IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-08-13
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04:43:26 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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07:37:19 <LordAro> dead code nearly made it 10 years
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09:30:03 <peter1138> MB has decreed that prop 0E should not be used, 1A does everything.
09:37:23 <reldred> Meh, I’m not sure I care about MB’s opinions as much anymore as I did a decade ago.
09:40:20 <_jgr_> Wasn't that OzTrans who asserted that?
09:41:39 <reldred> oh dear, him even less.
09:42:45 <wensimehrp> ten years ago I was playing transport general
09:56:29 <johnfranklin> I was playing *The Sims Freeplay*
09:57:11 <gwyd4016> I have to say I lost a lot of my respect for MB when I tried to get help with using m4nfo
10:00:42 <andythenorth> handbags at dawn
10:02:39 <andythenorth> oof, why I don't keep my mouth shut, I'm not sure
10:02:53 <andythenorth> but it puzzles me that I know so much less than some of the other authors
10:03:15 <andythenorth> like...I can't keep track of all this precise detail about all the actions and triggers etc
10:03:28 <andythenorth> but I manage to actually ship grfs that do a lot
10:05:34 <reldred> andythenorth: this, I'm getting tired of grf scientists who keep all their findings to themselves and don't release anything to the public.
10:08:53 <reldred> especially when they're so violently 'don't touch my stuff'
10:09:13 <andythenorth> I'm mostly live-and-let-live
10:09:20 <andythenorth> but also I'm easily confused
10:09:54 <reldred> my brain lately is soup
10:10:12 <andythenorth> peter1138: 2007, that's definitely past you
10:10:19 <andythenorth> basically a different human
10:10:22 <reldred> i would like it if life would stop... doing whatever it's doing at the moment.
10:10:35 <andythenorth> you've had covid?
10:10:47 <andythenorth> or you're over the age of 37?
10:10:57 <peter1138> I assume patchman was still around in 2007, so it could've come from him.
10:11:59 <reldred> andythenorth: nah, dad's in hospital with RSV on top of, well, everything else going on with him (kidney failure, probably mesothelioma, cardiac issues, etc. etc.)
10:12:32 <reldred> yeah he's uhhh, done about twenty years of fucking around with his diabetes and now he's finding out. A lot.
10:12:42 <andythenorth> reverse parenting era
10:12:54 <reldred> livers shot, kidneys are shot, lungs are swiss cheese, hearts kaput,
10:13:13 <reldred> and then he goes and gets TurboCovid++ on top of it
10:15:28 <reldred> so yes, my brain is a bucket of soup atm
10:16:43 <reldred> andythenorth: eh, not quite, i'm 35, my mum won't need that sort of attention for a long while yet, but my dad has been a very silly boy.
10:22:21 <peter1138> Not exactly documentation...
10:22:39 <andythenorth> if we knew what we know now
10:22:44 <andythenorth> would we change anything about grf? 😛
10:23:19 <peter1138> act2 would use a word for its id.
10:23:45 <andythenorth> everything else is basically perfect?
10:31:55 <peter1138> > cd: error retrieving current directory: getcwd: cannot access parent directories: No such file or directory
10:34:05 <peter1138> Someone told me that modern game engines can multithread.
10:34:25 <peter1138> I mean... that isn't quite it.
10:36:02 <peter1138> Interestingly when I opened ttdpatch in vs code, it opened up in station triggers. So I must have been looking for exactly the same thing, but my checkout is from May this year.
10:48:03 <peter1138> Hmm, where did I leave this code change that I now need...
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11:17:28 <peter1138> And whoops, yes, I miss-attributed.
12:17:02 <peter1138> Looks like it's 10 bits in JGRPP.
12:17:13 <peter1138> Those bits are split across m4 and m3.
12:17:32 <peter1138> I bumped it to 12 bits of m8, which is otherwise unused for house tiles.
12:17:57 <peter1138> My animation tile changes use 2 bits in m8, so 14 bits of m8 is feasible.
12:22:32 <peter1138> JGRPP uses an off-map btree to store animation tile data.
12:27:40 <peter1138> So 1024 houses in JGRPP, that's "enough" but I went with 4096 because larger than 2x2 😄
12:31:16 <peter1138> Hmm, I guess multi tile house continution information could use only 2 bits.
12:32:20 <peter1138> You can't do V shaped layouts then though, as a northern-most tile is required.
12:35:14 <reldred> Greater than 2x2 is going to need some town tweaks. ‘More Betterer Roads’ layout (branch even less than better roads layout does), and there needs to be something to allow larger buildings to clobber any offending unprotected house in their way when being constructed or theyll just never show up.
12:35:41 <reldred> 2x2’s are already scarce for that reason
12:42:47 <audigex> reldred: It does always seem odd to me to be part of a community for an open source game and then just... not embrace the open source part. But it's their work and their choice at the end of the day
12:42:47 <audigex> I do get a bit of the "What if someone takes my work and ruins it" thing, but it's unlikely someone does that while you're active and the tradeoff is that once you're gone from the community someone else might be able to take your work and continue making it good
12:43:43 <audigex> Although keeping the code tricks a secret seems to be done out of sheer bloody-mindedness to me, even if you want to retain control over your artwork
12:45:17 <peter1138> Road layout is kinda a separate issue.
12:48:48 <peter1138> The obnoxious "improved" 2x2 and 3x3 grid layouts are going to block everything...
