IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-09-01
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02:58:06 <alfagamma_0007> Coding like George *might* be a bad idea
02:58:44 <alfagamma_0007> But well since I need some graphic effects working, I will roll with that
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06:28:05 <peter1139> Hmm, google maps seems to have changed its colours.
06:28:57 <andythenorth> reddit has changed also
06:29:04 <andythenorth> not today, but recently
06:32:07 <peter1139> "How to make mods on mobile" -- good luck with that.
06:42:18 <peter1139> How do I have so many browser tabs open :/
06:42:22 <alfagamma_0007> That's a bad idea
06:42:55 <truebrain> `JSON_PRIVATE_UNLESS_TESTED` .. lol, I like how nlohmann is thinking 😄
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06:43:58 <peter1139> Is that to keep its internals hidden, but still allow unit tests?
06:44:43 <truebrain> andythenorth: does GS / Squirrel understand floats? Or is everything an integer?
07:12:36 <truebrain> I will figure this out, no worries!
07:12:39 <truebrain> ffs .. how many mistakes ... 😛
07:15:13 <truebrain> one more for the road. But should be ready for review now 😄
07:19:35 <peter1139> Did it... refuse to send higher than 1400, but then said it was okay anyway? :D
07:20:17 <truebrain> no, it actively refused it
07:20:45 <truebrain> argh, Ubuntu has an older nlohmann variant, grr
07:21:17 <truebrain> we should just vendor it
07:21:52 <truebrain> the more I think about it, the more we should ... 😄
07:22:10 <truebrain> but let's try this first now
07:33:24 <andythenorth> /me adds GPL to FIRS GS
07:33:45 <peter1139> I'm adding tea to mug.
07:34:25 <andythenorth> this reminds me about coffee
07:35:58 <peter1139> I've finished the filter coffee already.
07:37:27 <andythenorth> I haven't even found the plunger thing
07:37:35 <andythenorth> cafetierre is not spellable
07:39:46 <peter1139> Hmm, should I buy a USB 5G interface, and a data SIM, just to ensure if my broadband goes down for a few hours again I still have internet access...
07:40:15 <peter1139> Probably something andythenorth will need for hosting on his MBP.
07:40:29 <peter1139> That and a wedge to stop the lid being closed.
07:45:23 <alfagamma_0007> Still going on with the MBP joke
07:46:40 <andythenorth> peter1138: take the magnet out of the lid 😛
07:49:28 <peter1139> I could leave the Discord, that would fix it.
07:50:30 <truebrain> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
07:52:23 <andythenorth> shall I try and find small lakes in GS?
07:52:51 <andythenorth> then I could delete offending industries
07:54:42 <andythenorth> find the xy loc of all industries of this type
07:54:49 <andythenorth> find the water tiles
07:55:06 <andythenorth> walk over all the tiles to see how many are connected
07:55:28 <truebrain> complain it is so slow on a 2kx2k
07:55:46 <truebrain> that was the next step in your plan, not?
07:56:11 <andythenorth> no I was going to cache the results for reuse, then complain about RAM use
07:56:32 <andythenorth> my guess is the tile walking might be ok, it only has to go about 64 tiles out each direction
07:57:07 <peter1139> Fixing the generation of the industry would be better than trying to do it in a GS.
07:57:32 <peter1139> Maybe you need a new var or two.
07:58:34 <andythenorth> how about a tile var for 'minimum water area of X connected tiles'
07:59:45 <peter1139> Rivers are water, so you need to be clear ;)
08:00:07 <ahyangyi> I want industries in river 😮
08:00:25 <andythenorth> coasts are water too? I forget
08:02:06 <andythenorth> should this be allowed? big lake, but not connected to map edge
08:04:03 <peter1139> Damn it, I had breakfast and then at more. This is why I shouldn't eat.
08:04:40 <andythenorth> I am doing breakfast experiments
08:04:45 <_zephyris> Better solution is probably to tidy terrain generation... Squirrel height map generation when?
08:04:56 <andythenorth> truebrain: wrote a WASM terrain generator
08:05:18 <truebrain> nope; there is even a PR to proof it
08:05:29 <andythenorth> see, I don't hallucinate EVERYTHING
08:07:56 <_zephyris> And beautiful sediment transfer model eroded landscapes? Or just a proof of concept?
08:08:19 <andythenorth> hmm is there not some magical way to keep a list of all connected water tiles?
08:08:26 <andythenorth> some kind of partition or vector or something
08:08:56 <peter1139> There's the patch that does something to improve ship pathfinding performance.
