IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-03-22
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04:41:25 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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10:05:43 <xarick> gonna try reproduce 12347
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10:16:58 <peter1138> If it happens every time, that makes it much easier to confirm a fix.
10:24:35 <xarick> let's see what happens with oil rigs
10:44:30 <peter1138> Oilrigs do have a catchment radius for some reason.
10:44:52 <peter1138> That might be a bug 🙂
10:45:08 <peter1138> I believe the catchment is ignored.
10:48:05 <peter1138> That setting affects it.
10:48:08 <peter1138> I think it should not.
10:48:14 <peter1138> As it's not a company station.
10:50:28 <emperorjake> Someone's save probably relies on that
10:50:44 <xarick> that setting should be off by default
10:55:45 <peter1138> This is also wrong 😄
11:01:06 <locosage> Hm, I just had a thought that if base sprites can have fallbacks for when they're not defined half of the baseset can re-defined in a much logical way. Will make developing anything that replaces base sprites so much easier.
11:01:35 <locosage> rn it's almost like every damn house has its own sprite layout
11:02:59 <peter1138> So sprites should define what should happen if the sprite isn't defined? Might need to explain that one a bit better.
11:04:08 <peter1138> andythenorth: Computers eh?
11:04:51 <andythenorth> secure, fast, pick half of one
11:04:59 <xarick> stupid question, how do I exit CompanyMode?
11:05:07 <xarick> I wanna enter deity mode
11:05:15 <andythenorth> you assign it to a local, then clear the local?
11:05:19 <andythenorth> maybe, can't remember
11:05:38 <xarick> local x = null should work?
11:05:58 <peter1138> Wrap it in a { } block.
11:06:18 <locosage> peter1138: Yeah, simplest example would be houses that use concrete tile as a ground can have their own ground sprite added. If it's defined in action 5 it's used by the game if it's not defined it falls back to concrete (1420).
11:06:19 <peter1138> That being the entire premise of a scope.
11:08:12 <merni> andythenorth: The first paragraph says
11:08:12 <merni> > Instead, it can only be mitigated by building defenses into third-party cryptographic software that could drastically degrade M-series performance when executing cryptographic operations [...]
11:08:12 <merni> hopefully that means only crypto stuff is affected?
11:08:15 <peter1138> So you actually meant to say that the default tile layouts for houses/industries/objects should be changed to provide multiple sprites, in case the basset doesn't have a particular sprite available.
11:09:25 <locosage> well, that's one way to do it but implementing as a fallback sprite is probably simpler and more versatile
11:09:36 <peter1138> And a fallback sprite is what?
11:09:42 <locosage> with layouts you need to change houses separately, industries separately, etc
11:10:17 <peter1138> If sprite does not exist, there's nothing to say "actually, use this sprite instead"
11:10:23 <locosage> well, layouts will still need to be updated to use new sprite numbers ofc
11:10:28 <xarick> just found a bug by accident
11:10:48 <xarick> but not while under construction
11:10:53 <locosage> peter1138: not right now but that's what I'm suggesting to implement
11:11:15 <xarick> it should return false for GSIndustry.HasDock until it's actually built
11:15:05 <locosage> for example, another use for that would be farm fences, they don't really have any layouts to add alternatives to
11:16:20 <xarick> ```local industry_list;
11:16:20 <xarick> industry_list = GSIndustryList(GSIndustry.HasDock);
11:16:20 <xarick> while ((industry_list.IsEmpty() || !GSMap.IsValidTile(GSIndustry.GetDockLocation(industry_list.Begin()))) && GSController.Sleep(10));
11:19:35 <peter1138> Perhaps under-construction industries should just always be excluded and not considered a valid industry?
11:20:09 <peter1138> But that might affect new industry notifications.
11:20:40 <xarick> just check for GSMap.IsValidTile
11:20:49 <xarick> a bit annoying but live and learn
11:21:15 <peter1138> Change HasDock to return false if the industry is not constructed yet?
11:21:35 <peter1138> But if the flag changes, the script may never know.
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11:29:15 <xarick> serve neutral industries on vs off
11:29:32 <xarick> off: 5 tiles, on: 81 tiles
11:30:18 <peter1138> It should be 5 tiles all the time.
11:30:48 <xarick> that dock won't get cargo from the surroundings?
11:33:05 <peter1138> And another fix incoming...
11:35:25 <xarick> with off, iron ore won't go to the oilrig
11:35:38 <xarick> working as intended imo, I remember designing it like that
11:36:56 <peter1138> I didn't test production, but for acceptance it seems it will go from oilrig-station to sawmill.
11:37:25 <xarick> if it's on, then that's intended
11:38:45 <xarick> you're fixing it the other way around
11:39:26 <xarick> when it's on, treat it like a regular station
11:39:35 <xarick> when it's off, then it's exclusive to the oil rig
11:39:50 <peter1138> The setting is "Company stations can..."
