IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-29
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00:00:06 <dP> iirc 3/4 of the savegame size is trees
00:07:25 <TallTyler> I locked a few discussions to see if that’ll stop the bots - will unlock tomorrow
00:08:04 <petern> They don't make it easy just to flag as spam do they?
00:09:56 <TallTyler> Report seems to be something else
00:10:05 <TallTyler> And I’m on mobile so I don’t even know all the options
00:10:21 <TallTyler> I’m busy now so can’t respond to any more for a while
00:10:29 <petern> Tjhere is an option hidden away for spam, but you have to write a comment with evidence and all shiz...
00:12:33 <petern> It's not just "random values" in the savegame, it's data which was set via a random value.
00:14:13 <petern> We literally store "random bits" in the map array for some features, which of course need to be in the savegame.
00:14:21 <JGR> TallTyler: It does what it says on the tin, there's nothing wrong with it that i ca nsee
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00:14:58 <JGR> I haven't made any actual measurements of savegame sizes, however
00:15:40 <JGR> There isn't any observable change in tree behaviour
00:17:50 <dP> petern: tree counter is literally just initial random + tick_counter >> 8
00:18:53 <supermop_Home> seem to have lost my old station psd
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01:56:41 <andythenorth> oops sleeping time
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09:58:10 <pickpacket> working between Christmas and New Year is pretty useless
10:00:00 <Rubidium> why? You (can) get so many things done that you normally do not get to do
10:18:09 <pickpacket> Rubidium: it's boring to be alone at the office, and I'd rather have the time off :D
10:18:54 <pickpacket> Rubidium: but yeah, I do get a lot done. Soon finished with the task I'm on though, and for the next task I need help from a colleague who won't be back until after the holidays
10:21:16 <reldred> pickpacket: I’m getting a bit done, got the ingress side of a new web hosting setup done, teaching the new helpdesk guys how2cisco, etc etc
10:22:03 <pickpacket> petern: my first versions of the tea tea deluxe newgrf is soylent green :D Was a good way to figure out how to make industries in the first place. And I believe there is a soylent green newgrf
10:22:18 <pickpacket> reldred: that's nice!
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10:24:17 <reldred> Yeah it’s neat, got three afternoons of two hours each booked in with them, trying to cover as much as possible without their brains leaking out their ears
10:24:49 <reldred> Didn’t get much other work actually done today, mostly had to babysit the helpdesk
10:25:14 <pickpacket> reldred: our internal IT department has figured out that it wants to know a bunch of stuff about all the linux desktop computers in the company. I've been revamping a server + website + client that keeps track of necessary info. Not that internal IT will *ever* look at it... 1) they don't understand linux and don't want to learn, 2) there are 6
10:25:14 <pickpacket> people at the company who use linux, 5 of whom are in my team
10:26:15 <reldred> Yeah we’re a very small MSP, my role is supposed to be internal data systems, api integrations, grafana and powerbi, etc
10:26:28 <reldred> But im also their only remaining network engineer lmao
10:26:45 <reldred> So I also look after the DC, etc
10:27:12 <reldred> And I seem to somehow have landed the job of supervising/mentoring the IT helpdesk
10:34:40 <Merni> andythenorth: Chips but with more buildings and pax platforms
10:39:15 <Rubidium> pickpacket: if it were "free" time off (i.e. it does not cut into days I can use for vacation), then I can agree. But I rather have my free time when for actual vacation, and I rather not travel during public holidays/common vacation times due to congestion and price concerns
10:40:29 <pickpacket> Rubidium: I get 30 vacation days per year. Could easily spend 4 of them for this time :D No need to travel -- I can just stay at home and play openttd. Maybe go on a date or two
10:40:59 <Pruple> petern: photographic grey... back in the day they had the same problem andy's having with black being uncontrasty, so they painted new locos light grey before photographing them so the details came out. 😛
10:41:01 <pickpacket> the problem is that due to bureaucracy mishaps I'm currently at *minus* 3 vacation days...
10:41:02 <Rubidium> but then, I don't have to be at the office and I have a few other co-workers that are still working
10:41:24 <pickpacket> I don't have to be at the office either really. It's just nice to get out a bit
11:16:29 <Pruple> should farm fields in arctic and tropic use more than one fence style?
