IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-08-17
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04:43:08 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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08:26:45 <truebrain> andythenorth: at 0930 that is called a brunch
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10:47:49 <peter1138> A bit of the old Zone 4
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13:50:43 <peter1139> Vehicle persistent storage?
13:51:34 <peter1139> NewGRFs trashing other NewGRF's data?
13:54:11 <peter1139> Might need a new callback to be honest.
13:54:51 <peter1139> Wagon attach only gives you access to the vehicle begin attached, the possible the lead engine.
13:55:26 <peter1139> Oh, maybe it can be allowed for relative_scope too.
13:55:35 <peter1139> But NewGRFs talking over each other... :o
14:01:24 <andythenorth> I wondered about a 'consist changed' callback
14:01:37 <andythenorth> I didn't look what we already have though
14:05:46 <peter1139> Hmm, is it similar to a rerandomisation trigger...
14:06:08 <andythenorth> Seems like similar concerns
14:06:46 <peter1139> They could technically cause "bad things" to happen.
14:10:05 <andythenorth> can only write to SELF?
14:10:58 <peter1139> If there's a callback that is looped for every vehicle in the chain then only-write-to-self is maybe feasible?
14:11:03 <andythenorth> can I read PSA with 0x61?
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14:11:14 <reldred> This is getting out of hand! Now, there are two of them!
14:11:55 <peter1139> But if it's on wagon attach then that is only called for the vehicle being attached.
14:12:59 <andythenorth> what about load/unload?
14:13:19 <peter1139> Also wagon-attach means it's train-only.
14:13:20 <andythenorth> I was going to cache load sprite vs not, to cut out a bunch of varact 2
14:13:32 <andythenorth> but maybe caching sprites isn't for grf authors
14:14:27 <peter1139> Caching without NewGRF input is difficult but the game does not know which variables affect the result.
14:15:00 <peter1139> (Cargo subtype refits eh?)
14:15:04 <andythenorth> pfff...even turning angles
14:15:07 <andythenorth> depending on the grf
14:20:27 <peter1139> So yes, allowing NewGRFs to calculate stuff and store it for lookup later is potentially worthwhile.
14:22:17 <peter1139> Is "vehicle entered depot" a useful trigger point?
14:23:04 <peter1139> Anything outside depots is "problematic"
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14:41:04 <andythenorth> how do cbs work? I've forgotten....they're all in the varact2 chain, and there's a var for the cb identifier byte?
14:41:58 <peter1139> The NewGRF tests var 0C which is set to the callback being evaluated.
14:42:10 <andythenorth> and a single cb can have multiple different triggers?
14:42:21 <andythenorth> and the trigger is additionally available in a var?
14:42:38 <peter1139> Rerandomisation triggers are a different thing.
14:43:02 <andythenorth> what do we call the 'reason sprites are drawn' var?
14:43:50 <peter1139> But it would be possible to use the load from and store to persistent storage operations within a rerandomisation chain (if it's not set to readonly)
14:43:59 <peter1139> That's the cargo type.
14:44:24 <peter1139> You (can) have a different chain for each cargo type, and then there's 2 or 3 special cargo "types"
14:44:44 <peter1139> One is default (if the specific cargo type is not present) and another is "purchase"
14:45:00 <andythenorth> I was thinking of var 0x10, just getting my head around the nfo 😛
14:45:51 <andythenorth> I suspect a lot of the common cases are handled within depot
14:46:12 <andythenorth> there will be other cases, like load/unload, railtype change
14:46:15 <verzide68> is the ttd art free to use?
14:46:43 <andythenorth> not convinced that some cases justify writing to PSA, e.g. vehicle curvature changed
14:46:55 * andythenorth looking at cb 36 triggers
14:47:36 <andythenorth> `Most properties will only change when the vehicle is bought, serviced (enters a depot), visits a station or on loading of a saved game. Other ones such as TE are called every time a TE calculation is run.`
14:47:44 <andythenorth> there isn't an explicit list in grf spec
14:48:22 <emperorjake> verzide68: If you mean the original TTD base graphics, no they're copyrighted
14:48:37 <emperorjake> OpenGFX is free to use under GPL though
14:49:07 <peter1139> Although OpenGFX 2 art is a better bet :)
14:49:18 <peter1139> var 10 is extra param1
14:49:22 <peter1139> var 18 is extra param2
14:49:56 <verzide68> i'm trying to finish the road logic but i cba to make pixel art rn
14:50:40 <andythenorth> what will players do with PSA?
14:50:50 <andythenorth> adjust engine weight to simulate fuel running down?
14:51:40 <andythenorth> store number of load/unload since last depot visit, then show pax coach sprites that need a wash?
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14:55:59 <verzide68> what's with the blue background on everything?
14:57:30 <reldred> no really, it's just becoz, it's how TTD originally encoded it's sprites, 8bit indexed with certain colour indexes having a magical purpose. blue is transparent.
14:57:42 <peter1139> Players can't do anything with PSA.
14:57:49 <reldred> that's its magical purpose. disappear.
14:58:03 <verzide68> that's why you're blue
14:58:15 <peter1139> It's blue because of GRFCodec, I suppose.
14:58:35 <andythenorth> it's pretty conventional, but I don't know why
14:58:52 <reldred> yeah pretty common for 8bit games
14:59:02 <reldred> I've seen 00ff00 before though
14:59:12 <peter1139> OpenTTD's palette entry for 0 is actually solid black, but it might not have been that in TTD.
14:59:15 <reldred> cant rember wot game that was though.
