IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-10-01
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05:52:52 <andythenorth> PCs are cheap eh
06:24:50 <andythenorth> cheaper than bread
06:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't really answer the question
06:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure about mainboards... they seem excessively expensive and i have no idea which features are actually needed
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06:41:19 <andythenorth> how do I stop cargo showing when there's none waiting?
06:41:50 <andythenorth> I guess I check the cargo waiting amount in prepare_layout
06:41:59 <andythenorth> then hide the sprite if it's 0
06:42:32 <andythenorth> or can I use `default` and just give it a sprite which is all blue
06:44:20 <andythenorth> there's `no_cargo` in the chips example nml
06:51:13 <andythenorth> `spriteset_cargo_NULL` seems to work here
06:52:14 <ahyangyi> I want to make station set too 😢
06:56:01 <alfagamma7> Guess I need to get my hands on ISR codebase
06:59:22 <andythenorth> I wonder how reusable CHIPs will be
07:01:40 <andythenorth> probably be totally different by Christmas
07:02:12 <andythenorth> I guess I should make CHIPS do roadstops next
07:11:42 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: grf-py probably
07:33:01 <andythenorth> compared to CHIPS 2:
07:33:01 <andythenorth> - split up the station classes to match towns and FIRS ground
07:33:01 <andythenorth> - not all the cargo sprites from CHIPS 2 are copied over yet
07:33:28 <andythenorth> - some station name strings don't work
07:33:46 <andythenorth> - some CHIPS 2 tiles aren't copied yet
08:02:46 <pickpacket> Is it possible to have animations in an HQ NewGRF?
08:09:18 <andythenorth> making station show cargo by quality of service 😛
08:09:32 <andythenorth> is not something I have figured out yet
08:09:53 <andythenorth> how would you choose which cargo for the tile?
08:10:04 <andythenorth> unless every cargo has a specific station?
08:12:58 <_pruple> hqs are really just a sprite replacement, can't do anything fancy with them at all
08:13:09 <_pruple> but it's a new feature opportunity if someone's keen 😉
08:22:28 <ahyangyi> Cargo icons are 10x10
08:22:35 <ahyangyi> without extra zoom possibilities?
08:28:41 <andythenorth> they are called no? InitializeAnimatedTiles for example?
08:28:59 <andythenorth> is called from InitializeGame
08:30:20 <merni> `InitializeAnimatedTiles` isn't one of those
08:31:13 <andythenorth> are they just placeholder?
08:36:04 <ahyangyi> They are forward declarations, not definitions
08:37:16 <merni> Yes, but the functions themselves are defined in various files but aren't used anywhere
08:37:43 <ahyangyi> I'm pretty sure `InitializeAnimatedTiles` is called in `InitializeGame`
08:38:04 <merni> Again, `InitializeAnimatedTiles` isn't one of those I have highlighted :)
08:39:13 <merni> all of them are claled in initializegame
09:46:45 <brickblock19280> ahyangyi: You might be able to change it and you can probably do extra zoom with alternative sprites
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10:39:01 <Josevlc44> Alguien habla español?
10:40:03 <Josevlc44> No puedo jugar a openttd online en mi tab
10:41:50 <Josevlc44> I cant play openttd online With my tab, somebody helpme ???
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10:46:05 <andythenorth> is it sandwich time?
10:53:33 <merni> _glx_: could someone do this please
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11:26:56 <garlic_bread42> Currently trying to upload to Bananas with a strange behavior. Once the GRF-upload is hitting 100% it immediately starts again to upload from 0%. What am i doing wrong? File too big?
12:08:52 <georgevb> It looks like the problem is similar. It looks only one level up, but not to the top of the list.
12:19:18 <frosch123> garlic_bread42: did you upload a zip or something? there was an error logged about not being able to uncompress a file
12:19:49 <truebrain> frosch123: read the report careful .. that was on staging 😄
12:19:56 <garlic_bread42> frosch123: No, its Just a regular .grf
12:20:26 <frosch123> ok, sorry, just tb messing with me 🙂
12:21:36 <andythenorth> station extra info text cb? 🙂
12:21:37 <garlic_bread42> Anything i could try on my side except login/logoff and reboot?
