IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-11-07
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07:32:49 <reldred> omg, I just witnessed a 17years and 3months necropost on tt-f
07:33:16 <reldred> nine more months and that thread could buy it's own liquor here
07:40:01 <reldred> plus that thread reminded me how bloody annoying one particular forum member was
08:02:00 * andythenorth trying to figure out why articulated vehicles aren't broken IN EVERY OTHER GRF EVER MADE :P
08:02:35 <andythenorth> UKRS 2 fine, 2CC trains fine
08:12:48 <Brickblock1> reldred: at least it was not 20 years
08:16:17 <EmperorJake> Oh wow I haven't seen that station set in ages
08:20:18 <reldred> Yeah, back when PGS existed and a certain 'project manager' kept arguing with me on a daily basis on how to organize it.
08:25:04 <andythenorth> managers of grf projects
08:25:08 <andythenorth> we do need more of those
08:25:30 <reldred> no we absolutely do not
08:26:25 <andythenorth> it should be obvious to all
08:26:32 <andythenorth> I have no idea how to manage software projects
08:26:59 <reldred> it's a vidya jame, no PM's plz
08:27:18 <andythenorth> but how will it get done on time?
08:27:48 <reldred> ottd exists outside of time and space
09:23:23 <petern> Speaking of on time, morning...
09:25:09 <petern> I wonder how all these Mastodon instances will cope now that they are getting more load than just a handful of users.
09:27:07 <andythenorth> I am staying in the hellscape until something conclusive emerges
09:27:22 <andythenorth> running seems quite virtue signal-ish right now
09:27:41 <andythenorth> I bet half the people fleeing would happily buy a Tesla
09:27:49 <andythenorth> and the other half are probably excited by rockets
09:28:41 <JGR> People can be on more than one platform at once, a lot of it is just hedging in case it goes pear-shaped
09:30:08 <andythenorth> we could all just....stop
09:30:12 <andythenorth> public platforms
09:31:03 <JGR> If you're trying to drum up interest in your work then public platforms are kind of useful
09:31:17 <JGR> These are the kind of people who seem to be most upset, which is understandable
09:33:03 <andythenorth> I do a lot of work-related Twitter
09:33:06 <andythenorth> it's super useful
09:33:48 <reldred> I only built a new misskey instance because I broke my last one lol
09:34:30 <reldred> and yeah I'm riding twatter into the ground, musk bought my dog shit tweets now he gets to put up with the person responsible >:)
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10:50:39 <andythenorth> lol no but seriously, we could all switch to reddit
10:50:43 <andythenorth> no elon musk there
10:52:27 <reldred> absolutely disgusting, worst possible outcome
10:53:19 <andythenorth> also reddit, it's really hard to use, but the users are thick as mince
10:53:31 <andythenorth> they post all their problems using games, software etc
10:53:38 <andythenorth> but reddit is incredibly weirdly unusable
10:54:15 <JGR> Reddit is not really a single place
10:54:23 <andythenorth> I am thinking of the platform
10:54:45 <andythenorth> I tried using it, I got it wrong
10:55:09 <JGR> I use it read-only, for the most part
10:55:42 <andythenorth> a stream of me trying to use reddit would be lolz
10:55:57 <andythenorth> "it's probably me"
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11:21:18 <petern> Reddit is basically just a big forum.
12:01:55 <petern> I thought I'd be clever and add a destructor AirportSpec, as that frees resources when it's removed.
12:02:26 <petern> The specs are all copied from the GRFFIle lists to a giant array. Oops.
12:03:30 <petern> NewGRF airports are a thing.
12:03:44 <andythenorth> I use them somehow in OGFX+ Airports
12:04:03 <andythenorth> and different ground sprites
12:04:42 <andythenorth> all the nice things in the game
12:04:47 <andythenorth> no seaplanes though ๐
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12:46:40 <andythenorth> there's a seaplane airport which needs the canals trick
13:17:54 <petern> Oops, wanted to make a frothy coffee but accidentally got a teabag out instead
13:18:40 <JGR> You could make frothy tea a thing
13:28:40 <andythenorth> mayo, or ketchup?
