IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-10-07
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11:54:58 <belajalilija> Baby dont hurt me
11:55:59 <andythenorth> does anyone use objects?
11:58:42 <ahyangyi> Are objects ever objectionable?
12:04:19 <peter1138> Although I did have a sausage roll at the cafe stop.
12:08:58 <andythenorth> I had an egg custard thing at bouldering
12:10:05 <kamnet> I've not yet had breakfast. But is it breakfast when I've been awake for 12 hours?
12:10:53 <alfagamma7> belajalilija: *"What is love" plays in background*
12:12:39 <andythenorth> lot of objects going in CHIPS to deal with corner slopes 😛
12:13:06 <andythenorth> goes it build non-track station tiles on corner slopers?
12:13:15 <talltyler> I use objects a lot. Those look nice. 🙂
12:13:53 <andythenorth> kind of wondering why station grf needs objects
12:14:10 <andythenorth> is there any other case beside corner slopers?
12:14:25 <peter1138> kamnet, if you haven't broken your fast... then yes.
12:14:43 <peter1138> Station GRFs do not need objects.
12:15:41 <andythenorth> it's the only way to build stations on corner slopers
12:15:49 <andythenorth> I can't see any other reason
12:16:29 <andythenorth> I guess sometimes you might want to fill the gap between 2 stations
12:19:10 <_glx_> so this is because not using extended action1 ?
12:19:51 <andythenorth> yes, I have to specify different spritesets for different spritelayouts
12:19:58 <andythenorth> I should have automated that though, it's not hard
12:20:09 <andythenorth> the manual way is silly
12:20:26 <_glx_> if you want to try #309 it should not be needed at all
12:20:29 <andythenorth> I automated it for CHIPS now
12:21:43 <_glx_> btw you could have use [] for padding
12:23:03 <emperorjake> why not allow non-track tiles on corner slopes?
12:23:47 <andythenorth> _glx_: do I need to now use `const` for constants?
12:24:07 <andythenorth> `sprite: GROUNDSPRITE_ROAD_X` is unrecognised identifier
12:24:21 <andythenorth> I'll test master though
12:24:35 <_glx_> oh maybe I forgot to rebase
12:24:46 <andythenorth> eh it's not ideal that I run a locally patched nmlc most of the time
12:24:52 <andythenorth> so I don't pull master often
12:25:08 <andythenorth> but the only way to get rid of the stupid palette check is my local patch
12:25:21 <andythenorth> palette check is insanely slow and totally redundant
12:25:32 <kamnet> andythenorth: Because it frees up a NewGRF slot and will likely eliminate the need to use at least two duplicate Objects sets.
12:25:45 <_glx_> I have too many nml branches
12:26:19 <andythenorth> kamnet: expand on this? 🙂 It sounds like an implementation reason, not a gameplay reason? 🙂
12:29:06 <kamnet> The objects are already loaded and the player can learn how to make more interesting and useful stations. And if they don't ever open up objects, having it there isn't doing them any harm or getting in their way. It's just simpler on a player, really.
12:29:12 <_glx_> 7 open PRs, some may conflict with each other
12:30:05 <andythenorth> kamnet: is there a reason to build station objects instead of just stations?
12:30:06 <kamnet> I see absolutely no downside from the player's perspective to having a station set also generate objects.
12:30:24 <_glx_> objects don't extend station catchement
12:30:37 <andythenorth> oh do some servers limit station size?
12:31:34 <_glx_> I can see how non track station tiles not showing any cargo could be replaced with objects
12:32:19 <andythenorth> andythenorth: I need to stop seeing that the gold text colour doesn't match the orange +/- disclosure widgets 😛
12:33:04 <kamnet> My eyesight it shot, so it doesn't much matter to me 😛
12:33:23 <andythenorth> peter1138: has various patches that make them look better
12:33:31 <andythenorth> "patch for that"
12:33:51 <andythenorth> kamnet: your story prompted me to get an eye test recently
12:35:24 <kamnet> You're welcome! Latest result of recovery, left eye is between 20/60 and 20/30 vision and should keep improving towards 20/30.
