IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-12-06
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01:39:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #9734: [Error]: The setting name "Screen resolution" is incorrect and misleading https://git.io/JMbE0
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07:02:13 <TrueBrain> I created a label for these pedantic things.. 'low prio' :p
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12:51:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9735: [Bug]: Multiplayer desync due to incorrect OrderBackup handling https://git.io/JMAM2
13:50:03 <peter1138> warning: There are too many unreachable loose objects; run 'git prune' to remove them.
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14:51:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Azusa257 opened issue #9736: [Bug]: Multiplayer window doubles when exiting password entering is cancelled https://git.io/JMxIQ
15:07:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Azusa257 opened issue #9737: [Crash]: crash while investigating issue #9736: looking at weird behaviour on the mutliplayer server list menu. https://git.io/JMxmA
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15:08:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9736: [Bug]: Multiplayer window doubles when exiting password entering is cancelled https://git.io/JMxIQ
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15:10:45 <TrueBrain> I would guess it is a one liner somewhere
15:10:53 <TrueBrain> but Window ... so not going to find out if that is true :)
15:11:44 <glx> I'm trying to determine if there's a bug in newgrf spritelayout specs, or in nmlc, or in openttd
15:14:02 <glx> means at least 1 buildingsprite is needed
15:14:36 <glx> but openttd seem to perfectly accept 0 for num-sprites
15:16:02 <glx> and nmlc always adds the "no building" data corresponding to basic format, even for non basic ones
15:18:57 <glx> so I'd say there's something wrong everywhere :)
15:22:17 <glx> openttd not correctly reading basic format, nmlc not correctly generating extended/advanced
15:22:27 <glx> and the spec being very unclear
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15:24:57 <glx> and it's not related to stations only
15:25:33 <glx> I guess it's very rare to set only ground
15:29:55 <peter1138> Stations don't use action 2 sprite layouts?
15:30:20 <glx> no they use something similar but in a property
15:31:11 <glx> but as I understand line 5229, it seems openttd just droped support for basic format
15:32:12 <peter1138> Not a hack, just designed before act2 layouts.
15:33:40 <glx> and it could not use act2 layouts anyway as it requires spritegroups for cargos
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15:41:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #9737: [Crash]: crash while investigating issue #9736: looking at weird behaviour on the mutliplayer server list menu. https://git.io/JMxmA
15:43:29 <LordAro> that should've died a lot earlier if my_client is nullptr...
15:44:18 <glx> don't forget there are more than one network list windows open at that time
15:45:01 <LordAro> my_client is a global
15:45:12 <LordAro> race condition, presumably
15:52:28 <glx> looks like a double CloseConnection()
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16:07:44 <glx> ok openttd never supported basic sprite layout format it seems
16:12:15 <glx> so the spec for extended format is half wrong, the syntax says optional building, while the detail says at least one
16:13:13 <glx> advanced format says the same, but in theory 0 could work because bit 6 is set
16:14:27 <glx> and openttd seems to assume there's at least 1 building for advanced, without enforcing it
16:15:34 <glx> and nmlc doesn't really check that and generates invalid advanced format if no buildings
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17:36:48 <Rubidium> but... OpenTTD isn't a DOS game anymore
17:37:45 <frosch123> apparently there last episode (not listed on the site?) was about ttd, and now they want to know what changed... no idea
17:38:17 <frosch123> not sure why they want to talk abuot the same game twice
17:39:40 <frosch123> hmm, though i can also interpret the mail as: they took a look at TTD and want to make the next episode about it
17:39:49 <frosch123> maybe that makes more sense :)
17:40:15 <Rubidium> last month's forum(?) was about TTD
17:41:12 <Rubidium> so I think they still need to record a podcast about TTD
17:42:59 <frosch123> so, do you want to join? the host is also dutch, so should be your timezone
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17:46:58 <nielsm> I think it'd be good to have someone who's familiar with the Coop playing style/culture though, and that's not me
17:47:33 <frosch123> going by their forum... i think they are more interested in someone knowing the DOS version
17:47:51 <frosch123> so I could imagine they would be quite exicted about you talking about adlib music and stuff :)
17:47:52 <nielsm> yeah, that's the part where I feel comfortable
17:48:18 <frosch123> do i have your mail address? then i can forward
17:48:35 <nielsm> but the OTTD history between 2004-2017, I won't be good
17:51:01 <Rubidium> I'm not interested in joining; maybe TB for removing DOS support from OpenTTD ;)
18:01:56 <nielsm> removing DOS support was kind of based on my feedback though, since I was the one trying to run the builds
18:08:36 <frosch123> glx: "no building sprites" has to use the basic format. the basic format always has one building sprite, but allows setting it to zero
18:09:31 <glx> I know, but advanced format could allow 0 too, as bit 6 is set
18:09:59 <glx> and openttd only support extended and advanced without checking advanced is not 0
18:10:02 <frosch123> ok, i guess you could extend that
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18:10:38 <bkilm[m]> What advantage would DOS support carry? I think the original game also required a 386 and recommended a 486. With all the modern tools and codes in, I'd think it would be sluggish on anything under i686. But you can already install Linux on such a machine, couldn't you?
