IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-24
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09:29:36 <andythenorth> Horse now only has about 6k duplicate action 1s
11:03:35 <petern> Opengfx small font is the problem
11:03:50 <petern> TTD small font is perfectly legible
11:16:05 <andythenorth> opengfx font is objectively shit
11:16:38 <andythenorth> I think the current maintainer isn't a slackjaw though and won't fix
11:18:01 <FLHerne> the small font is bad
11:18:14 <FLHerne> I quite like OGFX standard font :p
11:20:05 <dP> why are reactions not working in discussions? is that a github bug?
11:20:39 <dP> anyway, no matter how good the font is, one size can't fit all
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11:56:32 <petern> We should add a gui, but the command is a reasonable intermediate step, considering timing
11:56:52 <LordAro> dP: can't react to locked discussions
12:01:20 <dP> LordAro: oh, lol. github could use a better error message xD
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12:15:58 <petern> ChatGPT: Mansplaining As A Service
12:24:10 <dP> my first attempt at making sprites with stable diffusion went hilariously wrong xD
12:32:25 <petern> Maybe for text we should have separate font height and line height.
12:32:56 <petern> Would be quite an effort to do though
12:34:46 <petern> Also, I guess the NewGRF docs need updating for the flipping stuff.,
12:38:08 <andythenorth> I'll update the values now
12:41:17 <andythenorth> can RVs be flipped?
12:44:52 <andythenorth> ok spec status should be accurate now
12:49:02 <Rubidium> I thought trains flipped RVs ;)
12:54:25 <petern> How many sprites and MB is Iron Horse now?
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12:57:53 <andythenorth> dunno how many sprites, but 20MB
12:58:36 <petern> Good compression algorithm
13:00:28 <andythenorth> and 15% faster compile
13:01:59 <andythenorth> where is the Variants multiplayer game at?
13:02:03 <andythenorth> where is server at?
13:02:17 <andythenorth> I have 10 MB upload here, with 4 kids trying to play roblox on it
13:02:23 <andythenorth> so server is not me
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13:30:34 <andythenorth> ok I did a note on NML page ^
13:31:52 <andythenorth> repeat bit 3 row for different OpenTTD versions
13:34:38 <andythenorth> ach I'll just yolo something
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13:44:17 <petern> Not exactly, if the flag is present then the old manual newgrf flipping behaviour is used.
13:46:12 <andythenorth> it's a dog's dinner of trying to explain, and my patience with wiki format expired 😄
13:46:28 <andythenorth> the whole point is now 'forget about it'
13:46:45 <andythenorth> tempted to rewrite as 'nothing to see here'
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16:50:41 <dP> is there any good way to check exact introduction date of the newgrf vehicle?
16:53:39 <andythenorth> know it in the compile?
16:54:02 <andythenorth> might not be a helpful answer sorry 😐
16:54:30 <dP> I have it decompiled but I wanted to see if I did that right xD
16:56:28 <JGR> Instrumenting the relevant bit of newgrf.cpp or whatever is probably the lowest effort way to get it
16:57:28 <dP> actually, I should just decompile the grf I have sources for xD
16:58:32 <FLHerne> I love it when the only way to do something trivial is absurdly complicated
16:58:39 <FLHerne> it seems to happen with ottd stuff a lot
17:01:05 <JGR> There introduction date before randomisation is pretty useless information under normal circumstances
17:02:07 <andythenorth> if only someone was writing a general purpose grf decompiler in a commonly used language 😛
17:04:05 <FLHerne> is anyone doing that?
17:04:13 <FLHerne> I still need to look at that
17:26:27 <LordAro> petern: has #8062 been fixed?
17:29:18 <LordAro> (i had an issue search for "font" due to Zorg's earlier thing)
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18:00:47 <FLHerne> Does the NML road vehicle example grf work for anyone else?
18:01:00 <FLHerne> I see dbg: [grf] LoadNewGRFFile: Reading NewGRF-file 'example_road_vehicle.grf'
18:01:17 <FLHerne> but it doesn't appear in the list of grfs in config
18:01:31 <FLHerne> (without any obvious errors around ^)
18:08:53 <FLHerne> it's definitely in the right dir, openttd says it's loaded
18:09:16 <FLHerne> I'm using unmodified openttd 12.2 and current nml master
18:17:31 <petern> What's a suitable SetDParam for getting possible currency width, considering currency can be huge but in many cases isn't.
