IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-07-12
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04:34:00 <greeter> greetings #openttd :-)
08:05:21 <pickpacket> greeter: greetings :)
09:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean aside from "the devs" continuously "destroying" the game? :p
09:32:14 <alfagamma_0007> "destroying" apparently
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10:31:07 <peter1138> andythenorth: Is it?
10:43:40 <truebrain> peter1138: Wauw, someone is salty .. lol.
11:05:12 <peter1138> They were a "buying shares is essneital to gameplay" person.
11:10:18 <truebrain> Ah. Well, they are free to have that opinion 🙂
11:10:45 <peter1138> Considering it was such a hot-topic for a brief minute...
11:11:03 <peter1138> Surprised we're not flodded with new implementions
11:11:12 <truebrain> I just hope forum moderators don't let the toxicity spread .. would be silly.
11:11:57 <truebrain> peter1138: Haha. Surprising, not? 😄
11:12:05 <talltyler> They are free to play 13.3 as long as they wish
11:12:10 <talltyler> The game is literally free
11:13:24 <truebrain> "someone" checked, there were no ads! 😛
11:18:22 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe time for a coffee
11:19:27 <talltyler> Is it elitist to remind people that our contributing document tells them what to do if they disagree?
11:19:27 <talltyler> I do not agree with the goals of the official branch, what can I do instead?
11:19:27 <talltyler> Fork! There is a rich history of experimental patches for OpenTTD.
11:20:17 <talltyler> It’s right below the “rules” that some members have taken to accusing of us “breaking,” seeming to think that they are part of a checks-and-balances system
11:20:45 <talltyler> Anyone is welcome to start a Share Trading Patch Pack whenever they want
11:21:18 <talltyler> Sorry, this kind of negativity is not how I like to start my day. Done with the forums for a while. 😑
11:25:51 <peter1138> Oh I'm sorry, I highlighted the post only because it was relevant to the previous few messages. I found it more on the amusing side.
11:35:32 <locosage> there is a share trading patch pack already 😜
11:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "but there are no servers using it" :p
11:38:05 <truebrain> ugh .. I always nicely clean up my remote branches .. but that doesn't remove my local branches ... so I have a lot of those .. how to know which ones are active 😛
11:38:47 <truebrain> ugh .. rebasing an old branch ... so many conflicts! 😄
11:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> delete all of them, and repopulate them from the remote branches :p
11:38:58 <locosage> Eddi|zuHause: maybe not right now, but the largest vanilla game on it had like 80+ companies, no vanilla had ever come anywhere near that number! :p
11:39:38 <truebrain> might have something to do with it
11:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> locosage: how dare you challenge my fake statement with real statistics :p
11:41:57 <orudge> truebrain: almost £500 of donations now since the start of the month, thanks I can only assume to your blog posts!
11:42:13 <truebrain> orudge: good good 🙂
11:42:25 <_glx_> truebrain: I have a `git rm-gone` for that
11:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "the post has been successfully reported to moderators as 'off-topic'"... surely that'll fix things?
11:45:45 <truebrain> _glx_: I hope you understand that doesn't actually means anything to me? 😄
11:46:02 <truebrain> as I guess it is a local git command you added? 😛
11:57:59 <truebrain> owh joy, fmt::formatter template errors ... this will be "fun" 😛
11:58:05 <truebrain> `error: ambiguous partial specializations`
12:06:05 <truebrain> ah .. it was a change from the rebase causing it
12:09:02 <truebrain> what "type" is "Year - Year" ...
12:09:09 <truebrain> it currently still is "Year" .. but does that make sense?
12:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> one is a kind of date, and one is a kind of timespan?
12:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a date is a special kind of timespan related to an epoch. both kinda have the same units
12:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same difference as point vs. vector
12:12:42 <truebrain> delta vs absoluut 🙂
12:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> a vector becomes a point if you assign an origin
12:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> none of that is an answer to your question :)
12:13:26 <truebrain> Rubidium: to pick your brain a bit .. I am reviving my "use StrongTypeDef more often", and one thing I notice is that it is used a lot in combination with SetDParam. Now most of these StrongTypeDef as in fact an integer, and although all other conversions need to be done explicit, in case of SetDParam I kinda want to make the exception
12:13:34 <truebrain> however, that means I would need to template SetDParam
12:13:47 <truebrain> do you see any issue with this (given you have worked on this most recently and possibly have other plans with it)
12:14:04 <truebrain> it wouild also allows SetDParamStr to become SetDParam, I guess
12:19:02 <truebrain> where Year - Year is not the most important thing to figure out, a Date - Date is a bit more nasty 😄 What is the resulting unit 😛
12:19:13 <truebrain> subtracting strong typedef things is vague 😛
12:19:43 <truebrain> tempted to make Date - Date -> Day 😄
12:25:32 <truebrain> well, no, Date already is in Days .. we just call it Date because .. reasons?