18:11:25 <glx> it used to run in dosbox, but I never managed to make it work on real hardware
18:12:19 <glx> my tests were using a P120 and windows98
18:12:48 <nielsm> having OTTD run on DOS is only really for show, IMO
18:13:07 <glx> RAM was not the issue, it was an invalid opcode
18:13:21 <bkilm[m]> Probably i686 code then.
18:13:36 <bkilm[m]> If you have a screenshot of the error, we might be able to find out.
18:15:04 <bkilm[m]> But I'm just curious, how much RAM and HDD space did that machine have?
18:17:51 <nielsm> when I tried running builds a few years ago (around 1.9 I think it was?) it was on a 256 MB Cyrix 300 mhz
18:18:55 <nielsm> and there was something weird going on where the performance was absurdly slow, probably something related to the allegro video driver but it wasn't realistic to debug it then, and removing DJGPP support for compiling for DOS allowed to move to more modern C++ language versions too
18:19:17 <nielsm> and simplify code by making network support mandatory
18:22:18 <glx> but the way stations layout are done with prop 1A it doesn't work
18:28:15 <frosch123> what is your goal with that? do you want 0 buildings or 1? if you want 0, then the flags should be 0 as well
18:29:48 <glx> in the test it's 0 building, but it's also using LOAD_TEMP() for groundsprite
18:30:38 <frosch123> oh, i misattributed the flags :)
18:31:11 <frosch123> looks like stations allow 0x40 to read zero building sprites
18:31:27 <glx> test is an object, but it also allows it
18:32:30 <glx> it's example_object from nml with commented out childsprites
18:32:32 <frosch123> oh wait, objects also allow 0x40
18:32:41 <frosch123> i guess it just does not care about extra bytes at end of action?
18:33:12 <frosch123> action0 cares about extra bytes
18:33:28 <frosch123> since the next layout/property directly follows
18:33:42 <glx> not really, it reads wrong data and ignore the rest
18:34:52 <glx> so it reads first groundsprite correctly, then second groundsprite is 000000
18:35:05 <frosch123> ottd seems to generally not care about extra bytes in actions
18:35:12 <frosch123> so far, i see no bug in ottd, just nml is wrong
18:35:52 <glx> nml should refuse 0 buildings for advanced, or the spec should allow it
18:36:22 <glx> in both cases nml is wrong for now
18:36:33 <frosch123> so are you happy if we write in the spec that 0x40 is allowed? because i think it already works in ottd
18:36:46 <frosch123> for both stations and objects
18:37:00 <glx> yes it works so updating spec to allow it makes sense
18:38:09 <glx> so 0x01 to 0x3F becomes 0x00 to 0x3F
18:39:30 <glx> I think it also works for industry tiles and houses of course, it's the same code
18:41:12 <glx> now I just need to fix nml, but that should be easy
18:41:42 <frosch123> i have not read that much nfo in years... first tb, now you :)
18:48:36 <nielsm> frosch123: thanks, I replied to the request now
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19:21:41 <andythenorth> christmas livestream then?
19:26:23 <peter1138> Livestream bike ride
19:27:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #9732: Feature: Added hotkeys to tooltips and dropdown menu's https://git.io/JMxhK
19:29:50 <andythenorth> livestream bike ride twitch coding
19:31:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #9738: Fix #9735: Fix OrderBackup::Reset in non-GUI case https://git.io/JMxjE
19:34:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #9732: Feature: Added hotkeys to tooltips and dropdown menu's https://git.io/JMxjx
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22:20:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kiptoke updated pull request #9726: Fix: Prevents crash when no industries are present https://git.io/JMKrq
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22:34:35 <dP> btw, is sprite layout with num_sprites > 0x7F documented anywhere?
22:34:50 <dP> there seems to be like a whole format or two missing in the specs
22:35:45 <glx> I don't think the spec allows num_sprites > 0x7F
22:37:03 <glx> 0x00 basic, 0x01-0x3F extended, 0x40-0x7F advanced
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22:37:11 <dP> well, openttd certainly does allow it
22:38:16 <glx> ha that's different, it's not a spritelayout, but a varact2
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22:42:00 <dP> lol, what the heck is varact and how is it different from regular action?
22:43:14 <glx> spritelayout, spritegroup, varact2, random varact2,... they are all action 2 and have the same format up to type/num-sprite
22:44:17 <glx> spritelayout and spritegroup are feature specific so only one kind is possible per feature
22:44:49 <glx> and they share type/num-sprite < 0x80
22:46:44 <dP> and it doesn't really mention that stuff
22:47:04 <dP> by the looks of it it's actually the page for basic action 2 only
22:47:24 <glx> yes basic action 2 is spritegroup
22:49:34 <glx> and it's replaced by spritelayout for houses, industry tiles, airport tiles and objects
22:50:13 <glx> and production callback for industries
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22:53:32 <glx> newgrf specs are often not easy to follow
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