IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-01-21
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00:36:13 <wiscii> needs a sound manager ^
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12:42:28 <_dp_> is there some other docs on how real sprites are encoded in grf?
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16:27:32 <andythenorth> or is that frogs?
16:31:33 <peter1138> Helmet camera, top or side?
16:31:49 <peter1138> Thinking top would be better for weight balance.
16:32:22 <andythenorth> get one eye surgically replaced?
16:32:27 <andythenorth> probably not a quick job
16:35:26 <LordAro> are the cameras heavy enough to be noticeable?
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16:39:29 <peter1138> Drift Ghost XL, went for the larger one as it's waterproof without an extra case.
16:39:40 <peter1138> Although it is not massive.
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17:06:22 <_dp_> "This property must be set after property 00 to take effect." <- Does that mean prop 00 also has to be defined?
17:06:42 <_dp_> or just that prop 0 will override it if declared after
17:09:26 <frosch123> the second will overwrite the first one
17:09:42 <frosch123> basically: just ignore 00 and never set it
17:11:14 <frosch123> if in doubt, look at nml :p
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17:31:46 <peter1138> You would set 00 and conditionally set 1F if you wanted to waste effort making a file compatible with ancient versions.
17:33:26 <_dp_> luckily I'm only interested in decompiling ancient versions, not making them
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18:45:43 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:52:59 <supermop_work> its not a tube but it is rounded and weird
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19:31:05 <frosch123> do you want that risc-5 board?
19:32:43 <frosch123> hmm, that mail went to my box, not to info@, so no idea who else got it
19:33:36 <TrueBrain> but I have 3 Risc V boards at home ... still haven't tried it ... I miss free time :P
19:33:46 <frosch123> well, some chinese risc-v manufacturer's marketing team likes openttd, and want to provide a development board
19:34:08 <TrueBrain> want to try run OpenTTD on it? :D
19:34:34 <frosch123> yeah, it's weird, but the mail is too specifically crafted to be spam
19:35:50 <TrueBrain> it is a nice gesture for sure :)
19:36:15 <TrueBrain> I sitll have to find a simple breakout board for these ESP C3s .. but it is difficult .. tempted to make one myself ..
19:36:21 <TrueBrain> all breakout boards for them are HUGE
19:36:25 <TrueBrain> like 3 times the size of the chip
19:36:28 <TrueBrain> which is such a waste
20:00:57 <TrueBrain> did we ever test Sonarcloud on the OpenTTD codebase ....
20:01:28 <TrueBrain> let's make a test for it :D
20:02:35 <frosch123> rb ran coverty 10 years ago
20:04:34 <TrueBrain> recently he did too
20:04:38 <Rubidium> coverty? You mean coverity?
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20:08:35 <Rubidium> then the last time it ran was in may. Our code sadly gives quite a few false positives
20:10:07 <TrueBrain> and I find the results hard to understand .. interface is a bit .. 1990 :P
20:10:30 <andythenorth> do I have a Risc V?
20:11:08 <andythenorth> I tried Snyk recently for automated code vulns and deps
20:11:11 <andythenorth> wasn't convinced
20:11:56 <Rubidium> lgtm has a number of things we should look at as well, though the largest amount of cases are somewhat false-positive-ish as well
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20:13:06 <andythenorth> aware of any others? o_O
20:13:17 <andythenorth> this is a thing I am interested in
20:17:37 <glx> template is there for a reason ;)
20:18:04 <TrueBrain> always hard to see if someone is trolling or not if there are cabbages involved
20:19:24 <andythenorth> it's my standard reminder for 'not finished'
20:19:45 <andythenorth> I'll do the template, forget that
20:21:03 <TrueBrain> so on the front of rreviewing yourself, I have to rate you with an D
20:27:30 <andythenorth> thanks for your review of my review
20:27:47 <andythenorth> can I review your review of my review?
