IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-13
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02:00:42 <reldred> Man, I’m really pumped about how much stuff is in the pipeline or released lately.
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05:54:48 <TROILUS> Hi all, How to bridge irc to ingame chat?
07:12:01 <andythenorth> this is annoying
07:12:20 <andythenorth> nearly 3 full years since I caught OG 2020 edition COVID
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07:24:19 <TROILUS> debdog thanks, I will try.
07:32:38 <reldred> andythenorth: oh dear
07:32:58 <reldred> look at all that time you'll have to work on openttd
07:33:41 <reldred> providing it doesn't rough you up
08:13:48 <reldred> we've had a mixed bag on our end
08:13:59 <reldred> some people have been positive but otherwise fine for the two weeks
08:14:16 <reldred> some have had rather unpleasant times.
08:14:34 <reldred> I've *somehow* avoided it
08:17:00 <andythenorth> I had v1 covid Jan 29th 2020
08:21:48 <andythenorth> lost my words for a month or so
08:23:39 <LordAro> i feel like if you got it that early you'd have been on the news
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08:48:47 <petern> Many people think they had it early. There were no tests so we don't know, and the official line was still that it was just a few people in China.
08:51:05 <petern> reldred: Imagine if people still made patches
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08:53:15 <JustANortherner> andythenorth: Whoops
08:53:31 <JustANortherner> Still not had Covid to the best of my knowledge
08:58:09 <JustANortherner> Tbf, how do you even get Covid? I've spent time in stupidly crowded places amongst people who have no concept of manners, personal space or hygiene, and still don't seem to have got it...
08:58:58 <petern> Hmm, putting a CI in a separate private network from the repo probably isn't going to work. Pom te pom.
09:05:22 <TROILUS> I haven't beI'm not infected yet
09:19:09 <petern> Urgh, why am I failing at certbot :/
09:23:40 <kamnet> JustANortherner: By chance, do you smoke or use recreational drugs? You don't have to answer that, but a study that came out a few months ago looks like there is a link between smoking.drugs and not getting COVID. It looks like both the virus and the drugs effectively compete against each other for access to ACE-2 receptors in our cells. The omnipresence of the drugs means that the virus has fewer opportunities to hook into the body be
09:23:40 <kamnet> in and start attacking the virus.
09:24:14 <JustANortherner> kamnet: Don't smoke, and if I did recreational drugs, I'd get fired 😂
09:25:48 <petern> > Congratulations! Your certificate and chain have been saved
09:30:39 <kamnet> In other news, I finally got motivation to break out a game of OpenTTD, I made $1.5m in my first two years and I no longer have motivation to finish the game. 😢
09:32:17 <kamnet> And I just now realized just how out of scale Japan Set buildings are with other things.
09:35:46 <EmperorJake> JapanSet buildings doesn't even scale with itself
09:36:16 <EmperorJake> I mixed it with Korean and NK buildings for even more scale shenanigans
09:45:45 <petern> Yay, I now have my own self-hosted CI that I can use to fail all my PRs that nobody else looks at.
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10:35:25 <andythenorth> is it time for PeterPP?
10:43:26 <petern> In fact we need to make vanilla the primary patching target again.
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11:33:20 <dP> nice goal, but I don't see how are you going to achieve that
11:33:35 <dP> big patchpacks seem to just be pulling further and further
11:38:00 <JGR> Still, it would make sense for more core/uncontroversial stuff to be upstreamed
11:38:56 <dP> uncontroversial stuff exists? 😜
11:39:37 <LordAro> the trouble is a) finding the uncontroversial stuff & b) unpicking it from whatever patchpack it's currently in
11:42:48 <andythenorth> some of it's easy
11:43:10 <andythenorth> a lot of JGRPP stuff wouldn't be a candidate, because JGRPP exists for that audience
11:43:47 <andythenorth> - multiple railtypes on one tile
11:47:25 <JGR> I'm not sure that those are "uncontroversial"
11:47:32 <dP> wonder how through load would affect goal games
11:47:52 <dP> probably not much though considering reversing exploit exists xD
11:48:31 <andythenorth> through load might be controversial
11:48:38 <andythenorth> autoseparate is not
11:48:57 <JGR> The actual details of how it works are
11:49:09 <JGR> It's an ultra bikeshedding zone
11:49:34 <andythenorth> well the current vanilla implementation is stupid and at least partially broken
11:49:44 <andythenorth> although some users report it definitely works
11:49:57 <andythenorth> might be a case of 'Y is better than X'
11:50:02 <andythenorth> even if not perfect
11:53:15 <petern> LordAro: That's why we need to be the target
11:54:05 <petern> andythenorth: When long time developers need to ask how to do it...
11:54:08 <LordAro> how do you suppose we do that? :p
11:54:42 <petern> Easy, pretend jgrpp doesn't exist ;D
11:57:03 <petern> Hmm, I need to figure out how to deploy my custom private nuget packages properly, and then how to restore them into my custom private builds properly.
