IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-12-30
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00:03:21 <andythenorth> you have to substitute it back in
00:03:39 <andythenorth> this is why Horse has 576 separate recolour sprites
00:03:53 <andythenorth> it's the number of variants * number of company colours
00:04:25 <andythenorth> frosch can explain this better if you catch him :)
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10:06:38 <TrueBrain> "AI players will attempt to establish air and ship routes going to this industry (oil rig) " <- is that still a thing? :P
10:17:30 <TrueBrain> right ... having industries on shore is more tricky then I would like :P
10:19:31 <andythenorth> it requires effort
10:19:32 <TrueBrain> its a collaboration of several aspects that happens to result in an "industry on shore" :)
10:19:43 <TrueBrain> can't believe the industry placement algorithm can handle that :P
10:19:50 <andythenorth> it doesn't handle it very well
10:20:25 <andythenorth> it's also incredibly hard for players to build these industries manually
10:20:59 <TrueBrain> always gives me the question: do I want to support this for TrueGRF v1 :)
10:22:10 <TrueBrain> right, so probability next :)
10:26:33 <TrueBrain> "Destruction cost multiplier " lol .. is that a thing?
10:27:15 <andythenorth> I can't remember how it works
10:27:21 <andythenorth> I think it requires magic bulldozer
10:27:48 <TrueBrain> I think it is safe to not implement that for now :P
10:28:16 <andythenorth> I think it's weird nonsense
10:28:24 <andythenorth> sometimes the newgrf spec is so lol it's not funny
10:28:43 <andythenorth> "industries cannot be removed except with a cheat, but we must have control over the cost of the cheat"
10:29:03 <TrueBrain> I love that I can make the judgement of: I will not implement this
10:29:29 <andythenorth> I think you can flip a coin safely for many features :P
10:30:05 <andythenorth> oh industries have built in random sound effect support
10:31:16 <TrueBrain> so I can safely disable that? :P
10:31:47 <andythenorth> utmost safety :P
10:32:05 <andythenorth> you are even safe from forum-based wrath
10:32:24 <TrueBrain> "15 (won't implement)"
10:32:39 <TrueBrain> prop16 .. I guess there is a use for that
10:33:02 <andythenorth> there is but it's not useful imho
10:33:23 <TrueBrain> it is an annoying one, as you can only refer to 128 industries
10:33:38 <andythenorth> I wrote my own implementation of that check
10:33:40 <andythenorth> can't remember why
10:34:02 <TrueBrain> (well, you can only have 128 industries per NewGRF anyway, but that it requires some bit-stuff is annoying)
10:34:18 <TrueBrain> if there is demand for it, I too rather see it as a callback :P
10:34:36 <andythenorth> providing a library of callbacks might be a thing
10:35:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, I expect most callbacks are completely hidden from the user
10:35:08 <TrueBrain> things like "In Town" for placement is nice
10:35:16 <TrueBrain> but it could also just be a predefined callback
10:35:40 <andythenorth> FIRS has a library of location checks, which can be chained
10:35:46 <andythenorth> admittedly some have bugs in :P
10:35:48 <TrueBrain> prop14 .. "minimal amount of cargo distributed", I guess that is useful?
10:35:56 <andythenorth> I never understood what prop14 is for
10:36:20 <andythenorth> where is frosch123 when needed? :)
10:36:21 <TrueBrain> to hav ethings being produced in bulk, I guess
10:37:01 <andythenorth> FIRS seems to set it to 1
10:37:32 <TrueBrain> I just wrote the same andythenorth :P
10:40:51 <TrueBrain> prospecting chance .. hmm
10:41:21 <TrueBrain> for some reason, that is a 32bit value
10:42:37 <andythenorth> that one might be worth including
10:42:51 <TrueBrain> yeah; otherwise it is 0 :P
10:43:07 <andythenorth> it is very important to have 32 bits there
10:43:17 <andythenorth> for fine grained control
10:43:21 <andythenorth> over results between 0 and 1
10:43:21 <TrueBrain> yes, you want to indicate the chance this precise
10:43:37 <andythenorth> maybe someone heard that 32 bit was the new standard?
10:43:39 <TrueBrain> I completely understand that 90% of the specs work with 1/256th
10:43:42 <TrueBrain> but this REALLY had to be ..