11:19:12 <pickpacket> reldred: sounds like you're doing a lot of different things :D
11:21:08 <reldred> It’s uhhhhhhh it’s not ideal
11:29:09 <andythenorth> cmake -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release ..
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11:57:22 <petern> 60 lines instead of 30 lines. Non-jquery is 'better'.
11:58:02 <andythenorth> our diagonal roads are the best diagonal roads
11:59:05 <andythenorth> I might build my train lines this way
12:06:30 <petern> What can I blow today?
12:12:09 <TallTyler> Pruple: My favorite quote from that article: “…this could include such specific instructions as having a bowler-hatted man precisely six feet tall standing alongside, as a scale measure.”
12:12:57 <TallTyler> Imagine being the Ruler Man at the company, with the special height hat stored under lock and key in the director’s office
12:23:05 <pickpacket> andythenorth: what textures are you using?
12:23:41 <Pruple> looks like original TTD to me
12:26:00 <andythenorth> there are others? :p
14:41:01 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: given that the Discord bridge seems to work, any chance of bridging the other Discord channels here as #openttd-foo or something
14:41:38 <FLHerne> occasionally I look in there and the discussions are usually interesting
14:54:16 <TallTyler> If we bridged to multiple Discord channels, how would messages sent on IRC end up in the proper channel?
14:54:39 <TallTyler> You might just need to use Discord 😉
14:54:58 <JGR> You can have multiple channels on IRC
14:55:47 <TallTyler> Oh, now I’m reading the original post to understand it that way 🙂
14:56:33 <andythenorth> anyone fancy adding hp/t here?
14:57:59 <TallTyler> Another sort by dropdown I have never ever used - there are some interesting options there 🙂
14:59:57 <JGR> It's one of those cases where most of the options are useless, but it's quite difficult to articulate why
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15:02:20 <andythenorth> I use it quite a lot
15:02:33 <andythenorth> I guess UI is quite circumstantial 😛
15:03:03 <andythenorth> there are only 4 there I don't use at least sometimes
15:03:55 <JGR> I use number, and occasionally length or cargo
15:05:19 <JGR> All of them no doubt fit into someone's specialist workflow somehow though
15:06:15 <andythenorth> filters are quite low-cost UI
15:06:23 <JGR> I suppose I can't talk, as my own branch has plenty of useless modes like that 😛
15:06:25 <andythenorth> and if you don't need them....it doesn't hurt much
15:07:49 <andythenorth> that's more like ... subtypes refit or something 😄
15:07:53 <andythenorth> filters are nearly free
15:08:12 <JGR> Actually, thinking about it, I don't use the cargo sort mode either, as the cargo filter does that better
15:08:25 <TallTyler> I bet hp/t would be easy to add, just needs the classic “somebody” to implement it 🙂
15:09:30 <JGR> Would this be current hp/t, or nominal when full hp/t?
15:10:49 <andythenorth> it's the nominal
15:11:04 <andythenorth> the consist has the attribute
15:15:09 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: The bridge can only bridge a single channel, by design. In theory it could be extended, but that would complicate the code drastically, and I really don't have motivation to do so 🙂 So it would mean someone would have to contribute that 🙂
15:16:05 <TrueBrain> for the relative few people still using IRC, honestly, not sure if that is worth the effort. Sorry to say, but you guys are the minority 🙂
15:16:41 <TrueBrain> basically I wrote this whole bridge for .. 6 people? 😄
15:18:25 <TallTyler> Has anyone ever used the Rename button in the build vehicle menu? I have not, and it’s lived in a blind spot until I noticed it when reviewing a PR just now. Does it only exist because vanilla OpenTTD trains don’t use the real vehicle names?
15:19:16 <JGR> Like many features, there's a small minority that uses it a lot
15:19:37 <TrueBrain> Guess I should finish the telemetry PR so we can see how many people click what buttons?