14:15:51 <bigyihsuan> what if you put dried tea leaves into an expresso machine
14:15:57 <bigyihsuan> 's preground coffee port
14:16:08 <bigyihsuan> i wonder what would happen
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15:19:05 <JustANortherner> It'd probably make some really shit tea
15:44:57 <camthesaxman> Some people make tea in coffee makers.
15:46:20 <LordAro> such people are a danger to society and should be cast out
15:49:48 <camthesaxman> To each his own. I drink tea plain with no milk or sugar, and some people hate that.
15:50:30 <LordAro> I leave the teabag in the mug when drinking it ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
15:50:44 <LordAro> and only enough milk to just give it some colour
15:51:39 <JGR> I don't really like black/English tea at all (shock, horror)
15:52:34 <JGR> I mostly stick to coffee, or if not green/fruit tea
15:52:48 <camthesaxman> Earl grey is my favorite English tea. The normal black tea doesn't have much of a flavor.
16:03:07 <JustANortherner> Yorkshire Tea or bust for me.
16:03:16 <JustANortherner> When out and about, it's usually coffee
16:03:56 <JustANortherner> If I don't have a coffee in my hand when I'm out and about, something is usually wrong...
16:03:56 <JustANortherner> Or I've got a beer in my hand...
16:08:18 <camthesaxman> I could never acquire a taste for coffee, unless it's a latte or cappucino. It's so bitter.
16:32:53 <Merni> Yeah I don't like coffee either
16:33:05 <Merni> I regard that as a blessing to be able to function without needing it :p
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16:48:57 <JustANortherner> Merni: I'm railway staff... we all work off caffeine ๐
16:49:07 <JustANortherner> Lots of the stuff
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17:46:51 <petern> Why should rebuilding a road stop not cost money.. hmm..
17:47:40 <TallTyler> Discussion is in the linked issue
17:49:59 <petern> Rebuilding a station does have an effect, it updates the station's build date, which could then affect graphics/callback results.
17:51:22 <JGR> Having no cost if overbuilding with an identical tile sort of makes sense
17:52:18 <JGR> Making all modifications of existing rail station tiles (with the same axis) free really doesn't though
17:53:49 <FLHerne> I can see the argument
17:53:58 <FLHerne> there's no gameplay benefit to having a prettier station
17:54:06 <FLHerne> so why should there be a gameplay cost
17:54:40 <FLHerne> relatedly, I think it should also not require Local Authority approval to rebuild an existing tile
17:55:30 <FLHerne> it's annoying when it fails, and as above it has no effect on the game balance
17:55:38 <TallTyler> FLHerne: Agreed on both points
17:56:12 <TallTyler> petern: Do any station callbacks have gameplay effects?
17:57:14 <JGR> FLHerne: I find this argument a bit strange to be honest
17:57:27 <JGR> There's loads of construction you can do in game that is useless
17:57:36 <JGR> That doesn't mean that building things should be free
17:58:11 <FLHerne> I mean, if you're playing in a style where "make the most money" is the primary goal, you'll never want to rebuild an existing station tile
17:59:05 <FLHerne> so the only effect of the cost is to inconvenience players who do want to prettify the map but for whatever reason have finite money
17:59:45 <FLHerne> for what you say, ideally all actions that are purely decorative and have no gameplay benefit should be free IMO
17:59:56 <FLHerne> but for a lot of things it's hard to distinguish
18:00:11 <FLHerne> even objects can be used to claim tiles or block town growth or so
18:02:06 <FLHerne> for single-player, the answer is to cheat for infinite money :p
18:03:11 <JGR> Suffice it to say that I don't see it that way
18:24:44 <petern> Hmm, this networking is cursed :/
18:26:59 <petern> Docker & LXC on the same host, VLAN tagged bridge, and packets going wonky :/
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18:31:35 <pickpacket> I've set the Maximum initial loan to ยฃ300,000 but when I start a new game it's set to ยฃ500,000
18:31:57 <LordAro> is inflation turned on?