08:09:06 <andythenorth> I am aware that terraforming screws connected water caches
08:09:25 <andythenorth> and all those weird town expansion and bridge things that Samu kept writing code for
08:23:22 <talltyler> I’ve been just using Magic Bulldozer and money cheat to fix industry placement
08:24:28 <andythenorth> I'm planning to automate that with GS 😛
08:24:31 <andythenorth> done it too many times
08:24:46 <talltyler> That would be nice 🙂
08:25:16 <andythenorth> my GS fixes the balance of key industries in Steeltown
08:25:28 <andythenorth> coal mines, iron ore mines etc
08:25:41 <peter1139> Never mind fixing industry placement with appropriate variables...
08:26:41 <peter1139> I have a "Starbucks" brand frappuccino in a bottle. It's very sweet :/
08:26:51 <andythenorth> what are "variables"?
08:28:05 <peter1139> Birds. What are birds?
08:28:38 <andythenorth> hotkeys, what are hotkeys
08:28:47 <andythenorth> and why can't I make the object window open with one
08:29:12 <andythenorth> oh I can if the landscape toolbar is already open
08:29:38 <andythenorth> I see how this works
08:32:42 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: Proof that you are not ChatGPT
08:33:20 <truebrain> even a broken clock is right twice a daty
08:35:29 <peter1139> Unless it's a 24 hour clock, or the hands have fallen off, or...
08:38:58 <andythenorth> or GPT tells you there are 25 hours in the day
08:42:11 <ahyangyi> That's just daylength factor 😛
08:45:05 <peter1139> These trousers are mildly annoying. The elasticated waistband is held tight by... and elasticated pull cord.
08:45:27 <peter1139> So however much you tighten it's still a little floppy.
09:02:42 <andythenorth> not wanting to gatekeep play styles, but it seems a particularly niche addition
09:02:54 <andythenorth> it only makes sense in multiplayer, with cooperation, and players you trust
09:03:56 <andythenorth> it would be funny if it's only used because people don't want to share company passwords 🙂
09:04:13 <andythenorth> maybe because they use the same password for everything in their life 🙂
09:09:34 <peter1139> Oh right, `reduce()` does not work on `querySelectorAll()`'s output, of course.
09:11:22 <locosage> pickpacket: there was some gs that claims to do sharing but it's buggy
09:11:29 <locosage> I think it ran into command rate limit
09:11:39 <locosage> so may be fixeable now
09:11:53 <locosage> though I guess it was always possible to combine payments
09:12:59 <locosage> and ofc only works for rvs
09:14:01 <peter1139> I played the original infrastructure sharing back in the day, it was pretty fun.
09:16:56 <truebrain> I wrote several iterations of different types of infra sharing. My favourite is still that I made a toll-port where other trains could go via, and they got charged an amount for going through it
09:17:02 <truebrain> after that, they could make full use of your network
09:17:04 <truebrain> which was a bit silly 😛
09:19:48 <truebrain> ugh, really need to do shopping ... REALLY don't want to ...
09:21:20 <andythenorth> my AWS bill arrived
09:21:31 <andythenorth> it's only a static website on S3 with Cloudfront and Route 53
09:21:38 <andythenorth> should move it to my MBP
09:21:56 <truebrain> or better yet, Cloudflare 😉
09:22:09 <andythenorth> I see your newsletter and have subscribed
09:23:01 <andythenorth> you mean the CF service that *literally* solves my exact use case of publishing a static website from a makefile?
09:31:42 <peter1139> andythenorth, who can afford £0.86!?
09:31:56 <peter1139> Roleplaying huge corporations...
09:34:51 <peter1139> Okay, how is the weather tomorrow? Hopefully better than last night. 🌧️
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09:53:20 <pickpacket> andythenorth: I don't have any bills for my servers. Self hosting at home! Of course I do have to get storage when I need it... i guess that evens out...
09:56:33 <peter1139> You don't pay for electricity and an internet connection?
09:57:31 <pickpacket> peter1139: I would pay for internet either way and the servers draw some 1W between them
09:57:55 <peter1139> Ah we've moved from MBP hosting to RPi hosting.
09:58:10 <peter1139> At least there's no lid... or indeed any enclosure unless you provide one.
09:58:49 <pickpacket> it's awesome. Can run the entire openttd infrastructure on it.
10:01:29 <talltyler> truebrain: I also think this is the way to go. Is this a patch you wrote or a design document?