20:28:08 <andythenorth> this GS stuff might be a big source of lol
20:28:35 <andythenorth> shame we didn't add the NewGRF part 5 years ago, instead of arguing about it every 2nd Saturday for all that time :D
20:28:37 <TrueBrain> have you read any of the NewGRF conversations I had the last few .. weeks? Pretty sure you have a high bar to top :P
20:29:04 <andythenorth> so glad there's nobody in the channel currently saying 'but andythenorth GS must never know about NewGRF, on principle'
20:29:18 <andythenorth> I sense many adventures ahead
20:29:24 <andythenorth> mostly around performance and state
20:29:59 <glx> oh GS can know about newgrf, but you may need to update for every newgrf
20:30:00 <andythenorth> TrueBrain asking you to learn grf has been every bit as entertaining as we predicted :)
20:30:11 <TrueBrain> and then some, I am sure :P
20:30:26 <andythenorth> glx when TrueBrain does presets, it will all be fine, right? :)
20:30:30 <andythenorth> or we clone TrueBrain
20:30:34 <andythenorth> or someone else does presets
20:30:56 <andythenorth> we could just try selling NFTs
20:31:02 <glx> presets won't prevent "broken" newgrf version bumps
20:31:05 <TrueBrain> and hope it gives us the rights to Dune, right?
20:31:17 <TrueBrain> what a silly story that was ..
20:31:26 <andythenorth> glx Eddi did explain to me once how it's impossible to do dependencies into the future
20:31:36 <andythenorth> Eddi is usually correct
20:32:17 <andythenorth> that's the one they thought they bought the copyright?
20:32:38 <TrueBrain> yeah, although now claim they never did think that
20:32:43 <glx> but with bad newgrf authors you could have same grfid with incompatible content
20:32:59 <andythenorth> I am only going to use the content from the FIRS that generated the GS
20:33:08 <andythenorth> other people can make their own choices
20:33:25 <andythenorth> I am going to do some quite unfriendly version checking
20:33:26 <TrueBrain> NewGRF with embedded GS when?
20:33:30 <TrueBrain> GS with embedded NewGRF?
20:33:37 <andythenorth> you said it was just presets
20:33:43 <andythenorth> I have a monorepo
20:33:45 <frosch123> GS to RST transpiler, when?
20:34:01 <andythenorth> python GS compiler to GS to RPN in Rust
20:34:01 <TrueBrain> NewGRF extension for loops, when?
20:34:12 <andythenorth> arbitrary loops?
20:34:18 <andythenorth> don't tease me :(
20:34:31 <TrueBrain> 23 minutes to analyze OpenTTD locally with sonarcloud .. now the cloud is looking at it
20:34:55 <glx> you really want to allow infinite loops in something coming from outside ?
20:35:13 <TrueBrain> we are not allowed to change OpenTTD anymore
20:35:14 <TrueBrain> this is the perfect LoC!
20:35:14 <andythenorth> well I have seen other platforms that have a max loop or max recursion depth
20:35:36 <TrueBrain> I like how glx is like: either no loops, or INFINITE!
20:35:51 <glx> well infinite loops may happen
20:36:03 <TrueBrain> if only we had ways to prevent them :P
20:36:14 <TrueBrain> specially for Rubidium 's collection of SAST resulsts :)
20:36:50 <andythenorth> let's do some of my repos
20:36:52 <glx> "code smells" <-- that's a nice term
20:37:04 <andythenorth> new to you glx? :)
20:37:08 <andythenorth> does it have a french equivalent?
