IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-08-29
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04:45:19 <NekoMasterSomeCanadi> peter1138: A majority of North America I'd assume, and probably more. Seems like Europe kinda went head first into IPv6 with some people only able to do stuff on it and thus unable to do anything with IPv4 only stuff (like hosting Ipv4 only game servers)
04:46:30 <NekoMasterSomeCanadi> Thats pretty stupid, and its not like IPv6 is anything NEW either
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04:50:50 <datboi11029> i think its like 46% in the US
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06:01:54 <dwfreed> Every major cable provider in the US does IPv6; even the major fiber providers are starting to roll it out now; also every mobile provider does v6
06:03:22 <dwfreed> According to Google, the US is at 48.5% adoption
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06:37:20 <reldred> Yuh, pretty hard to do LTE without ipv6,
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09:13:48 <andythenorth> industry layout chooser for grf devs? 😛
09:14:03 * andythenorth getting smacked around by 'random is random'
09:16:16 <dP> I'd do one in cmclient but getting newgrf sprite previews would probably not be simple
09:16:37 <dP> also all the changes to command stuff doesn't help either
09:16:55 <dP> you can try limiting random by rails though like I did for ecs
09:17:12 <andythenorth> I just want e.g. a flag that replaces random with a sequence
09:17:27 <andythenorth> store 'last built' per industry type
09:18:14 <FLHerne> industry layout chooser for everyone?
09:18:26 <dP> hm, I guess I could add layout rotation without previews for now
09:18:57 <andythenorth> this only bothers me when I'm testing layouts
09:19:03 <andythenorth> but it's quite yak-shaving
09:19:23 <andythenorth> the other thing that would really help an occasional case in grf dev
09:19:43 <andythenorth> over-riding the company colour CB result via a field in the grf debug window
09:21:04 <andythenorth> another 15 industries constructed to get the one I want 😛
09:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with that idea, you're basically now altering game state in an obscure location, which could lead to all kinds of problems in the future, as people want more things they want to change "for testing purposes"
09:44:44 <andythenorth> and then I leave the flag set in normal gameplay
09:44:46 <andythenorth> then I report bugs
09:49:11 <dP> can easily add something like that in cmclient as it already has "not vanilla" issue
09:49:19 <dP> but I'm too lazy to code it :P
09:49:50 <JGR> If a debug flag is really not meant for normal play, best to make it so that it needs to be explicitly set each time
09:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd maybe also hide it behind the cheat flag for extra safety
09:51:10 <dP> there is already developer mode for such stuff
09:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that doesn't check for multiplayer and stuff
09:51:45 <JGR> Developer mode is not really exclusive to actual developers
09:52:11 <JGR> Seeing as users get pointed to it immediately for adding GRFs
09:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> like with settings, if you add an "expert" mode, suddenly many people will be "experts" that probably shouldn't be
09:53:05 <andythenorth> any debug flag, I'd forget about as soon as we merged it 😛
09:53:15 <andythenorth> although someone would remind me probably
09:54:23 <andythenorth> so currently testing industry layouts involves
09:54:28 <andythenorth> - cheat a lot of money
09:54:32 <andythenorth> - turn on magic bulldozer
09:54:38 <andythenorth> - flatten an area of map
09:54:57 <andythenorth> - build and destroy industries until I get the layout I need to test
09:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just go to the scenario editor?
09:55:08 <andythenorth> animations don't run in the scenario editor
09:55:16 <andythenorth> otherwise it is much easier yes
09:55:42 <andythenorth> then if the tile IDs change in the layout, rinse and repeat
09:56:22 <andythenorth> I think the correct solution is just complaining about it, and doing the work 😛
09:57:08 <andythenorth> injecting results to industry callbacks could occasionally be very useful, re: the company colour point
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09:58:48 <JGR> Might it be easier to do a custom GRF build with the callback handler modified for testing?
09:59:21 <andythenorth> what if storage values could be modified in place?
09:59:32 <andythenorth> I could read callback results via the storage
09:59:44 <andythenorth> hmm, but would users start changing them, then file bug reports?