11:57:18 <petern> Maybe I should use git sub-modules instead.
11:58:02 <andythenorth> I did propose some while ago that JGRPP became the upstream 😛
11:58:11 <andythenorth> JGR thought that was silly
11:58:39 <petern> If OpenTTD itself was dead then maybe it would make sense.
11:59:01 <andythenorth> but it's healthier than it has been for a long time IMHO
11:59:49 <JGR> The design goals of OpenTTD include sticking to the philosophy of the original game, or some words to that effect
12:00:23 <JGR> A lot of new stuff that is being developed does not fit into that
12:00:52 <JGR> Naturally it will end up elsewhere
12:01:22 <reldred> ConservativeTTD vs RadicalTTD
12:01:56 <JGR> The majority of the player base is quite happy with a conservative OpenTTD
12:02:21 <reldred> Someone has to be wrong for someone to be right 😛
12:02:28 <glx[d]> Some quality of life changes are welcome of course
12:03:00 <reldred> Nah. Ultimately I’m pretty happy with how things are ticking along atm.
12:03:32 <reldred> I know I’ve been a harsh critic in the past but I’m pleased with the current situation.
12:03:47 <reldred> Or at least, the current trend
12:08:33 <petern> I should probably just play the game at some point.
12:10:03 <FLHerne> multiple rail types on one tile <- please
12:10:18 <FLHerne> that one can't be controversial, just annoying to implement
12:10:25 <reldred> Next JGRPP release I might able to actually play it, until I feel guilty I have worked on/released the next thing I’ve committed myself to.
12:10:39 <FLHerne> it makes some of my lines look so ugly :-(
12:10:59 <reldred> I’ll be happy once newrocks is out the door,
12:11:52 <petern> newrocks in vanilla when?
12:12:37 <reldred> More a goth thing really
12:17:56 <andythenorth> FLHerne: there's an issue about it
12:19:28 <andythenorth> not quite the same thing actually but eh
12:43:36 <petern> Hmm, okay so Drone/Woodpecker need explicit instructions on where to put artifacts, so I need a separate artifact server. </learning CI>
12:52:28 <andythenorth> so I can remove most of the 93k duplicate action 1s in Horse?
12:52:54 <andythenorth> then add some back for stupid things
12:56:06 <petern> There's only so many asymmetric engines right?
13:00:44 <andythenorth> cargo sprites on wagons
13:01:06 <andythenorth> they're not even asymmetric, but flipping inverts the company colour 😛
13:01:13 <andythenorth> such use of resources
13:05:41 <petern> Oh so they're not duplicates.
13:08:11 <andythenorth> it's recolour sprites, so they're 100% pointless duplicates 😛
13:08:26 <andythenorth> except ya know....the instructions to work around flipping 😛
13:08:51 <andythenorth> hmm variants for inverting company colour? 😛
13:11:09 <petern> If they're 8/8 wagons you can at least not dup the sprites.
13:11:28 <petern> Probably easier to wait and see if the offset handling can work 😄
13:12:58 <andythenorth> 8/8 has special handling in the compile
13:13:11 <andythenorth> cargo subtype variants
13:13:15 <andythenorth> but what even is?
13:13:27 <andythenorth> variant painter 😛
13:13:32 <andythenorth> paint a train into another train
13:24:58 <petern> Probably involves a state machine.
13:25:16 <petern> Sucks that HTML input patterns cannot be case-insensitive.
13:53:53 <petern> Pruple: Didn't you need level crossing enhancements? Might be worth an issue.
13:54:37 <Pruple> if I request a feature, I might have to draw things
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14:01:20 <Pruple> In short: it would be nice to be able to have different crossing graphics for different road types. The obvious place to start is var 42, but that's currently useless because it doesn't differentiate between an open crossing and a non-crossing. Also, especially with the new close-adjacent-crossings feature, it would be nice to be able to detect if the neighbouring tiles are also crossings.
14:01:20 <Pruple> But I'm not sure how to make that a bug report. 🙂
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14:05:36 <Pruple> I suppose the fix is not to modify how var 42 works, but to allow roadtypes to provide an action 3 07 Level crossing sprites 🙂
14:06:57 <Pruple> with a road overlay rather than a rail overlay. then we're back to the old "who wins if rail, road and tram all want to provide crossing sprites?"
14:07:02 <petern> Nothing magic about var42.
14:07:47 <petern> Splitting the flags for islevelcrossing and iscrossingbarred seems obvious
14:08:23 <petern> I'm not sure how the new multiple crossings work, but it be easy to include flags for that too.
14:10:40 <petern> I wonder if we can have "build callbacks"
14:11:15 <petern> Game executes a callback after construction, and that can... set a flag on the tile.
14:11:44 <petern> Then you can have complex decisions set once on creation instead of every time the tile is drawn.
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14:12:08 <petern> Not sure what decisions need to be made right now
14:21:54 <andythenorth> industries have a post-construction callback...
