IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-01-24
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08:34:42 <andythenorth> eh so objects don't have storage
08:35:24 <andythenorth> I guess I just consume a lot of IDs :P
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09:35:45 <Gustavo6046> how many IDs is it possible for you to consume?
09:36:52 <andythenorth> 255 seems to be max objects per game
09:40:21 <Gustavo6046> why are the hardcoded limits always so smol?
09:43:15 <andythenorth> they're not always
09:44:02 <Gustavo6046> my circadian rhythm is like a truck whose driver fell asleep on the wheel – it keeps veering off lane!
09:44:09 <Gustavo6046> andythenorth, I remember the cap for bridge types being something like 13
09:58:59 <Xaroth> Because TTD originates back from a time where RAM was counted in megabytes, not in gigabytes.
10:02:40 <LordAro> ah no, 4MB RAM requirements
10:04:15 <andythenorth> 64000 max objects per game
10:04:43 <andythenorth> but 4 views, so I can encode 1020 pieces of information via ID and view
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10:18:49 <peter1138> Grrr, spotify clipping :/
10:19:49 <Gustavo6046> LordAro, counting RAM in KB is from the 1980s, not 90s
10:20:23 <Gustavo6046> andythenorth, you mean 1024?
10:21:14 <andythenorth> the spec says 255
10:21:18 <andythenorth> one ID might be reserved
10:21:56 <andythenorth> / limited to 255 to allow extending Action3 with an extended byte later on.
10:27:07 <peter1138> Yeah, TTD's map and graphics would've been too much for the 640KB era.
10:28:26 * andythenorth wonders how much ram Railroad Tycoon 1 used
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10:29:08 <andythenorth> also is there a WASM version yet :P
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10:30:16 <andythenorth> ha 'Basic Economy'
10:30:22 <andythenorth> so that's where I stole it from for FIRS
10:31:04 <Gustavo6046> peter1138, that's a weird compliment for a game as basic as TTD
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11:27:02 <Timberwolf> TTD was advanced when it came out. (Well, TTO was). I think it's still one of the first games to require a baseline of 640x480 SVGA, no low-res VGA option at all.
11:28:13 <Timberwolf> Not sure what else there was before that. The Bullfrog high-res games (Syndicate, Populous 2, etc.) use the 16 colour high res mode of VGA, and while there was a version of Harrier which was SVGA-only that originally launched as a VGA 320x200 game.
11:33:20 <Timberwolf> Ah, of course. 7th Guest, one of that series of CD-ROM adventures where the first puzzle is "make it recognise your graphics card"
11:36:24 <nielsm> it requires SVGA, can use VESA if available, but also has configuration to use a different driver
11:36:49 <Timberwolf> Oh yes, good shout. I had that as well, should have remembered it.
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12:58:33 <SpComb> would that be the modern equivalent of requiring a 4k display? :)
13:04:17 <nielsm> or maybe rather requiring a GPU with hardware raytracing
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14:06:58 <Etua> How is 32 bit thing going?
14:18:31 <Etua> You wrote about raytraced TTD so I referenced the dead 32-bit graphics project that was later pushed to separate mods and which status I don't know.