12:23:07 <truebrain> frosch123: not deliberately, sorry 😛 Was testing some things for the version bumps .. clearly I found a bug (unrelated to the version bumps) 😄
13:29:14 <michi_cc[d]> The improved crashlog is a lot nice when you manage to crash regression. Now I can actually see the backtrace instead of some hidden dialog box that just causes no output at all. No idea if this was intentional, but it is really nice one way or the other ❤️
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14:06:53 <merni> georgevb: At first glance, seems to be exactly the same issue
14:07:54 <peter1138> Yeah that code is duplicated between build vehicle and autoreplace windows.
14:08:29 <merni> So if we get a windows build of pr 11342 and my fix works for that, I will add the fix for autoreplace to the same pr
14:10:00 <peter1138> andythenorth, did you have a NewGRF that tried to loop variants?
14:11:57 <merni> georgevb: Visual Studio still confuses me but I have tried "release build". Please see if this works, if not someone else will just have to compile it for windows
14:12:27 <peter1138> Although doesn't matter, I can simulate it.
14:30:16 <georgevb> Unfortunately no. The error is different, but it still can't start
14:30:25 <merni> t needs to be in your openttd folder
14:31:51 <peter1138> You need to include all the extra files, not just the .exe.
14:32:30 <merni> well, discord does not let me attach a 95 mb zip
14:33:14 <peter1138> Easier to take the problem GRF, make some screenshots, and get george to check :D
14:34:18 <peter1138> ^ George, does that look right? :D
14:34:24 <merni> If you want me to check some other starting date than 1970, tell me
14:35:38 <peter1138> Also, can you do the same fix in autoreplace_gui.cpp? Just search for `variants.push_back` again.
14:36:22 <merni> I want to make sure it works here first
14:37:34 <merni> Also, if your pr is merged first, I can get rid of that whole `if (e->info.variant_id != eid && e->info.variant_id != INVALID_ENGINE) {` since the while loop checks the latter already
14:38:09 <georgevb> peter1138: Yes, it does
14:38:32 <peter1138> Yeah... I can't just merge it though :)
15:01:23 <merni> georgevb: Thanks. I'll add the fix for autoreplace and force-push
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15:24:28 <merni> I guess it needs "Fix" on each issue
15:35:42 <peter1138> Hmm, how do different languages handle lists? e.g. English is "a, b, and c" (or "a, b and c" if you reject the Oxford comma for some reason...)
15:36:28 <merni> Sanskrit does something like "a, b, c-and"
15:36:41 <merni> I think there are some languages which add a word to each item too
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15:47:18 <alfagamma7> It's a,b,c mostly in every language I guess ( the ones mostly spoken anyway)
15:49:08 <peter1138> It's not "a,b,c" in English.
15:49:31 <merni> nor in any of the other 3 languages I know
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15:59:17 <frosch123> in that case: german also rejects the oxford comma
16:00:00 <peter1138> Being "not English" is a valid reason :-)
16:00:18 <peter1138> And, of course, English is "a and b" of it's just two items.
16:00:22 <frosch123> the most universal way is probably to avoid proper sentences, and use itemizations instead. like "stuff: a, b, c"
16:00:53 <peter1138> I'm looking at STR_NEWS_STATION_NOW_ACCEPTS_CARGO, and STR_NEWS_STATION_NOW_ACCEPTS_CARGO_AND_CARGO.
16:01:42 <peter1138> Which is of course limited to only showing two cargo types, and building in a list for that. We have, elsewhere {CARGO_LIST}, which just produces the comma-separated list like you suggest.