10:02:01 <truebrain> patch; in 2016 or so 😛
10:04:31 <talltyler> And for what it’s worth, I’m playing on a private server where all companies are password-less, but everyone has their own region connected to our neighbors. We coordinate any run-through trains and don’t generally touch each other’s networks unless there’s a jam, in which case we can join their company and resolve it (including with track/signal changes).
10:05:51 <talltyler> I wonder if the main reason for separate companies is different colors on the map to remember who’s who, plus different vehicle grouping strategies
10:06:51 <talltyler> I’d be interested in trying to rebase your patch, if you still have it 🙂
10:08:31 <truebrain> wouldn't even know where to look for it, honestly 🙂
10:08:39 <truebrain> it used to be on my dev-space, but that got cleaned up years ago 😛
10:09:06 <talltyler> Well, if you ever stumble upon it 🙂
10:09:30 <truebrain> it was just a waypoint that allowed other trains to enter, and charged them 😛
10:09:53 <talltyler> What was the charge?
10:10:17 <talltyler> And could you put them on your own network, to charge a train repeatedly?
10:10:40 <talltyler> “Four tolls to go to the big city, only two to the sawmill”
10:11:18 <truebrain> I have no idea anymore 😛
10:11:23 <truebrain> it mostly crashed the game in fun places
10:11:32 <truebrain> like a train from company #2 entering station of company #1 did .. funny things
10:11:37 <truebrain> most of that has been resolved btw
10:13:26 <truebrain> well, it was from before YAPF existed, so even older than 2016 😛 As I only had to fix NPF 😛
10:15:10 <truebrain> in other words, it might be easier to just recreate the idea 😄
10:36:45 <peter1139> Before YAPF is like 2006, not 2016.
10:37:46 <Timberwolf> We used to use one of the very early infrastructure sharing patches to essentially play a single company, but be able to see who built what.
10:48:03 <andythenorth> peter1139: Me and my Google level budget
10:50:34 <truebrain> talltyler: btw, griefing was really simple ... just demolish the tollport, and a train couldn't get back to its own network 😛
10:55:33 <talltyler> For sure, but griefing would be impossible to prevent with any form of infrastructure sharing
11:01:53 <_glx_> And squirrel knows floats, but we generally don't like them in OpenTTD
11:06:45 <_jgr_> Scripts only run on the server, so determinism isn't an issue for them
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12:16:10 <peter1139> Hmm, I lunched, and then some.
12:34:33 <peter1139> pickpacket, I guess I could pretend the power usage of my server contributes towards heating the house. Except it's not really cold enough right now :D
12:44:11 <andythenorth> my MBP also heats my house
12:44:21 <andythenorth> it's actually simpler than having a boiler
12:44:36 <andythenorth> central heating systems are just roleplaying the Romans
12:59:20 <ahyangyi> MBP can heat your house and can serve banana contents. What's not to like?
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13:09:13 <alfagamma_0007> Get another joke
13:09:24 <alfagamma_0007> it's getting boring for real
13:12:17 <andythenorth> we have to keep going until it's more than dead
13:12:20 <andythenorth> not just a bit dead
13:16:48 <ahyangyi> Alright, a new topic: what's the status of the bridge PR?
13:21:08 <ahyangyi> Yeah, are there known problems that need solving about this one?
13:22:54 <peter1139> Well it's out of date for start :)
13:25:07 <ahyangyi> Assuming that someone brings it up to date, what else needs to be done?
13:31:26 <peter1139> I don't know, maybe you could review it?
13:34:13 <alfagamma_0007> peter1139 and peter1138 are the same person
13:35:53 <truebrain> I would say one is more advanced than the other, but that is just me
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13:41:44 <peter1139> pickpacket, better put a penny in the meter to keep the RPi going.
13:43:07 <alfagamma_0007> I have one as well
13:43:07 <alfagamma_0007> Haven't experimented with it much
13:57:06 <ahyangyi> I guess I'll first try bringing it up to date and see what happens
13:57:30 <ahyangyi> Considering the amount of refactoring in the past months this might be highly nontrivial 😛
14:47:51 <andythenorth> so about variables Peter1139
14:48:21 <andythenorth> "how many tiles of type X are connected to this tile"?
14:48:29 <andythenorth> what classes do we have anyway
14:55:05 <peter1139> "Tiles of type" is a bit wonky.
15:35:47 <LordAro> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
15:35:48 <LordAro> __GI___libc_free (mem=0x6f57206f6c6c6548) at malloc.c:3102
15:36:12 <LordAro> if i tell you that the string being passed in was "Hello World!" ...