14:28:48 <petern> When everything is chunky 1x sprites are tiny.
14:29:06 <petern> Maybe we need 8x extra zoom.
14:29:57 <petern> But only the original number of towns/industries
14:31:53 <petern> Each tile is actually 1 metre, so the map is 64 km. A standard carriage is about 20 tiles long., and 3 tiles wide.
14:32:11 <petern> Scale sounds like Minecraft...
15:19:40 <petern> Someone should upload a version using *that* GRF ID range, and attribute it to *that* author...
15:20:04 <petern> Ah no, that's a stupid idea 🙂
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15:58:58 <pickpacket> I'll be updating my NewGRF when I get around to it. Do I upload a newer version and let the old one be in the repo?
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16:34:59 <TallTyler> Repo meaning a GitHub repo? The whole idea of version control is that the old version is still available, so you just update it
16:36:09 <TallTyler> I think my wide rivers fix is ready to PR, but I don’t have internet in my new apartment yet so I need to walk to the library to use the WiFi. I went earlier but they weren’t open yet. This is truly the most inefficient workflow.
16:36:28 <TallTyler> At least I got a funicular ride out of it though
16:41:52 <glx[d]> Maybe expensive mobile data on the other side of the ocean
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17:07:01 <TallTyler> My desktop doesn’t have a WiFi card 🥲
17:07:28 <TallTyler> And nowhere near me sells computer parts, even Amazon wouldn’t get here before real internet does on Friday
17:08:54 <TallTyler> LordAro: Who isn’t me? Existential crisis time? 😛
17:09:44 <petern> I'm used to Amazon being next day.
17:12:34 <dP> TallTyler: you can share internet from the phone via usb tethering
17:19:51 <TallTyler> Hmm, I never installed drivers for my phone so it doesn’t work 😦
17:22:21 <TallTyler> Off to the library again!
17:31:48 <dP> I don't think it needs any specific drivers even on windows
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18:02:03 <dP> after 7+ years of running servers I finally implemented the `!ban` command xD
18:08:34 <petern> Hmm, I wonder where to make my CI publish... :/
18:43:32 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:57:18 <petern> TallTyler: Have you gone to the library to publish a PR?!
19:00:10 <TallTyler> I am literally editing a text file on my ancient MacBook
19:00:17 <TallTyler> Which doesn’t have an IDE
19:00:34 <TallTyler> I can’t even rebase that commit to add the #
19:00:47 <TallTyler> Because it wants me to do it in Terminal
19:00:53 <TallTyler> And I can’t figure out the commands
19:01:08 <TallTyler> We need to ship soon, and I created this bug
19:01:39 <TallTyler> I can’t rebase, so someone else can do it for me, I can do it Friday when I get internet, or we can squash while merging
19:01:46 <TallTyler> Someone else’s call 🙂
19:02:10 <TallTyler> Time for me to go home
19:51:59 <pickpacket> TallTyler, petern: yeah, Bananas
19:52:07 <pickpacket> Sorry for slow answer
19:54:50 <pickpacket> I'm thinking about upping the production on my tea tree farms. I have one game running where I've been able to boost one farm up to 1000+ production, though it took forty years and no other farm is even close. Another game I have has been running for almost 30 years and I've still been unable to boost even a single farm up to even 200. All the
19:54:50 <pickpacket> farms have excellent station ratings, but the highest producing is sort of just oscillating between 120-something and 172.
19:55:14 <pickpacket> It feels like it must be an incredible statistical anomaly that *no* farm is doing well
19:55:44 <pickpacket> one issue though is that only one or two farms were even producing above 100 at the start of the game
19:57:08 <pickpacket> meanwhile if I get a perfect station rating at an oil platform the production yeets into the stratosphere
20:27:33 <michi_cc[d]> See, commit message now proper 🙂
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22:14:28 <andythenorth> nuclear fusion -> slow news day
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22:19:01 <pickpacket> andythenorth: yup. Russia losing another 500 soldiers in one day isn’t even news anymore. It’s just a regular Monday
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23:15:59 <petern> Did I forget to stop working?
23:26:31 <glx[d]> so yeah better keep old behaviour as fallback
23:36:30 <glx[d]> I can see a need for custom entrances, but maybe only for roads, trams can use default entrance if no road, but adding/removing road to the tunnel would upgrade/downgrade the entrance
23:37:45 <glx[d]> mixed types is complicated 🙂
23:49:36 <Pruple> it strikes me that all we need to do to fix the mixed type problems is decide on a standard and stick to it 😛
23:49:36 <Pruple> eg, if road and tram can both specify graphics for a tunnel entrance, prefer the road graphics on a mixed tile.
23:49:36 <Pruple> if road, tram and rail all specify graphics for level crossings, layer the road, tram, and rail overlays, then prefer the road, tram and rail graphics for gates, in that order.
continue to next day ⏵