16:02:18 <frosch123> STR_TOWN_VIEW_CARGO_LAST_MONTH_MAX is funny
16:03:10 <frosch123> ah, no, it always uses a single cargo
16:03:28 <peter1138> That is... funny in a different way!
16:04:09 <peter1138> "PeterN"... who is this guy?
16:04:57 <peter1138> > This fixes issue #5998. We use CARGO_LIST with just the appropriate cargo bit set. This avoids needing to look at the CargoSpec directly or adding a new string code.
16:05:01 <peter1138> I'm not sure that's a good reason. Oh well.
16:19:47 <andythenorth> peter1138: sorry I did not
16:20:39 <peter1138> It's okay, I faked it.
16:24:35 <garlic_bread42> frosch123: sorry for the ping, but - anything else i could do from my side? I've just tried re-compiling the .grf in case it's something on the file itself. Yet the issue still remains.
16:24:51 <peter1138> It's not the worst... but
16:31:10 <frosch123> garlic_bread42: i don't know. did you try a different browser?
16:31:37 <frosch123> 6 hours ago someone else uploaded something, so back then it was not entirely broken
16:37:06 <garlic_bread42> frosch123: Tried it with up-to-date firefox and Edge, both the same.
16:43:25 <andythenorth> do station tiles need explaining?
16:43:34 <andythenorth> if they show cargo and crap?
16:43:44 <andythenorth> and have magical auto-layouts, or random sprites and so forth?
16:46:28 <andythenorth> name string accepts string control codes
16:46:34 <andythenorth> including line break {}
16:46:59 <andythenorth> the text widget expands vertically, but the second line is not rendered
16:47:27 <andythenorth> single line names are approximately vertically centered
16:49:31 <peter1138> It's meant to be a name, not a paragraph of description.
16:50:09 <andythenorth> do stations need descriptions?
16:50:17 <andythenorth> I never felt the need as a player
16:50:20 <frosch123> did andy get a new screen? he used to complain that window being too big
16:50:47 <andythenorth> someone merged my windowshade PR
16:51:27 <andythenorth> I only really used ISR, but discovering how it works was part of the charm
16:51:51 <andythenorth> does Horse explain train behaviour to players?
16:53:36 <andythenorth> question came up because of CHIPS 2
16:53:39 <andythenorth> this tile 'pigs'
16:54:00 <andythenorth> shows pigs in purchase, but not when built
16:54:17 <andythenorth> pigs are not a cargo, it triggers on livestock cargo
16:54:28 <andythenorth> how is player supposed to understand that? 😛
16:54:58 <belajalilija> andythenorth: a warehouse? that'd make a shitty horror movie
16:55:40 <merni> andythenorth: "Read docs" is what other station sets seem to like
16:56:13 <merni> Maybe stations should have newgrf extra text
17:20:52 <jfs> I got myself an old Roland SC-88 sound module too now, and of course have to listen to the Transport Tycoon soundtrack on it... it may be confirmation bias, but it seems to sound yet better. overall slightly more "balanced" sounds than the SC-55
17:28:28 <peter1138> I tried to buy one but a JV-1080 arrived instead :p
17:28:46 <jfs> I hear that's an excellent sound module too
17:29:19 <peter1138> It is, arguably more useful and better for what I do. But for plugging into games it's not quite the same.
17:29:20 <jfs> although I don't know if it's Sound Canvas compatible in the programmability (sysex) department
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17:53:36 <andythenorth> I reckon stations don't need newgrf extra text
17:53:44 <andythenorth> but CHIPS does need html docs
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17:56:27 <talltyler> A new crop for your grf.farm?