14:20:10 <LordAro> in a manner of speaking
14:20:41 <LordAro> z/abase provide a baseset, and there are several 32bpp newgrfs
14:20:54 <LordAro> the old 32bpp-ez project is still dead though, last i checked
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18:33:37 <supermop_work> got a free trial of some professional landscape architecture modelling software
18:34:00 <supermop_work> but it has almost no hawaiian plants in its database
18:35:27 <supermop_work> so i guess ill just have to freehand draw these
18:43:19 <andythenorth> ok for lolz, I write a simple look-ahead-1 move pathfinder
18:43:37 <andythenorth> and it only has 8 directions (N, S, E, W, NE, SW, SE, NW)
18:43:53 <andythenorth> pylons, at least in the UK, just don't go straight
18:44:19 <andythenorth> they change direction a lot, dunno if it's topography, or where land could be purchased or what
18:45:20 <supermop_work> andythenorth: i can ask my dad (he worked with Yorkshire electricity in the 90s) but i believe it is partially due to no real eminent domain precedent there
18:45:37 <andythenorth> might well be land purchase then
18:45:45 <supermop_work> i don't think easments work the same way there
18:46:05 <andythenorth> in addition to e.g. roads, rail lines, buildings, watercourses etc
18:46:22 <andythenorth> iirc power lines in Canada were mostly straight, on the prairies
18:46:25 <supermop_work> also some part is probably just habit - english roads and property boundaries (non-roman) are also more freeflowing
18:46:29 <andythenorth> can't remember about the rockies
18:47:15 <supermop_work> well transmission lines dont go straight over the rockies, but they go straight over almost any other hill or mountain here
18:48:05 <supermop_work> even in hawaii where it boggles the mind how they got vehicles up the slope in the cut to emplace the towers
18:48:22 <andythenorth> heli placement :P
18:48:37 <andythenorth> also track hoe can climb most slopes
18:48:51 <supermop_work> you still need to cut all the trees up the hill under the lines
18:49:10 <supermop_work> in england its probably easiest to do that in a non-straight line
18:49:50 <supermop_work> but the slopes they can negotiate leads me to believe it has more to do with the legal customs around land and access than the topography
18:50:03 <supermop_work> because they do not shy away from hills here
18:50:39 <supermop_work> oddly england has nearly no trees to worry about tho...
18:50:53 <supermop_work> no idea what Scottland and wales are like
18:51:10 <supermop_work> but they are bumpier
18:54:35 <andythenorth> they would hand-fell the trees
18:54:48 <andythenorth> right of way felling
18:56:13 <supermop_work> maybe britons just don't like to walk in a straight line
18:56:40 <wiscii> we had the Roman Roads in the UK
18:56:44 <glx> straight lines are rare here :)
18:57:17 <wiscii> straight as an arrow for as far as the eye can see
18:58:00 <supermop_work> wiscii: as i said above, britons don't like straight lines so they didn't stick
18:58:20 <wiscii> but modern "town planners" heavily favour curves to straight lines
18:58:44 <supermop_work> US high voltage is very similar to roman road network - direct point to point plotting
18:58:58 <supermop_work> from plant to substation, etc
18:59:39 <supermop_work> you do see the occasional hard corner though
19:00:49 <wiscii> i think that stuudies have shown that roads with more twists (not hard, just kinks) have less accidents, due to keeping the driver more alert
19:00:51 <supermop_work> despite how recent enclosure act was, land and roads still seem to mostly follow early iron age or earlier pathways in UK
19:01:10 <supermop_work> roman engineering fads didn't take
19:01:50 <wiscii> roman engineering did take, big time!
19:02:03 <wiscii> just they didn't need that kind of road
19:03:11 <wiscii> look at the buildings of practically every town/city. the municpal buildings are almost always romanesque
19:03:26 <wiscii> unless they are new and built by a modern arcitect
19:04:41 <wiscii> (some would also say, that the FreeMasons of The City of London are direct decsendants of Roman conquerors)
19:05:38 <wiscii> in other words, the Romans never left England, ever..
19:07:16 <supermop_work> roman is a state of identity, once people stop calling themselves romans, the romans are gone
19:07:39 <wiscii> that depends very much on who you ask
19:07:52 <wiscii> Rome is still there and Romans live thier
19:08:44 <supermop_work> yep, they live there. not sure how many londonders call themselves citizens of the roman empire though
19:08:52 <supermop_work> my guess is about 20?
19:09:39 <wiscii> ok - You are not familiar with The City of London. Not to be confused with Greater London
19:10:29 <wiscii> The City of London was not conquered by William the Conqueror and is the first ever City State (That I know of) Pre-dating the Vatican by ~500 years
19:10:40 <supermop_work> i didn't say residents of city of london
19:11:28 <supermop_work> i said londoners - that is people who consider their identity as being tied to London in general
19:11:54 <wiscii> The City of London has had an immeasurable effect on the rest of the UK, with or without our knowledge and/or consent
19:12:04 <wiscii> and it is still going on today
19:12:46 <supermop_work> and i am aware of the unique early medeval political situation of The City, it really is has nothing to do with the point i was making
19:13:03 <wiscii> There is also some interesting history between US and City of London .. Washigton DC for example (Another independent City State) ...