12:38:22 <andythenorth> ok so the object question
12:38:34 <andythenorth> it's trivial to generate the objects in the station grf
12:38:44 <andythenorth> but I have to organise them somehow into classes
12:39:10 <andythenorth> CHIPS 3 is organised by ground tile type
12:39:12 <talltyler> Or we could just patch the game to allow non-track station tiles on corners
12:39:52 <talltyler> Just to keep all options in mind, not saying it’s the best one 🙂
12:40:08 <andythenorth> open field of options
12:40:21 <andythenorth> I don't know what I'd call the object classes
12:40:37 <andythenorth> They're not stations eh
12:40:47 <andythenorth> But they're intended for use at stations
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12:41:45 <brickblock19280> Chips a g c and d
12:42:26 <_glx_> talltyler: non-track stations have hidden track, and default station as fallback if grf is not present
12:44:14 <peter1138> Patch the game to allow track station tiles on slopes. Then non-track station tiles just work too.
12:51:24 <truebrain> so basically he is reporting a vcpkg issue, right _glx_ ?
12:59:51 <andythenorth> peter1138: disconnecting trains though?
13:00:13 <andythenorth> sloped stations? 😛
13:03:06 <truebrain> if only we had infinite resources to fix all issues 😄
13:06:20 <truebrain> that said, it is a bit annoying vcpkg breaks this easily for our base image .. they do run CI on some linux targets, but for some reason ours is a bit more special 😄
13:24:33 <truebrain> Python3 dragging in X11 dependencies .. that is just so weird 😛
13:24:41 <truebrain> I miss the days software did one thing, and one thing only 😄
13:25:51 <_glx_> just started a master release on my fork (guess you did the same)
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13:26:24 <michi_cc[d]> Don't worry, just wait a bit more and then the only software you need anyway is a copy of Electron 😛
13:28:05 <truebrain> _glx_: I did not; I just looked at the logs he provided
13:29:41 <andythenorth> isn't everything just a WASM app in future?
13:29:44 <andythenorth> and your OS is chrome?
13:33:57 <merni> truebrain: is it because of tkinter?
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13:57:52 <peter1138[d]> Lol, just the manuals disc...
14:01:39 <andythenorth> Did CD ROMs have different speed compatabilities?
14:01:54 <andythenorth> I remember something about 4x vs 8x
14:03:08 <michi_cc[d]> I can't remember seeing anything like that on actual CD-ROMs. On drives of course, and for the write speed of CD-Rs, too.
14:04:36 <belajalilija> yeah i think it was the write speed
14:08:22 <andythenorth> I owned one CD-RW disc also, they were like gold dust
14:08:50 <andythenorth> External hard drives were less trouble
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14:43:15 <_glx_> nice I still have access to logs from a 13.4 test release (3 months old)
14:48:21 <truebrain> Before you fall in an endless pit, be mindful 13.4 might not build anymore at all
14:48:37 <alfagamma7> michi_cc[d]: Oh dear
14:48:55 <truebrain> Even with cache, that is 🙂
14:49:46 <_glx_> yeah but master fails, while my 13.4 test built fine in july
14:50:27 <truebrain> I fixed at least 2 upstream vcpkg issues in the last few months 😛
14:50:47 <_glx_> also 13.X doesn't have the same exact deps as master
14:51:20 <truebrain> Just be careful not to spend a lot of time on 13.x. we won't have another release anymore 😉
14:51:41 <_glx_> not my intention, I was just comparing logs
15:01:40 <_glx_> and updated gist keeping only the important part (vcpkg installation plans)
15:02:43 <_glx_> of course it won't help 🙂
15:04:28 <andythenorth> anyone who can review nml 309? 🙂
15:04:38 <andythenorth> otherwise I have to stack patches on top of that branch 😛
15:05:08 <_glx_> well 309 and the 6 other ones 😉
15:05:56 <_glx_> we don't have enough nml devs
15:14:03 <peter1138[d]> Has anyone rewritten it in c++ or rust yet?