12:49:45 <peter1138> Oops, Legacy of Rust crashed dsda-doom again, and left MIDI notes stuck on 😄
12:54:40 <andythenorth> peter1138: GRF feature 0x17: Road Layout?
12:54:54 <andythenorth> "GS could do it" 😛
12:55:03 <peter1138> "But my city won't grow as fast as possible"
12:57:23 <kuhnovic> peter1138: And that's how songs like Van Halen's Jump are born
13:08:03 <peter1138> This is meant to be an official add-on (like TNT Evilution or Plutonia) but the texture set is vastly different and there are different enemies and weapons.
13:08:19 <peter1138> So it just doesn't feel quite right.
13:10:22 <talltyler> People who want to play with 2x2/3x3 grids just shouldn’t use GRFs with larger buildings. I don’t see the problem. 😉
13:13:04 <peter1138> Hehe, let towns "buy" land and remove reoads get enough space.
13:13:44 <peter1138> Did someone say town zoming?
13:15:31 <talltyler> Town growth code is such a mess, it could probably benefit from such a rewrite 🙂 (keeping old behavior as an option for compatibility and pitchforks, of course)
13:18:34 <peter1138> I don't think fallback compatibility is much of an issue.
13:19:06 <peter1138> At that point you've already accepted that changing NewGRFs in game can mess things up.
13:19:13 <peter1138> (But try not to crash)
13:46:34 <talltyler> I meant “balance” and new behavior like zoning, not changing GRFs mid-game. The existing fallback house system works fine for that.
13:47:05 <peter1138> Yeah, sorry that should've been a reply to the discussion post which explcitly talks about fallback houses 🙂
13:48:05 <talltyler> Ah, I did not see that pose
13:48:26 <peter1138> It was yours. From months ago 😉
13:50:14 <peter1138> lol, this contractor guy...
13:50:34 <peter1138> I've been badly managing database schema changes, doing it all manually across 4 different instances (dev, test, demo & prod)
13:51:27 <peter1138> Contractor has his own local database instance (avoids having to deal with permissions, vpns, etc...) which obviously I can't manually update.
13:52:02 <peter1138> So I finally implemented automatically applying schema updates into the system
13:52:25 <peter1138> "Do you really trust that?"
13:53:21 <peter1138> Versus logging into separate databases and making sure I manually run all the same queries...? Yeah I kinda do 🙂
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14:26:10 <peter1138> I'm sure it's lovely but not my cup of tea.
14:26:54 <peter1138> Their quote of 30% cut in post-deployment errors is interesting though.
14:27:07 <peter1138> A 30% cut isn't that good really.
14:29:24 <peter1138> I've already integrated DbUp, which is basic but suits my needs. And doesn't require contacting anyone to get a quote 🙂
14:29:25 <scramjet> talltyler: Zoning, with an Anno-style/RVG goods fulfillment tiers *chefs kiss*
14:48:08 <talltyler> ITL Houses already does that, but without any sort of UI to tell you what you need to deliver 🙂
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15:46:00 <andythenorth> standardised town zone label schema?
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17:24:02 <andythenorth> I really shouldn't allow the player to toggle wagon random-ness by flipping the vehicle?
17:24:09 <andythenorth> "asking for a friend"
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18:30:57 <scramjet> talltyler: Yes, I do love ITL btw - I think it would be fun to tier these rules by resource type RVG style (maybe this description is not fully hydrated and it does do this) e.g. can't get skyscrapers without vehicle (FIRS)/valuables(vanilla) delivery. Would love to be able to have this mechanic across all building sets too...
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19:16:02 <peter1138> Hmm, anyone have a legit example of a game that is slow due to animated tiles?
19:16:31 <peter1138> The save I have that demonstrates it is a bit broken.
19:18:35 <andythenorth> sorry I do not 😐
19:41:35 <peter1138> No difference with Wentbourne but I wouldn't expect any as it doesn't use NewGRFs...
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19:42:50 <LordAro> no difference to wentbourne? scrap it.
20:11:11 <peter1138> Did you use property 1A?
20:26:01 <peter1138> Well OE is obsolete.
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20:45:56 <_pruple> which it is, although so is 1a, if we're reaching for the most flexible way to code a station
20:46:17 <peter1138> Don't people just code them as overlapping objects these days?
20:47:50 <_pruple> well, we used to do objects as non-track station tiles. It's the circle of thing, innit.
20:53:00 <peter1138> Stations are obsolete.
20:55:47 <peter1138> Enable infinite money and just build objects, nothing else.
20:56:10 <peter1138> No need for stations if there's no cargo and no vehicles to transport no cargo.
20:58:17 <andythenorth> long time etc etc
21:16:05 <andythenorth> British Sunshines?
21:19:59 <_pruple> doin' a plane, trying to get back into it. Try and have some stuff finished by christmas - didn't I say that last year? and the year before...
21:24:04 <andythenorth> it will all be over by christmas
21:24:20 <andythenorth> I did some pixels
21:26:15 <_pruple> I heard a rumour that IH was finished
21:26:39 <talltyler> Solution: Don't specify which Christmas, could be 2027 😛
21:27:51 <johnfranklin> The first year from when OpenTTD has cross bridges 😛
21:29:13 <andythenorth> _pruple: it was then it wasn't
21:29:26 <andythenorth> it's gone a bit Alice in Wonderland
21:29:32 <andythenorth> Schrodinger's Horse
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23:05:30 <peter1138> Hmm, why do only road waypoints have a specific map bit for snow/desert?
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