IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-10-26
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00:01:54 <dwfreed> and there are things that the game doesn't even tell you, like manually tuning the valve timing
00:02:15 <goddess_ishtar> the game tells you nothing
00:02:26 <dwfreed> I may or may not have used a walkthrough someone wrote
00:02:53 <goddess_ishtar> a walkthrough (or encyclopedic car knowledge and a good grasp of Finnish) is absolutely mandatory
00:03:29 <dwfreed> my dad could probably talk me through the actual car assembly part
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00:07:48 <goddess_ishtar> you think you have enough busses there?
00:09:58 <dwfreed> peter1138: could be specific to USB or something; connected my bluetooth headphones and they showed up in qpwgraph right away
00:10:10 <peter1138> After restarting pipewire, hotplug is working again.
00:10:18 <peter1138> So presumably something was "in a state".
00:10:57 <dwfreed> pipewire starts before X here, so after I reboot I have to restart it or terminal bells won't work
00:11:58 <goddess_ishtar> Pipewire fixed everything, OpenTTD sounds *right*
00:13:35 <dwfreed> alright, damn you goddess_ishtar, I'm going to play MSC now
00:14:34 <goddess_ishtar> actually no, "Skydive" still sounds obnoxious, but that's been consistent across every synth so far
00:15:29 <goddess_ishtar> it's the exact same as before
00:26:29 <peter1138> So we're both cursed...
00:27:41 <goddess_ishtar> I've gotten the *best* results with extmidi pointing to timidity and the Fatboy soundfont but it still sounds kinda bad
00:28:01 <goddess_ishtar> like there's weird twanginess sometimes and some instruments don't line up
00:28:45 <goddess_ishtar> fluidsynth with the same font, for some reason, just doesn't know what a volume control is - even cranked up it's okay quiet
00:30:32 <goddess_ishtar> does the bridge handle edits? I typed in "s/okay/pretty" but then I remembered Discord intercepts that
00:31:29 <goddess_ishtar> I'll take "occasionally weird sounds" over "the background track is so loud the music is literally unlistenable' any day though
00:31:43 <goddess_ishtar> which is what OpenTTD default is
00:44:52 <peter1138> No, edits are eaten.
01:49:05 <goddess_ishtar> I forgot why extmidi is awful
01:49:15 <goddess_ishtar> it doesn't let you adjust the audio in-game
01:49:50 <goddess_ishtar> which includes the volume switches deciding they are merely suggestions
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04:35:11 <goddess_ishtar> when I removed the extra copy of nmlc, it took the man pages with it
07:35:37 <jfs> goddess_ishtar: Are you talking about OpenMSX? My thoughts are that the majority of the tracks are mediocre to poor, especially in the technical department. They might sound okay on the specific synth setup they were composed on.
07:37:51 <dwfreed> goddess_ishtar: I accidentally closed MSC after putting several hours into it without having saved... damn lack of autosaves or anything really useful...
07:56:01 <goddess_ishtar> jfs: I don't have the ttd sounds, so yes
07:56:53 <goddess_ishtar> I like the OpenMSX songs, but mostly because I have them all memorized
07:57:11 <goddess_ishtar> it's been hell to get them to sound decent though
07:57:57 <goddess_ishtar> dwfreed: yeah, esoteric is one thing, but it feels downright user-hostile sometimes
07:58:18 <goddess_ishtar> MSC could really do with some QoL
07:58:27 <dwfreed> it's apparently got a new developer
07:58:36 <dwfreed> though they haven't released anything in a year
07:59:09 <dwfreed> it definitely feels somewhat more polished from the last time I played many years ago
07:59:46 <dwfreed> Also I think some aspects of the storyline have been changed; I don't remember having to go to fleetari's for some parts
08:00:17 <goddess_ishtar> It used to just be the timing belt you picked up from the general store, right?
08:00:46 <goddess_ishtar> and various cosmetics and performance parts you could get from the mail-order catalogue
08:01:39 <dwfreed> now you have to go to fleetari's and buy a head gasket, alternator, and starter
08:01:44 <goddess_ishtar> god, getting the empty car shell into the garage was always so tricky
08:01:57 <dwfreed> build the car to the wheels outside
08:02:23 <dwfreed> can jack up the front end to get to the back bolts on the subframe
08:02:53 <dwfreed> (but also you probably don't even need to do that if you can figure out where those bolts are)
08:06:56 <dwfreed> oh, and you have to steal the wheels from the farmhouse now
08:16:41 <goddess_ishtar> why did they decide the game needed to be *more* annoying
08:16:55 <goddess_ishtar> I've heard that you don't even start with the van anymore
08:17:34 <goddess_ishtar> and just like real life, the pull cords for the two-stroke engines never work
08:18:56 <dwfreed> now that you mention it, I thought I was going nuts
08:19:20 <dwfreed> the van doesn't show up at your uncle's house until you've progressed the build a bit
08:20:43 <dwfreed> changed in september 2019
08:21:10 <dwfreed> because the date I read was dd.mm.yyyy
08:23:46 <dwfreed> I think the game would be significantly better while still attaining the original vision if there was a difficulty level setting
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11:44:51 <peter1138> warning: not deleting branch 'modal-popup-consistency' that is not yet merged to 'refs/remotes/origin/modal-popup-consistency', even though it is merged to HEAD.
