IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-05-07
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04:41:10 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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06:06:51 <pickpacket> peter1138: hello, tautology 😂
06:09:11 <pickpacket> Found the NewGRFs with that name
06:09:39 <ahyangyi> Does the new preview window affect stations?
06:13:54 <pickpacket> peter1138: sorry, I realise I didn’t say what exactly it is I wanted to know. I wonder where all thos random cars come from
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08:22:33 <peter1138> ahyangyi: Yes, station, waypoint, roadstop, and object build windows all share the base code.
09:01:59 <pickpacket> huh. Iiuc those are vehicles you buy and add to your vehicle fleet just like any other? And they would stop at stations too?
09:24:24 <pickpacket> meh. Ruins the fun a little bit. Still a cool idea though
09:25:35 <peter1138> I think the idea is you run with an AI that spams them everywhere.
09:26:14 <pickpacket> oh! Yeah, that's smart
09:36:59 <ahyangyi> peter1138: Yeah, I guess I need to grab a nightly version to see how it interacts with my mod
09:37:14 <peter1138> ahyangyi: It's not merged yet, so no.
09:37:31 <ahyangyi> Uh, then I need to do build it myself
09:38:08 <peter1138> If your "mod" is a source change, then you need to anyway.
09:38:20 <peter1138> If your "mod" is a NewGRF, then it's a not a mod 😉
09:38:24 <Rubidium> peter1138: you know you got a knack for find rabbit holes
09:39:34 <Rubidium> "why does SendNet actually exist in the first place?"
09:39:55 <ahyangyi> Technically I do both, but my adventures to openttd source never went as deep as rabbit holes
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09:50:12 <peter1138> ahyangyi: You can of course just use the web-based preview build, if your content is in the usual place.
09:50:50 <ahyangyi> It's OK, building doesn't trouble me
10:18:06 <asasnat> what is the advantage to using IRC and can I do so too?
10:36:39 <peter1138> You are no longer beholden to Discord Incorporated. I wonder what their business model is. Do enough users do this Nitro rubbish?
10:37:17 <LordAro> ...does discord prevent you from saying 'fuck' ?
10:37:32 <peter1138> No, a word much ruder than that.
10:38:16 <peter1138> Well, I would tell you, but i can't.
10:38:34 <peter1138> But it rhymes with 'art'.
10:41:15 <Rubidium> can't find anything... did I fard it?
10:52:20 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: Ah, I get it, it's like NightGFXing things progressively
10:54:13 <peter1138> I don't get it. I don't see any visual benefit.
11:01:23 <andythenorth> nah it was a throwaway idea to see if it had any benefit
11:01:32 <andythenorth> if it doesn't, it doesn't
11:02:12 <peter1138> Good because we don't really have a way to apply more than one colour remap at a time.
11:03:02 <peter1138> And of course with 8bpp there aren't all that many shaders of darker...
12:16:49 <merni> LordAro: Discord doesn't, this server's funny admins do :)
13:52:06 <LordAro> "<colleague> has an MR with 600 review comments on"
13:52:23 <LordAro> oh, that's why gitlab is running slowly and the host is swapping pages
14:13:28 <merni> Sounds like great design :)
14:31:33 <peter1139> Gitlab was pretty inefficient when I tried it a few years ago.
14:33:06 <LordAro> it's not the lightest of things, for sure
15:07:42 <peter1138> Yeah that went quite deep 🙂
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15:58:37 <asasnat> asasnat: well, looks like my nick is already taken on OFTC anyway
16:03:13 <Rubidium> well, that might be you through the bridge
16:03:43 <LordAro> "taken" rather than "registered" will just be discord-you, yes
16:04:38 <asasnat> is that a problem? never used IRC before
16:06:03 <LordAro> no, just means you can't use that nick
16:06:38 <LordAro> well, without managing to kick discord-you off and registering it
16:06:47 <LordAro> (the bridge will then use a different nick if there's a conflict)
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16:11:13 <asasnatirc> great i can now chat on my calculator
16:14:05 <merni> ...your calculator has an IRC client?
16:14:44 <asasnatirc> I don't even have one that can be programmed
16:15:10 <LordAro> (ok that's just a screen, but still)
16:17:10 <LordAro> not an irc client, but it is a networking stack, so probably wouldn't be too much more effort
16:18:01 <LordAro> oh wait, there is an irc client
16:19:32 <merni> Oh right. Graphing calculators are a thing
16:20:29 <merni> I've used normal (non-programmable) scientific calculator, and I've used a positively ancient Casio "Personal Computer" that could be programmed in BASIC, but never one of those
16:21:08 <merni> Now I wonder if the FX-750P could do Ethernet... it does have some sort of interface...