19:13:32 <supermop_work> DC isn't independent
19:13:58 <wiscii> I was simply arguing that there is a lot more Roman in the UK than you might first imagine or even notice
19:14:12 <wiscii> apparently DC is independent
19:14:37 <supermop_work> tell that to they people there who do not get to vote for president or congress
19:15:16 <frosch123> does the city of london have a mint and can release its own coins?
19:15:50 <supermop_work> and for whom part of their city policies are stipulated by politicians elected by people thousands of miles away
19:16:01 <frosch123> san marino and friends had their own euro coins
19:16:21 <wiscii> The City of London is (to my knowledge) the "Bearer of the Bond", where the Queen used to say "I promise to pay the sum of one pound" ..
19:16:24 <frosch123> so maybe city of london had their own pounds
19:17:08 <wiscii> the city of london engaged in Fractional Loans when they were still illegal
19:17:25 <wiscii> it's all very complicated, as these things always are
19:17:52 <supermop_work> wiscii: I lived in the UK long enough to visit all sorts of Roman ruins and drive along roman roads, and meet eccentric classics teachers romanticizing the Romano-British past
19:18:13 <supermop_work> but i never met someone who claimed to be a citizen of the roman empire
19:18:32 <wiscii> you did not meet a citizen of The City of London
19:18:35 <supermop_work> i am sure that a city as big as london has a few such delusional people
19:19:53 <supermop_work> of the few thousand people who live in the square mile I don't think i've ever heard of one claiming to be a citizen of the roman empire
19:20:04 <wiscii> I am sure, if you met enough people and asked them about their family tree you would find that a certain class of people can usually trace their line back to Romans living in the UK
19:20:15 <supermop_work> nor that the city of london is a sucessor state to the empire
19:20:40 <supermop_work> yeah that's not what i am talking about
19:20:52 <supermop_work> just like i don't say i am a viking
19:21:20 <wiscii> the City of London is the Original City, which was not conquered by Willian. The treaty that followed had one claus: The City of London shall not conspire to assasinate the regning monarch
19:21:31 <wiscii> that was the only condition they would agree to
19:21:51 <wiscii> and it has never changed
19:21:55 <supermop_work> this is like some sovereign citizen shit
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19:23:18 <supermop_work> none of this has anything to do with 1)roman building traditions in Briton, 2) customary division of land in Briton, or 3) identity of Londoners as Roman Citizens
19:23:25 <wiscii> The reason that large Global Corps and Banks like to headquarter themselves in The City of London, is because then they do not have to pay TAX
19:23:55 <wiscii> sorry, supermop_work sure, i'll leave it there, sorry to side track you :)
19:24:34 <supermop_work> global banks headquarter themselves in large cities with large volumes of financial trade and commensurate supplies of workers and customers
19:26:13 <supermop_work> global banks don't headquarter themselves Lubec Maine because there is no business there nor any bankers to work there
19:26:30 <wiscii> if the City of London was not an On-Shore Tax haven then the UK would be as poor as Poland
19:27:59 <wiscii> and it makes no difference where a bank et al decide to head quarter themselves, they just ship in their own staff
19:28:32 <wiscii> it just so happens that there are lots of educated people in the UK because it has a long history of education
19:28:50 <wiscii> and a nice cosy on-shore tax haven ...
19:29:12 <supermop_work> there are plenty of banks within 300m of where i sit right now, and the taxes here are also relatively high
19:29:49 <supermop_work> these banks could move their domicile to Texas or another low-tax jurisdiction
19:30:13 <wiscii> why bother when they have total tax immunity
19:30:36 <wiscii> anyway, plenty of counties/cities tempt businesses with tax breaks
19:30:51 <wiscii> just so happens The City of London Tax break is NO TAX
19:31:35 <supermop_work> so the argument is banks are only in london because it has no tax, but also banks don't pay tax anywhere else anyway?
19:32:26 <supermop_work> and not that a settlement that has been a mercantile center for about 2000+ years would naturally develop a robust financial industry
19:32:30 <LordAro> this sounds suspiciously like conspiratorial nonsense
19:32:52 <wiscii> look it up -- The City of London and the Free Masons
19:32:55 <supermop_work> LordAro: yeah like i said this sounds like some sovereign citizen stuff
19:33:08 <LordAro> wiscii: ah, "do your own research" ?