17:59:48 <alfagamma7> I need to make myself understand how you randomise sprites on the header part of your website
17:59:56 <andythenorth> basic javascript
18:00:02 <andythenorth> the only kind I will write
18:00:11 <andythenorth> just inspect it in web dev tools
18:01:24 <andythenorth> function random_img(){
18:01:56 <andythenorth> the docs templating sticks all the vehicles into a json structure
18:02:01 <andythenorth> then the ranomiser just picks some
18:02:45 <andythenorth> it writes out some escaped html, and puts it in the DOM
18:03:19 <andythenorth> that last part is a horrific pattern, there are many better ways to do it, but it was JFDI
18:03:28 <andythenorth> I deliberately avoided a career in javascript, fortunately
18:03:44 <andythenorth> others do it so much better 🙂
18:40:14 <alfagamma7> andythenorth: Thank you for the technical details
18:40:44 <alfagamma7> I legitimately thought that one can't work on frontend without js
18:51:48 <talltyler> ^^ This is not dependent on NoDL, it can be reviewed/merged at any time 🙂
19:09:03 <andythenorth> scale vehicle capacity next :p
19:09:10 <andythenorth> and speed, and purchase cost, and running cost
19:09:35 <andythenorth> and reliability, and model / vehicle lifetime
19:09:53 <andythenorth> not axle weight though, that would be silly
19:21:37 <andythenorth> anyone want to make a thing that turns an nml spritelayout into a png? 😛
19:30:31 <peter1138> Makes a change from my LGTM reviews :p
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19:45:59 <frosch123> hmm, i can't imagine this cargo scaling thing to work
19:46:25 <frosch123> ottd can't reallly distinguish primary industries from processing ones
19:59:26 <_jgr_> That is the reason for the adjustments to the "every 256 ticks" callback mentioned in the description
20:07:43 <peter1138> That seems to be distinguishing between 'native' production and 'callback' production, not primary and secondary.
20:09:20 <peter1138> It looks like all production is scaled, so when your primary industry is producing half a much as normal, your secondary industry is then accepting less than normal, and also producing half as much again?
20:11:28 <frosch123> 256-tick callback is used by both primary and secondary industries
20:12:05 <frosch123> currently i have the impression, that every newgrf would require updating to support these settings
20:12:18 <frosch123> which kind of defeats the point of the automatic scaling
20:12:44 <_jgr_> The whole point of doing it in this way is so that NewGRFs don't need to be aware of it at all
20:12:48 <frosch123> and then i wonder why none of the existing grf have a scaling setting
20:13:49 <frosch123> i guess it would require play-testing 🙂 i would expect all 3 of firs, ecs and yeti to break
20:14:37 <frosch123> firs breaks, because supply mechanics weirdly break if you have less supplies to deliver
20:14:50 <frosch123> ecs breaks completely, because it uses "last month production" variables to adjust stuff
20:15:26 <frosch123> yeti may just behave weird, but still work
20:19:54 <frosch123> ok, firs has parameters for scaling supply requirements
20:19:58 <andythenorth> /me whistles innocently etc
20:20:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: you added those 🙂
20:20:35 <frosch123> did you have feature requests to scale overall production?
20:20:46 <andythenorth> I tend to blank them out
20:20:55 <andythenorth> it's usually related to daylength blah blah 🙂
20:22:26 <andythenorth> /me trying to think of something helpful to say here, in principle scaling is a good thing
20:25:56 <frosch123> i think i am no fan of this automatic scaling. instead there could be a number of built-in parameters, which apply to default industries, and newgrf are encouraged to read and follow them
20:26:33 <frosch123> something like: if 5 newgrf have the same parameters, promote them to global parameters, and encourage all newgrf to follow them
20:26:59 <frosch123> yet, the daylength people seem to be a bubble on their own, which i have no contact to 🙂
20:27:09 <andythenorth> I was thinking similar about scaling parameters
20:27:25 <andythenorth> I made FIRS respect production_multiplier or however it's caleld
20:27:36 <andythenorth> which means GS can adjust FIRS production
20:27:47 <andythenorth> (only for primary)
20:28:24 <frosch123> oh, there is a precedent for GS scaling it differently?