14:59:51 <peter1139> ff00ff is fairly common because most people never want to see bright magenta anywhere :)
15:00:05 <reldred> yeah i've seen that too
15:00:41 <reldred> but yes, anyway, most 8bit games will have a reserved colour that's for transparency, we use blue
15:02:07 <andythenorth> wondering what the most evil thing to put in PSA would be
15:02:39 <peter1139> Well, the problematic thing to do is to read it during a CB36...
15:02:57 <peter1139> And then have a different GRF write something unknown into it.
15:03:06 <peter1139> (Hence wondering about readonly scopes)
15:04:39 <andythenorth> wonder if there's any case for writing to parent engine
15:05:16 <andythenorth> all my ideas scoped write to self
15:05:38 <reldred> Brake van increasing tractive effort of the engines or something silly?
15:05:43 <andythenorth> I am aware other grf authors exist
15:06:06 <andythenorth> but the cases I have are all effectively like extending arbitrary vars or props
15:06:21 <andythenorth> then reading them from other vehicles with 0x61
15:24:07 <andythenorth> reldred: engine can sort that out on cb36 by reading the brake van 😛
15:24:11 <andythenorth> no need to write to the engine 🙂
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16:44:53 <peter1138> andythenorth: Are those the ones that dictate how things should be done?
16:49:21 <andythenorth> did a biking for a bit
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17:21:57 <peter1139> I only got views of the coffee stop on my ride.
17:22:42 <peter1139> Too busy hanging on to pay attention.
17:25:49 <andythenorth> persistent sheep array?
17:26:03 <andythenorth> can we add moving objects to the map?
17:39:52 <andythenorth> objects with persistent storage?
17:44:08 <andythenorth> my kids had a viking game with sheep on the landscape
17:44:14 <andythenorth> you could poke them and knock them over
17:44:17 <andythenorth> or make them jump
17:44:30 <andythenorth> we need more clickable objects
17:44:34 <andythenorth> and triggerable sounds
17:53:11 <johnfranklin> Just found Theia as a very "good" open source IDE
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17:59:28 <peter1138> Looks like a VS Code ripoff.
18:00:36 <johnfranklin> I gave up learning to use emacs
18:01:08 <andythenorth> Pedestrian Storage Array?
18:02:45 <johnfranklin> hmm, how to directly edit html pages on a ftp server...
18:03:55 <andythenorth> some ftp clients can do it
18:04:02 <andythenorth> but it sounds like quite a wrong starting point 😛
18:04:08 <andythenorth> I would be asking "why?"
18:04:24 <peter1138> Download from server, edit locally, upload to server.
18:04:46 <peter1138> You might find an IDE plugin that automates that for you. VS Code can do it for SFTP, for sure.
18:05:13 <johnfranklin> andythenorth: why "wrong"
18:08:08 <andythenorth> it's remote editing live in prod?
18:08:21 <johnfranklin> I have my own website and server. the thing I want to achieve is to sync the public-viewable content of the website with a GitHub Repo and with my local folder automatically.
18:08:46 <andythenorth> do you have AWS or Cloudflare in your region?
18:09:47 <andythenorth> you want to do server -> github and server -> local?
18:09:50 <johnfranklin> That server is located at Tokyo, so it is somehow easier
18:10:01 <andythenorth> usual route is local -> github -> prod server
18:10:15 <andythenorth> although my grf docs are local -> prod
18:10:34 <johnfranklin> local -> github and local -> server
18:11:08 <johnfranklin> server -> local -> github? 😵💫
18:12:01 <peter1138> my usual workflow is local -> git -> merge to main (deploy to test) -> tag release (deploy to prod)
18:12:30 <andythenorth> I never bothered connecting GHA to AWS
18:12:46 <andythenorth> because I don't want to learn how to provision an IAM key into GH safely
18:13:13 <andythenorth> I could configure an eventbridge job that runs a lambda that pulls from git
18:13:32 <andythenorth> but my docs repo is about 2GB, and polling it from a lambda....I don't know how efficient that will be
18:14:11 <andythenorth> I guess I could make GHA publish an artefact and then have a lambda that transfers that to AWS
18:18:26 <andythenorth> hmm I could write an API gateway with some simple auth on it, or just a token
18:18:35 <andythenorth> then have GH hit that when a new tag is pushed
18:18:49 <andythenorth> then have AWS fetch the tag
18:19:09 * andythenorth full convert to serverless these days
18:19:18 <andythenorth> used to be major sceptic
18:19:54 <peter1138> My data needs to live on a server somewhere...
18:25:36 <andythenorth> that's a bold concept 🙂
18:26:01 <andythenorth> you could keep it it an eventually mostly consistent DynamoDB
18:26:23 <andythenorth> or do what AWS appear to do a lot internally: everything is just a blob in an S3 bucket
18:26:54 <peter1138> Does that work with PostgreSQL?
18:26:58 <andythenorth> it all makes sense as long as you don't think too much or too often about it
18:27:23 <andythenorth> and then at the and of the month: Fun With Cost Explorer
18:27:27 <andythenorth> when the bill arrives
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19:56:46 <peter1138> Hmm, how do I fix the simulation rate in JGRPP?
19:57:11 <peter1138> Ah, game tick rate.
19:57:32 <peter1138> Defaults to the old wrong value, hidden behind an advanced setting.
20:30:21 <andythenorth> persistent storage for pantograph state? 😛
20:33:48 <andythenorth> that would trigger on railtype change 😛
20:34:06 <andythenorth> wonder how I do it now
20:35:19 <andythenorth> tile_powers_railtype, in every graphics chain
20:36:11 <_glx_> yeah var 4A check when drawing
21:07:26 <peter1139> That's probably relatively cheap.
21:20:37 <andythenorth> I wonder if there's any Horse profiling
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