15:19:40 <JGR> I expect most players wouldn't miss it, I certainly wouldn't
15:19:44 <TrueBrain> (yes, I am trolling, to be clear :P)
15:20:02 <TallTyler> I have literally missed it for years - never even noticed it somehow
15:20:46 <JGR> It's mainly for the railway RP folks
15:24:41 <TrueBrain> glx[d]: you did notice that the latest NML release (0.7.1) failed for Windows / MacOS? (a while ago, I know, just checking :D)
15:28:22 <glx[d]> TrueBrain: Yes because it was a re-release
15:28:44 <TrueBrain> k; as long as everything went okay 🙂 Actions now give the suggestion it didn't 😉
15:28:45 <glx[d]> First time Linux failed
15:29:11 <glx[d]> Needed to change something in workflow then re released
15:29:34 <glx[d]> Of course the other had to fail because they were already existing
15:32:12 <glx[d]> TrueBrain: BTW release run #11 was the original 0.7.1 😉
15:32:28 <TrueBrain> it's all good; just checking 🙂
15:33:33 <LordAro> perhaps the release workflow should go via test pypi first to make sure
15:34:02 <glx[d]> Nml release workflow is not regularly tested like openttd one
15:34:21 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD's release workflow is not testing regularly too, as we find out every new release cycle 😄
15:34:27 * TrueBrain is looking at you Ubuntu / Debian
15:34:42 <glx[d]> At least a part is ran every night
15:35:54 <TallTyler> TrueBrain: I am strongly in favor of it, including the “sort by” method - sometimes it’s nice to see what’s new. That’s the default view for most mod sites including Steam Workshop
15:36:23 <TrueBrain> then please someone put effort in it 😄 I really like to close off the PRs in the other repos; they are annoying me 😛
15:36:41 <TallTyler> It just needs a rebase, right?
15:36:48 <TallTyler> I can’t do that from mobile 🙂
15:37:06 <petern> TrueBrain: Release early, release often, right?
15:37:53 <TrueBrain> petern: I once tried to with OpenTTD ... 😛
15:38:09 <TrueBrain> seems we are just stubborn enough to run in an endless: "one more PR!" cycle 😄
15:38:23 <glx[d]> Theorically nightlies could run the Ubuntu/Debian part but skip uploading
15:38:48 <petern> Now that we have Steam/Microsoft/GOG etc it's a lot easier on players too.
15:39:13 <TallTyler> Nobody wanted to ship 13.0 without variants and make Andy mad at them for an entire year 😛
15:39:49 <glx[d]> Instead we'll get mad grf authors ?
15:40:15 <TallTyler> If we need to change variant spec I suspect we’d have to release sooner
15:41:07 <TrueBrain> petern: yeah, I still think we should drop Ubuntu / Debian, but I sound like a broken record at this point in time 😛 The generic linux variant works shockingly well 🙂
15:42:05 <petern> We don't build any other distro-specific packages, right?
15:43:19 <petern> Merni: You're right, it would make more sense to have a *BSD build rather than Debian/Ubuntu builds.
15:44:44 <petern> Whatever happened to Flatpak?
15:45:36 <petern> Who was it who used the DOS port?
15:46:21 <petern> Ah, Robotboy. Of course.
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15:57:35 <TrueBrain> pretty sure this owner completely forgot he has them running
15:57:43 <TrueBrain> but it just doesn't stop running :DF
16:00:01 <TallTyler> Hmm, goes it approve #7729 but it’s so old the actions never run and I don’t have a button to run them on mobile 🤔
16:01:11 <TrueBrain> all active TURN sessions will be terminated in a bit; maintenance 🙂
16:01:36 <TrueBrain> and to those on IRC: we will be right back!
16:03:12 <LordAro> quick, talk shit about TrueBrain
16:03:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: so a normal conversation? 😛
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16:08:07 <DorpsGek> LordAro: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 minutes and 16 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> and we are back! 😛
16:09:05 <TrueBrain> okay, all dependencies updated, 2 less CVEs on our projects 🙂
16:10:07 <TrueBrain> it was, however, a painful round to update .. but we should now be good again for a while 😛
16:10:14 <TrueBrain> LordAro: pfff, nobody cares 😛
16:10:34 <TrueBrain> (read: I hate you are right :P)
16:12:07 <TrueBrain> right, and game-coordinator is also back on its feet .. always nice, if things "just work" 🙂
16:12:19 <TrueBrain> MnHebi: resurrecting old branches? 😛
16:13:35 <MnHebi> there actually was an Amiga branch?