18:32:08 <pickpacket> it seems I can increase it, but no matter how low I go it never goes below ยฃ300k
18:32:46 <pickpacket> *never goes below ยฃ500k
18:33:40 <LordAro> inflation is applied from 1950-2070(?) regardless of start date
18:35:25 <pickpacket> my starting date is 1st Jan 1950
18:36:04 <pickpacket> this is so weird... I set it to ยฃ200k now, but in a new game it's ยฃ350k
18:36:44 <pickpacket> set it to ยฃ150k and in the game it's ยฃ250k O.o
18:37:54 <petern> So starting at 1950 it's got 30 years of inflation.
18:39:54 <JGR> If you start the game with it turned off but then enable it afterwards you can avoid the problem
18:40:26 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Error: unsupported operand type(s) for ^: 'float' and 'float'
18:40:32 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 362.27231682067094
18:41:16 <petern> The main problem is there's nothing to explain why your initial max loan setting isn't your initial max loan...
18:41:23 <petern> Or maybe there is but I haven't read it ๐
18:41:29 <LordAro> there's an issue about it somewhere
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18:48:31 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:48:43 <petern> Hmm, so is this my router blocking things, or firewall rules on the docker/lxc host, or... bleh
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18:55:56 <andythenorth> remember ftp sites?
19:23:25 <frosch> did we switch to mastodon yet?
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19:39:12 <LordAro> tyler going full andy
19:39:50 <andythenorth> frosch: we're switching to reddit
19:39:56 <andythenorth> I am campaigning for it
19:40:03 <andythenorth> 'definitely better'
19:40:17 <JGR> It seems like we've all switched to Discord instead
19:41:19 <frosch> hmm, yes, discord has distinct channels for cat pictures
19:41:44 <frosch> on reddit you can't avoid all the "i made 1 million in month"-ottd screenshots
19:42:03 <andythenorth> I do wonder what all the fuss is about with Twitter
19:42:07 <andythenorth> it has really low usage anyway
19:42:20 <andythenorth> the public generally don't use it like it or understand the fuss
19:42:31 <JGR> Twitter can be very interesting if you follow the right people
19:42:32 <andythenorth> it's mostly just journalists, tech people and politicians
19:42:38 <JGR> The trick it to not follow the wrong people
19:42:49 <andythenorth> I agree, and have a curated set of following
19:42:59 <andythenorth> but it's not a widely used public platform
19:43:46 <andythenorth> dunno if they're accurate, but eh, stats
19:47:22 <frosch> i did not know snapchat and pinterest still existed, but that one lists them more active than twitter :p
19:47:40 <frosch> and yes, twitter is mostly politics
19:47:48 <frosch> other celebs use instagram
19:47:54 <frosch> but politics does little with pictures
19:49:16 <frosch> anyway, on friday i thought i will need some popcorn. but i did not think i would need an express delivery ๐
19:49:42 <JGR> Snapchat is aimed at the youth I gather, I don't think we're in the target audience
19:50:12 <petern> Is snapchat social media, or just sending photos to your friend group?
19:50:48 <LordAro> i don't think snapchat is cool anymore
19:53:53 <LordAro> amongst the youth, i mean
20:01:44 <andythenorth> anyway, Reddit is nearly as big as Twitter
20:02:18 <andythenorth> Discord reported numbers are lower than Twitter
20:02:32 <JGR> Newspapers and TV stations don't quote people on Reddit all the time
20:02:35 <andythenorth> but Discord is really the environment of choice, unless you badly need to be connected to randoms
20:03:25 <JGR> For some reason that does happen with Twitter though
20:03:36 <JGR> No-one is going to pay $44B for reddit
20:03:47 <andythenorth> no disputing that
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20:25:47 <andythenorth> so I 'fixed' Horse company colour stuff
20:25:53 <andythenorth> by making it violate the grf spec
20:25:58 <andythenorth> dunno what else breaks ๐
20:27:20 <pickpacket> andythenorth: how exactly did you violate the spec? :D
20:31:49 <andythenorth> trailing parts with non-zero power
20:33:03 <JGR> Realistically though, what OpenTTD the program does is authoritative, rather than what happens to be on the wiki
20:35:07 <andythenorth> well yes, but the spec is normative
20:40:39 <andythenorth> however the spec is also malleable ๐
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20:53:46 <andythenorth> I might need to dig through all the callbacks in use?