19:33:26 <LordAro> you made the claims, you provide the sources
19:33:28 <wiscii> no .. sure, i can discuss it :)
19:33:32 <LordAro> that aren't a youtube video
19:33:45 <wiscii> i'm just saying, if you don't beliieve me it is not all that hard to verify
19:34:07 <wiscii> You could try reading the Magna Carter ..
19:34:33 <LordAro> ok, now you're definitely spouting conspiratorial nonsense
19:34:35 <supermop_work> yes Big Carter, my nickname for jimmy Carter
19:34:47 <wiscii> lol Magna CArta :) happy
19:35:28 <LordAro> the Magna Carta has not been a valid legal document in approximately 500 years
19:35:36 <wiscii> well, that's where it started, the rest is history of the last 1000 years
19:35:40 <LordAro> merely a historical artefact
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19:36:30 <supermop_work> also like, what the hell is the argument here? that london should not have a finacial sector? that it should be dissolved?
19:36:37 <wiscii> So then, do you consider that tThe City of London state is just a historical artifact of no further value ?
19:36:50 <supermop_work> people are still going to live and work there
19:37:18 <LordAro> in all practicalities? sure.
19:37:28 <supermop_work> Nuke London referendum that only those who live outside the m25 get to vote in?
19:37:40 <andythenorth> oh did the channel fall in a lol hole?
19:37:46 <wiscii> the only reason I was saying any of this is because supermop_work did not think the UK had any straight roads ;-)
19:37:47 <andythenorth> I only stepped away to eat chicken
19:37:47 <LordAro> it's as meaningful as the law that says i can kill a Scotsman with a longbow within York's city walls
19:38:04 <andythenorth> you are legally obliged to shoot welshmen in hereford
19:38:09 <andythenorth> maybe not morally
19:38:54 <wiscii> LordAro: that is not the case -- The City of London has maintain total sovereignty of it's land since 1066
19:39:18 <wiscii> it is not officially part of the UK
19:39:26 <supermop_work> wiscii: please read what i said - which was that in post roman briton, britons prefered not to build straight roads and instead followed the customary method of following terrain and traditional pathways
19:39:30 <wiscii> or rather is officially not part of the UK
19:39:56 <wiscii> the City of London also owns Tower Bridge and The Bank of England
19:39:58 <supermop_work> wiscii: last time i checked they didn't ask for my passport at the westminster border
19:40:10 <LordAro> I'm pretty sure you're a good few hundred years out of date
19:40:12 <andythenorth> what is 'officially' and what is 'the UK'?
19:40:19 <wiscii> there is a treaty between the two
19:41:13 <wiscii> however, if the reigning Monarch should enter The City of London without first getting permission from their Mayor then that is considered to be an act of war in FULL
19:41:54 <supermop_work> who is the commander in chief of the city of London's Army?
19:42:14 <andythenorth> is all this nonsense arising because City of London is a Corporation?
19:42:27 <wiscii> I should think it would be The Grand Master of whatever lodge is in charge of military
19:42:38 <andythenorth> and is not arranged conventionally in the UK local governance system?
19:42:53 <wiscii> oh yeah and the City of London is also a Corporation
19:43:01 <supermop_work> andythenorth: admiralty courts, posse comitas and all that
19:43:47 <supermop_work> wiscii: so which of those drinking clubs has the biggest standing army
19:44:12 <wiscii> The City of ondon do have their own army. They are like Policemen only they work for a private firm and the uniform is ever so slight;y different, tho almost the same as a regula police officer
19:44:34 <wiscii> They work for The City of London Corp in fcat
19:45:36 <supermop_work> and those officers are not UK citizens?
19:46:00 <wiscii> yes, theya are UK citizens who work for The City of London Corp
19:46:46 <wiscii> they have no legitimate power boyond the gates of TCOL
19:46:47 <supermop_work> and who are tasked with repelling an invasion of this corporation by the Royal Army?
