IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-04-22
⏴ go to previous day
00:19:19 *** kamnet has quit IRC (Quit: User went offline on Discord a while ago)
01:42:54 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
02:31:35 *** gnu_jj_ has joined #openttd
02:34:43 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:40:39 *** D-HUND has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
04:40:39 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
05:17:54 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
07:12:46 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 16 of 2024 (by OpenTTD Survey)
07:24:20 <kuhnovic> No, it's that good 😉
07:24:29 <merni> Oh, varies between 0.1 and <0.1%. Cool
07:38:08 <kuhnovic> I'm browsing through the list of settings, and I can't help but wonder if people know these settings exist. Some of them seem quite useful but most players seem to have them at default, which may or may not be a decision they made themselves.
07:38:40 <kuhnovic> Probably a can't-see-the-forest-for-the-trees situation with this amount of settings 😛
07:43:01 <merni> kuhnovic: Which ones seem useful? :p
07:47:39 <kuhnovic> Well I'm heavily biased on this one `game.settings.gui.auto_remove_signals` because I created it, but there are more of them.
07:47:44 <merni> Good to see that already infinite money is used 1.3% of the time in vanilla and 7.4% in JGRPP :)
08:08:09 <blathijs> Reading the OpenTTD 14 changelog, and I see "Enable "Forbid 90 degree turns" setting by default". What an excellent plan! We should have done that years^Wdecades ago when (I think) I added that option ;-p
08:09:37 <blathijs> Also: Impressive list of changes, kudos!
08:09:50 <merni> What's "game.settings.gui.developer" that seemingly everyone uses 🤔
08:12:25 <_jgr_> 1 is the default value, that's not actually enabling it 😛
08:13:16 <_jgr_> The only difference it makes is to do with debug messages in the console
08:16:41 *** asasnat has joined #openttd
08:16:41 <asasnat> _glx_: hm, final release still loads the wrong font
08:24:00 <peter1138> It's because the mono font is not initialised until you look at a text file.
08:26:27 <peter1138> Fresh start of Chrome. Load up Teams. Shows me all my message history. Says I'm not logged in. This world of web-apps being mostly local is a pain.
08:34:55 <peter1138> Urgh, Chrome appears to be using an old certificate for this site I maintain...
08:43:30 <peter1138> ... because haproxy had failed to reload it on some of the front ends. Firefox apparently manages to find a working one, Chrome (correctly) doesn't.
08:44:04 <peter1138> Or maybe just lucky/unlucky choice in round-robin DNS...
09:15:12 <peter1138> LibreOffice behaves differently between Ctrl-V-paste and middle-click-paste.
09:21:11 <LordAro> just as well there aren't asian faces really...
09:21:44 <LordAro> ...out of context that might not read well
09:22:13 <LordAro> needs someone braver than i to touch #12555 anyway
09:23:07 <asasnat> codeurimpulsifviaGit: not sure if it's quite right to call it racist
09:23:12 <asasnat> definitely stereotypical though
09:23:42 <asasnat> I mean, if you asked me to think of an African or European person I'd probably be guilty of the same thing
09:24:42 <FLHerne> "Skin colour" is too reductive, perhaps "ethnicity"
09:25:10 *** ahyangyi has joined #openttd
09:25:25 <asasnat> I'd just change these two to say "Light-skinned" and "Dark-skinned" respectively
09:25:47 <asasnat> that way only a translation file alteration is needed
09:25:58 <FLHerne> remove the face generator, add a mini pixel editor where users can draw their own face
09:26:17 <asasnat> that's probably better for a patch pack
09:26:38 <asasnat> even then, I'd only approve of it if it was alongside the original faces, not a replacement of
09:26:40 <ahyangyi> Also that makes existing bots faceless
09:26:56 <FLHerne> how silly a suggestion do I have to make for people not to take it seriously
09:27:15 <ahyangyi> Ah, I just want AAAHogEx to draw a hog
09:27:37 <ahyangyi> And preferably a different one each time
09:28:17 <FLHerne> it does seem a bit of a gap that OTTD doesn't have any kind of east or south Asian faces
09:28:56 <FLHerne> grf doesn't really solve the problem, because faces are mainly a multiplayer thing and most servers won't add them
09:30:21 <FLHerne> unless one could install a local, static grf that provided new face sprites and then the final face sent over the network
09:30:31 *** brickblock19280 has joined #openttd
09:30:31 <brickblock19280> Currently they can be loaded as static but that is a bit weird with multiplayer
09:30:55 <FLHerne> but UI for local static grfs is anothe long-standing thing
09:54:24 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
09:55:43 <peter1138> I think that covers it for now.
09:55:55 <merni> Well, the names could still be easily changed
09:56:06 <peter1138> That does not achieve much.
09:56:30 <merni> It achieves not assuming that European = light-skinned and African = dark-skinned
10:00:01 <peter1138> Skin Colour: < 0 / 1 >
10:00:10 <peter1138> I guess that works, no implied meaing.
10:00:40 <peter1138> Actually they are 1-based. So 1 / 2.