16:21:59 <asasnatirc> I've heard of Amigas doing modern email
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16:25:23 <peter1138> Sometimes have to remind myself that the powerful home computers from the late 80s are not powerful 🙂
16:27:17 <asasnatirc> wish I had a propa retro computer to tinker around with
16:27:27 <asasnatirc> anyway, that's enough IRC for the time being
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16:37:58 <peter1138> Oof how did I mess that up so bad 😦
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18:19:03 <talltyler> Best feature of 15.0, calling it now.
18:20:51 <peter1138> Hmm, did I managed to make all those cargo changes without breaking Industries of the Caribbean?
18:39:21 <talltyler> peter1138: Dunno, who plays that garbage? 😛
18:47:52 <talltyler> Yeah, I am extremely skeptical that unbunching could affect CargoDist in any way
18:49:01 <locosage> getting linker errors on libpqxx example
18:50:00 <talltyler> That’s the only one to convert
18:58:14 <talltyler> Okay, that’s enough issue triage for today
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19:28:26 <bootmii> As a (former) Coop player the best signal strategy is a hybrid of the old and new behavior, but closer to the old
19:40:43 <peter1138> Well, nested widgets do like to nest.
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20:36:48 <LordAro> silent_tempest: you don't need to engage Zorg if you don't want to
20:37:00 <LordAro> they're very much an ideas person
20:37:32 <silent_tempest> I have no idea who I have to engage with or not
20:38:10 <LordAro> actual developers are the only "requirement", everything else is optional :)
20:39:00 <silent_tempest> So people on the thread with "member" or "contributor" tags?
20:39:50 <silent_tempest> What is contributor for then?
20:40:06 <LordAro> those who have had a PR merged before
20:40:34 <silent_tempest> But not enough to earn the "member" title then?
20:40:34 <LordAro> (you can mouse over those tags)
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20:43:56 <silent_tempest> LordAro: I did not know that... And I also didn't even notice I had earned a "contributor" tag lol
20:44:34 <peter1138> Maybe I should just finish this off.
20:45:08 <peter1138> Seeing as you are adamant on continuing down the path of using the file picker.
20:45:48 <silent_tempest> I'm not adamant
20:45:56 <silent_tempest> I just want to get something working
20:45:59 <silent_tempest> Then make it better
20:46:21 <FLHerne> "Members" can approve/merge PRs, close (other people's) issues, add labels and so on
20:47:22 <FLHerne> afaik "Contributor" has no extra powers, just signifies that someone's done some actual work :-)
20:47:41 <LordAro> i have no issues with a file picker to start with
20:47:59 <peter1138> It's a stupid way of picking fonts.
20:48:12 <LordAro> so it'll get removed if there's no progress on the system picker
20:48:27 <silent_tempest> I'm aware that getting things merged gives me motivation and confidence. Which means I'm likely to be more successful with smaller chunks opposed to super large changes that are likely to never see the light of day
20:49:14 <silent_tempest> Like I know for certain I will need some one else to help with the Mac stuff
20:49:42 <silent_tempest> I don't own one and can't test. I can write the code and ask some one else to build it and test it for me but that's all I can do
20:49:56 <peter1138> We're mostly in the same boat there.
20:51:06 <silent_tempest> A friend did give me an old macbook but it's broken if I can fix it, it's mine
20:51:17 <silent_tempest> But that ain't happening any time soon
20:51:38 <silent_tempest> Also fuck I have no idea how to get my windows builds working anymore
20:51:51 <silent_tempest> Mircosoft really doesn't want you to still be using Windows 7. Lol
20:52:29 <silent_tempest> I mean it is 14ish years old. But it's all I got for Windows systems
20:54:42 <talltyler> “Member” can also mean translator, right?
20:55:36 <talltyler> OpenTTD organization has 289 members 🙂
20:56:56 <silent_tempest> I get a 404 on that link
20:57:32 <talltyler> Oh, you probably need to be a Member to see it 😛
20:57:44 <talltyler> 14 developers, Zorg is not one of them
20:57:49 <silent_tempest> talltyler: Maybe that would explain it
20:58:11 <peter1138> (There is no cabal)
20:59:00 <silent_tempest> Man that is before my time.. Lol
20:59:45 <talltyler> Anyway, I think Fonts having its own tab is perfectly fine
21:01:13 <silent_tempest> Also to be fair to myself. I had not heard of fontconfig before you mentioned it Peter. I just kind of assumed using a load file dialog was the way you picked fonts
21:02:48 <peter1138> Hmm. when has any program ever done that though?
21:04:53 <silent_tempest> I guess the last time I tried to change the font of anything it was in some /etc/... config file?
