IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-07-08
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04:43:51 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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07:14:20 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 27 of 2024 (by OpenTTD Survey)
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07:20:13 <yiffgirl> running a compile at -j1 to try and prevent my computer from running out of ram
07:20:13 <yiffgirl> god. this is a geologic pace
07:32:18 <truebrain> and you know the worst part? The most memory consumer is the linker 😢
07:34:09 <LordAro> depends what -j you were using before
07:34:18 <yiffgirl> am i just doomed to have to buy more ram to compile this thing then
07:34:31 <yiffgirl> LordAro: none, just `make`
07:34:45 <truebrain> yiffgirl: you are about to find out!
07:34:50 <LordAro> do you have MAKEFLAGS set?
07:35:03 <LordAro> because otherwise make just uses -j1 anyway
07:35:30 <truebrain> also know that clang compiles faster; so that might help you too
07:35:47 <yiffgirl> makeflags? i haven't manually set anything, so probably not
07:35:58 <LordAro> release mode will be slower than debug mode too
07:36:18 <yiffgirl> truebrain: i would be very interested in learning how to use clang to compile openttd.
07:36:31 <yiffgirl> LordAro: default is debug, right?
07:37:46 <LordAro> cmake -B new-build-dir -DCMAKE_C_COMPILER=clang -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER=clang++
07:38:11 <LordAro> could also try ninja with `-G Ninja`, which some people find is faster than make
07:38:47 <yiffgirl> it's still at 0% of the first object so i'll cancel it and give this a go
07:39:13 <LordAro> what on earth are you running this on?
07:39:14 <truebrain> are you using a potato?
07:39:17 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: 0% should be doing codegen for strings, or am I wrong?
07:40:14 <truebrain> settingsgen is a very small file, relatively speaking
07:40:20 <truebrain> how long was it running there?
07:40:31 <LordAro> (that's 0% of the total, there's no per-object file progression)
07:40:36 <truebrain> seems you are better off renting a cheap VM, or use GitHub Codespaces 😛
07:40:42 <andriydohniak> Something is very wrong, on my worst hardware this takes < 0.5 s
07:41:02 <truebrain> seriously, even a 486 would take less time to compile that file 😛
07:41:08 <andriydohniak> I think that is impossible to be that bad, this is some sort of software issue
07:41:10 <truebrain> is your disk in orbit of the earth or something?
07:41:26 <truebrain> running on a Raspberry Pi 1 with a very old SD?
07:41:35 <truebrain> you do need to tell us what you are compiling this on, otherwise we just keep on trolling 😛
07:41:52 <truebrain> but seriously, if that file alone takes 20+ minutes, you will never finish compiling OpenTTD 😦
07:41:56 <andriydohniak> truebrain: If the ubuntu with gnome can run, I am sure its something much newer
07:42:10 <yiffgirl> i didn't realise you were trolling
07:42:10 <yiffgirl> it is an older computer but not that old. let me see if i can find the specs
07:42:19 <LordAro> impending disk failure seems quite likely
07:42:29 <andriydohniak> truebrain: I suspect either some file corruption or wild missconfiguration
07:42:34 <LordAro> even if it were deep into swap
07:43:03 <truebrain> yiffgirl: sorry, but I didn't actually ask if your disk was in orbit 😛
07:43:33 <LordAro> 100% swap usage is... weird
07:43:48 <LordAro> given 60% actual memory usage*
07:44:23 <truebrain> lol, okay, 20+ minutes with that CPU is very odd 🙂
07:44:33 <LordAro> i'd expect about 20 minutes total
07:44:44 <andriydohniak> Not odd, impossible without unrelated issues
07:45:10 <peter1139> Did you press ^S in that window?
07:45:27 <truebrain> andriydohniak: let's drop the drama and hyperbolics, and actual try to help yiffgirl 🙂
07:45:35 <yiffgirl> peter1139: i don't believe so
07:45:47 <andriydohniak> truebrain: ok :)
07:46:05 <andriydohniak> 1. Try canseling and doing `make clean` and starting again
07:46:33 <andriydohniak> 2. Try updating your system with `sudo apt dist-upgrade`, hopefully it will overwrite any corruption
07:46:35 <LordAro> only reason to run make clean is to see whether make is working at all
07:46:43 <andriydohniak> 3. Reboot after update
07:46:44 <LordAro> otherwise just delete the directory
07:46:58 <truebrain> yiffgirl: how long did the `git clone` take?