16:13:51 <TrueBrain> not just a branch; it was in main
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16:14:32 <TrueBrain> removed Mar 5th, 2019
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16:18:13 <TallTyler> Now do Steam, I’m sure it’s equally fun 😛
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16:37:15 <andythenorth> wonder if we could do an actual tech tree with generations
16:37:26 <andythenorth> then buy menu could have option to hide / show previous generation as a toggle
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16:56:21 <andythenorth> I have a confession 😛
16:57:01 <supermop_Home> too much horse?
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17:04:14 <andythenorth> I've played 40 years of variants
17:06:45 <petern> Variant flag to hide previous variants introduced earlier, even if not expired == tech-tree?
17:07:05 <petern> Although that's a bit too specific.
17:07:53 <andythenorth> would put them on a tech line I guess 🙂
17:08:40 <supermop_Home> i haven't started making stations, even though i found my old station PSDs
17:09:03 <supermop_Home> at a bit of a loss for knowing what exactly i want to make of them
17:09:16 <andythenorth> petern: the ones who said it's weird to reset engine age for a repaint....might have a point 😛
17:09:22 <andythenorth> rest of it works 100%
17:10:15 * andythenorth invents more auto-replace buttons :P
17:12:40 <petern> Extra flag and then keep age?
17:13:52 <petern> Apparently you can just use cargo subtypes for liveries, or something.
17:14:18 <andythenorth> it makes more sense in JGRPP with template replacement, but eh
17:14:49 <andythenorth> how about if you ctrl-click 'start replacing' it keeps stats?
17:14:53 <andythenorth> but otherwise it doesn't 😛
17:16:03 <andythenorth> I heard middle mouse button is unused
17:16:11 <andythenorth> except on the RiscOS port
17:19:18 <petern> You need to get an AMX Mouse.
17:21:28 <MnHebi> petern: Get a vertical mouse.
17:22:35 <MnHebi> does it really help with the aches if you use the mouse a lot?
17:25:47 <petern> I don't know, I switched as a preventative measure. It is more comfortable though.
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17:30:14 <andythenorth> hmm I am using a lot of RVs
17:30:19 <andythenorth> playing it wrong?
17:36:33 <andythenorth> I've made a massive overwhelming train grf, and it's distracting 😛
17:36:41 <andythenorth> so many trains to play with
17:42:24 <MnHebi> Wait till you make a truck grf with variations.
17:42:38 <MnHebi> Cause the amount of different kinds of cab painting styles is over 9000 :D
17:45:10 <andythenorth> after I've converted all my grfs to it
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17:49:59 <supermop_Home> andythenorth want to redraw all my trucks?
17:51:25 <MnHebi> hey mop, as someone who has owned a few kei cars. The one in your set is fun, but somewhat unrealistic for 1950's :P
17:51:50 <MnHebi> they didn't reach 120km/h until around 1991..
17:52:38 <supermop_Home> i'm not sure whether i want to make Hawaiian-ish stations, or just a basic station that you can drag to be 2x5, fits in most places, and chiefly doesn't look like the same brick arch ogfx one I've been staring at for nearly 15 years
17:53:07 <supermop_Home> MnHebi as much as i love kei trucks, there isn't one in my grf
17:53:28 <MnHebi> I thought that one tiny truck was one
17:53:28 <supermop_Home> thought about adding them as 'vehicles cargo' though
17:53:29 <andythenorth> lot of RVs for one station
17:53:51 <MnHebi> (besides the absurd speed and payload being higher than a 1950s kei truck could haul)
17:53:57 <supermop_Home> the tiny truck is meant to be a regular Toyota or Datsun pickup
17:54:46 <supermop_Home> meant to be roughly passenger car sized, as i had to draw that and the wrx as cargo anyway
17:55:40 <supermop_Home> in game cargo isn't really granular enough for kei-sized cargo
17:56:03 <supermop_Home> like delivering an individual tuna to a sushi restaurant
17:56:55 <supermop_Home> MnHebi whatever your imagination desires - Tama is sort of Hino inspired but not really
17:57:52 <supermop_Home> and obviously that makes the wrx right out as it should be a lancer
17:57:54 <MnHebi> I was drooling over a Hino Super Dolphin this morning...