19:47:08 <wiscii> well .. no, that's part of the treaty
19:47:20 <wiscii> we won't attack you if you don't attack us ..
19:47:44 <andythenorth> there are some elements of truth in this
19:47:59 <andythenorth> but they seem to have been inverted as to ruling facts
19:48:21 <andythenorth> TCOL is a specific entity within a sovereign state
19:48:29 <andythenorth> the sovereign state is the UK
19:49:05 <andythenorth> certain privileges have been negotiated by, or granted to TCOL
19:49:45 <supermop_work> and this means the city's 10,000 residents are not UK citizens, and get their passports from a Guild lodge and are also Romans? or maybe members of the Hanseatic league?
19:49:48 <andythenorth> these reflect limited jurisdiction over a specific geographical area
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19:52:33 <andythenorth> citizens of TCOL are citizens of the UK
19:53:17 <wiscii> There is a lot of differing prose on the subject but it all boils down to the same single fact: The City of London was not physically conquered, allthough the details of what did transpire are somewhat up for discussion
19:54:01 <andythenorth> Birmingham wasn't physically conquered either
19:54:13 <andythenorth> it's a meaningless statement
19:54:38 <wiscii> There is also a hideuos abuse going on regarding the citizens of TCOL. They do not exist and their votes are kind of sold to the highest bidder
19:54:58 <andythenorth> they just don't have a conventional system of local elections
19:55:22 <LordAro> tbf, Birmingham didn't exist (as anywhere notable) in 1066
19:56:08 <andythenorth> UK is not Italian mainland in the time of Machiavelli
19:56:26 <andythenorth> UK wasn't assembled by using Swiss mercenaries to conquer walled cities
19:59:49 <wiscii> ok, i don't think I've mentioned this here before: Great Pyramid K-2019. A 3.5 hour free documentary about the history of Egypt -- A Fantastic film
19:59:52 <andythenorth> Magna Carta is not a particularly foundational document for UK constitution
19:59:58 <andythenorth> it's just famous
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20:00:11 <supermop_work> andythenorth: maybe they should try that next time?
20:00:34 <andythenorth> it's funny what the internet has done
20:00:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: what is this "UK constitution" you speak of?
20:00:50 <andythenorth> when I was younger stuff like Chariots of The Gods was great
20:00:58 <andythenorth> or the Titanic conspiracy book
20:01:06 <andythenorth> but you got the book, read the book, moved on
20:01:17 <LordAro> UK constitution is better known as "800 years of case law"
20:01:27 <wiscii> check out that K2019 film -- it's amazing
20:01:27 <andythenorth> but the internet has the power to really suck in donuts and keep them talking about nonsense
20:01:33 <supermop_work> andythenorth: loads of fun i work in WTC& these days
20:02:11 <andythenorth> ^ these were great
20:02:18 <andythenorth> but as entertainment
20:04:09 <wiscii> if you believe the current myth about how the pyramids were built with hand cut stones lifted by aliens to the top of the pyramid then
20:04:35 <supermop_work> speaking of conspiracies, why cant i get any N scale Class 43s in Executive Livery
20:04:49 <wiscii> if you feel like there must be a more reasonable way, because like they did build them no doubt of that, then check out k-2019
20:06:57 <LordAro> i have no idea of the content of that video, but it's a bit telling that i can find nothing reputable referencing either the documentary or "Fehmi Krasniqi"
20:07:03 <LordAro> it might have good ideas, i have no idea
20:07:16 <FLHerne> Does anyone believe "the current myth" about aliens?
20:07:33 <FLHerne> Being more plausible than that is a pretty low bar
20:08:23 <wiscii> LordAro: iit has only been translated from french by one year. Payed for out of one guys pocket, so it's gonna be a bit rough edged
20:09:33 <wiscii> it is a serious documentary, so it is there for discussion, not monetized etc
20:09:50 <TrueBrain> I guess we have to extend "latest is not a valid version" by "the current" is not a valid myth :P
20:09:56 <wiscii> but it takes time to get people to watch it
20:11:34 <LordAro> "Just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale most appeals to you"
20:11:53 <LordAro> youtube videos are not the usual way proper academics publicise their work
20:12:33 <andythenorth> let's make pathfinders
20:13:09 <TrueBrain> sorry, my Pathfinder quota for OpenTTD has been reached
20:13:18 <andythenorth> you made 17 already?