18:22:59 <FLHerne> The example train grf is displayed and loads ok, roadtype/tramtype loads but has no effect but that might be because no compatible vehicles
18:23:18 <FLHerne> should roadtypes without a compatible vehicle be shown but greyed out, like railtypes?
18:23:34 <andythenorth> it's quite plausible that the RV example just doesn't work
18:23:38 <FLHerne> then possibly it isn't working properly
18:23:58 <FLHerne> oh yeah, I should have pinged you first, you wrote the thing :p
18:25:53 <FLHerne> I can't see why it shouldn't, though
18:26:17 <FLHerne> the roadtype and road_vehicle examples build fine in nml, have the right number of items, etc
18:33:03 <andythenorth> did I write it? 🙂 oops
18:36:38 <andythenorth> I just built it and installed
18:40:28 <petern> Hmm, blank currency separator doesn't work.
18:43:09 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:04:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: what NML do you have?
19:04:51 <andythenorth> slightly patched, but version 3.8.12 (9ef55f6fc369, Oct 25 2021, 05:10:01)
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19:05:36 <FLHerne> that doesn't sound like an NML version?
19:06:16 <andythenorth> wait no, I misread nmlc --version sorry
19:06:30 <andythenorth> that's the pypy version 😛
19:06:33 <andythenorth> nmlc 0.7.0.post20221211+variants.le.vehicules.g542af38
19:18:00 <FLHerne> (sorry, Christmas keeps inflicting itself on me...)
19:27:38 <Wolf01> Good, 2 days of depression incoming, and I can't even drown it in alcohol
19:31:25 <FLHerne> hm, I deleted all of ~/.openttd/newgrf and content_download/newgrf and that made the RV example appear
19:31:47 <FLHerne> I'm wondering if some part of my vast collection of random crap was shadowing it somehow
19:32:18 <FLHerne> the example roadtypes still aren't visible in-game though
19:33:43 <andythenorth> I get 'red electric road'
19:34:14 <andythenorth> I didn't rebuild that grf from scratch though
19:36:04 <FLHerne> oh wait, I'm an idiot
19:37:58 <FLHerne> (a) I had example railtypes loaded and thought it was roadtypes (b) example roadtypes now fails to appear in the grf list
19:38:16 <andythenorth> is the grf ID overlapping with another?
19:45:29 <FLHerne> right, so I deleted all of ~/.openttd, and rebuilt and reinstalled nml and then built and installed the examples and nothing else, and it works
19:45:48 <FLHerne> so I guess the answer is either "yes" or "it was screwed up in some other way" :p
19:51:35 <andythenorth> stuff and things 🙂
20:03:15 <petern> Not quite the fun NewGRF stuff eh?
20:03:25 <petern> Shall I do all my other interface scaling fixes?
20:04:49 <andythenorth> definitely improves the game
20:04:55 <andythenorth> lot of rough edges getting fixed
20:07:48 <petern> And the reversing thing lol
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20:17:44 <petern> I dunno, I go away for years, come back and start making intrusive changes everywhere...
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20:31:13 <petern> Thanks for the full recompile cmake 😦
20:33:48 * petern testing changes, after approval, again. SIgh.
20:35:53 <andythenorth> such bureaucracy 🙂
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21:31:07 <petern> Did I not notice #10231?
21:31:40 <petern> I mean, I did, that's where I got the original test GRF, but I totally forgot, and it's still open :p
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21:46:12 <FLHerne> so I was trying to implement the extra oneway arrow slopes
21:46:34 <FLHerne> but I got sidetracked and implemented Zorg's suggestion of making them custom by roadtype instead
21:46:42 <FLHerne> the extra slopes are still broken :p
21:46:56 <FLHerne> I really don't understand sprite offsets when slopes are involved
21:56:34 <FLHerne> but at least now I can play with them in a normal newgrf and not a baseset
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22:11:58 <petern> For ground tiles, sprite offsets are normally the bottom far corner of a tile.
22:13:08 <petern> For oneway sprites I'm not sure.
22:17:25 <FLHerne> Is compatibility with older basesets important?
22:17:40 <FLHerne> or do the new sprites just get added to orig_extra.grf or whatever it's called
22:22:30 <FLHerne> tangentially, I'm confused by bridge_offset ('cargotype' 06)
22:22:55 <FLHerne> as far as I can tell, the example grf specifies them to be red sprites for all its roadtypes
22:23:40 <FLHerne> but the bridge surfaces are coloured properly yellow/green, so I don't understand what it's being used for
22:34:17 <FLHerne> *bridge_surfaces, third time's the charm
22:38:21 <petern> Bridges have colours remapped if that's what you mean?