12:25:34 <truebrain> it is not actually a date 😛
12:26:53 <truebrain> we have a struct named `YearMonthDay`, which is more like what I would consider a date 😄
12:56:47 <andythenorth> peter1138: Dunno, I’m not a dev 🙂
12:57:00 <truebrain> was that an option?
13:16:26 <truebrain> meh, still lot of unrelated stuff to clean up before that PR becomes readable 🙂
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14:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that a good thing?
14:45:09 <peter1138> Not when I want the ground to be dry for a ride on the trails later.
14:55:56 <alfagamma_0007> Even though I am a particularly bad cyclist
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15:07:17 <greengaeru5122f> already approved but still no access
15:08:35 <alfagamma_0007> Way too many tabs, mate
15:11:41 <LordAro> that's a long way from too many tabs
15:11:53 <LordAro> greengaeru5122f: have you followed the process?
15:12:04 <LordAro> as in, have you requested access to a language?
15:21:42 <LordAro> truebrain: ^ something cloudflarish broken?
15:23:08 <_glx_> greengaeru5122f: logout and retry mayeb
15:24:07 <truebrain> LordAro: Nope, Cloudflare is not involved 🙂
15:25:37 <_glx_> IIRC it happens when access is granted while logged in
15:26:35 <greengaeru5122f> i did not click the invitation link...
15:27:04 <_glx_> yeah following the instructions helps 😉
15:28:38 <truebrain> After-the-fact-deny for not reading 😄
15:30:20 <_glx_> we have 56 expired invitations
15:30:52 <truebrain> It is a good way to filter 🙂
15:36:37 <LordAro> truebrain: i thought perhaps eints itself might not be updating
15:36:45 <LordAro> or rather, may not be getting updates
15:36:55 <LordAro> but you're right, it's all GH-based
15:37:11 <truebrain> Nah. This is in 99% of the cases so far users not reading 🙂
15:37:37 <LordAro> maybe we need a "have you accepted the invite?" when no projects are available :p
15:38:54 <truebrain> Nah. I am fine with this being a filter. And sometimes a translator actually asks what is going on, giving me some hope they actually want to translate 😄
15:39:24 <truebrain> A big subset of users never made any modification after signup
15:39:48 <truebrain> I think most people underestimate the size of it all 😄
16:49:53 <_glx_> and some requests access but only check weeks after
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16:50:14 <olionkey> Unsure if anyone else ran into this issue but I believe that Windows is giving a false positive on two NewGRFS from bananas reporting that there is trojan scripts in it. Mainly Iron Horse and Danish trains I know there isn't any in it but was wondering if anyone else has been running into that issue.
16:50:28 <olionkey> I let tyler and Andy know though tyler reccomened I post something in here about it
16:50:35 <_glx_> can't do anything about that
16:52:26 <truebrain> This happens from time to time. There is little we can do about it from our end .. heuristics being heuristic
16:52:39 <truebrain> often it stops complaining within a week or so
16:53:00 <olionkey> Alright did a virus total check which is something I should have done last night when I got it and it looks fine
16:53:55 <truebrain> I love how clear and descriptive Microsoft is ......... /s
16:54:09 <olionkey> Supposedly false positive
16:54:49 <olionkey> that is what I thought it was and was unsure if this was a problem you guys had before
16:54:58 <truebrain> it is always horrible if you can't find any details about a trojan .. like .. come on anti-virus websites ..
16:55:16 <olionkey> There isa github repo full of virus it might be on there
16:55:32 <truebrain> how virus detection works, is for example looking for a bytestring .. as we have a random collection of bytestrings, this sometimes triggers different anti-virus systems .. it happens from time to time 🙂
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16:55:47 <frosch123> if we encrypt newgrfs, does that make them more or less likely to trigger scanners?
16:55:54 <Rubidium> truebrain: SetDParamStr could definitely be renamed to SetDParam, and adding a templated version for strong typedefs shouldn't be a problem if that just calls the int64_t one
16:57:11 <truebrain> Rubidium: cool; didn't want to add code that ruins your plans 🙂
16:57:12 <Rubidium> frosch123: if I had to bet on it, I would probably bet on not encrypted since (malicious) computer code isn't as random as encrypted data would be
16:57:22 <truebrain> it does require a bit of trickery to make it templated, but I have some initial code cooked up 🙂
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16:58:41 <truebrain> olionkey: anyway, as with everything, when in doubt, run it through virustotal.com
16:58:45 <frosch123> yeah, but maybe scanners consider "random data" as "probably encrypted, probably malicious"
16:58:52 <truebrain> it will give you an overview how many anti-virus considers it a problem
16:59:03 <truebrain> often you see only 1 saying: BAD .. which mostly means a false positive
16:59:11 <olionkey> truebrain: yea I ended doing it like 5 minutes ago. Should ahve done it last night but it didnt cross my mind
17:00:43 <locosage> I'd bet on encrypted because viruses are probably encrypted too xD
17:00:54 <Rubidium> truebrain: though since you've picked up the date/time related stuff... any insight on the naming for #11112?