20:13:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: interesting book, never heard of it
20:13:45 <wiscii> LordAro: considering the lies the Egyptian govt. is responsible for, i think people who want to challenge their indoctrination have to try anything and everything to get herad
20:13:59 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 3 that are actively used; that is enough for me :P
20:14:55 <LordAro> Eygptian govt is no doubt responsible for quite a lot of Bad Things. I'm not sure "control of the world's academia" is one of them
20:15:27 <wiscii> that very point is addressed in the program ..
20:15:34 <supermop_work> big come up for egyptian goverment
20:16:29 <_dp_> what do I need to define to get cargo subtype refits to show up? I have cb19 and strings already
20:16:36 <wiscii> it's not like it's a secret .. look at the lies they have to tell to make their story even look half not wonky !
20:16:51 <supermop_work> do people outside of egypt really go to the government of egypt for any information at all?
20:17:28 <wiscii> if you want to study egeptology and see the artfacts etc then you have to go via their agencies
20:17:52 <TrueBrain> do they sell tinfoilhats before you enter the building, or after? I can never remember :P trololol
20:18:02 <wiscii> and they like to decline work which wants to contradict their pov.
20:18:11 <LordAro> TrueBrain: "trololol"? are you from 2010?
20:18:13 <frosch123> _dp_: callbac-flags property
20:18:51 <supermop_work> i also have to buy a ticket from an official greek institution to visit the acropolis museum
20:19:32 <supermop_work> and the Cambodian government tries to stop you hauling off bit of ankor wat!
20:20:00 <supermop_work> (not 100% effective on that last one tho looking at the state of those temples...)
20:20:38 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am not -that- young, but thank you very much!
20:20:38 <_dp_> frosch123, oh, didn't expect "show a suffix after the cargo type name" to be it xD
20:21:28 <frosch123> just go by the "variable 0c value" column
20:22:55 <andythenorth> ok I have written 0 pathfinders
20:23:01 <andythenorth> so I want to catch up
20:28:59 <_dp_> reminds me of my rail pathfinder that I'd really like to have but don't want to code
20:30:23 <TrueBrain> but is it then actually yours?
20:32:59 <LordAro> very few sources, and most of what's there suggest it's "widely debunked"
20:33:04 <LordAro> you're not selling me here
20:34:00 <LordAro> "Conversely, Dr Hans-Dieter von Senff, who graduated from the University of Newcastle with a PhD, claims that ...
20:34:06 <LordAro> what even is that sentence
20:34:55 <wiscii> the original auther is french and had some help translating ..
20:34:56 <LordAro> even the source describes him as "amateur Egyptologist"
20:35:51 <supermop_work> if hieroglyphics were actually found in Australia, what would be the take away from that? Like what would that change in your day to day lifr
20:36:02 <wiscii> LordAro: tell you what, if you watch the whole thing then you can say what-ever you like .. but right now i feel your simply pooh-poohing it off-hand, because reasons ..
20:36:19 <LordAro> it's complete nonsense
20:36:38 <wiscii> sure, no problem. I disagree but that's fine :)
20:37:11 <supermop_work> wiscii: there needs to be a reason to devote time to watch it, especially if it is so outside of what is typically credible
20:38:00 <LordAro> conspiracy stuff always asks you to prove a negative
20:38:14 <wiscii> supermop_work: sure, each to their own and it is a long program. if you are curious then watch it, if not then not. And i don't mind the micky-take ;-) all part of life :P
20:38:17 <LordAro> like, prove to me that the moon isn't made of cheese
20:38:30 <LordAro> apollo moon rocks? fake
20:38:42 <TrueBrain> can we talk about that now?
20:38:44 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD shows it is true!
20:39:04 <LordAro> TrueBrain: best not talk about the spacetime curvature of OTTD's landscape
20:39:07 <TrueBrain> just imagine andythenorth has to make a PF that corrected for curvature!
