:58 <peter1138> Would it give you joy?
12:46:34 <_jgr_> frosch123viaGitHub: Oh dear, I don't know how that got left out of the original PR
13:17:09 <pickpacket> peter1138: it would give me a laugh, at least. But maybe the idea is funny enough that the realisation of it would be anticlimactic :)
13:24:56 <pickpacket> andythenorth: yes. You missed it
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14:36:25 <frosch123> Were there ever complaints about house and station animations running too fast?
14:36:25 <frosch123> Specs say default speed is 2. Ottd does 0. Which is 4 times faster
14:39:42 <peter1138[d]> default, newgrf or both?
14:45:35 <frosch123> Funny part is: houses disallow setting speed below 2, except our default is
14:45:37 <talltyler> I can’t think of any animated NewGRF houses besides those with palette animation
14:48:35 <peter1138[d]> "road aware" houses use animation.
14:48:54 <peter1138[d]> But speed isn't a problem there.
14:49:10 <_zephyris> Is pikka's bug on that still open?
14:49:42 <_zephyris> The anim frame trigger on build
14:51:40 <peter1138[d]> I don't think I implemented trigger-on-build as I side-quested into something else.
14:51:49 <peter1138[d]> Although maybe I have a branch/stash for it.
14:53:51 <frosch123> _zephyris: That's the reason I am in this rabbit hole :p
14:55:16 <frosch123> Houses were broken in ottd 1.1. Ottd 0.5-1.0 were fine
14:59:58 <peter1138[d]> Working out which is a bug and which is intended can be tricky.
15:00:44 <peter1138[d]> Things can get lost in refactoring. "I'll sort that out later."
15:07:20 <peter1138[d]> Maybe there's something similar to industries which stops FIRS animating so many tiles :p
15:07:28 <peter1138[d]> *for industries.
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15:26:22 <frosch123> And only because someone requested to use enum classes
15:29:38 <xarick> could we have a group by model?
15:31:18 <peter1138> frosch123, well worth me being annoying then :P
15:33:07 <andythenorth> can we have a 'filter by recommended replacement variants'? 😛
15:33:44 <andythenorth> and a 'hide / show' that doesn't require 9476 extra action 0s wrapped in action 7 / 8
15:36:32 <peter1138[d]> andythenorth: Do not understand the request.
15:36:49 <andythenorth> it relied on a lot of hidden assumptions 😛
15:37:25 <andythenorth> Horse has these two parameters that reduce or hide engines and wagons
15:38:04 <andythenorth> they rely on some vehicles having a flag, and setting CLIMATE_NONE in an extra action 0 conditional on those params
15:38:32 <andythenorth> it's surprisingly bloaty and players can't change it in game
15:40:25 <andythenorth> deleting them saves 6 MB of nml, 0.6 MB of grf
15:41:10 <andythenorth> we could badge for 'do you want all the vehicles ever?'
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15:56:28 <frosch123> Other sets also set the model life depending on such settings, and retire old generations, or keep them around if they are the last.
15:56:28 <frosch123> That won't work with gui filtering only
16:01:32 <andythenorth> Horse removes variants for simplified, that's an action 0 change
16:01:49 <peter1138[d]> "Hide variants"?
16:03:18 <andythenorth> we talked before about toggles for expired also
16:03:22 <andythenorth> I know we have a setting, but eh
16:04:13 <peter1138[d]> Talking about stuff means nothing.
16:14:20 <talltyler> I wrote some code the last time we talked about it. Needs more work though.
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16:45:22 <andythenorth> vibe coding is too hard
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16:56:39 <bigyihsuan> i now have the sudden urge to change the "only generate primary industries" setting into a "industry types allowed to generate" setting, that does none, primary only, secondary only, and all
17:07:12 <frosch123> Ah crap, fell down another level
17:24:55 <peter1138[d]> Welcome back, I guess 😉
17:35:40 <talltyler> bigyihsuan: Would be very nice to have, although there’s also the Black Hole industry type 😉
17:35:50 <talltyler> (Power Station, etc)
17:36:09 <bigyihsuan> talltyler: true, but is the term "black hole industry" used anywhere?
17:38:06 <bigyihsuan> town industries, power station
17:38:37 <bigyihsuan> like, maybe a better term would be "final industry"? to be in line of primary and secondary
17:40:27 <Rubidium> bigyihsuan: what would you consider a bank?
17:41:11 <Rubidium> (it'd be a "final industry" in your terms)
17:41:24 <bigyihsuan> Rubidium: good question. do banks generate when primary industries only is turned on?
17:49:45 <bigyihsuan> (noting here that the primary industries setting is a jgrpp setting, since i can't find it in the latest 15.0 beta)
17:52:48 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, does that mean the lift moved too quickly...