20:54:55 <frosch> on second though, the bug is obvious
20:55:27 <frosch> yes, i edited the same into my comment ๐
20:56:43 <frosch> not sure why it is done the way it is done, i would try to "support articulated wagons"
20:57:01 <frosch> maybe trying to do that will reveal why it was done like this :p
20:57:09 <petern> You know who added the wagon exception? ๐
20:57:27 <frosch> normally i would guess you
20:57:36 <frosch> but if you ask like that, was it me?
20:59:41 <petern> Yup. if it was me I would've called myself an idiot ๐
21:00:29 <petern> Hmm, that sounds wrong, there is no other hidden meaning behind that!
21:00:30 <frosch> "fixed as far as I could tell without testgrf" ๐
21:01:34 <frosch> andythenorth: that commit is from 2009, did you purchase the extended support?
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21:06:33 <andythenorth> that commit is vintage
21:15:50 <Xaroth> also rebased, felt like the nice thing to do.
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21:17:57 <Xaroth> ... vscode is being funny with me
21:18:03 <TallTyler> Can anybody see a way that #9034 would break AI?
21:18:28 <Xaroth> There, now with fixed not having whitespace.
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21:27:12 <TallTyler> I still see the commit checker failing due to whitespace. There are also some unused strings now.
21:28:54 <Xaroth> L458 does not contain any spaces on my end though
21:32:46 <Xaroth> but I shall remove those strings, if I can remember what that entailed again
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21:57:30 <TallTyler> Do void tiles surround the real tiles on every side? Trying to understand #8517
21:58:51 <JGR> I'd be inclined to just say no and close it
22:04:34 <TallTyler> Iโve already closed two Samu PRs in the last hour, seems cruel ๐
22:06:43 <LordAro> there's at least 20 more closed samu PRs
22:07:01 <TallTyler> This one actually makes sense to me if my understanding of void tiles is correct
22:08:35 <JGR> Void tiles shouldn't do anything
22:09:19 <JGR> Having flooding happen if you lower land at the edge seems to violate least surprise
22:09:37 <TallTyler> That already happens though?
22:09:46 <reldred> Void tiles I believe was some folks wanted to replace the sprite with ocean like the good old days of OpenTTD and TTDPatch?
22:11:07 <frosch> TallTyler: it depends on the freeform-maps legacy-compatibility setting
22:11:28 <frosch> if you disable freeform maps, then the north edges are water, and only the south edges are void
22:12:15 <frosch> so 256x256 maps used to be 255x255 visible tiles, now they are 254x254 visible tiles :p
22:12:17 <JGR> TallTyler: Heh, did a quick test and I am surprised
22:12:55 <JGR> It does make rather more sense now
22:19:10 <TallTyler> On non-freeform maps, is there an invisible line of water tiles? Or no invisible tiles at all?
22:19:49 <petern> There's never any invisible water tiles.
22:19:58 <TallTyler> If I terraform land on the north edge of a non-freeform map and then sink it back to sea level, would there still be an invisible water tile to flood it?
22:21:19 <TallTyler> Oh, but the freeform compatibility setting isnโt the one in worldgen, right?
22:21:40 <TallTyler> If freeform is truly disabled, can I not terraform the north edges of the map?
22:21:48 <TallTyler> They must always be water?
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23:00:51 <TallTyler> I closed or merged 6 PRs today. If anyone wants to beat my record tomorrow thereโs 9 approved and awaiting a second developer to merge ๐
23:04:48 <reldred> TallTyler: wait you got merge rights? \o/
23:12:41 <TallTyler> reldred: Thanks! Submit some crazy rock PRs and Iโll get them taken away before New Yearโs ๐
23:54:02 <glx[d]> Arastais: github hidden feature hint: you can reply to multiple code comments via review ๐
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