IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-11-29
⏴ go to previous day
00:03:34 *** elliot[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:03:40 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd
00:34:28 *** Deep3D has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
00:35:01 *** einar[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:35:07 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd
00:35:18 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:35:23 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has joined #openttd
00:35:35 *** gdown has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:35:52 *** shedidthedog[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:35:54 *** shedidthedog[m] has joined #openttd
00:36:09 *** thomas[m]12345 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:36:15 *** thomas[m]12345 has joined #openttd
00:36:26 *** vista_narvas[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:36:31 *** vista_narvas[m] has joined #openttd
00:36:43 *** Guest2261 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:36:46 *** enick_570 has joined #openttd
00:37:00 *** zzy2357[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:37:02 *** zzy2357[m] has joined #openttd
00:37:47 <TallTyler> Isn’t Zephyris working on improving OpenGFX with new sprites? Recall seeing that on the forums recently.
00:56:37 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
00:56:43 *** Smedles has joined #openttd
01:26:56 *** APTX_ has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
01:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> why aren't people making more 8bpp EZ sprites?
01:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> people seem to think the two features "32bpp" and "EZ" must be done in combination
01:43:39 <EmperorJake> I prefer 32bpp normal zoom sprites because it blends better with existing graphics
02:39:17 *** MaverickFischer has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
02:39:28 *** MaverickFischer has joined #openttd
02:41:33 *** Extrems has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
02:41:39 *** Extrems has joined #openttd
03:12:41 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:24:37 *** colde has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
03:30:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
04:22:25 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
04:22:36 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd
04:27:24 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
05:36:05 *** esselfe has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
05:52:21 *** mlt has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
06:11:42 <Pruple> Eddi|zuHause: lots of people don't understand what either term means. But yeah, "why aren't people making more 32bpp normal zoom sprites" is a more sensible question IMO.
06:12:10 <Pruple> normal zoom sprites are faster and easier to draw, sure, because there are fewer pixels
06:13:27 <Pruple> but the technical limitation of the 256 colour palette is a handicap there's absolutely no reason for anyone to saddle themselves with, new artists in particular, even if you're wanting to draw original-TTD-style graphics.
06:14:41 <Gwyd> There are a lot of colours that the original pallete just kinda doesn't have in any useful way
06:14:52 <Gwyd> And by a lot of colours I mean orange
06:16:59 <kamnet> We need tools that make it easier to draw.
06:28:25 *** Tirili has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
06:32:31 <Pruple> kamnet: like what? voxel tools seem to be working for some people, but they still require some artistic skill and attention to technical requirements.
06:34:17 *** Rustoocas has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
06:34:17 *** Rustoocas has joined #openttd
06:34:30 <Pruple> some artists use code to manipulate and assemble sprites, but those tools are rarely polished enough for general use, and still require appropriate inputs
07:11:34 *** ST2 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
07:29:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:33:54 <dP> petern: It would be helpful to have some action to adjust offsets even in the same grf
07:37:24 <dP> Basically, any form of sprite reuse is helpful, be it basest, other grf, or same grf sprite
07:39:10 *** ufo-piloot has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
07:39:21 *** ufo-piloot has joined #openttd
07:41:09 *** Yozora has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
07:53:13 *** felix has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
07:58:26 *** CplBurdenR3294 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
07:58:26 *** CplBurdenR3294 has joined #openttd
08:24:30 *** FLHerne has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
08:24:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
08:35:16 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
08:35:18 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has joined #openttd
08:37:15 *** Hazzard has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
08:37:26 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd
08:52:14 <pickpacket> petern: that just sounds dumb
08:56:22 <Rubidium> nah, works very well for people that work alone on one thing
08:58:49 <JustANortherner> I think this is the first time I've ever seen a link to Mastodon in the wild
09:02:28 *** menelaos[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
09:02:32 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd
09:05:13 <petern> I work alone on things and still use PRs.
09:05:34 <petern> I don't have to wait for it to be reviewed of course.
09:10:29 <LordAro> depends how much you value always having a working build, i suppose
09:10:57 <LordAro> (assuming you actually have a suitable CI setup to check it)
09:11:14 <LordAro> otherwise the value of PRs when working alone is pretty low
09:15:05 <petern> PRs are low value but branches are not.
09:15:32 <LordAro> again, depends if you're working on more than one thing at once
09:17:24 <petern> Branches allow you to commit early & commit often, iron out any kinks and tidy up the commit tree. I guess not everyone values that.