17:57:07 <bigyihsuan> Rubidium: ok, some experimentation:
17:57:07 <bigyihsuan> - primaries only off, banks don't generate with the world, and open during gameplay
17:57:07 <bigyihsuan> - primaries only on, banks don't generate with the world, don't open during gameplay unless the player funds it
17:57:07 <bigyihsuan> so seems like the game considers banks to be a secondary industry
17:59:51 <Rubidium> bigyihsuan: no, it considers it a 'black hole' or 'final' industry in the terms you mentioned before
18:00:08 <Rubidium> i.e. akin a power station or water tower
18:00:48 <bigyihsuan> Rubidium: interesting
18:00:55 <bigyihsuan> i'll need to investigate further
18:09:15 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, oh. so colour codes and things end up being exposed to scripts. Bums.
18:10:18 <Rubidium> well... I guess we could be more diligent in removing them when passing strings to scripts
18:11:04 <peter1138[d]> Seems to already have ::StrMakeValid()
18:12:00 <peter1138[d]> Oh right, and that's working, the default is to replace with question marks.
18:17:26 <peter1138> So yeah, not actually exposed, but turned to ? instead.
18:24:21 <peter1138> For script string validation, maybe we can just strip control codes instead of replacing with ?.
18:31:30 <frosch123> They are only stripped for rawstrings from scripts. They put control codes into regular language files otherwise
18:32:23 <peter1138[d]> All the GetName() functions call StrMakeValid() with the default setting of ReplaceWithQuestionMark.
18:34:01 <peter1138[d]> If regression tests pass, everything is good, right? 😄
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18:52:40 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I wonder how much work that would be 😄
18:52:41 <andythenorth> is Horse Badgers done yet?
19:22:31 <andythenorth> was it naptime already?
19:36:28 <xarick> what happens first? the "constructor" or the "Load" function?
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19:45:51 <andythenorth> hmm I can't reverse these in game
19:46:16 <andythenorth> but these use random reverse
19:46:39 <andythenorth> maybe I should have the sprites on the second unit take the reverse status of the first unit
19:47:22 <andythenorth> or I could photoshop it :p
19:47:41 <peter1138[d]> I'm glad we standardised on when to use .h vs .hpp.
19:47:49 <peter1138[d]> Oh wait, we didn't.
19:51:40 <Rubidium> well... I was kinda told off when proposing to unify it
19:53:56 <andythenorth> ok...these wagons are deterministic random (which is why trains 4 and 6 are the same). The sprites are chosen by a predetermined map, selected at random from 64 maps. I could do the same for engine., but specific sequence, not random
19:54:12 <andythenorth> way easier than arsing around with complicated varact 2 rules
19:55:18 <Rubidium> peter1138[d]: #11864
19:55:37 <peter1138[d]> I'm aware, that is what I was referencing 🙂
19:55:46 <andythenorth> reversible garratts
19:55:54 <andythenorth> oh have to move the smoke 😛
19:56:49 <peter1138[d]> Funny how core/ is all .hpp
19:58:42 <peter1138[d]> `template<xxx>` has crept back in too 🙂
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20:28:26 <frosch123> I now have a grep to check my common formatting issues, should add those as well
20:29:02 <frosch123> It has false positives
20:30:05 <frosch123> E.g. we do "Type &" for variables and parameters, but "Type&" for return values
20:30:34 <peter1138[d]> Actually IMHO, we don't, those need fixing.
20:31:42 <peter1138[d]> (I didn't touch them in #14008 because it would be quite large...)
20:31:52 <frosch123> It appeared rather consistent to me, so I thought it was intentional
20:31:57 <andythenorth> badges for debugging 🙂
20:32:11 <andythenorth> just fixed an intro_year bug in 2 mins with them
20:33:32 <frosch123> When will Andy add source filename/line as badge?
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20:37:07 <andythenorth> when peter1138[d] increases the badge count
20:37:23 <andythenorth> imagine the compile time 😦
20:38:48 <_glx_> frosch123: don't give him ideas
20:39:48 <andythenorth> I didn't manage to get railtype badge to show on vehicle
20:40:01 <andythenorth> I did try adding debug, but was out of my depth
20:41:14 <andythenorth> it's probably a silly thing to badge anyway
20:41:18 <Rubidium> for line numbers line 20 badges should be enough. At least, I hope you won't reach 1 million lines
20:42:39 <andythenorth> what problem did we need to solve? 🙂
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21:17:54 <andythenorth> hmm did I even have a quest?
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21:33:40 <andythenorth> var with param that is list of badges, the return is the index of the first badge found
21:33:49 <andythenorth> probably terrible
21:34:02 <andythenorth> I should just loop unroll 😛
21:51:56 <xarick> `AIRoad.GetRoadVehicleTypeForCargo`, is there a get road station type for vehicle type or something similar?
21:52:42 <xarick> or... how should I do this in a professional manner ? 😮
21:53:35 <xarick> it all starts from the cargo class -> cargo type -> vehicle type for cargo -> station type for vehicle
21:54:09 <xarick> I could just keep assuming stuff though, simple way
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23:37:18 <__abigail> It was a pain in the ass but I finally managed to use Blitter to crop text
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