10:00:52 <peter1138> "But why is White number 1!?"
10:01:15 <merni> light/dark should be fine?
10:02:08 <peter1138> Basesets are free to do their own thing.
10:02:19 <peter1138> Or sprite replacement sets. So it might not be correct.
10:02:24 <merni> in that case European/African is equally incorrect
10:02:51 <peter1138> Exactly, that's why I'm seriously suggesting Skin Colour: < 1 / 2 >
10:03:56 <merni> After all "Nose", "Chin" etc can hardly be meaningfully described by numbers either
10:21:57 <kuhnovic> "It's not the way I like it so it's a bug"
10:25:45 *** reldred has joined #openttd
10:29:56 <merni> What does "Advisors" refer to in "News / Advisors"?
10:30:11 <peter1138> It means you're playing Civilisation.
10:32:24 <peter1138> Just means news messages, but some of them aren't really "News", so they are advice, presumably given by an advisor.
10:32:42 <merni> and there are several advisors
10:33:02 <merni> and presumably the only way you would know about this little bit of roleplay is through this one setting title
10:33:32 <peter1138> Confirmed, OpenTTD is a roleplaying game.
10:37:50 <peter1138> > switch ((widget - WID_SCMF_EYECOLOUR_L) / 3)
10:37:59 <peter1138> Well THAT's not error-prone at all...
10:39:44 <peter1138> /me gets back to adding some missing auditing.,
10:40:57 <merni> hee hee, blaming english.txt on github "took too long to compute"
10:45:19 <merni> Apparently it was once called "News and messages" which makes a lot more sense to e
10:46:27 <reldred> Advisories instead of advisors? advisors implies simcity style 'you can't keep cutting back on education funding you will regret this'
10:50:35 *** __abigail has joined #openttd
10:50:35 <__abigail> reldred: You just triggered memories of SimCity 2000 on my primary school's iMacs back in the early 2010s
10:52:23 <reldred> God damnit you're making me feel old again.
10:53:00 <merni> Bah, I did the wrong kind of merge
10:55:52 <peter1138> `git rebase` is a completely different command from `git merge`, how do you confuse them?
10:57:18 <merni> peter1138: Well, I saw "merge conflicts" and was like "ah, I need to do a merge" 🤦
10:57:36 <merni> I don't know git conceptually at all
10:57:53 <merni> It's all "what incantations do I need for this task"
10:58:05 <ahyangyi> peter1138: Well, `git checkout` is a different command from `git checkout` as well...
11:47:29 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
11:48:48 <asasnat> can finally use GH at school because I brought the password manager database with me
11:49:13 <asasnat> although, maybe it'd be best not to do this on Win 8.1...
11:55:22 <peter1138> There are no faces, it's always him.
11:59:17 <alfagamma7> Worker's Party of Korea would be pleased
12:03:26 <kuhnovic> Rocket Man Transport Co.
12:14:43 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)
12:14:43 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
12:42:53 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
13:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> we should replace the face selector with a generative AI :p
13:07:20 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, that's more a "feature request" than a "bug"
13:11:09 <peter1138> Yes, original TTD use AI. The AI carefully picked a 32 bit number...
13:11:52 <peter1138> I remember there being Asian faces too, but I didn't search too hard for it. Doubt it's on bananas.
13:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> weren't they based on martian conversion or something?
13:44:44 <peter1138> I guess I could use references for the Join/Merge calls.
13:49:02 <kuhnovic> I looked at the path_cache.erase part in yapf_road and thought "there must be a more C++ algorithms way". But it quickly gets convoluted with reverse iterators and what not. C++ being C++...
13:49:54 <peter1138> That is the C++ way 🙂
13:50:20 <peter1138> The while loop to get it is... not really, but.
13:51:35 <peter1138> find_if should work actually.
13:51:54 <kuhnovic> It finds the first one, you need the last element right?
13:52:11 <kuhnovic> That can be done with reverse iterators, but then erase will start complaining...
13:53:30 <peter1138> No, we can just search for !Contains(...)
13:54:50 <peter1138> Ultimately it would be better to not insert them in the first place, but you might have an interesting path that loops in and out of the non cachable area.
13:55:23 <kuhnovic> !contains will make it O(n^2) right?
13:55:48 <peter1138> It does not change anything in that regard.
13:56:14 <kuhnovic> peter1138: If I learned anything from making the ship PF, it's that you can just wait until cases like that pop up. If you can imagine it, it will happen at some point.
13:56:21 <peter1138> `Looping while Contains is true` is the same as `Looping until Contains is false`
13:56:56 <peter1138> (Just with find_if the loop is hidden.)
13:57:27 <peter1138> Of course it find_if decides to do loop-unrolling (lol at chat yesterday) then it might be slower...
13:57:36 <kuhnovic> Oh wait, it's a tile area, so contains is O(1). Silly me. And the point you just made is also quite true hehe.
13:57:43 <peter1138> Dear C++, stop inlining every damned thing!