15:16:33 <andythenorth> Truebrain wrote the industry part in rust
15:18:44 <peter1138> Urgh, tired legs :/
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15:48:29 <_glx_> of course doing `./vcpkg install dbus` in a fresh vcpkg clone inside wsl works fine
16:08:04 <peter1138> Hmm, am I riding tomorrow...
16:12:00 <andythenorth> how should I organise these cranes as objects?
16:12:29 <andythenorth> the stations are 2 tiles, and each tile has two orientations, ne_sw and nw_se
16:13:00 <andythenorth> 1 object 4 view? 4 objects? 2 objects, 2 views each?
16:13:32 <andythenorth> I don't use object views in FIRS objects, they make it hard to find things
16:16:01 <talltyler> Views only for rotations, IMO
16:16:17 <talltyler> Using them for styles are confusing
16:16:39 <talltyler> I don’t hate crane rails with/without crane though
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16:21:38 <andythenorth> FIRS just does this for rotations, it's the most obvious
16:22:23 <andythenorth> but the number of objects in each class is short
16:26:14 <andythenorth> meh station objects are dull 🙂
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16:40:56 <peter1138> Yes, rotations should be done as views, and views should only be rotation.s
16:42:35 <andythenorth> consistent with stations I guess
16:42:51 <andythenorth> it's quite hard to understand the other orientation exists, but eh
16:50:19 <LordAro> peter1138: i'm spending the evening at a whisky festival, so... probably not
16:52:07 <peter1138> I have some whisky, I could have a private festival.
16:54:12 <peter1138> My Dad's doing a New Forest ride tomorrow, Gridiron 100km. I only found out today, but
16:54:25 <peter1138> Bit annoyed as it would've been nice to do it with him.
17:04:33 <andythenorth> found the 'paste from clipboard history' key combo in my text editor
17:04:36 <andythenorth> this is life changing
17:05:39 <_glx_> ah yes the nice windows+V 🙂
17:07:15 <andythenorth> those objects probably shouldn't exist, but eh
17:24:46 <peter1138> `[bugprone-easily-swappable-parameters]` is a kinda right but also kinda annoying to report :)
17:24:52 <andythenorth> my road stop efforts are lacking
17:25:18 <peter1138> Is it common to build truck loading bays under silos?
17:26:35 <_glx_> I saw some in farming videos
17:26:52 <andythenorth> dunno, I don't have many truck stop ideas yet
17:27:00 <andythenorth> just trying out the feature
17:27:24 <andythenorth> wonder how it looks with large dump trucks?
17:29:29 <andythenorth> better than I expected
17:30:22 <andythenorth> goes it bay version?
17:30:37 <andythenorth> didn't someone want bay RV stops removed?
17:31:12 <talltyler> The proverbial “someone”
17:32:02 <talltyler> You might check out whoever made road stops for JGRPP (Fridamon?), as they have a lot of options
17:32:16 <talltyler> I think that grf is JGRPP only for now, though
17:34:19 <andythenorth> oh there are lots 🙂
17:34:34 <andythenorth> some CHIPS ones already
17:35:50 <andythenorth> also bare ground
17:36:00 <andythenorth> so trucks could just drive 'into' industry
17:36:10 <andythenorth> hard to use though, no indication of alignment
17:38:29 <andythenorth> ok well that's lots of ideas
17:38:37 <andythenorth> not sure what I'll include though
17:38:52 <talltyler> Ground tile with stripes to mark the road edges could be nice
17:39:31 <talltyler> There’s a road set that had FIRS Concrete roads like that, not sure which grf
17:40:58 <andythenorth> tanker loading would be one obvious type
17:42:02 <talltyler> CHIPS could use that for trains too, I use the ISR one all the time
17:42:28 <peter1138> Hmm, does NRVO mean I can just return a std::vector and not worry much?
17:43:56 <andythenorth> recent build of CHIPS if anyone wants to try
17:44:17 <peter1138> Okay, works for me :D
17:52:07 <peter1138> If "original_dos" and "original_windows" and "OpenMSX" still play with my changes to music.cpp and midifile.cpp, then it's good, right? :D
17:55:28 <peter1138> Hmm, not sure about scope though.