20:39:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: ha! I don't want to be hit by that bus :P
20:39:25 <frosch123> studies at unseen university have proven that spherical worlds don't work
20:39:35 <frosch123> the inhabitants always kill themself after some time
20:40:16 <LordAro> oh! you've just reminded me of the dr who episode that did "the world is a simulation"
20:40:32 <frosch123> no, that's the matrix
20:40:40 <LordAro> everyone killed themselves after they realised there was no "randomness" in the world
20:40:43 <andythenorth> TrueBrain grand circle route?
20:40:55 <LordAro> which was implemented by "everyone can guess exactly the same number at the same time"
20:41:13 <LordAro> clearly the writer had heard "computers can't actually do random numbers" and just ran with it
20:41:39 <TrueBrain> the simulation part ofc is true LordAro
20:41:42 <TrueBrain> the rest is bollocks :P
20:42:28 <LordAro> oh even better, it starts with an ancient text from the Vatican
20:42:31 <wiscii> i haven't watched Dr Who since Tom Baker
20:42:38 <frosch123> LordAro: the book andy linked earlier was written by some weird german. when the publisher got it, they gave it to a third guy to fix the writing
20:43:07 <frosch123> "the draft was written by some overly-emotional non-writer"
20:43:57 <frosch123> when the book was successful, some french guy sued them for copying from him
20:44:19 <frosch123> they defended by showing that the french guy had copied themself from yet another one :p
20:44:49 <TrueBrain> that is a pretty strong defense :P
20:44:55 <wiscii> also sounds similar to the plot of "The Edge of Tomorrow"
20:45:33 <wiscii> "an enemy that controls time cannot be beaten.."
20:46:21 <frosch123> in every good book the enemies beat themself in the end
20:46:58 <TrueBrain> did anyone really? :P
20:47:15 <supermop_work> wiscii: if the claim of the video is that the egyptian government is lying to me about pyramids, it's already hard to think about why i should make a special case to watch it because 1) i spend very little time thinking about pyramids, 2) pyramids have almost no relation to my life, and 3) almost none of the information i've studied about pyramids has anything to do with the modern egyptian government
20:47:20 <frosch123> i built it in civ3 a few times
20:47:36 <frosch123> hmm, or was it civ1?
20:47:57 <frosch123> i think it gave free baracks in every city or somethign
20:47:57 <wiscii> supermop_work: sure. It's done now :)
20:48:26 <TrueBrain> supermop_work: you are missing out; thinking about pyramids is fun!
20:48:37 <wiscii> sounds about right, free barracks and upgrade until gunpowder or something
20:48:43 <frosch123> triangle or square pyramids?
20:49:03 <wiscii> hehehe :) why not round ?
20:49:21 <frosch123> wiscii: that's a "cone"
20:49:38 <wiscii> of course .. half and half and half again
20:50:53 <wiscii> who invented/discovered the centimeter ?
20:51:12 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol, I have the same thing in my vacation bag :P
20:51:21 <TrueBrain> drives my nephew crazy :D
20:51:48 <wiscii> i would have all the sides the same colour :P
20:51:52 <frosch123> TrueBrain: can he fix it if you only turn the 4 corners?
20:52:14 <wiscii> frosch123: not the french ;-)
20:52:19 <TrueBrain> he is 8 .. his reasoning is .. euh .. special :P
20:52:42 <TrueBrain> it was the Egyptians, right?
20:54:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: technically we all have equiptan ancestors
20:54:24 <wiscii> if you like to humour me: There was also a BBC documentary that discussed the "French" discovery of the CM and that it was a unit of measure centuries ago but that nobody knows where it came from" or words to that effect. Because the Beeb was a bit anti-french at the time
20:54:36 <TrueBrain> I love the r/woosh effect that just happened
20:57:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have so many ancestors I lost count!
20:57:51 <frosch123> they grow slower than exponential per generation
20:58:01 <frosch123> there is always some incest after some tmie
20:58:02 <TrueBrain> you calling me short?
20:58:19 <TrueBrain> lol, that is nasty frosch123 ; but true :P
20:58:23 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think he's calling you inbred
20:59:06 <TrueBrain> "It was also more socially acceptable to marry people who were related to you, which is demonstrated by the fact that was many as 80% of historical marriages were between people who were were second cousins or closer."