10:00:40 <JGR> It would make it easier for things like cheating production higher
10:01:13 <JGR> Though presumably all this would have to be disabled in multiplayer, so it doesn't matter that much
10:08:36 <dP> andythenorth: you can set high initial loan, though you still need to borrow it all
10:08:46 <dP> cmclient has hotkey for that ;)
10:19:44 <andythenorth> locating industry A near industry B seems still prone to failures
10:19:56 <andythenorth> based on the stats frosch has generated, it should mostly work
10:20:31 <andythenorth> I guess I am generating enough maps to find the cases where 'mostly' doesn't cover them
10:25:38 <andythenorth> tempted to draw a continuous caster
10:25:47 <andythenorth> the downside is they don't usually run in open air 😛
10:25:51 <andythenorth> so it won't be seen
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10:41:27 <efess> Glass ceiling, problem solved 🙂
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10:50:22 <andythenorth> going to go with stealing an animated ladle from another industry 😛
10:52:01 <andythenorth> open air caster it is
10:56:01 <dP> added layout selector to cmclient
10:56:14 <dP> andythenorth: can make a build if you want to try
11:17:24 <dP> now to figure out how to make release without publishing it on the website...
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11:56:57 <Kussia_20> what is this genius on a vanilla server?
11:56:57 <Kussia_20> can i have his discord?
12:07:04 <andythenorth> dP: mac build doesn't run due to signing
12:07:11 <andythenorth> can probably compile
12:08:45 <dP> oh, I forgot you're on mac
12:09:46 <dP> coz I've no idea how to deal with signing
12:23:51 <kamnet> andythenorth: Developer-focused patchpack? 🙂
12:25:22 <dP> cmclient has a bit of development focus as I'm adding dev things I need sometimes
12:25:33 <kamnet> Nevermind I'm obviously 2 hours behind on the discussion LOL
12:30:06 <JGR> I've been adding a fair bit of in game developer-focused stuff, bit it's mostly read-only, rather than changing anything
12:32:17 <andythenorth> dP: so what do I do to use it? 🙂
12:33:14 <dP> just press the middle mouse button when funding to select layout
12:34:31 <andythenorth> no modifier key?
12:34:43 <dP> then go to hotkeys.cfg and change `industry_fund_gui.cm_switch_layout` to smth else
12:59:31 <andythenorth> new CHIPS time? 😛
12:59:41 <andythenorth> or FIRS could include stations?
13:00:38 <dP> grf-py can also do stations ;)
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13:14:38 <dP> dP: andythenorth did it work?
13:15:46 <andythenorth> nah couldn't figure it out
13:17:04 <dP> it should show layout when funding and switch it when you press the hotkey
13:20:57 <dP> so if it shows a number instead of "rng" it should build that layout consistently
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13:21:25 <EmperorJake> I use an app to enable three finger middle click on Mac if that helps
13:22:05 <dP> should be simpler to change change the hotkey in the config
13:23:58 <dP> I have a lot of rotations and stuff on mmb so I used it by default for consistency (kind of)
13:26:40 <andythenorth> I didn't see rng
13:26:54 <andythenorth> 12.2-layout-switcher
13:29:58 <dP> what you compiled it from, this?
13:32:50 <dP> also I may have used the wrong way to show that rng string somehow so try pressing the hotkey and see if it fixes the layout
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13:50:50 <dP> hm, I only see firs 4.5 in the game... does 4.6 have nightly requirement or smth?
13:56:20 <glx> I guess it's now time to update changelog
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13:57:25 <dP> andythenorth: also, try zooming in to max first and with vanilla industries
13:57:33 <dP> though it works with firs for me too
13:57:41 <dP> works with everythnig I could think of
14:08:52 <andythenorth> could draw all this crap
14:09:59 <dP> dP: oh, and flat land as it only sets first layout to try, can still switch to others if first fails
14:19:12 <andythenorth> git log has the commit
14:23:44 <dP> andythenorth: does it add `industry_fund_gui.cm_switch_layout` hotkey to `hotkeys.cfg` ?
14:25:29 <andythenorth> tried it with vanilla
14:29:22 <dP> I found a bug in OpenTTD but not layout switcher 😅
14:34:28 <frosch> though considering that page was abandoned in august 2005, it's impressive that it made it into ottd
14:35:33 <dP> frosch: at least that would have spared me some time fiddling with wayback machine
14:58:51 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: just make a VR steel mill tour
15:03:37 <peter1138> Kinda left it a bit late for lunch :/
15:03:50 <andythenorth> I had mine like an hour agao
15:04:21 <peter1138> My two fellow riders had a fried breakfast mid way. I settled for banana and coffee.
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15:12:21 <andythenorth> a frame stepper is out of the question, for testing animated industries? 😛
15:23:46 <peter1138> Maybe I should get voxel doom.
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15:29:43 <andythenorth> backface voxel culling
15:39:18 <peter1138> Should've called it cubical doom...