10:43:44 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 4294967296
10:44:03 <andythenorth> well it's just bits
10:44:21 <andythenorth> so FF000000, or FFFF0000, or FFFFFF00 or FFFFFFFF are all you need
10:44:29 * andythenorth knows how nfo spec authors seemed to think
10:44:37 <andythenorth> ^^ this would have been seen as very easy and a nice API
10:45:00 <TrueBrain> okay, so either I will not implement industry props, or they are text-related
10:45:06 <TrueBrain> and I still do not know how to do the text-related ones
10:45:10 <TrueBrain> the others I am all going to implement now :D
10:45:39 <TrueBrain> I really really dislike the "cargo" thing for industries
10:45:42 <TrueBrain> I need to figure out something else there
10:45:45 <TrueBrain> this is just terrible UI
10:47:09 <andythenorth> apart from the scrolling it's fine for now
10:47:22 <TrueBrain> for secondary, it is impossible to understand what it actually does
10:48:03 <andythenorth> which is input and which is output?
10:48:12 <TrueBrain> and what the numbers mean
10:49:27 <TrueBrain> hmm .. probability .. guess a slider works there too
10:52:18 * andythenorth thinking about cargos
10:53:00 <andythenorth> the spec supports the fine-grained rules of cargo 10 unit of A = 2 units of B and 4 units of C etc
10:53:19 <andythenorth> and 10 unit of N = 3 units of B and 6 units of Z
10:53:27 <andythenorth> but there's no way for the player to understand that
10:53:32 <andythenorth> and it's complicated
10:58:53 <TrueBrain> so far the JSON contains the value as the NewGRF specs define
10:59:01 <TrueBrain> but it makes so little sense for "prospecting success chance"
10:59:20 <TrueBrain> always this question of: where do you do the conversion :)
11:05:53 <TrueBrain> so when you click Prospect in-game
11:05:58 <TrueBrain> you get 0 feedback if it succeeded
11:06:05 <TrueBrain> and nobody complained about that yet? :P
11:08:16 <andythenorth> not noticeably no
11:12:49 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I kinda want to make the fund cost multiplier the same as cargo prices
11:12:52 <TrueBrain> so show the value in pounds
11:12:56 <TrueBrain> but that is for another day
11:13:14 <TrueBrain> after lunch I first going to fix styling, as this is annoying me :D
11:21:26 <TrueBrain> right .. two things left on my list ... better left/top presentation, and ground-sprite support
11:21:32 <TrueBrain> the latter is kinda important for water-based industries
11:21:36 <TrueBrain> for the rest it is so-so :P
11:26:57 <TrueBrain> I don't like my changelog thing .. really hard to read for normal humans :)
11:28:43 <TrueBrain> I do really like my industry layout preview .. :D
11:30:12 <TrueBrain> hmm, Glass Works industry looks broken
11:31:16 <TrueBrain> ground sprite, I guess :D
11:37:30 <TrueBrain> btw andythenorth , wtf is pollution_and_squalor_factor? :)
11:50:22 <andythenorth> TrueBrain experimental FIRS feature
11:50:39 <TrueBrain> So I can ignore it, w00p
11:50:55 <andythenorth> TL;DR attempt to provide additional currencies beside money
11:51:00 <andythenorth> town happiness, pollution
11:52:31 <andythenorth> FIRS generates a GS also btw :P
11:55:12 <andythenorth> I think that's only in a test branch
11:55:19 <andythenorth> doesn't do anything interesting
12:54:43 <TrueBrain> so why does "my" FIRS always looks blue, and andythenorth 's FIRS doesn't :)
12:54:47 <TrueBrain> guess that is another thing to resolve
12:56:01 <andythenorth> the company colours?
12:56:08 <andythenorth> in game, or in your preview?
12:57:47 <TrueBrain> and I don't know how to call it .. I just see that FIRS isn't always blue
12:57:53 <TrueBrain> where TrueGRF always uses blue :P
12:58:06 <TrueBrain> there are no companies yet, so "company colour" sounds wrong
12:59:21 <_dp_> dos/win palette mismatch can sometimes give some blue colours
12:59:52 <_dp_> I have blue trees because of it
13:06:14 <TrueBrain> another big difference is of course fences ..
13:07:22 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: for the CC, I think I should mark the tiles as "recolour sprite"; at least, that is what you seem to be doing :)
13:07:43 <TrueBrain> RECOLOUR_REMAP to be exact
13:08:00 <andythenorth> I thought the game recoloured industries by default
13:08:08 <TrueBrain> not if you tell it not to :P
13:08:16 <TrueBrain> I (implicitly) set RECOLOUR_NONE
13:08:56 <TrueBrain> either way, time to improve my 5G reception
13:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like people climbing places and holding a phone away from them to find reception
13:44:36 <TrueBrain> I just let someone stick a needle in my arm
13:49:00 <andythenorth> do they leave the needle in?
13:49:29 <TrueBrain> They don't for you?
13:49:40 <TrueBrain> Also the nanomachines they inject help
13:50:04 <TrueBrain> And I like they can find me anywhere on earth now .. helps if I gey lost again
13:55:33 <andythenorth> I hope you have done your research
13:56:39 <TrueBrain> How do you think I know this?