20:28:31 <_jgr_> At a purely anecdotal level, this scaling has been in my branch for nearly 3 years now, it works with all the industry GRFs I've tested it with
20:28:44 <andythenorth> I use GS for gameplay purposes with FIRS
20:29:18 <andythenorth> I doubt other GS do this, think it relies on a recent PR
20:29:32 <andythenorth> related: vehicle capacity is pretty much an endless request if I don't include a grf parameter
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20:30:27 <seljasen> Hello, I just joined this channel because I have thought for some time on a suggestion I would like to make:
20:30:27 <seljasen> How about making an "original" game mode. Where all designs and limitations of the original game are active and preserved, but external things like multiplayer game matching is updated?
20:30:27 <seljasen> Having grown up playing the original game for months and years, I have never felt familiar with the "improvements" made in OpenTTD. I think it makes the game to easy or if you want - unbalanced. For example you would never prosper in the original game if you started transportation using airplains. Last time I tried OpenTTD starting with planes was no problem at all.
20:30:27 <seljasen> Would it be an exessive task to implement such a "no-mods" feature. Just providing the original game in modern packaging with modern online experience?
20:31:29 <_glx_> you can get almost original with the right settings
20:32:13 <andythenorth> lot of UI would need turned off
20:32:44 <andythenorth> would be a big job, to back out all the changes
20:34:39 <seljasen> _glx_: That is interesting! If so: how about providing a preset option that tunes the settings as close as possible to original game dynamics and game play?
20:34:47 <frosch123> i am pretty sure there was no problem starting with aircraft in the original game. there was even a tutorial how to do so
20:35:09 <andythenorth> did we delete the original pathfinder?
20:35:20 <seljasen> frosch123: Haha! I never managed anyhow 😅
20:35:22 <andythenorth> and did anyone reimplement the original cheating AI?
20:35:28 <andythenorth> hmm no, noAI prevents the cheating
20:35:41 <_glx_> cheating AI can't be done with noAI
20:35:51 <andythenorth> yeah, this is not going to work
20:36:06 <_jgr_> The original pathfinder and AI are probably not what people are nostalgic about
20:36:15 <andythenorth> play the original in DOSBox on null-modem cable?
20:36:19 <peter1138> No building on slopes eh?
20:36:20 <belajalilija> there's no AI in vanilla openttd iirc and if you open maps like megarail or highlands the game will crash
20:36:27 <_glx_> you can change plane speed back to 1/4
20:36:29 <frosch123> either way, the problem with "original" is, that everyone has different false memories about it. i got the impression people use "original" for whatever version they played first, be it the version from 1995, ottd 0.6, ottd 1.0 or whatever
20:36:44 <andythenorth> all I remember is one track per train
20:36:52 <andythenorth> because original signals don't work
20:37:02 <_jgr_> You can use GSs to give AIs money if you really want to help them along
20:37:05 <belajalilija> ttdlx would be original to me
20:37:11 <belajalilija> but i couldnt go back to that game now
20:37:19 <seljasen> andythenorth: Sounds accurate 😆
20:37:39 <andythenorth> I think the 'original, but multiplayer' is the wrong ditch to die in; most multiplayer servers have no players
20:37:59 <andythenorth> I doubt there's much audience for "multiplayer, but more limited"
20:38:04 <belajalilija> most people dont wanna play original
20:38:10 <andythenorth> just play null-modem cable with a friend
20:38:32 <andythenorth> presumably there's a way to null-modem, but tunneled over tcp/ip?
20:38:43 <peter1138> TTD's Highlands scenario loads for me...
20:39:00 <peter1138> I don't know where megarail comes from. But the game shouldn't crash.
20:39:28 <peter1138> Hmm, where's DOSBox gone...
20:39:55 <_jgr_> As I understand it, some old saves don't have NewGRF config stored in them, so if you have the "wrong" default NewGRF config they won't load
20:40:19 <seljasen> andythenorth: Yea! I can chek out this option!
20:40:19 <seljasen> Was primarly for friends play I was thinking. But ofcause if the original game could somhow be wrapped in OpenTTD environment for linking and such it would provide an easier way to do this.