09:17:35 <andythenorth> I could have views on that TPW post
09:17:43 <andythenorth> but it's just a bloke on the internet so eh
09:18:13 <petern> I like that we (OpenTTD) are strict on branches and PRs 😄
09:18:28 <andythenorth> in a collaborative project anything else is fucking stupid
09:18:41 <andythenorth> like...this isn't emperor's new clothes stuff
09:18:53 <andythenorth> separating concerns isn't some collective delusion
09:19:07 <andythenorth> but in a small project, branches and PRs are fricking nuts
09:19:31 <andythenorth> I have 3 branches in FIRS I'm maintaining against each other right now, it sucks
09:19:44 <andythenorth> but if I don't, I can't release bug fixes cleanly from main
09:19:47 <petern> Have you considered merging?
09:20:03 <andythenorth> I am targeting bug fix releases, v5 release, v6 release
09:20:17 <andythenorth> so merging would be....well there would be a demerge
09:20:21 <andythenorth> or feature flags
09:20:25 <andythenorth> feature flags kinda work
09:20:30 <petern> So that's release branches, which is kinda different.
09:21:10 <andythenorth> branches is fine
09:21:17 <andythenorth> If I PR-ed my own stuff, approving myself
09:21:26 <andythenorth> I think we'd need to stage an intervention
09:21:34 <andythenorth> see also: how OpenTTD website gets released
09:23:52 <andythenorth> /me likes trains
09:25:29 <petern> You could have views, eh? :p
09:26:14 <andythenorth> I am trying not to have views these days
09:26:23 <andythenorth> most of the tweets I write, I then delete
09:27:01 <andythenorth> I could campaign for other people to do the same, but then I'd have to tweet about that
09:41:41 <petern> Dear VS Code, please stop turning that extra side bar on
09:43:50 *** jpw has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
09:44:58 *** dude[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
09:45:14 *** dude[m] has joined #openttd
09:51:42 <petern> JustANortherner: Some of us are even using it now ;p
10:02:32 *** phil[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
10:02:53 *** phil[m] has joined #openttd
10:26:15 <petern> Oooh Simutrans Official Trailer (only 1 month old)
10:26:34 <petern> That aircraft looks a bit low.
10:27:29 <petern> Some nice features I guess.
10:28:03 <petern> Multiplatform signals, lol
10:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> is that one signal responsible for multiple platforms, or a signal that splits a platform into multiple?
10:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (both of those exist in real railways)
11:13:10 <petern> Well, not in that way.
11:14:21 <petern> It's a signal at the entrance to a station that lets the trains use multiple platforms.
11:27:15 *** berndj has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
11:55:11 *** WoozyDragon4018 has joined #openttd
11:55:11 <WoozyDragon4018> LordAro: Lmaoo
12:27:19 *** Elouin has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
12:50:50 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
12:51:01 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd
12:57:30 <LordAro> petern: i like the extra padding of the before :D
13:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the first screenshot has more padding top/bottom, and the second has more padding left/right?
13:06:00 <petern> I knew this would happen 😛
13:06:10 <petern> Hence my note below the fix 😄
13:06:51 <LordAro> just feel that the slightly increased top/bottom padding looked better
13:07:18 <petern> Yup. It doesn't have that normally, only this case where it's drawn incorrectly.
13:07:29 <petern> Its pretty much only this tooltip that I've found that does it.
13:09:44 <petern> Increase the padding and you get this...
13:09:54 <petern> Because it's max the width that determines the wrapping
13:11:23 <petern> Possibly bug in `GetStringBoundingBox()` though, if you specify a max width and it wraps, it returns that max width, not the width it wrapped at.
13:11:56 <petern> So multiline tooltips are always the same width.
13:12:52 <petern> (That is why it looks like more horizontal padding in the second image in the PR)
13:14:03 <petern> I found if you increase padding, someone will make a bug report out of it 🙂
13:16:57 <petern> Oh, that's not a bug in GetStringBoundingBox, the limit is outside that function, oops 😄
13:19:35 <petern> Hmm, and GetStringMultiLineBoundingBox says that "suggestion" is the suggested bounding box, but it's harder than a suggestion.
13:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: all UI changes are a giant can of worms...
13:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter how miniscule you think it is
13:27:21 <petern> Haha if only I hadn't left the option in
13:30:29 <petern> andythenorth: have you increased the objects-per-grf limit yet? Now that you don't need to bugged by the window changing size...
13:33:57 <petern> Where did big depots go?
13:42:58 *** JustANortherner has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
13:42:58 *** JustANortherner has joined #openttd
13:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> my LCD monitor backlight is starting to fail...
13:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> do you think it's worth trying to get replacements? or converting to LED backlight?
13:56:00 <petern> I chucked mine that died 😦
13:56:20 <petern> Sad but I couldn't even get them apart without destroying them further.
13:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not quite dead yet, but it's noticeably darker, an has a top/bottom gradient
13:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i previously resurrected this monitor from a failed power supply with 2€ worth of capacitors
14:01:23 *** ist5shreawf[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
14:01:32 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd
14:01:57 *** natmac[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
14:02:09 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd
14:04:14 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
14:04:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
14:10:55 *** tokai has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
14:12:38 <petern> Probably all mine needed but... 😦
14:13:48 <petern> It gave me an excuse to switch to two 32" monitors though.