07:47:52 <yiffgirl> LordAro: the swap is probably because i had some programs open, closed them, and the computer left them in memory or whatever the correct terminology is
07:47:52 <yiffgirl> so my memory usage was higher a while ago but i closed some windows
07:48:31 <truebrain> and is this a Linux machine, or is this MinGW or something?
07:48:49 <LordAro> sure, but linux wouldn't normally entirely fill swap
07:48:58 <LordAro> makes me think that you might have inverted swappiness
07:49:14 <LordAro> i.e. it's preferring to put things into swap, rather than the reverse
07:49:20 <yiffgirl> truebrain: i don't recall. it was a while ago.
07:49:20 <yiffgirl> i did run `git fetch upstream` earlier today and that finished quickly
07:49:47 <LordAro> `cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness`
07:49:51 <yiffgirl> i did tamper with those settings a while back.
07:50:48 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: Can you reboot and check if it's getting utilised first again?
07:51:33 <yiffgirl> i tried setting it to 90 a few weeks ago, i guess that was just for the powercycle and not saved
07:51:43 <yiffgirl> andriydohniak: sure.
07:51:50 <LordAro> without editing /etc/sysctl.conf, yeah
07:52:24 <yiffgirl> you're going to all laugh at me
07:52:56 <andriydohniak> You didn's scroll?
07:53:33 <yiffgirl> i feel like a right plonker.
07:53:54 <truebrain> well, that is a good sign 🙂
07:53:54 <andriydohniak> Happens to the best of us! (no idea what a right plonker is)
07:53:58 <truebrain> at least now you have progress 🙂
07:54:06 <LordAro> i do that quite often in tmux windows
07:54:12 <LordAro> of course that tends to actually suspend output
07:54:31 <LordAro> and ^S accidentally too
07:54:39 <yiffgirl> andriydohniak: brit slang for dumbass
07:54:52 <andriydohniak> LordAro: I use tmux, and in my configuration, it puts the line count at the top right (I think by default), so I usually notice it
07:55:29 <LordAro> easy to accidentally apply a single mouse scroll without noticing though
07:55:35 <yiffgirl> well, at least it wasn't file corruption or anything nasty like that!
07:55:58 <LordAro> i'd still consider that swap to be a bit odd
07:56:01 <andriydohniak> LordAro: You can make the config change the bar color to red on scroll, if it bothers you much
07:57:19 <yiffgirl> LordAro: it does seem to like to hold onto stuff once it's in swap yeah.
07:57:32 <andriydohniak> LordAro: I would guess a memory heavy process running in the background but not accessing it's memory, like a browser with a tonn of open tabs, and after some memory is freed, the swap wasn't transferred back to the RAM, but I am not really sure how it works
07:59:05 <yiffgirl> andriydohniak: exactly
07:59:05 <yiffgirl> i have hundreds upon hundreds of open tabs, closing firefox is my main way to reclaim memory
07:59:32 <LordAro> i hope you've got the various "deep sleep" plugins
07:59:35 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: Are you a mirror?
08:00:32 <yiffgirl> LordAro: i think this is the exact thing i followed, i just didn't bother saving it because i wanted to see how it fared
08:00:32 <yiffgirl> i'll make it permanent this time since it worked fine
08:00:48 <yiffgirl> LordAro: deep sleep plugins?
08:03:53 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: I also saw you have a 1.5 tb of hard drive space, I would recommend making your swap bigger, much bigger, at least the size of your ram
08:04:13 <peter1139> Adding more RAM if possible wouldn't be the worst idea...
08:04:54 <LordAro> andriydohniak: eh, that advice is generally considered out of date these days
08:05:00 <LordAro> swap is slow, really slow
08:05:07 <LordAro> especially if it's on an HDD like the 1.5T probably is
08:05:22 <yiffgirl> peter1139: i'd certainly like to. maybe in a couple of paychecks
08:05:43 <LordAro> there's a "great suspender" for chrome, i think there's an equivalent for FF somewhere
08:06:03 <andriydohniak> LordAro: Yea, but I was just thinking they probably gets OOMed pretty often, if they managed to fill the swap to the brim
08:06:59 <andriydohniak> I think tree style tabs has an unload button, and plugins similar to it
08:08:02 <peter1139> Huh, "unloadOnLowMemory" was disabled for me. Hmm.