11:44:54 <peter1138> error: The branch 'modal-popup-consistency' is not fully merged.
11:45:35 <peter1138> Ah, I forgot to git fetch -p, silly me.
11:47:37 <peter1138> Bread in bread maker is smelling nice.
11:52:14 <peter1138> Standard widget-disabling looks a bit funky for non-button widgets, but otherwise works.
11:53:59 <_glx_> Can't the disabled area also fully include the slider itself ?
11:54:43 <peter1138> The standard disabled shading excludes button bevels, so it does the same here.
11:55:12 <peter1138> Easy to fix I think :)
11:56:03 <_glx_> Yeah for buttons it's fine but it just looks weird in the slider case
11:56:48 <_glx_> Hmm or don't draw the slider if disabled
11:57:14 <_glx_> You don't have music, no need to show volume
11:57:24 <peter1138> "Why is there no volume control?"
11:57:39 <peter1138> This is for extmidi, where there is music, but you can't change the volume.
11:58:16 <_glx_> It's disabled anyway, so control or not it's the same result
11:58:55 <_glx_> But I mean the sliding button, not the full slider widget
12:05:21 <peter1138> Fresh bread complete. Am I going to let it cool?
12:16:54 <peter1138> Okay, maybe a little bit so I can spread butter... :D
12:31:39 <peter1138> Ah, container widgets can't have an index and can't be disabled. So my idea of disabling both the label and the slider is not possible.
12:36:50 <LordAro> peter1138: as long as it's obvious why it's disabled
12:38:47 <peter1138> Nope. That would need an additional label.
12:39:24 <LordAro> in which case i can already see the "i can't change audio volume" bug reports coming in
12:39:53 <peter1138> Versus the existing "Changing the music video does nothing" reports?
12:40:01 <peter1138> ... video? volume...
12:40:46 <peter1138> "Current music driver cannot change volume"
12:40:55 <peter1138> I'm not convinced about the word 'driver' here.
13:04:58 <peter1138> And no iffy disabled widget.
13:05:07 <peter1138> Although there's still the jukebox window.
13:06:21 <talltyler> The jukebox also lets you change sound effects, though, so there is some purpose to it still
13:06:35 <peter1138> There's two volume controls.
13:06:58 <peter1138> Currently, still with the disbled-ness.
13:07:14 <LordAro> i'd probably just blank it out entirely
13:12:34 <talltyler> Right, also you can still choose the tune
13:13:02 <talltyler> Were you saying “now the jukebox is useless” or “I still have to change the jukebox?”
13:13:14 <talltyler> I guess I interpreted it as the former
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15:04:01 <pickpacket> In the latest version of Tea Tea Deluxe I changed the loading speed of the carriages to 7 (default is 5) and jeebuz crabst... The difference is *a lot* bigger than I expected
15:12:33 <wensimehrp> peter1138[d]: I guess the bot cannot send files form irc
15:16:11 <FLHerne> pickpacket: it should knock just under a third off the loading time?
15:26:14 <peter1138> wensimehrp, you can't upload images etc to IRC.
15:27:05 <jfs> tbh the proper thing the better midi support on linux etc would be to have a jack midi output driver, and have the volume control happen the same way win32 handles it (by scaling the individual channel volumes)
15:29:34 <peter1138> jfs, that is my next step, however this is still useful and relatively trivial for extmidi.
15:30:56 <peter1138> PipeWire MIDI might be a better fit at this stage though, it's more universal than jackd ever was.
15:31:25 <peter1138> Although ALSA MIDI is also a useful option.
15:43:31 <pickpacket> FLHerne: would loading speed 10 mean instant loading/offloading then?
