IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-12
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01:35:46 <petern> Cool, default ground tiles are -124, not -128.
01:36:23 <Pruple> everything in most base sets and newgrfs is shifted one px to the right 🙂
01:37:06 <Pruple> I fix it in my newgrfs
01:37:25 <Pruple> which is why most train grfs don't quite line up with the notbase tracks 😉
01:45:39 <petern> Offsets eh? What a can of worms.
01:50:14 <petern> So everyone modelled their shorter vehicle offsets of the MJS 250, which is an 8/8 vehicle but only half filled
01:51:01 <Pruple> yes, offsets are going to depend on template
01:51:58 <Pruple> and again, I fix it in my UKRS3 workflow... I draw everything on an 8/8 template and shorten vehicles at the back, the offsets stay the same. 🙂
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01:55:19 <Pruple> moving to 32bpp / ez was really good, I got to throw out all the bad newgrf habits and start from scratch
01:59:36 <petern> UKRS3 offsets are all weird too
02:00:25 <Pruple> after compiling, sure, because the sprites get cut to size
02:03:26 <Pruple> before compiling, each vertical sprite, each horizontal sprite, and each diagonal sprite has the same offsets, regardless of vehicle length or direction.
02:04:55 <petern> That's how UKRS3 solves it 😉
02:05:37 <Pruple> you can reverse all the non-articulated locos
02:06:25 <Pruple> you can't reverse shortened wagons because there'd be no point and it would add unnecessary sprites, they'd look the same
02:08:33 <petern> Hmm, your vertical sprites look too long
02:08:59 <petern> Probanly the stretching bollocks 😄
02:10:13 <Pruple> they're dimensonally correct against the horizontal sprites, eg a line 16px long horizontal will be 8px high vertical
02:10:21 <Pruple> but the diagonals are squashed, as always
02:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i first noticed this with the earky post wagons in DBSetXL
02:15:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea when this was. but i'm fairly sure that was the reason why it ultimately was disabling reversing for shortened vehicles
02:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ... who even wrote the reversing patch?
02:26:54 <Pruple> but yeah, the 1px to the right thing was a bugger for offsets, because it meant nothing was quite symmetrical
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04:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> <petern> For horizontal or vertical, it's the centre. <-- i think that's just because the bounding box corner happens to be at the center (x-coordinate), however, the y coordinate is still offset. (which might be the origin of the weird depot y-offset
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06:16:45 <Pruple> some interesting river generation 🙂
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08:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Eddi has explained to me at least twice why we can't reverse articulated engines <-- mainly it's because you have to also reorder the articulated parts
08:19:58 <andythenorth> reverse the array and copy properties?
08:20:21 <andythenorth> but then grf code might be expecting certain IDs or other vars?
08:20:25 <reldred> Mmmmm, got my 5800X3D installed
08:20:43 <reldred> now lets just play openttd
08:21:11 <reldred> I really need to make that newrocks .grf
08:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it involves weird pointer reattaching, because trains are a linked list, not an array
08:25:25 <andythenorth> let's rebuild everything 😛
08:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch probably made a plan for that
08:26:51 <reldred> mmm, bitmap font with chunky bevels looks better
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08:49:16 <EmperorJake> reldred: I'm thinking of upgrading to one of those, how does it perform in ottd? I'd be curious how it compares to the M2
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08:54:02 <reldred> Dunno. None of my saves stressed my 3600x
08:54:12 <reldred> I bought the 5800X3D for other nonsense.
09:09:27 <andythenorth> do max ffwd on Wentbourne 😛
09:10:51 <andythenorth> ok maybe I can make variants all use a shared action 2 / 1 chain
09:11:03 <andythenorth> why are action 1s bad again?
09:38:33 <petern> There was one patch that allowed a train's engine to be anywhere in the consist, not just the front.
09:58:20 <Pruple> nothing worse than improper snow
10:09:35 <FLHerne> today is a lot milder than yesterday here
10:09:59 <FLHerne> the canal is thawing a bit
10:10:30 <andythenorth> Pruple: improper snow angels?
10:10:37 <andythenorth> improper yellow snow?
10:10:55 <FLHerne> [dog barking warning]
10:19:19 <TallTyler> Pruple: I’m going to work on fixing this today, although I won’t be able to open a PR until I get internet service connected at my new apartment. 🫤
10:34:00 <reldred> oh no i spent all night grfing and didnt eat dinner
10:35:48 <reldred> fortunately, it is not quite that late
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11:19:54 <petern> Mouse wheel sprite aligner: Zoom or adjust offsets?
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12:16:21 <petern> Probably. We'd have to implement shift-scroll for horizontal adjustment, and that would break our commitment to estimate costs 😄
12:17:01 <LordAro> i think i'm ok with shift-scroll not estimating the cost of scrolling
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14:25:09 <petern> What's missing from it is a sprite sheet.
14:25:23 <petern> Pick sprite is cool 'n all but.
14:26:04 <petern> Limitation disturbs me very sprites?
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14:27:56 <petern> I guess GETS' weird offsets in diagonal views is the articulated longer engines hack.
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16:09:16 <petern> Aligns with the rest of itself though 🙂
16:09:51 <petern> In case the author is reading, this is not criticism, I was just curious 🙂
16:28:16 <garlic_bread42> petern: i am reading. thanks for your help on the forums btw. Looks way better now 🙂
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17:40:40 <andythenorth> "should have got an M1"
17:47:18 <LordAro> andythenorth: lol that reddit post
17:47:54 <andythenorth> seems it had a nice ending though 🙂
17:48:08 <LordAro> playing on a phone (though admittedly a fairly beefy one), on a 1024x1024 map
17:49:34 <petern> Mobile port of JGRPP will be the killer-app
17:50:01 <andythenorth> phone should be able to do 1024x1024 easy
17:51:10 <andythenorth> my eyes were opened some years ago when iPhone single core started markedly outstripping my intel laptop
17:51:28 <andythenorth> there's a lot of details about sustained perf. and battery life, but eh
17:52:13 <petern> M1 isn't that old is it?