16:33:46 <andythenorth> guess if I halve the animation speed
16:33:54 <andythenorth> more chance of hitting pause on the correct frame
16:35:40 <frosch> you could add a console command to run the tileloop N times
16:35:52 <frosch> while paused otherwise
16:36:22 <andythenorth> I'll forget it exists 🙂
16:39:26 <andythenorth> like dumpinfo railtypes 😛
16:49:34 <JGR> Animation isn't done through the tile loop
16:50:09 <JGR> It's a separate mechanism, so would need a bit more effort to step like that
16:51:23 <JGR> Animation speed is done based on lower bits of the tick counter, etc
16:52:31 <JGR> It's probably be easier to implement an unpause for N frames function
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17:00:54 <dP> cmclient has `cmstep <n>` command to unpause for n ticks
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17:06:04 <JGR> Hmm, think I might cherry-pick that
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17:39:23 <peter1138> LordAro, hmm, my heart rate de
17:39:29 <peter1138> doesn't go up so far any more...
17:40:08 <LordAro> peter1138: i managed to get mine to 180 for the first time in about a month on Weds
17:40:12 <peter1138> Seems my legs give in first.
17:40:52 <peter1138> Topped out at 165 today despite some climbs.
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17:42:24 <peter1138> Oh, 176 on Saturday, never noticed. Nevermind :D
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17:59:38 <LordAro> you're quite welcome.
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19:12:28 <LordAro> glx[d]: feel like updating #9720 ?
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19:43:02 <TallTyler> LordAro doing the lord’s work
19:43:22 <TallTyler> Preparing for a 13.0 release? 😛
19:43:32 <LordAro> my biannual "just approve everything that looks vaguely reasonable"
19:46:59 <TallTyler> There’s probably enough feature PRs for a 13.0 release, but they’d need significantly more review and testing than what you’re approving 😦
19:49:10 <peter1138> (wtf is "additive inverse of the value")
19:49:29 <TallTyler> 9709 is awaiting your re-review after I made the suggested changes 🙂
19:49:36 <nielsm> while you're at it, care to look at #9919 ? :)
19:49:47 <peter1138> ... one. No wonder.
19:51:13 <LordAro> the term is perfectly correct
19:51:17 <LordAro> just more usually applied to group theory
19:52:38 <LordAro> nielsm: 9919? i don't think you mean that
19:54:03 <nielsm> yes I do, the issue saying t that industries not giving advance warning before they close from inactivity is a bug
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19:57:43 <LordAro> i kinda agree with the issue tbh, it's a very irritating 'mechanic'
19:58:19 <LordAro> especially as primary industries have a certain amount of warning
19:58:27 <TallTyler> I also agree - it’s an irritating behavior that could be solved
19:58:53 <frosch> the news message is the closure
19:58:54 <nielsm> they are at minimum production
19:59:08 <TallTyler> Secondary industries are the problem I think
19:59:18 <frosch> razing of the building is delayed by 1 month or so, but it does not change anything
19:59:45 <frosch> anyway, we discussed the industry closure problem every 3 months for 15 years
19:59:48 <TallTyler> And those give notice of “imminent closure” of about a month, during which time cargo delivery doesn’t save them. That’s where I’d make the change, personally. Let a cargo delivery prevent closure.
19:59:51 <frosch> the problem is still the same: large maps
20:00:38 <TallTyler> Does the frozen economy type introduced in the past couple of years prevent secondary closure?
20:00:59 <LordAro> i suppose if we were to redefine all industries in ottd.grf to have some extended closure time, that would work?
20:01:03 <frosch> possible, don't remember
20:01:04 <LordAro> i'm not suggesting we actually do that, mind
20:04:18 <LordAro> right, my work here is done
20:04:45 <LordAro> i had originally wanted to actually fix some stuff, but after looking at 3 separate GUI bugs I lost the will to actually do anything with them
20:06:31 <TallTyler> Good reviews though, helped whittle my PR count down some 🙂
20:14:08 <frosch> TallTyler: btw. we can't do a release right now. there is a MSVC compiler bug, which probably breaks a lot. so we would first have to fix an older version :p
20:17:30 <andythenorth> oof, now considering doing easing and crap on this animation
20:17:34 <andythenorth> seriously overkill
20:20:29 <andythenorth> if animation is shortened and grf is reload
20:20:45 <andythenorth> the frame count might stay stuck above the animation length I think 😛
20:28:35 <glx[d]> frosch: we can use `windows-2019` image if a release is really needed
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20:40:24 <nielsm> ah right, have to be careful that any release builds made on windows aren't hit by that miscompile causing the -h switch to not work
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22:39:42 <andythenorth> dunno if .mov works yet 😛
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