22:38:31 <petern> A bit like company colour remaps but the remaps are different.
22:41:49 <FLHerne> I don't think that's what I mean
22:44:22 <FLHerne> bridge_underlay is used for all road colours, but is always from roads_red.png
22:44:56 <FLHerne> in the example, the different roadtypes are very brightly-coloured
22:45:07 <FLHerne> the yellow road is yellow and so on :p
22:46:01 <FLHerne> it works, but yellow-road bridges have a yellow road surface
22:46:24 <andythenorth> the examples might well be wrong
22:46:30 <andythenorth> I wrote them as the original test grf for NRT
22:46:38 <andythenorth> they might be behind the actual spec
22:46:40 <FLHerne> which means I can't see where the bridge_surfaces / Act3 06 sprites are actually used
22:47:20 <FLHerne> because they're all red which ought to stand out
22:48:04 <petern> Try building trams on it.
22:48:07 <FLHerne> andythenorth: well, compared to the spec as documented it seems right
22:48:46 <petern> Okay, the road overlay is drawn on top of the underlay.
22:49:27 <FLHerne> for things like dirt tracks
22:49:52 <FLHerne> and so in this case it's invisible because the overlay has no transparency in the relevant area?
22:50:02 <petern> Exactly. (No, I have no idea why there is an underlay and an overlay and :P)
22:50:17 <FLHerne> you only wrote the feature, why would you know :D
22:51:20 <FLHerne> is there a way to test whether the current baseset has a certain sprite?
22:51:33 <FLHerne> I guess there must be
22:51:39 <FLHerne> is it sane to do that? :p
22:54:28 <andythenorth> peter just fixed it 😛
22:55:50 <petern> Actually I ripped out a lot of stuff to do with packing road and tram type together into one identifier.
22:55:59 <petern> So it's possible I broke bits.
22:57:13 <andythenorth> but I don't think the full spec has really been used yet
22:57:41 <petern> Mostly what happens is people load 500 road types at once and then complain that the scrollbar has been removed.
22:57:53 <FLHerne> petern: I think it makes sense, the example is just stupid
22:58:01 <FLHerne> a lot of NML examples are like that
22:58:39 <andythenorth> I did try to improve some of them
22:58:43 <andythenorth> but I had attention span issues
22:59:03 <andythenorth> hmm I broke something in my magic
22:59:20 <petern> Am I going to end up rewriting viewport signs?
22:59:31 <andythenorth> so it might be you
22:59:51 <andythenorth> oh only the buy menu sprite is broken
22:59:58 <petern> You know town small-font signs have a shadow?
23:00:16 <FLHerne> yeah, I think I changed the industry example to at least not literally crash the game
23:00:50 * FLHerne self-bikeshedding over which order the arrows should be in :p
23:01:00 <petern> That's a normal-font sign.
23:01:03 <FLHerne> slope-first or arrow-type first?
23:01:21 <petern> Bonus points if it crops it.
23:03:13 <petern> Anyway, the trick is that only FS_NORMAL has a shadow.
23:03:34 <petern> So that shadow is drawn as another string.
23:04:07 <petern> But not by the viewport sign drawer. It's added as two viewport signs to draw, one black and one white.
23:04:16 <petern> And so there are two strings for it.
23:04:24 <petern> Am I going to end up rewriting viewport signs?
23:06:06 <petern> I think it's "original" code.
23:07:11 <petern> So the old DrawString routine automatically draws a shadow to truetype fonts, and I remember arguing that it wasn't really inefficient as all the string processing is only done once.
23:07:17 <petern> Well, that doesn't apply here...
23:07:41 <FLHerne> I love that the first notable thing I've seen on Christmas Day is...that
23:09:52 <FLHerne> but the weather is nicer here
23:20:37 <petern> Somewhat. At least it didn't rain yesterday.
23:23:25 <petern> (Also that shadow is drawn in viewport coordinates, not screen coordinates)
23:46:54 <FLHerne> I love TripAdvisor reviews
23:47:24 <FLHerne> went up Los Reales today, it's a bit higher than Ben Nevis but you can drive to vaguely near the summit
23:47:51 <FLHerne> never mind that you can see the next bloody continent, there are 1-star reviews that it's cold and there isn't a restaurant
23:48:23 <Olionkey> no starbuck so why drive up it
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