20:40:19 <seljasen> My current setup is two Windows 98 computers with seriell cable!
20:41:18 <_glx_> openttd no longer runs on win9x I think
20:41:51 <seljasen> _glx_: Makes sense. My current setup is with original TTD
20:42:21 <jfs> Yeah it's been some years since we removed support for 9x
20:43:37 <frosch123> i just started a game in dosbox: high construction cost, high running cost, minimum loan
20:43:38 <jfs> Maybe ottd can be built with unicows but I think it might also be wanting some other api's not available on old windows versions now
20:43:55 <frosch123> i have enough starting fund to build two small airports in the largest two cities, and a coleman count
20:44:07 <frosch123> in the second year i have enough money for a second aircraft
20:45:08 <frosch123> main problem is that there is no fast forward, so it's mostly a waiting game
20:45:42 <seljasen> jfs: It is not a requirement for me to continue using the old computers. They simply provide the most convenient way of playing original TTD with linking if I do not want mods.
20:45:51 <frosch123> well, and if i get unlucky with plane crashes, i am probably bankrupt
20:47:58 <jfs> There might also be some hidden (only available through console commands) settings in ottd that can bring it closer to ttd gameplay
20:51:45 <andythenorth> could simulate the original AI with GS
20:51:55 <andythenorth> it could sock puppet an AI, using async mode to cheat
20:52:08 <andythenorth> I think it probably works
20:53:25 <seljasen> jfs: If so, then perhaps an automated script could be triggered to define all needed settings from selecting one certain option?
20:53:25 <seljasen> But as I understand there might also be more than just settings.
20:53:42 <_jgr_> The asynchronous command mode is deliberately not implemented for AIs
20:54:02 <andythenorth> but GS could build track etc on behalf of an AI...
20:54:28 <andythenorth> could use GS as a virtual host for AIs
20:54:34 <frosch123> watching two planes fly is truely boring
20:54:47 <andythenorth> maybe they'll crash!
20:56:07 <seljasen> frosch123: No! It's amazing! And you feel that you earn your mony like in i a real lif boring way, and if you spend them on somthing useless like levelling water you need to wait all that time once again. Prepares a kid for real life 😍
20:58:43 <andythenorth> ok animation for stations....there's always multiple ways to do animation
20:59:14 <andythenorth> but maybe check `animation_frame` in `prepare_layout` and advance spriteset indexes appropriately?
20:59:28 <andythenorth> or is there some built-in magic?
21:00:24 <andythenorth> maybe `animation_frame` is available directly in spritelayout
21:02:50 <_glx_> anything in the spritelayout will actually be transformed into action 2 and inserted before spriteset resolution
21:02:51 <frosch123> seljasen: i don't think your case "it's impossible in the original game to start with planes" is accurate
21:03:05 <frosch123> it's probably just kids being bad at games
21:03:15 <_glx_> (between prepare_layout and spriteset/cb handling)
21:03:34 <frosch123> i remember discussion with my child friends, whether fast concorde with low capacity is better than slower aircraft with larger capacity
21:04:07 <frosch123> we were convinced that more fast planes should be better, and just could not figure out that the airports were the bottleneck, not the travel
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21:10:34 <seljasen> frosch123: Wow! Perhaps I have been remembering it as super-impossible because it is too long since I actually tried stating without trains! Ill give it a new try 🤓
21:13:37 <seljasen> frosch123: That statement blew my mind just this instant! 🤯
21:15:20 <peter1138> Instead of scaling production of cargo, scale the display of cargo.