17:58:37 <supermop_Home> but fuji heavy industries doesn't cypher over to a made up truck company as well
18:01:06 <supermop_Home> tama is short and catchy, maps to tokyo suburb with some industrial history, where such a company conceivably could have arisen, and nods to the snappily liveried monorail i like
18:03:08 <MnHebi> too bad all the Hino 3.5 tonners have disappeared under the ground :(
18:03:38 <MnHebi> these days there is no true Hino light truck...well, the Dyna badge engineer does have a joint Toyota/Hino engine
18:04:09 <supermop_Home> andythenorth maybe build a train?
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18:07:41 <MnHebi> when are you gona make the trucks use a truck starting sound btw? :P
18:07:57 <MnHebi> it bothers me when I hear just a construction sound every time a truck starts..
18:08:14 <supermop_Home> never play with sound on so never noticed
18:08:45 <MnHebi> original TTD sound archives also have a few unused truck startup sounds..
18:16:45 <LordAro> i exited OTTD fullscreen and X crashed
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18:19:39 <EmperorJake> wait, the industry sound effects play when the industry actually produces something?
18:20:45 <EmperorJake> That's what the SoundIDs page seems to imply
18:20:51 <MnHebi> cause I don't recall the factory whistle coinciding with cargo supply to station
18:21:46 <EmperorJake> That's what I thought too
18:24:23 <supermop_Home> go out to get a coffee or make one?
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18:30:30 <supermop_Home> note the orientation of punchbowl crater in background for reference
18:43:11 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:44:23 <LordAro> is there any real reason why we use a monospace font for displaying text files?
18:44:41 <LordAro> other than things like markdown tables possibly existing?
18:45:20 <LordAro> (i say this as the person who actually added the thing in the first place)
18:45:37 <FLHerne> and other random hand-formatting stuff, like underline with hyphens
18:45:57 <petern> The usual license files tend to be preformatted for 80 column layout, too.
18:46:35 <LordAro> i suppose switching licence files to be non-monospaced would be too inconsistent
18:50:52 <petern> What font, font size & interface scale?
19:02:42 <LordAro> ah fuck, pushed my branch to ottd org
19:21:56 <petern> EmperorJake: Still there?
19:24:28 <EmperorJake> petern: Happens at all interface scales
19:24:38 <supermop_Home> going for a walk... shoot 120 in color or 35mm in b&w...
19:24:42 <EmperorJake> MacOS, JGRPP 50.1, GRF is AXIS
19:34:39 <EmperorJake> I changed it to Helvetica and it still happens
19:35:09 <EmperorJake> However it looks normal in 13.0 beta2
19:37:17 <EmperorJake> Just tested the nightly, it's not just a JGR thing
19:37:39 <EmperorJake> Same thing with no GRFs
19:48:38 <andythenorth> forgot to cook dinner
19:48:56 <petern> andy you're on macOS, do you get anything similar?
19:49:39 <andythenorth> I have to set a font?
19:56:28 <petern> Hmm, that would seem to mean that `GetStringBoundingBox()` returns less than `line.GetWidth()`
19:57:14 <petern> But GetStringBoundingBox() calls GetBounds() which calls GetWidth(). Huh.
20:03:39 <TrueBrain> the only way I can somewhat reproduce the mention in #10234 about `-u`, is when I didn't follow the instructions 😛
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20:19:19 <TrueBrain> okay, the resulting WASM of that PR doesn't seem to work at all 😛 Let's see why not ...
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20:35:47 <TrueBrain> hmm, emscripten did update to SDL 2.24.0 .. would something like that break it? Hmm
20:38:09 <TrueBrain> lol, no, it is the lzma patch ..
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20:52:14 <glx> at least it's not something internal to openttd
20:52:35 <TrueBrain> well, we patch in lzma support 😄
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21:02:35 <TrueBrain> compiling for emscripten does show two warnings; I wonder if any other target also shows those ..