15:36:17 <LordAro> can you see what's happened?
15:37:22 <_glx_> the world was not happy
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16:30:15 <andythenorth> peter1139: such wonk
17:04:19 <dj> For terraforming - is there a command I can send in order to raise/lower the terrain N steps? By looking at the command enum it seems like there's only the CMD_LEVEL_LAND command w/ the level mode flag LM_LEVEL, LM_LOWER, and LM_RAISE, and none of the command options take a "height" paramater just a start/end tile (which means +0/-1/+1 respectively). I'd like to avoid having to to successive
17:04:19 <dj> DoCommand calls to set the terrain to a specific height
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17:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you have to repeat the command
17:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because raising one tile has too many side effects
17:41:09 <dj> That's the conclusion I reached too, but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks!
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18:08:35 <truebrain> LordAro: nice pointer 😄 Classic mistake 😄
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18:13:25 <andythenorth> awaiting the first bingo card comment
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18:18:31 <peter1139> Lunch was a while ago.
18:25:30 <andythenorth> is that cricket?
18:26:40 <truebrain> pretty sure you can only drink one of those two
18:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a "cricket" is some kind of cocktail?
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18:28:57 <alfagamma7> Cricket as in insect or as in sport?
18:30:17 <truebrain> I am confused how that question matters for the drinkability of it all?
18:31:24 <truebrain> you ask the question 😛
18:38:40 <andythenorth> is cricket a sport?
18:39:03 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:54:31 <peter1139> Mystery meat has been cooked and eaten. It was pork.
18:57:29 <andythenorth> could have been chicken
18:58:03 <andythenorth> JGRennisonviaGitHub: nooooooo 😦
18:58:22 <andythenorth> now I have to consider a tech tree for the solitary mixed-cargo vehicle in Horse 😛
19:00:38 <_jgr_> It does seem like a rather odd vehicle
19:01:42 <_jgr_> Nominally an engine, but with dreadful stats
19:04:57 <andythenorth> it's just for roleplaying
19:05:12 <andythenorth> wagons can't lead a train, hence the stats
19:34:25 <andythenorth> should we support the 'wagon can't lead train' case? 😛
19:34:39 <andythenorth> does OpenTTD just check if power is 0?
19:38:01 <peter1139> There's probably a patch for it.
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20:10:39 <belajalilija> ||What about just having functional steering carriages in OpenTTD||
20:10:52 <andythenorth> with a steering wheel
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20:12:25 <brickblock19280> One has to choose what track to use
20:12:40 <brickblock19280> Speeds up path signals
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20:39:58 <belajalilija> andythenorth: I choose to say it rather than dbso or dvt because idk the difference and steering carriage is the Danish translation
20:40:59 <andythenorth> ha I've worked out how to tell the grf the GS is there
20:46:39 <andythenorth> player will have to choose GS or non-GS economy
20:47:04 <andythenorth> if the non-GS economy is chosen, it will have one industry missing, which the GS will detect, and disable itself
20:47:27 <andythenorth> if the GS economy is chosen, the grf won't build certain industries, as they are better placed by the GS
20:47:57 <andythenorth> the primary comms route for GS <-> grf is by fingerprinting on cargos or industries
20:48:03 <andythenorth> it's quite laborious but totally practical
20:49:16 <kamnet> You're documenting all of this for others, right? 🙂
20:49:35 <andythenorth> not sure what I'm doing it, but I seem to do it
21:15:45 <peter1139> And not in a good way.
21:25:32 <andythenorth> best I've got so far
21:25:38 <peter1139> Do I want Starfield?
21:25:51 <andythenorth> is that the one with 1 billion worlds?
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21:32:43 <peter1139> I don't know anything about it, heh.
21:43:50 <andythenorth> it's not midnight though
21:44:42 <peter1139> I somehow managed to sleep at 21:20 yesterday...
21:49:21 <andythenorth> achievement unlocked
21:50:53 <peter1139> Anyway, 7:30 riding tomorrow, so good night.
21:50:58 <Timberwolf> Yesterday I wrote `switch_station_rating_iotc_or_firs_tropic_or_xis`, I have lost track of what hideous even is any more.
21:51:49 <andythenorth> it should be `switch_station_rating_${'_or_'.join(supported_grfs)}
21:52:58 <Timberwolf> Ah, if only I was using the pynml approach...
21:53:36 <Timberwolf> This is also not only against (my impression of) the NML design assumptions, it's against the design assumptions of my own tooling.
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