17:53:31 <andythenorth> multi-core is a different story
17:53:40 <andythenorth> and the iPhone will aggressively stop background processes
17:54:25 <andythenorth> ^ both devices released autumn 2019
17:55:20 <andythenorth> hmm life admin beckons
17:56:19 <petern> Those benchmarks aren't a good indication of actually in use performance.
17:56:37 <andythenorth> and we don't have OpenTTD for iOS 😛
17:57:05 <andythenorth> I assumed Android phones have equally good performance though?
17:57:21 <andythenorth> maybe not their SD cards 😛
17:58:13 <andythenorth> so JGRP 16x16k maps on mobile when?
18:01:34 <petern> vehicle sprite offsets in a logical place when?
18:08:35 <petern> Hmm, need to up the boiler a bit again 😦
18:13:21 <kamnet> andythenorth: There is one but it appears to be a pretty poor port.
18:16:14 <petern> We don't have one, same as we don't have an Android port.
18:19:24 <dP> hm, my phone runs wentbourne at 0.3x
18:23:05 <dP> yep, and that's some cheap android phone
18:24:49 <petern> Apple M2 can get near realtime.
18:25:04 <petern> My i7 8700K is also just about 0.4x.
18:26:50 <petern> Annoying that pause doesn't pause the frame rate stats 🙂
18:27:22 <petern> 75ms per tick, 35ms of that is trains.
18:27:55 <petern> I've lost about 10ms somewhere.
18:36:14 <andythenorth> petern: nice chunks
18:47:05 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:26:04 <petern> Hmm, automatic variants from cargo subtype refits?
19:32:46 <andythenorth> 'might be a thing'
19:38:52 <petern> Added some more fediverse relays today, maybe I'll doom-scroll my global feed.
20:04:32 <garlic_bread42> petern: if that could be a thing i'd highly appreciate that 😍
20:10:51 <andythenorth> I mean...what would it even?
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20:17:54 <petern> There's too many things in the way.
20:50:58 <petern> I have to keep deleting NewGRFs to test andy's stuff.
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21:01:38 <petern> I have no idea, I have not touched movement code.
21:01:48 <andythenorth> is the snowplough flipping?
21:01:57 <andythenorth> it has some magic about reversing if it is last vehicle in consist
21:02:05 <andythenorth> /me must now try
21:02:15 <petern> It should just be leaving the depot...
21:02:52 <petern> `direction =` should be `dir =`
21:03:04 <petern> direction is actually this->direction
21:03:42 <andythenorth> /me tests snowploughs
21:03:43 <petern> Is there a compiler flag to require this->? 😄
21:03:45 <andythenorth> they look so weird
21:16:23 <petern> Right, so making / \ views work was easy.
21:19:41 <petern> Even if your offsets are all wonky 😄
21:20:04 <andythenorth> can you hard-code fixing them 😛
21:20:16 <andythenorth> if (Horse) { fix }
21:27:13 <petern> ``` Direction dir = this->direction;
21:27:13 <petern> if (HasBit(this->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION)) dir = ReverseDir(dir);```
21:27:43 <petern> ^ fixes all offsets in viewport without requiring duplicate sprites.
21:28:03 <petern> (Depot image also needs handling)
21:29:06 <petern> AFAIK it only affects manually flipped engines?
21:31:21 <petern> I'm tempted to suggest turning the flag that enables flipping into "don't flip offsets after flipping".
21:32:22 <petern> See, I knew it was a simple fix, shame nobody reported a bug all those years ago and just came up with awkward workarounds.
21:39:13 <andythenorth> /me enjoying finding emoji reactions
21:39:18 <andythenorth> lost on irc probably 😛
21:40:33 <andythenorth> I think andythenorth went on a war against tickets
21:40:42 <andythenorth> might have discouraged new ones
21:41:20 <andythenorth> 13.0 beta 4 then?
21:44:11 <andythenorth> current issue count is a nice number
21:44:16 <andythenorth> means nothing, but eh
21:47:38 <petern> Needs a new flag for backwards compatibility I guess.
21:50:51 <andythenorth> is the flag on the vehicle, or the grf, or on the realsprite?
21:50:51 <petern> ^ We even reserved the group? Nice 😄
21:52:11 <andythenorth> do it like toggle palette 😛
21:52:13 <andythenorth> make the user choose
21:53:35 <petern> There is already a flag per vehicle which could be used.
22:03:22 <petern> Oops, I changed a header file.
22:05:02 <glx[d]> as long as it's not stdafx
22:05:08 <andythenorth> recompile all the things?
22:05:56 <petern> Basically I can repurpose 'EF_RAIL_FLIPS' to mean do it the old way, and go back to always allowing flipping.
22:07:25 <petern> Hmm, I guess I should check a standard 8/8 still works ;D
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22:10:23 <andythenorth> this would be an evil-reduction measure for Horse 😛
22:10:45 <andythenorth> the template loops are just slightly nastier because of needing to handle flipped offset
22:13:00 <petern> Hmm, okay, not quite right
22:14:18 <petern> The off-by-one stuff for odd-length wagons makes it "split" 🙂
22:19:31 <petern> I'm flipping wagons in UKRS3 which doesn't normally allow it.
22:20:49 <andythenorth> this should roughly halve the Horse filesize
22:22:38 <andythenorth> oof sleeping time arrives so soon 😛
22:23:11 <andythenorth> sometimes it can be avoided in a day
22:23:17 <andythenorth> usually ends badly
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