21:03:22 <TrueBrain> `OpenTTD/src/engine.cpp:541:7: warning: variable 'index' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]`
21:03:59 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, that is a valid warning
21:04:00 <glx[d]> nightly doesn't report anything
21:04:13 <TrueBrain> yeah, but a release will tell you about it 😄
21:04:22 <TrueBrain> it is a "used only with asserts" kinda thing 🙂
21:04:51 <TrueBrain> very old code; but a legit warning nevertheless 🙂
21:05:07 <TrueBrain> `OpenTTD/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqstate.cpp:453:20: warning: variable 'nfound' set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]`
21:10:39 <TrueBrain> for someone else to tackle, if they like .. let's find out why emscripten fails first 🙂
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21:26:34 <TrueBrain> okay, the ports system of emscripten is .. annoying 😛 Which might be the reason it is failing 🙂
21:26:49 <TrueBrain> it seems to be generating the fastpos_table, instead of being a library
21:36:55 <glx[d]> ok let's try mingw64 release without asserts, I should get some warnings
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21:40:06 <dP> how is purchase sprite positioned? is it just a fixed offset for all vehicles?
21:44:44 <petern> Purchase sprite = West facing sprite.
21:46:40 <dP> I override it in purchase chain
21:46:57 <dP> but I'm trying to understand at what location is it drawn
21:46:58 <petern> It's still a west facing sprite.
21:47:05 <dP> because it's somewhere in the middle of something
21:47:26 <dP> so what xofs/yofs should I give to the sprite
21:47:33 <petern> Same as any other west facing sprite.
21:47:53 <dP> normally west fasing sprites are drawn in the middle of vehicle
21:48:02 <dP> there is no vehicle in the purchase list :P
21:49:12 <petern> Use the same offsets you use for the normal west facing sprite.
21:49:42 <dP> they're different for every length
21:50:10 <petern> Because the offset is in the middle...
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21:50:17 <dP> does purchase list check vehicle length and shifts drawing point?
21:50:21 <petern> dP: Even you said that.
21:50:56 <dP> and even if it does that what about the height
21:51:12 <petern> Same as for your normal views.
21:51:57 <petern> The purchase list sprite is exactly the same same as your normal west facing sprite, the reason purchase list sprites exist is so that you can adorn them with extras if you like (tenders, icons, etc...)
21:52:16 <glx[d]> and of course I don't get any warnings
21:52:20 <petern> It's not even a sprite. It's action 1 that has 4 or 8 sprites...
21:52:31 <dP> it's the same but what point is the center of vehicle in the purchase list?
21:52:57 <petern> The centre of the vehicle is... the centre of the vehicle.
21:53:25 <petern> Centre. Central. Half-way?
21:53:38 <dP> there is no vehicle in the purchase list
21:53:59 <petern> The centre of the engine is exactly the same spot.
21:54:07 <dP> I already found y offset, it's just 7 :p
21:55:02 <petern> It's exactly the same as your normal west facing sprite.
21:55:09 <dP> because unlike y it's not quite constant for some reason
21:55:28 <petern> That is... the centre.
21:56:37 <petern> Default sprite offsets are -14,-6. The default sprite size is 28,12.
21:56:50 <TrueBrain> okay, for some reason `fastpost_tablegen` seems to be executed from liblzma .. which is a `main()` .. which makes no sense to me 😛 Especially as it is excluded from being build .. this is weird 😄
21:57:22 <TrueBrain> but after some fiddling and slapping it around ..... it now seems to work
21:57:31 <TrueBrain> how ever could it build two `main()`s, I have no clue
21:58:02 <glx[d]> oh of course release without assert is built with -Wno-unused-variable -Wno-unused-but-set-parameter -Wno-unused-but-set-variable
21:58:27 <glx[d]> no wonder it doesn't warn
21:58:35 <TrueBrain> glx[d]: we had many warnings about this before 😄 But seems latest clang is now clever enough to no longer count a `index++` as "used" 🙂
21:59:11 <petern> It's common for NewGRFs to shift the Y offset a little to display a bit nicer in the viewport, in which case you should still use the same offset as your viewport sprites, and use the magical "traininfo_y_offset" to adjust the depot & build sprites)
21:59:29 <TrueBrain> ah!! Figured out why the original patch wasn't working ... missing `,` at the end of a list in Python
21:59:34 <TrueBrain> well, not end, in the middle
21:59:39 <TrueBrain> so it concatted the two entries
21:59:43 <TrueBrain> how did this work before?! 😛
22:00:12 <glx[d]> well I checked only gcc, clang have other flags for releases
22:00:15 <TrueBrain> Just look at that line .. just look at it!