11:39:57 <peter1138> Oilrig stations are neutral.
11:41:34 <xarick> company stations "around the oil rig" can serve neutral industries
11:43:31 <xarick> that screenshot now shows me the sawmill is not covered
11:44:08 <xarick> which station do you have coverage highlighted?
11:45:17 <xarick> it should cover the sawmill
11:45:32 <xarick> be treated like a regular station when it's on
11:47:32 <xarick> peter1138: this one here I'm unsure
11:48:20 <xarick> maybe you're right, but only for the setting being off
11:48:29 <xarick> not covering the industry
11:48:38 <peter1138> For that one, yes, only when it's off.
11:48:55 <peter1138> But it has issues, so I'll probably just forget it.
11:52:36 <xarick> it's how it behaves already, isn't it?
11:52:58 <peter1138> Yes, but the tiles are still included even though they do nothing.
11:53:14 <xarick> yes, that's worth fixing
11:53:59 <peter1138> I'm not convinced now. Like competitor station tiles are not excluded either.
12:32:12 <xarick> wow! It's been a long time since I've seen NoCAB beating everyone else
12:32:49 <xarick> AAAHogEx is rank 5 in profits, that's very unusual
12:33:19 <xarick> and my AI is 2nd, strange map I guess
12:40:07 <talltyler> _zephyris: Any ideas on a Steam image for my timekeeping blog post? A screenshot of the GUI feels…lazy 🙂
12:40:31 <talltyler> (Not asking you to make an image for me, although I wouldn’t object if you felt inspired :P)
12:43:14 <_zephyris> Hmm, very good question
12:46:57 <_glx_> Need a wallclock and a calendar in th image 😉
12:53:46 <kuhnovic> I guess we don't have a TARDIS in any of the newgrfs?
12:59:57 <locosage> there is probably some object somewhere 😅
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14:15:50 <peter1138> Where do people buy computers these days...
14:20:17 <emperorjake> It even makes the sound 🙂
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14:26:50 <gebik4544> _glx_: game balance
14:31:39 <LordAro> peter1138: largely dell.com
14:31:57 <LordAro> but personally? components from amazon/ebuyer
14:32:02 <LordAro> no idea about prebuilts
14:48:46 <truebrain> _glx_: And mail! That also consumes space! 😛
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15:00:01 <merni> LordAro: Or actual shops :)
16:00:36 <peter1138> There's no actual shops selling computers these days.
16:17:24 <_zephyris> talltyler: I haven't come up with any good ideas yet btw... Nothing better than just showing the setting near the date...
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16:32:22 <merni> peter1138: Well, there are here
16:32:41 <merni> I bought my laptop at one around two years god
16:44:39 <_zephyris> I guess something like this might be more interesting?
16:44:47 <_zephyris> Time is hard to show in a picture!
16:45:25 <locosage> just draw some broken clock xd
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17:07:25 <talltyler> Maybe a steam locomotive crossing a wooden bridge?
17:08:00 <talltyler> I.e. something which doesn’t last long at normal speed
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17:40:53 <rutoks> How generally reliable this docker image is?
17:45:01 <LordAro> rutoks: you'd have to ask the author
17:51:55 <merni> _zephyris: "1 minutes ago"... oops?
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18:55:03 <frosch123> i turned it into a "codefix" though. no need to put it into the changelog 🙂
18:56:06 <merni> And that is perhaps even less significant in that there is no grammar issue at all, just a consistency one
18:56:58 <Rubidium> hopefully someone complains in the PR for the changelog about that
18:57:24 <Rubidium> or even better, the one that makes the PR for the changelog notices it and removes it
19:11:38 <andythenorth> peter1138: do you need a gaming PC? 😛 I have experience
19:15:30 <merni> I wonder what proportion of peter's messages are just "Well"
19:15:50 <merni> Discord doesn't like me searching for such a short term and gives no results :(
19:18:42 <frosch123> merni: from ~15 years of IRC logs: 404 messages are "well", of those: 157 from andy, 41 from peter
19:19:03 <merni> Huh that's much less than I would have thought
19:19:29 <merni> Though some of peter's are "Well."
19:19:47 <frosch123> well, it's my local logs, so only when i am online
19:19:54 <Rubidium> I'm counting 322 -i "> well\.*$" from peter
19:19:54 <frosch123> which is probably 1/3 of andy :p
19:21:13 <frosch123> with `\t[Ww]ell\W*$` i get 524 matches, 196 from andy
19:21:49 <frosch123> (tab is the nickname/message separator here)
19:23:47 <Rubidium> xzgrep -i "peter.*> well\.*$" `find . -type f`|wc -l => 515
19:24:24 <frosch123> you probably have more logs 🙂
19:26:06 <Rubidium> but yeah, I might have more logs
19:26:11 <frosch123> pff, i have multiple hits for `<LordAro> well*`. how often can you misspell?