13:57:02 <TrueBrain> People on Facebook told me, and they say they know better than science people
13:57:54 <TrueBrain> (Waiting 15 minutes is boring)
13:58:10 <Xaroth> People on Facebook say you don't have to wait 15 minutes.
14:02:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9774: [Bug]: CMD_BUILD_ROAD_STOP changes station acceptance in estimate mode, this can cause MP desyncs https://git.io/JyS4R
14:11:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #9775: Fix #9774: CmdBuildRoadStop updated station acceptance in estimate mode https://git.io/JyS4y
14:24:34 <_dp_> that weird feeling what you don't seem to remember a thing about Rust but you just write it and it works...
15:03:47 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: indeed, when I set the "recolour sprite" bit, things do get a pretty different colour :)
15:04:56 <supermop_Home> i gave up on recoloring buses
15:05:01 <andythenorth> TrueBrain did you set it to a default value? Or your own crazy scheme?
15:05:15 <supermop_Home> i just baked all the sprites in PS
15:06:05 <TrueBrain> "For industry tiles, if this field is zero, but recolouring is turned on in bits 14 or 15, the colour of the containing industry will automatically be applied. "
15:08:39 <andythenorth> oh it's the prop not the callback
15:09:03 <TrueBrain> don't know if you do any more fancy stuff with it for FIRS
15:09:11 <TrueBrain> but it does what I expected it to do
15:53:24 <supermop_Home> can i make it so iff my Honolulu bus stop grf is loaded, buses will switch to a cpecial Hawaii livery?
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16:01:53 <supermop_Home> also is it better to make a switch that changes a truck's sprite based on climate, or just make two equivalent trucks with different climate availability?
16:02:44 <nielsm> different sprites is probably easier to manage, especially if you can make it static evaluated
16:02:58 <TrueBrain> "better" is such a relative term here :)
16:03:14 <nielsm> and there are definitely ways to test whether a different GRF is loaded during loading of yours
16:05:05 <supermop_Home> and can i test whether the map has a water edge
16:06:16 <supermop_Home> i want to show surfboards on racks for loading stages, but only if: 1. climate is tropical, 2. my Honolulu grf is loaded, and 3. there is an ocean to go surfing on
16:07:24 <supermop_Home> and yes you can surf in the arctic, but it's uncommon to take a surfboard on a bus there
16:17:29 <supermop_Home> for "grf_current_status(grfid[, mask]) "
16:17:45 <supermop_Home> will that return 0 if the grf isn't loaded at all?
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18:14:23 <supermop_Home> so i am putting "switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, switch_pickup_cargo, grf_current_status(44450602) )"
18:16:10 <glx> yes current status should fine at the callback time
18:17:48 <glx> but I should check how it's implemented
18:18:32 <supermop_Home> i can write it like that not DE0602 right?
18:19:08 <supermop_Home> and then mask 11111100 will ignore the version number?
18:20:11 <glx> hmm not sure, I think it expects "DE\6\2"
18:22:11 <supermop_Home> nmlc aid \ was an illegal character
18:30:19 <supermop_Home> same - i get "Parsing ...Illegal character '\' (character code 0x5C) at "moprv80.nml", line 35394, column 72"
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18:34:07 <supermop_Home> will the mask then be 11\11\00?
18:38:27 <glx> I don't understand the mask thing in the doc
18:40:08 <glx> how unless it's to test a grfid range
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18:51:08 <glx> ah yes mask is for partial matching
18:58:48 <supermop_Home> switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, switch_pickup_cargo, grf_current_status("DE\80\00"["11\11\00"]) ) {
18:59:02 <supermop_Home> i did that but now nmlc doesn't like that [
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19:38:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #9775: Fix #9774: CmdBuildRoadStop updated station acceptance in estimate mode https://git.io/JySbF
19:39:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #9774: [Bug]: CMD_BUILD_ROAD_STOP changes station acceptance in estimate mode, this can cause MP desyncs https://git.io/JyS4R
19:39:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #9775: Fix #9774: CmdBuildRoadStop updated station acceptance in estimate mode https://git.io/JyS4y
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20:19:38 <glx> <supermop_Home> i did that but now nmlc doesn't like that [ <-- yes, the '[' in doc means optional so it's grf_xxx_status(grfid) or grf_xxx_status(grfid, mask)
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21:46:59 <supermop_Home> still says \ is an illegal character with the "
21:48:16 <supermop_Home> hmm no i messed something else up
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22:37:16 <nielsm> and that podcast recording is now complete!
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22:54:30 <supermop_Home> oof now no free parameters
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