22:00:49 <dP> petern: I need the "center" here, not on the vehicle
22:01:43 <glx[d]> I guess I should try to build with clang
22:02:40 <glx[d]> (when mingw will be done with linking)
22:03:11 <dP> petern: you make no sense, there is no vehicle so there is no center
22:03:22 <dP> I want to know how it calculates the point where it draws the sprite
22:03:39 <petern> There is a sprite. There is a centre of it.
22:04:18 <dP> petern: so it takes sprite width and height and divides by 2?
22:04:31 <petern> No, you do when you provide the offsets.
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22:04:38 <TrueBrain> glx[d]: would you mind reviewing the PR? I reworded the README a bit, mostly curious if you agree with that 🙂 (and yes, commit checker fails, but we fix that while squashing)
22:04:48 <dP> offsets are added to the point where it is drawn
22:04:52 <dP> but you need the point to draw
22:05:28 <petern> Excuse the freehand :p
22:05:34 <petern> That is where the sprite is drawn.
22:05:40 <petern> (Except for the dual-head)
22:05:49 <dP> well, yeah, but how does it calculate that?
22:07:23 <dP> dP: and that's exactly what I asked about :p
22:09:21 <petern> But it's totally unimportant.
22:11:23 <dP> until you end up with this :p
22:13:14 <petern> So not the centre of it...
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22:16:21 <andythenorth> lol ffwd is stuck on
22:17:54 <petern> andythenorth: after the fix? 😄
22:18:08 <andythenorth> it's a recent build 😛
22:18:39 <petern> I've noticed the goal window popups and fucks things around too.
22:19:31 <glx[d]> and clang in VS is not annoying at all, 1 `argument unused during compilation: '/d2ssa-rse-' [-Wunused-command-line-argument]` per compiled file
22:20:00 <glx[d]> it's the clang bug workaround
22:21:25 <glx[d]> at least I now get the warning you reported (hidden in the middle of useless ones)
22:29:59 <supermop_Home> is there an example nml station somewhere?
22:31:13 <dP> hm, there also seems to be some limit to how wide purchase sprite can be
22:41:07 <supermop_Home> i assume the station items are item(FEAT_STATIONS, …..)?
22:41:17 <supermop_Home> or is it FEAT_STATION ?
22:41:28 <glx[d]> supermop_Home: there is one in examples directory
22:41:51 <supermop_Home> glx[d] there is an examples directory?
22:42:37 <Johan> Hope you can maybe help, where could i download Blender template
22:43:24 <Johan> don't hope it a stupid question
22:47:40 <Johan> there use to be a F template which was to be used when creating new assets in blender
22:48:15 <Johan> but maybe all of this has changed
22:50:08 <Johan> Maybe I'm asking a to open ended question, but i would want to play with 32bpp assets in openttd
22:52:06 <andythenorth> buy random variant button?
22:52:11 <andythenorth> goes it redo buy menu?
22:52:18 <andythenorth> the JGRPP one is better IMO
22:52:26 <andythenorth> "other opinions may exist"
22:52:26 <Johan> I sort of feel like ive walked into the club house and asked to become a member but if not read all the rules
22:53:11 <andythenorth> petern: button for 'show only variants'? 🙂
22:53:42 <glx[d]> most people don't use blender for that Johan
22:54:27 <andythenorth> shall I do 'buy a random variant' in grf?
22:54:46 <andythenorth> the random vehicles have their own ID though
22:54:50 <andythenorth> maybe that's good
22:54:53 <petern> There is some stuff about blender and templates there. No idea if the links still work.
22:55:37 <glx[d]> I guess most links point to ottdcoop
22:55:44 <andythenorth> dice roll trains, but also for each set of variants
22:56:10 <andythenorth> Growler (Diesel) - Randomised
22:56:34 <andythenorth> might code that tomorrow 🙂
22:57:48 <Johan> glx[d]: but thanks for the help, I just enjoy blender and was looking into how i could contribute to openttd, I guess back to https://www.tt-forums.net/ and do some more reading ;-)
23:00:03 <dP> hm, in 13.0 it seems to draw vehicle sprites more to the right
23:00:20 <dP> oh, variant thing space probably
23:00:26 <petern> Yes, there is extra space for that little icon.