19:30:02 <peter1138> I probably have more "hmm" than "well" to be honest.
19:42:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you check 'hmm'?
19:46:11 <frosch123> "hmm", "hmm...", "hmm :)" or "hmm :("?
19:47:29 <LordAro> frosch123: wellllllllllllll
19:47:43 <frosch123> oh, crap....3824 hits, 2800 from andy, more than 70%
19:48:15 <frosch123> oh wait, 4th position is andythenorth_, so andother 62
19:48:28 <andythenorth> it's nice to know I've contributed to human culture
19:48:53 <LordAro> mostly with regards to lunch
19:50:56 <frosch123> 2834 "hmm", 26 "hmm " (with trailing space)", 4 "hmm :)", 1 "hmm?"
19:51:01 <peter1138> What should `SaveLoadCompatTable compat_description` look like for a SaveLoadHandler that never existed with the old unnamed fields?
19:51:12 <frosch123> but again, only when i was online, so probably 3x more
19:51:53 <frosch123> peter1138: check the water regions? they are new
19:52:21 <peter1138> That's a ChunkHandler with nothing in it.
19:56:41 <peter1138> Ah, `= {}` might just be it.
20:15:14 <xarick> `T* st = T::GetByTile(location.tile);`
20:19:29 <LordAro> cats and dogs, living together
20:20:06 <pickpacket> My Teahouse is based on the "temperate bank" and when I try to fund one in game I often get the "too close to existing industry" message. My Tea Factory is based on the "temperate factory" and never gets that; I can build it next to any other existing industry. Why is that?
20:20:14 <pickpacket> Can I affect that behaviour?
20:21:36 <peter1138> `static SaveLoadAddrProc * const proc = [](void *b, size_t extra) -> void * { return const_cast<void *>(static_cast<const void *>(reinterpret_cast<const char *>(std::addressof(static_cast<LinkGraphJob *>(b)->settings)) + extra)); };`
20:21:44 <peter1138> Sometimes I look at SaveLoad code and get scarerd.
20:21:59 <andythenorth> all the best code does that
20:26:50 <locosage> pickpacket: bank requires a min distance of 15 tiles from other bank
20:27:57 <peter1138> What exactly is a tea house. Is it like a coffee shop?
20:28:31 <pickpacket> locosage: ah! Can I change that? Or should I base it on another industry?
20:29:23 <locosage> by base you mean substitute?
20:30:26 <pickpacket> peter1138: depends on the culture, but it's a place where you drink tea. Sometimes you can also get snacks, biscuits, or even lighter meals there. So basically a café
20:30:46 <locosage> probably better to just always substitute industry 0 (coal mine)
20:31:13 <pickpacket> but if I call it café people might get the impression that *coffee* can be had there, and I can't stand for that
20:31:49 <pickpacket> locosage: hmm. Probably. I'll have to test that
20:32:28 <locosage> though I've not done that many industries so it would be nice to hear an opinion of someone who did in actual industry set
20:51:57 <pickpacket> locosage: I'll try it over the weekend and let you know how it works out for me :) My tea tree farm substitutes the farm, tea factory substitutes factory, and teahouse substitutes bank. I picked those because they felt like they're similar things (except the teahouse is not a bank, but just like the bank it can only be built in large towns). I
20:51:57 <pickpacket> don't think substituting coal mine instead would make any actual difference for any of them except the teahouse
20:52:26 <pickpacket> since that 15-tiles-from-bank behaviour doesn't appear to be changeable
20:54:06 <locosage> as I understand it substituting is not as much about similarity as what properties you want to inherit
20:54:21 <locosage> substituting farm makes sense as I suppose that also inherits fields
20:56:30 <locosage> initially substituting seems to be intended for cases where your grf is no longer available but that is pretty much irrelevant nowadays
21:01:51 <peter1138> Coal Mine will conflict with a Power Station, of course.
21:02:04 <andythenorth> wasn't substituting about being able to remove grfs from a game?
21:02:27 <andythenorth> I might be smoking crack with that memory
21:02:36 <peter1138> Just set the conflicting property to 255, 255, 255.
21:03:16 <peter1138> Hopefully there's a named value for IT_INVALID in NML.
21:03:54 <peter1138> If you're doing NFO it's property 0x16 which takes 3 bytes (3 conflicting industries.)
21:05:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: in the beginning newgrf were not stored in the savegame, so loading a savegame with missing newgrf was a regular case
21:06:13 <locosage> peter1138: oh, yeah, I didn't have any power plants for it to conflict with
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22:37:10 <peter1138> rubidium42viaGitHub: Fancy standardizing operator overloads? 😉
22:45:13 <Rubidium> you mean where the spaces belong (or not)?
22:49:12 <peter1138> Yeah... e.g. `StationRect& operator = (const Rect &src);`
22:55:00 <peter1138> And yes, I had also looked at this but decided to keep my PR short and to the point 🙂
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