21:15:37 <peter1138> It looks like it's slower but otherwise isn't ;)
21:16:39 <frosch123> i think i need to build busses to keep the station rating up
21:16:53 <frosch123> the few planes just do not arrive often enough, so station rating is down the drain
21:17:28 <frosch123> and there is only "full load all", so airctaft also wait for mail
21:19:13 <frosch123> _glx_: if you were referring to original TTD: I can refit planes here to all non-liquid cargos
21:29:22 <_pruple> frosch123: the quantities are pretty wack though. The old 1/4 capacity. 🙂
21:32:39 <frosch123> the window limits are also kind of annoying, you get the error message and the construction toolbar closes
21:33:41 <_pruple> what a terrible game TTD was, it's a wonder it was ever popular. 😉
21:34:33 <frosch123> it's filled with rose-tinted memories
21:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the times were different
21:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> we didn't have much.
21:36:18 <frosch123> 3rd year went quite bad. one of the two towns halved population
21:36:46 <frosch123> so now i added a 3rd airport in the 4th year
21:37:07 <frosch123> i can't affort full load in the shrunken town
21:52:20 <frosch123> some sacrificial busses increase aircraft performance quite a lot
21:52:38 <frosch123> i forgot all those little tricks and cheats
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22:17:08 <_pruple> frosch123: "just turn cargodist on" 🙄
22:17:33 <frosch123> there are not even transfer orders
22:18:01 <frosch123> i ended up sending a bus to load/unload alternating at the same airport
22:18:17 <frosch123> costs 300£ running cost per year, but keeps up station rating
22:18:34 <frosch123> so aircraft can full load without waiting
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22:22:07 <frosch123> does anyone use the "upgrade newgrf preset" button?
22:25:48 <peter1138> I'm going to assume that's a question that leads on to "but it doesn't work"
22:26:30 <frosch123> i am unsure about the expectations for newgrf parameters
22:27:12 <frosch123> should they be reset, kept, kept if versions are savegame compatible. what about new settings, should they get default value, ...
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22:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> kept, and just hoping to match
22:29:08 <frosch123> i upgraded ogfx2, it got a lot more parameters, and they all got set to "0", which was not the default, so most of them are in an unexpected state
22:29:47 <frosch123> it would have been more useful, if they were reset
22:30:46 <_pruple> I think reset to default is the best option. that's basically the same as would happen if you manually removed the old version and added the new.
22:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, it seems wrong to me to silently drop all parameters
22:31:42 <frosch123> for newgrf "upgrade" is a manual option. but for basesets you always get the newest version, and it silently auto-upgrades after download
22:32:05 <_pruple> basesets don't have parameters though, do they?
22:32:23 <frosch123> ogfx2 has them, and i am preparing a PR to add them
22:34:12 <frosch123> this is what i got after downloading a new version
22:34:40 <frosch123> all climates default to "temperate" stuff, because that is value "0", but not "default"
22:36:26 <frosch123> some settings also stopped working, though that may be a bug in ogfx2, and not my fault 🙂
22:36:48 <frosch123> oh, i just noticed the caption
22:36:58 <frosch123> i guess i should replace "newgrf" with "baseset" there
22:44:16 <Eddi|zuHause> do we have a sane heuristic whether parameters actually changed, like compare the parameters with the number and ranges given in action 14?
22:49:50 <peter1138> Do we know if a parameter is set or not at this point, to be able to make it use default if not?
22:50:38 <frosch123> we know that old parameters used registers 0 to N
22:50:49 <frosch123> so if new parameters are appended at the end, it would work
22:51:10 <frosch123> it they share parameters or stuff changes in front, we do not know
22:51:34 <peter1138> What does 'share' mean?
22:51:40 <frosch123> in both cases we can assume that newgrf would set "version is savegame incompatible", so we could reset to default
22:52:11 <frosch123> a14 allows putting multiple gui parameters into the same grf parameter, by using bit masks
22:52:20 <frosch123> i think that's common for on/off switches
22:53:52 <frosch123> i think i'll go with the basic option for now: keep settings if newgrf claims to be compatible, reset all to defaults if newgrf claims savegame incompatible
22:54:19 <frosch123> then i can plame zephyris for not setting it incompatible, when adding more parameters 🙂
22:54:41 <peter1138> Yes, basic seems fine.
continue to next day ⏵