21:05:23 <silent_tempest> Office programs tend to have dropdown menus
21:05:54 <peter1138> And "TINC" is before your time? 😉
21:06:50 <peter1138> And that was one of my main objections to a font picker... office programs tend to have them. Games less so.
21:07:00 <peter1138> But if it's to be done, we do it properly 😉
21:07:41 <peter1138> I can see about making my font listing code work in a more useful way.
21:08:13 <silent_tempest> Most games doesn't ship in some many languages... Or have the ability to add some much content like OpenTTD has with the grf downloads
21:10:31 <peter1138> And in case you're wondering, Font Settings is not a chooser 🙂
21:11:01 <silent_tempest> I get it you hate the chooser
21:12:11 <peter1138> Upside OpenTTD when?
21:12:39 <talltyler> Just turn your monitor upside-down 😉
21:13:26 <silent_tempest> peter1138: Is developing a fonconfig based approach a waste of my time or not?
21:14:21 <peter1138> No. And also the font-config part is already done in my branch.
21:14:52 <peter1138> But I could see about making font listing exist before there's a UI for it.
21:16:08 <_glx_> something to get the list, then a console command to display 😉
21:16:16 <_glx_> and UI can be added on top
21:16:23 <silent_tempest> Okay so just to be sure I'm going to work on the fontconfig code on my own and that branch you never finished is going to stay unfinished?
21:16:34 <_glx_> at least would validate the list stuff
21:16:52 <silent_tempest> I also lost the link to that branch a while ago
21:17:58 <_glx_> usualy what's delaying things is the UI part (and bikesheding)
21:18:46 <peter1138> The main issue with my UI is it ignores the glyphfallback checks, and will forcefully set the font.
21:19:07 <peter1138> Then when you quit and restart, then missing glyph checker kicks in and drops you back to a different font.
21:19:12 <_glx_> well fallback is "broken"
21:19:36 <silent_tempest> I hate all of that glyph code
21:19:50 <silent_tempest> I just am not sure how to make it better but all of that sucks IMO
21:20:07 <peter1138> Perhapswe should actually only use the missing glyph detection when autodetecting a font.
21:20:12 <_glx_> console commands runs fallback check, and it can affect all sizes while you're only trying to change one
21:20:25 <peter1138> Oh I had a patch for that as well.
21:20:49 <peter1138> But since OpenTTD Sans it's all bit irrelevant except for the poor CJK languages.
21:20:54 <_glx_> but indeed we could assume user knows what it does
21:21:47 <_glx_> IIRC if nothing is autodetected during fallback it will still use the set font even if it misses some glyphs
21:22:39 <Rubidium> would it make sense to merge silent_tempest's font UI without logic for choosing the font? So sprite and alias choices as well as the fontsize?
21:23:12 <peter1138> "Hey everyone, we designed a lovely scalable reproduction of the original game's font." "But I want to use Verdana from Windows 98!"
21:23:28 <peter1138> No, that does not make sense.
21:24:01 <_glx_> the button could just open a query box for now
21:25:01 <peter1138> That's basically a query box for "font medium xxxx".
21:25:24 <_glx_> yeah, but more friendly than the console
21:25:47 <peter1138> I think we should do it properly.
21:26:09 <peter1138> Get the font listing done first. Then add the UI.
21:26:12 <_glx_> but a proper picker is of course the best
21:26:47 <Rubidium> why not? Isn't being able to change the font size without having to go through the console already a useful feature for many users?
21:27:26 <peter1138> The font size selection won't work without a custom font configuration.
21:27:47 <peter1138> With the default sprite / OpenTTD font set up, it always uses the default sizes)
21:27:59 <silent_tempest> I got the sliders working way before I got the chooser working
21:28:03 <_glx_> openttd font is resizable
21:28:34 <peter1138> Yes it is, but only if you configure it as the font, instead of letting the game just use it.
21:29:23 <silent_tempest> Yeah I made some edits to the code that fixes that
21:30:56 <silent_tempest> This function is called when the sliders are used
21:32:58 <silent_tempest> Part of the problem with the existing code in the console command is yeah it's hard to edit the current config. And it sometimes forces updates on all of the fonts
21:33:19 <peter1138> I'm not sure where there's called, but that looks wrong to me—GUI code should not need to call a different function depending on whether it's default or not.
21:33:28 <_glx_> forced updates are due to fallback
21:34:33 <_glx_> fallback triggers if the chosen font misses glyphs
21:35:25 <silent_tempest> The GUI code just calls ResizeFont.
21:35:26 <_glx_> and small or large are checked for all strings even if they are not actually concerned
21:35:31 <silent_tempest> Which lives in fontcache.cpp
21:35:45 <silent_tempest> And it handles changing the size of whatever font is being used
21:36:12 <silent_tempest> Is the PR so big that reading it is daunting?