20:59:44 <LordAro> smaller groups, not much travelling, etc etc
21:01:54 <frosch123> LordAro: do you know your position on the list of heirs to the crown?
21:02:56 <LordAro> there is a family tree somewhere that manages to join up the Edward III or someone around then
21:03:36 <frosch123> are you in the top 10% of british citizen?
21:03:48 <TrueBrain> what a weird question to ask :P
21:03:56 <supermop_work> TrueBrain: historically you probably only ever interacted with a couple hundred people
21:04:19 <TrueBrain> I alone interacted with a couple of hundred people :P
21:04:22 <TrueBrain> might have been my jobs ...
21:04:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: every british person who is not a recent immigrant is related to the first english king, and thus a potential heir
21:04:35 <TrueBrain> or does standing on a stage for 1000+ people not count?
21:04:43 <LordAro> besides, after the first 10 or so it becomes "whomever parliament wants"
21:05:07 <frosch123> really? did that change or did cgpgrey lie?
21:05:13 <andythenorth> ok pathfinders :P
21:05:42 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: be careful what you wish for
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21:06:11 <FLHerne> We might be lucky WoT can't be modded extensively
21:06:32 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: they always come back to us
21:09:09 <TrueBrain> political correct way of saying things like that? :P
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21:38:10 <andythenorth> GS can't find it
21:42:58 <supermop_work> how many trees are there?
21:44:40 <andythenorth> do we really not have math module in AI and GS?
21:45:23 <_dp_> there are tree layout charts for all climates in docs folder
21:45:35 <andythenorth> _dp_ you used ternaries to do math.abs() ?
21:46:39 <andythenorth> sense of humour failure
21:47:27 <supermop_work> how do i read this graph _dp_
21:47:40 <andythenorth> is math missing because we can't allow floating point or something
21:48:15 <_dp_> need to remember myself :)
21:48:40 <_dp_> it shows which trees can appear together on a tile
21:49:10 <_dp_> direction also means something but not very significant
21:49:51 <_dp_> but in tropic for example you see 14-15 being separate, that's desert "trees"
21:50:19 <_dp_> also if you enable debug trees newgrfs it shows tree numbers
21:53:11 <supermop_work> i guess that could be usefull
21:53:39 <supermop_work> i mostly just want to figure out how many total trees i have to draw
21:54:11 <supermop_work> and how many are 'rainforest' or whatever
21:54:32 <_dp_> every circle is a tree type
21:56:30 <_dp_> iirc it's 19 temperate trees, 8 arctic, 18 tropic 10 of which are shared with temperate, 9 toyland
21:58:04 <supermop_work> hmm the tropic one, i can't really tell what is rainforest or not?
21:58:22 <_dp_> hm... or 8 are shared... or none at all, don't remember actually xD
21:58:43 <_dp_> yeah, it doesn't show rainforest
21:58:53 <supermop_work> i don't think any are shared tbh
21:58:58 <_dp_> you can just try planting them in rainforest I guess in the game
21:59:15 <supermop_work> ah im still at work so i can't
22:10:32 <andythenorth> does this mean no math.rand() in GS also?
22:10:58 <andythenorth> GSBase.Rand() then
22:11:38 <glx> GS uses interactive random
22:12:04 <_dp_> also it's running only on the server anyway :p
22:12:33 <glx> yeah and any important change to game state are done via commands
22:24:35 <_dp_> yeah, on that tree chart arrow a->b means that if you plant tree type b on a tile you can get type a as well
22:25:00 <_dp_> and some trees can't be planted (ones that don't have a->a)
22:25:21 <_dp_> but can join other types
22:32:04 <andythenorth> lol my terrible 45 degree pathfinder works
22:32:20 <andythenorth> it's not even implemented properly, but result is ok
22:32:44 <andythenorth> has some odd cases
22:36:04 <andythenorth> lol compression in OpenTTD
22:36:20 <andythenorth> 10 tiles _ looks much longer than 10 tiles \ or /
22:37:09 <supermop_work> show us dem pylons
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23:19:34 <andythenorth> kind of hard to see in a screenshot :P
23:20:15 <andythenorth> also sleep time :)
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