17:01:13 <peter1138> Anyway, you don't run tar files, so it doesn't really matter too much if it did have a virus in it 😄
17:01:33 <olionkey> yea but windows kept deleting the files when ever I downloaded the grf
17:01:44 <olionkey> and couldnt figure out why until I looked at window defender
17:01:48 <truebrain> "periods in transit ".. my mind is weird, but I was like: are these female? 😛
17:02:09 <olionkey> also the server I run doesn't like running the grfs for some reason
17:02:24 <olionkey> probably for the same reason
17:02:29 * Rubidium wonders what truebrain is thinking about with all those standard C++ types :D
17:03:21 <truebrain> btw, in theory you don't have to bump the savegame
17:03:26 <truebrain> but it also really doesn't hurt, so who cares 😛
17:03:44 <peter1138> Servers usually never run virus detection.
17:04:12 <peter1138> (Unless it's a Windows server I suppose, but that's crazy talk)
17:05:27 <olionkey> its linux as far as I know
17:05:50 <olionkey> Though would upload the grfs try to load a save and it would error out not being able to load the save due to grfs missing
17:06:47 <truebrain> we have too many units of time 😛
17:08:15 <belajalilija> i see the grf thingy got talked on
17:10:10 <locosage> good comments explain why, they said...
17:11:32 <frosch123> in that case it's just: because ttdp did it like that, and old newgrfs assume so
17:12:06 <truebrain> ttdp still following us around 🙂
17:12:15 <truebrain> it is like this stalker we all learnt to live with
17:13:19 <frosch123> i guess dualheads are mostly deprecated
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17:13:52 <brickblock19280> There are a lot of sets which use them for multiple units
17:14:20 <frosch123> there are a lot of sets which let mail/pax wagons display the rear part
17:14:25 <brickblock19280> Would be cool if you could set any vehicle as the other part tho
17:15:21 <brickblock19280> Would solve this and let articulated vehicles be dual ended
17:16:02 <locosage> having articulated parts not be consecutive would probably cause all kinds of issues though
17:17:19 <locosage> for example, to get the correct cargo subtype you need to know position of the articulated part in a vehicle
17:18:23 <locosage> brickblock19280: yeah, only first part in the chain gets correct subtype
17:18:27 <locosage> unless I missed something
17:18:40 <truebrain> _glx_: make it part of the other scripts we kick-off in the CI 😄
17:19:12 <brickblock19280> That could be complicated now that I think about it
17:19:19 <truebrain> ofc means you first have to fix all those entries .... 😄
17:20:27 <talltyler> Also agree it’s a good idea
17:20:36 <talltyler> Not sure why I hit merge instead of Approve 🙂
17:22:18 <locosage> brickblock19280: though would probably be fine if "tail" is just another vehicle that gets bought automatically, not articulated part
17:22:29 <talltyler> I think just hungry hungry. Its 13:22 and I haven’t eaten lunch yet
17:23:41 <truebrain> I already had dinner! 😮
17:25:38 <peter1138> Just finishing mine.
17:26:21 <talltyler> I went on a bike ride this morning and now I’m having salad for lunch. Am I secretly Peter’s sock puppet account?
17:36:34 <truebrain> this is the bikeshed channel .. not bike channel .. ffs 😛
17:58:34 <peter1138> And indeed, just got my bike out of the bikeshed.
18:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the definition of a bikeshed, really?
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18:08:13 <truebrain> `a small building in which bicycles are stored` .. really, learn to read a dictionary
18:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so, what is "small", what is "building", what is "a", what is "stored" and what is "bicycle"? :p
18:37:47 <pickpacket> Eddi|zuHause: "small" is the opposite of "big", "building" is the act of constructing something (in present tense), "a" is the first letter of the latin alphabet
18:37:54 <pickpacket> I'm not really sure about the last two
18:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "building (noun)" not "building (present progressive)"
18:41:42 <pickpacket> you didn't specify
18:44:01 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:07:34 <keeeek> you people got an irc bridge here now?
19:10:02 <brickblock19280> Yes it's been like this for a while
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19:27:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: What colour is a bikeshed?
19:32:10 <kuhnovic> This is either a trick question or a terrible joke
19:39:00 <keeeek> brickblock19280: yeah i am not active at all
19:39:11 <keeeek> i just remember writing one and I got *immense* hate for it lol
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22:33:35 <leon13639> extended group color choices when
22:34:04 <leon13639> (such as being able to select separate wagon colors in a group)
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23:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: surely a bike shed should be grey.
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