21:36:31 <peter1138> ``` if (!full_font.empty()) {
21:36:31 <peter1138> int size = FontCache::GetDefaultFontHeight(fs);```
21:37:07 <peter1138> This is why we ignore the user specified font size when using the default fonts.
21:37:15 <peter1138> It's an explicit decision to do so.
21:37:45 <peter1138> Changing that is probably fine, but I would guess fontcache.cpp:176 would be the place to do that.
21:40:35 <silent_tempest> Rubidium: I can make new PR without the chooser code but with the sliders and all of the other things if you want to do that.
21:41:00 <silent_tempest> Then the choosers can back per platform as I get to them
21:42:07 <peter1138> Looking at how default vs custom selection works right now, it might be that needs a clean up first. Looking at it again it seems overly complex.
21:42:40 <LordAro> silent_tempest: given the picker seems contentious, that seems sensible
21:42:59 <silent_tempest> Okay. Is this an acceptable compromise peter1138 ?
21:45:45 <peter1138> I am just a grizzly opinionated developer, you don't not need my 'approval' to do something. And I agree with splitting things up into smaller chunks -- part of that working out what depends on what.
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21:52:53 <_glx_> your `LoadFontHelper()` thing definitely deserves its own commit
21:57:48 <_glx_> actually it seems most of changes in fontcache.cpp are not directly related to the UI, so yeah more commits will help
21:58:56 <_glx_> (and I'm just looking at "Feature" commit)
22:00:34 <peter1138> Okay, got this working... by removing code, not adding code.
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22:16:17 <silent_tempest> I noticed this a while ago. ^^ Do we care alot about removing code that is essentially dead?
22:28:14 <peter1138> WIth this, all your change font size stuff has to do is... er... change the font size.
22:28:25 <peter1138> And do the reload, of course.
22:29:17 <silent_tempest> Didn't we talk about this?
22:29:42 <silent_tempest> You just re-implemented stuff that was in the fontpicker PR
22:30:59 <peter1138> I'm looking for it but I don't see anything like the changes I made.
22:32:12 <silent_tempest> I mean you did it differently but yeah it's resizing the default fonts right?
22:32:33 <peter1138> Sure there are loads of ways to skin a cat.
22:33:02 <silent_tempest> And nixing the LoadFont function with all of the parameters which I did find a use for though I can't remember what I thought it was good for off the top of my head
22:33:17 <silent_tempest> It might not be super needed I'll concede
22:36:08 <silent_tempest> But I'd really not have to merge code I wrote against some one else's code that does the same thing after I shared that I had made changes before hand...
22:39:31 <LordAro> don't tie yourself to the code
22:41:48 <LordAro> one of the reasons why we like commits to be individual (logical) changes, is it makes it much easier to swap out one part with a different implementation
22:42:03 <peter1138> Anyway, I broke window 😄
22:42:41 <_glx_> and stuff not using fonts warns too 🙂
22:44:02 <peter1138> I'll get around to that.
22:44:35 <peter1138> So it looks like it finds the font but can't load it. Hmm.
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22:48:13 <_glx_> maybe it used to fail, but it was unnoticed
22:48:31 <peter1138> Yeah. the old path doesn't give a warning.
22:49:23 <_glx_> well it's also using null video driver, so might explain
22:50:10 <_glx_> let's try to follow in the debugger
22:50:20 <peter1138> No I know what it is 🙂
22:50:48 <peter1138> Literally the path I removed doesn't give a warning if the font isn't found, the older path does because it thinks I've manually configured it.
22:51:49 <_glx_> but it's supposed to find it
22:52:03 <silent_tempest> LordAro: Failure is failure. Wasted time/effort is buzzkill for me
22:52:44 <_glx_> it's not wasted, your GUI stuff is still usable
22:53:35 <LordAro> there are many different ways of achieving the same goal
22:53:57 <silent_tempest> I don't have the mental fortitude for this today. I'll take a break and come back later
22:54:26 <LordAro> sometimes, success is spending time on one thing only to push someone else into doing it "for you"
22:54:42 <LordAro> the same goal is still achieved, and it wouldn't have been done without the initial input
23:00:04 <_glx_> weird `TryLoadFontFromFile` received "" as name, but I got the warnings with correct filenane
23:00:37 <peter1138> Oh yes. That's a stupid bug 🙂
23:00:56 <_glx_> if (!TryLoadFontFromFile(settings->font, logfont)) { <-- wrong font 🙂
23:01:10 <peter1138> A mix of using the std::string and the const char * version.
23:15:03 <peter1138> And cool, I found a console bug.
continue to next day ⏵