18:04:20 <peter1138> Doesn't vcpkg sort out those dependencies?
18:08:40 <peter1138> Good ol' dependency hell.
18:22:20 <michi_cc[d]> Well, the package glx added isn't in vcpkg but in the underlying linux.
18:37:52 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:49:37 <_glx_> Main issue is we build releases on a very old linux
19:38:08 <peter1138> Is there a way to tell CMake that I don't want it to use SDL2, even though it's installed?
19:42:42 <_glx_> we don't have options for that, but you can tell openttd to not use sdl2 with `-v`
19:43:01 <peter1138> I want to use SDL1.
19:43:15 <_glx_> ah yeah that's a problem
19:43:38 <peter1138> With SDL 2 running in a debugger, it captures the mouse and window focus while paused, so I can't actually debug.
19:43:42 <peter1138> With SDL 1, that works fine.
19:45:10 <_glx_> so -DCMAKE_DISABLE_FIND_PACKAGE_SDL2=TRUE
19:46:08 <_glx_> of course you need to clear the cache too
19:47:36 <peter1138> I had removed SDL2-dev, but installing Fluidsynth-dev reinstalls it.
20:03:52 <peter1138> SmallArray is anything but.
20:14:00 <andythenorth> I'm kind of used to traditional road stops, these new fancy ones will take time to get used to 😛
20:21:16 <talltyler> Yes, it's taken me a while also
20:55:16 <truebrain> I remain pleasently surprised how quickly vcpkg fixes issues they introduced .. yet annoyed they don't have a CI target that detects these 😄
20:55:24 <truebrain> their linux target just has too many shit pre-installed 😛
20:57:09 <truebrain> _glx_: btw, what I noticed last time, not sure if it is still the case: I think we don't update our vcpkg package, so it is using the version of what-ever was installed the first time the cache was created
20:58:27 <_glx_> yeah I'm not sure if vcpkg auto updates when "reinstalling"
20:58:53 <truebrain> the upside is that the builds are more stable this way; the downside some dependencies might be a bit old by now
21:02:13 <_glx_> indeed I have zlib 1.2.13 installed and 1.3 is available and "zlib:x64-windows-static is already installed" when doing "vcpkg install zlib:x64-windows-static"
21:03:36 <truebrain> yeah, I believe there is a `reinstall -U` or something?
21:12:13 <peter1138> Is touching YAPF-related code taboo?
21:12:45 <_glx_> if you know what you're doing it's fine
21:13:04 <truebrain> please don't make that a requirement .. nothing will get done anymore! 😛
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21:24:35 <peter1138> > 6 files changed, 38 insertions(+), 203 deletions(-)
21:24:41 <peter1138> That much in YAPF-only code is scary ;)
21:24:53 <_glx_> doing some test, but "vcpkg x-set-installed" my be an option (not needed for builds using default github images, as the vcpkg versions are fixed in them)
21:30:41 <truebrain> what does x-set-installed do?
21:34:04 <_glx_> it sets the installed list to the passed list using latest version, but that won't work for us as we use 2 vcpkg install commands (python3 then all others)
21:42:54 <_glx_> oh but we can also do a "vcpkg upgrade" after the "vcpkg install"
21:48:40 <peter1138> error: static_cast from '__gnu_cxx::__alloc_traits<std::allocator<unsigned char>, unsigned char>::value_type *' (aka 'unsigned char *') to 'char *' is not allowed
21:51:34 <peter1138> C-style cast is not not allowed, heh.
21:54:16 * andythenorth had lots of station ideas, but not enough sleep :P
22:00:11 <andythenorth> stations don't have `relative_pos`? The correct aproach is to use something like `platform_position_from_start` with `PLATFORM_SAME_SECTION` or similar?
22:00:51 <andythenorth> I want fewer cranes (replacing every other one with empty crane track)
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22:21:49 <peter1138> Ah, needs reinterpret_cast instead of static_cast. Hmm
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22:50:20 <_glx_> andythenorth: use some modulo
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