23:00:34 <supermop_Home> sorry glx[d] but bit of cargo cult brain … the example has the sprite layouts with <layout_name>(a) when they are defined, but then when the layout is called in the callbacks it is <layout_name>(0)
23:00:43 <petern> Potentially that could be removed if no variants are present, but I didn't bother.
23:00:59 <Pruple> I hadn't noticed, but now you mention it
23:01:03 <andythenorth> oh I crashed the game 😮
23:01:13 <Pruple> it's good, not having the sprites pushed right up against the side 🙂
23:01:30 <supermop_Home> does the a/0 in the parentheses mean something i'm not getting? like does it refer to the tile type?
23:01:56 <dP> petern: yeah, it already calculates all the dimensions anyway, can just save variant usage as well
23:02:05 <glx[d]> it's a procedure, and in this case it's to work around an openttd mechanism
23:02:08 <dP> otherwise it's a bit weird there is unused space
23:02:25 <supermop_Home> so i should leave it in?
23:02:54 <andythenorth> says it wrote to disk, but I don't see it
23:03:50 <andythenorth> probably not very interesting
23:04:14 <dP> dP: I already happily shifted purchase sprite there before I realized what it is for xD
23:07:32 <petern> Adding extra crap to purchase list sprites is a misfeature.
23:08:01 <petern> The only use for a separate purchase list sprite is to make articulated engines be more representative.
23:10:41 <JGR> If you add a feature to the spec you can;t be upset if people actually use it
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23:12:38 <petern> Expressing an opinion does not mean I'm upset 🙂
23:14:47 <andythenorth> I don't have enough trains in this game to really use enough variants 😛
23:14:59 <andythenorth> 78 trains, but Horse has 150 engines
23:15:09 <andythenorth> and now has about 300 variants 😛
23:15:45 <andythenorth> I guess I could just repeat each decade
23:16:24 <dP> people wouldn't abuse features if there was a legitimate way to do what they want ;p
23:16:30 <supermop_Home> glx[d] so that is specific to non-track tiles?
23:16:46 <andythenorth> dP: perfect API is mythical 😛
23:17:40 <petern> Ah, grouping is by orders, not engine type.
23:19:35 <glx[d]> but it's stupidly complex
23:20:02 <glx[d]> original NFO was less silly
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23:20:04 <petern> Why do you need to avoid the rail-type specific tile?
23:20:21 <dP> oh, the joys of having my own compiler... it doesn't order sprite chains correctly xD
23:21:02 <glx[d]> because a fixed empty ground tile sprite, and you don't want it being different with a different railtype
23:21:38 <supermop_Home> i'm just trying to recreate the default station to start
23:21:47 <glx[d]> for ground by default 82 is added to the sprite for monorail and 164 for maglev
23:22:15 <petern> But a normal station tile needs the railtype specific ground tile...
23:22:15 <glx[d]> ah you can ignore the workaround in your case supermop
23:23:25 <supermop_Home> so a basic platform with types 0 and 2 on a 1*X station, and types 0, 4, and 6 on a 2*X station
23:23:27 <glx[d]> remove the parameter in spritelayout definition
23:24:18 <supermop_Home> doesn't have to be exactly like the default station for now, and once i get it working i will add some non-track tiles
23:24:40 <supermop_Home> but trying to get my head around the assignment of tile types
23:29:29 <andythenorth> I feel these boats might need work 😛
23:32:55 <andythenorth> I believe boats don't avoid each other 😛
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23:37:40 <imlegos> Yeah, boats have no collision with each other
23:39:08 <andythenorth> could we tally how much of each cargo type is transported annually?
23:39:39 <andythenorth> or I could write a GS to track it maybe 🙂
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23:45:45 <dP> andythenorth: like this? :p
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23:53:44 <supermop_Home> so select_tile_type just seems to be you tell it 0, 2, 4, or 6... it doesn't seem to pick? i need to use tile_check for that?
23:54:34 <supermop_Home> or can i call some other switch there than operates on the tile location and gives it the number
continue to next day ⏵