08:08:10 <peter1139> I don't have low memory mind you.
08:08:41 <andriydohniak> Sideberry, Tree Style Tabs doesn't
08:09:04 <yiffgirl> peter1139: me too. set to true now
08:09:13 <andriydohniak> peter1139: Me too, this will help me, thanks!
08:10:05 <yiffgirl> andriydohniak: most of the time it just ends up freezing. i don't know if that's because the oomkiller is too slow to react or what
08:11:32 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: I have the same issue with zram swap enabled, I would look into that, but tbh I haven't solved this problem for myself either, but I would start with bigger swap and decreasing swappiness, I know it's slow, but slow with a chance to close the memory hog is better then fast but frozen
08:14:30 <LordAro> the unfortunate fact is that 6G RAM just isn't enough for web browsing alongside anything else these days
08:14:40 <LordAro> especially if you've got hundreds of tabs and you're wanting to do compiling as well
08:15:09 <yiffgirl> i'm nervous about fiddling with partitions though. and though it's good for speed i think the swap is on an ssd, so i don't really want to shorten its lifespan more than i already am
08:15:36 <andriydohniak> I have 4, and discord running on the side, and LSP running in my neovim, sometimes rust, it's very painful
08:15:55 <yiffgirl> i used to be on 4. it was hell
08:15:56 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: Don't! Use a swap file (unless you are using BTRFS)
08:16:14 <yiffgirl> andriydohniak: i am using btrfs
08:16:36 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: Ok, me to 🤣 there is a guide on how to do it in btrfs
08:17:33 <yiffgirl> can swap files be stored on ntfs
08:17:33 <yiffgirl> because the old old old windows install i used to have is on an hdd
08:17:51 <andriydohniak> `btrfs filesystem mkswapfile --size 2G swapfile`
08:18:01 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: Don't bother
08:18:11 <andriydohniak> but not 2g, and you will need to add it to fstab
08:18:28 <andriydohniak> I would recommend not putting it in your home dir, put it in /swapfile or something
08:19:08 <pickpacket> I'm going to go through the setup for my local backup soon-ish. I'm using ext4 now, but reserving 10% of a rather large disk to lost+found seems very excessive
08:19:38 <pickpacket> Ideally I'd want a snapshotting fs
08:20:18 <andriydohniak> pickpacket: I am using btrfs and btrbk for automatic snapshots with a possiblity of transfering snapshots to an external hard drive
08:20:54 <andriydohniak> but it will probably be a bit less efficient then 90% depending on how often you do snapshots, and for how long you store them
08:20:58 <yiffgirl> a friend of mine has been using bcache. they seem to enjoy it
08:22:21 <andriydohniak> yiffgirl: I think btrfs can do similar things on it's own, but tbh I don't have much experience with storage caching, but it seams really cool!
08:26:35 <peter1139> I still just use ext4.
08:27:19 <andriydohniak> And you are not loosing on anything except snapshots, if you don't need them, there is no need to switch, I just lost my data 1 too many times
08:30:37 <andriydohniak> Except of you are doing regular manuall backups with something like rsync or timeshift, then btrfs and btrbk(btrfs send, btrfs recv wrapper) will help you a lot
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17:13:14 <silent_tempest> Is there a reason the graph keys are separated from the graph windows?
17:14:05 <silent_tempest> The cargo payment rate has the key inside the window:
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19:55:01 <peter1139> LordAro, hmm, do I ride down to the start of my little tour?
20:26:16 <silent_tempest> What's the opinion on using the 'request review" button on PR's?
20:35:08 <peter1139> Hmm, need to do 85 miles before 1.30pm then.
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22:26:43 <talltyler> silent_tempest: I can only speak for myself, but I am not comfortable enough with my lack of fontcache knowledge to approve your PR.
22:27:01 <talltyler> I am not ignoring it, just not qualified to review further 🙂
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