15:47:38 <FLHerne> it's n units of cargo every 40 ticks (for trains)
15:48:15 <FLHerne> unless NML normalizes it between vehicle types, which would be a good idea but I don't think happens
15:54:14 <pickpacket> I don't think it does either. But I feel like 7 units every 40 ticks vs 5 units every 40 ticks shouldn't be a huge difference... The carriages take 25 units. I guess default loading would fill it in 200 ticks and 7 units would fill it in... 160? (7+7+7+4)
15:55:44 <pickpacket> loading speed 6 would then be (6+6+6+6+1), i.e. also 200 ticks. Basically There's no difference between 5 and 6 and a big difference between 6 and 7 🤪
16:16:36 <FLHerne> I hadn't really considered the rounding-up effect with small vehicle capacities
16:28:31 <peter1138> Is it really 40 ticks? That's over a day...
16:28:40 <peter1138> Er, over half a day.
16:36:33 <FLHerne> it seems right to me, train unloading steps are noticeably slow
16:42:42 <peter1138> Yeah, it's kinda weird.
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18:38:33 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:11:34 <bungus> peter1138: this is absolutely insane, especially coming from Apple
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20:39:11 <ahyangyi> Fortunately my MBP is too old to be affected 😛
20:39:29 <ahyangyi> while still being able to serve BaNaNaS
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21:28:22 <peter1138> _zephyris, I've just seen what you've done with the sprite fonts at 2x zoom. Nice!
21:29:13 <_zephyris> peter1138: Thanks! It's a bit rough round the edges, but getting there...
21:29:16 <peter1138> I had a scaler that automatically applied a similar effect to sprites when scaling up, but there are too many edge cases to make it look nicely.
21:30:28 <peter1138> Hmm, we need to support .md in base graphics readme.
21:30:45 <_zephyris> peter1138: Yeah, I played a bit with various scaling algorithms, then gave up and spend an evening pushing pixels by hand
21:31:25 <peter1138> _zephyris, I also applied various things to the viewport sprites. It's an interesting effect, but not workable as it wreaks havoc with the outline of ground sprites.
21:32:02 <truebrain> ahyangyi: wait, two people are serving BaNaNaS? We talked about that .. that crashes the Internet! ffs ...
21:32:04 <peter1138> Hmm, "=" is showing as a "?" for me.
21:34:11 <_zephyris> peter1138: In OpenGFX2? Yeah, my fault, fixed but not yet in a build.
21:35:44 <peter1138> Okay, renaming the readme.txt to readme.md kinda works.
21:36:03 <peter1138> Is it readme.txt due to bananas or just 'misnamed'?
21:36:29 <_zephyris> peter1138: Anything super clever? Or more like HQ2X etc? I tried training my own scaling algorithm, but my training data was too sparse...
21:37:17 <peter1138> I had one that was specifically designed for isometric, but unfortunately I didn't save a URL, nor the name of it, so have no idea what it was called.
21:37:24 <peter1138> And it didn't work too well.
21:43:02 <peter1138> I have a branch on github for it, but it's a bit out of date.
21:43:18 <peter1138> MMPX is one I also tried.
21:44:18 <peter1138> But I think that's designed more for low-colour sprites.
21:45:22 <peter1138> I even put in a hotkey to switch scalers on the fly :D
21:49:14 <_zephyris> A half-decent start point for scaling, but I'd spend a long time pixel tweaking. And, like you say, suited for low-colour number sprites
21:50:00 <_zephyris> I like the idea of an in OpenTTD extra 2x/4x scale using pixel doubling or a scaling algorithm 😀
21:52:02 <peter1138> in OpenTTD extra 2x/4x scale using pixel doubling is what we have...
21:52:34 <peter1138> (Just you are able to provide prescaledd sprites too, and we call the largest version 1x :D)
21:54:39 <peter1138> I assume the links don't work because it's not treated as trusted document.
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22:00:17 <bungus> do the game menus even have hyperlink support?
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22:01:28 <peter1138> Sure... this is forced to trusted (and using a non-monospace font, because that doesn't really gain anything.)
22:02:29 <bungus> see i never even thought those were hyperlinks, i thought it was just different font colors for the sake of looking nice
22:03:04 <bungus> like you can do with the newgrf descriptions with {RED} {YELLOW} etc
22:03:14 <_pruple> if bubious isn't a word, it should be.
22:03:41 <peter1138> What would it mean?
22:03:59 <bungus> being dubious but doing a bad job at it
22:04:49 <peter1138> Green is an internal link in the same file, tan is a link to a local file, and light blue is an external link.
22:05:01 <peter1138> And 'gold' is just a title :)
22:05:10 <_pruple> both dubious and bulbous?
22:05:16 <bungus> what formatting is it? markdown?
22:05:28 <peter1138> Yes, simplified markdown parsing.
22:06:01 <_pruple> that's no way to talk about andy
22:06:07 <peter1138> Bulbous also tapered?
22:07:48 <_pruple> I am with understanding
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