13:58:09 <kuhnovic> Too smart for it's own good 😛
13:58:56 <peter1138> The StackExchange (I think) conversation about that boiled down to "stop looking at disassembly, more instructions isn't worse code"
13:59:08 <kuhnovic> There's also a std::find_if_not ... seems a bit excessive
13:59:50 <peter1138> find_if vs find_if_not is a weird one.
14:00:18 <peter1138> But it makes sense if you pass a function instead of a lambda.
14:00:53 <peter1138> Wow, we only have one use of find_if_not.
14:01:10 <kuhnovic> Ah right, then you don't have to wrap it in another lambda that inverts the result of the first one
14:01:46 <kuhnovic> Poorly explained, but I think you know what I mean :p
14:02:05 <peter1138> And if you do use a lambda, `_not` is more characters than `!`.
14:02:41 <peter1138> Hmm, TileArea is 8 bytes.
14:02:49 <peter1138> Does that mean it makes more sense to pass it by value instead of reference?
14:03:05 <peter1138> Though it'll be inlined any way so probably no difference.
14:04:24 <peter1138> `if (st) {`, who let that in? 😄
14:32:03 *** matusguy has joined #openttd
15:11:20 <matusguy> for real!!! i dont even know what we're talking about i just like blaming people
15:11:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
15:21:21 <peter1138> You're basically a developer at this point then 🙂
15:34:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:40:03 <peter1138> Remember when you could set a theme for your desktop, and everything (mostly) would just use it?
15:40:36 <matusguy> i fixed a typo in the code 💪
15:54:06 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
16:00:21 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
16:02:07 <peter1138> Hmm, does not sound like developer activity after all.
16:03:03 <peter1138> Although it seems like we did get rid of all the `widht`, `heigth` and `lenght`.
16:06:09 <truebrain> Having the vscode extension "spellchecker" installed saves me many typos 😄
16:07:10 <peter1138> I could not work out why my code was not accepting "Pylons" as an enum value yesterday.
16:07:21 <peter1138> Turns out I'd accidentally defined it as "Plyons".
16:14:30 <peter1138> Back before GTK3 at least...
16:14:53 <merni> I can't remember a time ever like that on windows
16:15:14 <peter1138> On Windows you use to have colour themes.
16:15:21 <peter1138> They applied to everything.
16:15:47 <peter1138> They no longer exist, and then Windows 11 brought in the new stuff that doesn't match the old world. So they messed up too.
16:16:20 <peter1138> Can't remember when they removed all the theming from Windows though.
16:16:34 <merni> I remember being able to change the colour of title bars, and one horrendous dark mode for accessibility
17:13:34 <peter1138> `std::optional<std::string> x() { std::string y = "foo"; return y; }` ... should y be moved?
17:14:38 <Rubidium> I'd reckon that RVO kicks in
17:15:38 <Rubidium> and then doing the std::move might be doing more work
17:19:13 <Rubidium> but... that's when there's no optional constructor in the way, though won't `return { "foo" };` work?
17:22:08 <peter1138> But say it wasn't local 🙂
17:22:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:29:16 <peter1138> Not the right terminology. Oh well.
17:33:43 <peter1138> Hmm, `return "hello";` is more efficient than `std::string x = "hello"; return x;`
17:34:34 <peter1138> But `std::optional<std::string> x = "hello"; return x;` is the same as `return "hello";`, expected due to RVO.
17:39:43 <peter1138> I think in real usage it's just moving a copy from one place to another. Not much difference.
18:00:09 <locosage> why is it not allowed to just build rail under trains?
18:02:54 <peter1138> Because there's a train in the way.
18:02:58 <peter1138> I have a patch for it.
18:03:11 <peter1138> It would go under cheats, but as that's likely to be removed... under sandbox :p
18:14:43 <peter1138> I wonder where that patch went.
18:16:07 <locosage> why is removing mild inconvenience suddenly a cheat :p
18:33:45 <peter1138> Should the "AI/Game Script Debug" window owner be changed to match the selected AI/GS?
18:33:52 <peter1138> Makes the window caption change colour.
18:34:37 <talltyler> That would make sense to me
18:59:10 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd
18:59:58 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC ()
19:00:43 <peter1138> I thought I was going mad... toggling dark/light mode doesn't affect gnome shell...
19:01:25 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd
19:03:42 <alfagamma7> Who even uses light mode? What an eyesore
19:17:36 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
19:20:11 <peter1138> Sure, but it was the principle of it 🙂
19:20:29 <peter1138> (I was testing a site I develop in light vs dark mode and noticed the shell did not change...)
19:21:59 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC (Quit: virtualrandomnumber)
20:11:16 *** ckb_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
20:21:28 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
20:34:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:48:49 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
20:59:07 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
21:07:49 <peter1138> What is _tar_linklist, and how can I test it?
21:16:24 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:33:16 <peter1138> Heh, each NewGRF is opened 3 times on scanning. Ah well.
22:11:42 *** matusguy has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
22:19:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:44:28 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
23:16:17 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
continue to next day ⏵