14:16:09 <petern> Self-inflicted branches and PRs, such hard
14:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have that kind of cash lying around i'm afraid
14:18:51 <petern> Me neither, already had them and they were from work (as were the two dead monitors, actually)
14:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to get a new computer first... this one is outdated by like 5 years now
15:12:22 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
15:19:01 *** ag[d] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
15:19:15 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
15:56:42 *** NotLuke has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
15:56:42 *** NotLuke has joined #openttd
16:15:58 *** igor[m]12 has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
16:16:04 *** igor[m]12 has joined #openttd
16:22:40 *** amnox has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
16:35:12 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
16:37:14 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
16:43:10 *** hamstonkid[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
16:43:14 *** hamstonkid[m] has joined #openttd
16:43:27 *** karoline[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
16:43:29 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd
16:43:44 *** khavik[m] has quit IRC (Server closed connection)
16:43:49 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd
16:45:18 *** wallabra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
16:58:40 *** wallabra has joined #openttd
17:28:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:36:41 <petern> Hmm, do I need an album on limited edition gold vinyl...
17:47:00 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
17:53:25 <Pruple> If you're asking a question like that, the answer is obviously yes.
18:03:29 *** supermop_toil has joined #openttd
18:28:56 <andythenorth> petern: No, my PR for that is stalled
18:30:26 <andythenorth> possibly perpetually 😛
18:30:36 <andythenorth> I did patch grf once though
18:30:37 *** Deep3D has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
18:39:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:44:42 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:11:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
19:33:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:37:12 *** Rubidium has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
19:40:15 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd
19:40:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium
21:01:12 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
21:34:30 *** esselfe has joined #openttd
21:34:49 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:17:10 <glx[d]> hmm yeah I should remove that from the changelog
22:21:55 <petern> Oh, even a single engine by itself mvoes.
22:24:34 <Pruple> a single vehicle, or articulated?
22:31:58 <petern> No shuffling is performed if the train is less than 3 parts.
22:32:14 <petern> So single non-even length trains get moved.
22:32:58 <petern> This isn't new but I've never been bugged by it enough to look before :p
22:33:14 <petern> I specially like the bottom one that is hanging off the end of the rail...
22:33:23 <petern> Even non reversed, tbh.
22:33:43 <Pruple> no, I'm not sure it's a big problem 🙂 I guess it might explain why trains sometimes clip through a building in front of them when reversing at the end of a station platform, though.
22:34:12 <petern> Well if it changes position that could affect signals and path reversations.
22:36:15 <petern> The top one that moves 2 units is... yeah. The middle part just doesn't appear to move, although its position does change.
22:37:02 <petern> So the internal position is half way through the vehicle, but for odd-length vehicles that also needs an extra shuffle.
22:38:39 <andythenorth> such train excite
22:38:46 <andythenorth> /me enjoyed greatly 🙂
22:38:54 <petern> I'm wary of how the traincontroller is used here to move things about, because... signals, end of line, etc?
22:39:38 <Pruple> andy doesn't need to worry, his trains are always integer length
22:41:15 <petern> If you have 6 8 8 it also goes wrong.
22:41:25 <petern> I guess if everything is 8 then andy is safe.
22:42:53 <petern> What it needs is a kid to pick up the train and put it back down.
22:44:24 <andythenorth> new animation layer
22:44:37 <andythenorth> what was the mariokart character on the cloud?
22:44:41 <andythenorth> something like that
22:45:12 <TallTyler> Hmm, that doesn't look right 😛
22:46:37 <andythenorth> ^ train reversing
22:46:45 <glx[d]> I should probably fix translations to include some newlines for the menu
22:48:25 <Pruple> it's a very finnish sounding name, lakitu
22:48:45 <andythenorth> like a rally driver
22:51:08 <Pruple> not every finn is a rally driver
22:52:48 <petern> Hmm, also for odd-length vehicles, flipping it when it's on the very end of a turn will necessarily cause it to change direction 😄
22:53:24 <petern> Who even allows shorter vehicles?
22:53:44 <Pruple> petern: I think that was what drew the original reporter's attention, the direction change
22:54:10 <petern> Yeah, but that isn't necessarily a bug after all
22:54:18 <petern> Ban 1 3 5 and 7 lengths...
22:54:32 <petern> Still doesn't fix the issue completely...
22:54:46 <Pruple> might have to actually fix it then :/
22:55:13 <petern> Well I had a thought. But it's not a good thought.
23:03:19 <andythenorth> /me such naptime
23:13:13 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
23:24:03 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd
23:27:07 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC ()
continue to next day ⏵