20:37:28 <andythenorth> do we have a Sonarcloud account, or do I have to create a burner to test FIRS? :P
20:38:45 * andythenorth creates a burner
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20:39:31 <frosch123> not sure whether they provide analysis of newgrf
20:39:34 <TrueBrain> "The left operand of '!=' is a garbage value"
20:42:10 <TrueBrain> "Hard-coded credentials are security-sensitive." .... ' password_state = "AI";'
20:42:13 <TrueBrain> I get it, okay, but .. no :P
20:43:55 <TrueBrain> newgrf.cpp has highest technical depth :D
20:44:18 <glx> we could easily try CodeQL
20:44:20 <andythenorth> these are similar issues to the ones Snyk found on work stuff :P
20:44:41 <andythenorth> basically everywhere the creds were evaluated it went nuts
20:44:53 <andythenorth> including some stuff that was used to ban obvious default creds :P
20:44:58 <andythenorth> password="admin"
20:45:02 <andythenorth> or that kind of thing
20:45:14 <TrueBrain> CodeQL does the same for several OpenTTD's Python projects. Pretty normal .. just a one time "won't fix" action :)
20:45:31 <andythenorth> bet CodePilot doesn't have this problem!
20:45:53 * andythenorth wonders if CodePilot is basically inverse CodeQL
20:48:30 <andythenorth> this looks quite interesting though
20:49:13 <andythenorth> oh I can Sonarcloud translation PRs
20:49:20 <andythenorth> currently I have to manually read them
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20:58:50 <Rubidium> glx: isn't codeql what fills lgtm.com?
21:05:20 <Rubidium> looks like there are plenty false positives in SAST. Though happy there are no security vulnerabilities!
21:09:59 <_dp_> _settings_game.vehicle.dynamic_engines
21:10:07 <_dp_> is that like a fun way to break vehicle grfs?
21:13:29 <frosch123> _dp_: it's a compatibility setting with ottd <= 0.6 or something
21:14:09 <frosch123> it's not supposed to be turned of for new games, but i guess there is nothing to enforce that :p
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21:19:59 <supermop_work> andythenorth: thats the one thats my attempt at redoing the original sprite
21:20:51 <supermop_work> doesn't look very hawaiian, but its basically 1/4 of the BMW headquarters with some Richard Rodgers-y trusses tacked on
21:22:18 <supermop_work> first one is a kenzo tange, 2nd and last ones are buildings in honolulu
21:22:47 <supermop_work> ill scale these down and the paint over them in photosho[
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21:30:43 <FLHerne> supermop_work: How about the last one of that, but without the bottom cylindrical section so the building is still hovering?
21:30:59 <FLHerne> (and an extra horizontal truss at base level)
21:31:24 <FLHerne> assume the lifts and stairs are in the rear block
21:33:36 <FLHerne> and the yellow trusses support the main tower
21:37:31 <wiscii> sorry for O.T. but does anybody here know the syntax for a comment in .json file ?
21:38:39 <frosch123> there is no such thing
21:39:09 <frosch123> it's a serialisation format, not a source file
21:39:18 <wiscii> well, that would explain why i can find it
21:39:39 <wiscii> the best option i found so far is '//' but iguess it then depends on what reads it
21:40:22 <FLHerne> If you have a // it's not JSON
21:40:45 <wiscii> sure, i understand your point
21:41:11 <wiscii> this is for firefox policies.json and firefox does not mind the // comment
21:41:23 <FLHerne> I've seen `comment: "here is some text"` but that's a bit silly
21:41:37 <supermop_work> FLHerne there is no structural need for that ground floor, true
21:41:43 <FLHerne> and Firefox might mind that
21:41:52 <supermop_work> but that's some prime retail space to rent out!
21:42:38 <FLHerne> supermop_work: planning rules demand x area of public open space ;-)
21:42:48 <FLHerne> same reason the Gherkin tapers down at the base
21:43:19 <FLHerne> and we all know how petty and anti-development OTTD's local authorities are
21:43:32 <supermop_work> FLHerne: in new york that public space can be allowed to be indoors, atrium or winter garden
21:43:42 <supermop_work> if you get a variance
21:44:23 <FLHerne> Ok, but Fingfingbridge City Council doesn't allow such variances :p
21:46:05 <_dp_> is there a way to use generic (16bit) offset in action 4 with vehicles?
21:46:10 <FLHerne> unless you bribe them for £15,000,000
21:46:33 <FLHerne> but that comes with the Severe Consequences of a small chance that you won't be allowed to bribe them again for a while
21:46:35 <_dp_> there is a special case for that in the code but it just does the same as non-vehicle but without any range checks
21:46:59 <_dp_> and I suppose there is no way to know vehicle index when writing grf?
21:48:59 <TrueBrain> wiscii: use JSONC / JSON-C / JSON5, and use // for comments .. like all sane people writing JSON manually :p
21:49:29 <TrueBrain> Most sane JSON implementation support that too ;)
21:51:17 <frosch123> _dp_: haha, that's another standard trap
21:51:24 <frosch123> the action4 specs are very confusing there
21:51:35 <frosch123> 16bit has nothing to do with "generic strings"
21:51:46 <frosch123> you can use 16bit action4 just fine for vehicles
21:51:56 <frosch123> feature 48 is what defines global strings
21:52:16 <_dp_> frosch123, looking at the code to use 16bit I need to somehow know e->index
21:52:25 <wiscii> www.json.org does not list any format for comments, so i presume that when it was designed they thought "we don't need comments" .. and then reality bit them on the as^D^D
21:52:34 <frosch123> no, it's just your local vehicle id
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21:53:19 <_dp_> but if set it by local id it doesn't match to the vehicle
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21:53:53 <_dp_> non-generic looks up the engine by local id, but generic doesn't
21:54:09 <TrueBrain> wiscii: it was a deliberate choice by the creator, with good reasons. But.. we are stubborn people
21:54:30 <frosch123> _dp_: newgrf.cpp:6024 converts the grf-local-id to global id
21:55:00 <_dp_> frosch123, yeah, but generic is in another branch
21:55:07 <frosch123> _dp_: oh wait, someone added extended byte there
21:55:22 <wiscii> TrueBrain: i can almost here the discussion now ;-) "we don't need comments because it speaks for itself" .. and then, "hey, how do i add a comment to explain this attribute pair?" .. dnag
21:55:24 <frosch123> ho, yet a different variant :p
21:55:38 <frosch123> ok, then do not set the generic-flag, and just use extended byte
21:55:48 <TrueBrain> wiscii: more: it is a serialisation format, comments only ask for abuse
21:55:52 <_dp_> frosch123, that much I figured
21:56:08 <_dp_> frosch123, I just don't understand why line 6029 exists xD
21:56:09 <frosch123> fine, so the generic strings are only callback results
21:56:10 <TrueBrain> But humans are like: no, I am going to write JSON myself
21:56:27 <frosch123> _dp_: text in purchase list, D4xx texts
21:56:41 <wiscii> TrueBrain: ok, i'll have to learn what serialisation means here (don't worry, I'm not in a rush ;-))
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21:58:47 <andythenorth> so for next trick....expose pathfinder to GS?
21:59:07 <_dp_> frosch123, ah, so to define strings that can be used in a callback?
22:00:17 <_dp_> can grf change some global strings with that? there doesn't seem to be any range checks xD
22:00:24 <andythenorth> I am curious if OpenTTD would handle pathfinding faster than GS :P
22:01:14 <frosch123> no, AddGRFStrings adds the strings specific to a newgrf, they do associate with the global strings
22:01:36 <frosch123> well, they do, but they are mapped into a different location
22:08:33 <glx> andythenorth: it would, but we intentionally refused to use internal pathfinder, has any internal command is "unlimited" and can have a huge impact on ticks length
22:09:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's obviously faster in in-game time, because ottd cannot suspend API calls, so ottd would jsut block until pathfinding is done :p
22:09:25 <andythenorth> I will explore the other pathfinders in GPL libs
22:09:34 <andythenorth> there seem to be a few
22:10:41 <andythenorth> maybe I will explore sleep first :P
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22:10:58 <andythenorth> I want to build a graph first, then pathfind the routes between it
22:11:04 <andythenorth> not sure how to do that :)
22:11:24 <andythenorth> but I do know how to sleep :P
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