IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-11-25
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02:52:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YorVeX commented on pull request #9475: Remove: COMPANY_INFO packets and related code https://git.io/JMT5a
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06:21:44 <TrueBrain> Dropping local server detection because one user is confused, nice :D
06:21:56 <TrueBrain> Hihi, childish of me :p
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07:37:38 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, they asked nicely
07:37:53 <LordAro> take the opportunity to improve documentation ;)
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10:22:58 <peter1138> One of my VS Code plugins is telling me it's "black friday" :(
10:49:35 <LordAro> peter1138: sounds like it's asking to be uninstalled
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12:20:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9715: [Bug]: Houses try to produce and receive Mail, even when no Mail cargo type exists in GRF https://git.io/J1jHy
12:22:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #9714: [Bug]: Town GUI shows amount of Mail produced and transported, even when no Mail cargo type exists in GRF https://git.io/J1j9J
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16:45:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #9030: Global story book opens on top of company story book https://git.io/JOqgs
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18:59:55 <Andres_> I have recently gotten into the game and just stumbled upon the JGR patchpack, and I am a bit confused as to how one goes about it
19:00:41 <Andres_> From looking around I've figured there's no real 'install' to be done? It's just a separate instance of the game altogether?
19:01:44 <nielsm> yeah it's just the game files and that's it
19:01:58 <Andres_> I guess the real question would be if there is a way to make that the 'default' game
19:02:07 <nielsm> I'm not sure how JGR's handles the config files, if it will share with the main version if you run both
19:02:12 <Andres_> Err, replace Steam files or whatever, you know what I mean?
19:02:28 <nielsm> nah don't try that, steam will overwrite it
19:03:01 <Andres_> And is there a way to export my NewGRF's over easily? O should I just look for them again?
19:03:18 <nielsm> rather, in steam to to the Games menu at the very top, then there's an option to "Add a non-Steam game to library"
19:03:43 <Andres_> Yeah I will do that instead, but I think it's better off with Steam gone to be honest
19:03:52 <nielsm> I'm quite sure JGR's will use the same user data folder, i.e. you won't even need to copy or move anything for it to find all your existing content downloads etc
19:04:27 <Andres_> Oh interesting! So it should be as simple as downloading the files and dropping them on my drive somewhere
19:04:41 <Andres_> Thank you very much for your guidance nielsm
19:06:57 <nielsm> if you do want to keep it separate, you can make an install that runs as "portable"
19:07:25 <nielsm> you do that by putting an openttd.cfg file in the same folder as openttd.exe
19:07:49 <nielsm> then it'll use that config file instead, and put all user data in subfolders of the one with the exe file
19:07:55 <nielsm> (assuming Windows here)
19:09:34 <Andres_> However I think keeping it all together will be best, as I don't plan on switching versions. Only reason I found JGR's is because I wanted to modify some annoyances out of the game in the first place, and it seems they are all addressed and some
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19:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9715: [Bug]: Houses try to produce and receive Mail, even when no Mail cargo type exists in GRF https://git.io/J1jHy
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20:19:45 <peter1138> Am I going to have to get my VS Code out again?
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20:27:11 <TrueBrain> you rageclosed it after seeing the black friday ad?
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20:37:15 <andythenorth> anybody ever bought backups-as-a-service?
20:38:21 <andythenorth> does £400k / annum for backing up 200 VMs sound reasonable?
20:38:24 <LordAro> something like backblaze? or do you mean something else?
20:38:27 <andythenorth> VMs are 100GB each
20:38:30 <andythenorth> Veeam and friends
20:39:05 <nielsm> I had one of the cloud backup systems on subscription at a time, for personal use, and then that service ended their personal use plans and started offering only business plans, obviously at business prices
20:40:02 <andythenorth> it's £2000 / annum per VM
20:40:33 <LordAro> that seems like a lot
20:40:34 <andythenorth> the VMs cost around £200 - £800 / annum from the IaaS vendors
20:40:42 <andythenorth> it does seem a lot
20:40:49 <andythenorth> I guess that's how people get rich
20:41:03 <nielsm> I have no idea if that's costly or not, but I guess it also depends on frequency of changes in the data (how many GB of changed blocks each month) and how much retention you get
20:41:05 <LordAro> we just send our zfs datasets to an offsite server
20:41:39 <LordAro> admittedly we don't have all that much, no more than 10s of GB per day
20:41:45 <nielsm> I suppose you can do a cost-benefit with what would the business cost be of losing that particular VM
20:41:47 <andythenorth> our backup requirements are moderately intense, but spending 25% of total business turnover on backups seems quite .... odd
20:43:12 <nielsm> it seems like it'd be a better plan to move all data of value out of the VMs and into some other persistent storage, which can have appropriate redundancy etc
20:43:34 <nielsm> managing backup of dedicated storage should also be easier than of black-box VMs
20:45:54 <andythenorth> it would be a better plan, but facts on the ground mitigate against doing it
20:46:28 <andythenorth> or at least, there is a sequence
20:48:30 <andythenorth> do you think it will be more or less than £460k? :)
20:50:07 <andythenorth> I think that is going to cut my personal AWS bill substantially though
20:50:15 <andythenorth> it will fall from as much as $6 to $0
20:50:18 <TrueBrain> seems it should cut our bill with at least 30 dollar a month
20:54:42 <andythenorth> think of the savings!
20:55:01 <andythenorth> can we blow the budget on treats then?
20:56:33 <peter1138> 200 x 100GB VMs seems lot.
20:57:28 <andythenorth> there are other ways, but we have compliance paperwork for this one
20:59:45 <peter1138> Also I need to figure out the dev-ops side.
21:00:17 <peter1138> All my stuff is in the "we set up machines, they just happen to be virtual" which is a bit old school.
21:01:35 <SpComb> 20TB dataset? do they assume 100% churn on daily backups with 1y retention or what
21:02:05 <andythenorth> err you just precisely described the worst case use case yes
21:02:18 <andythenorth> ideally the churn is single digit
21:02:22 <andythenorth> but there are other days
21:08:53 <SpComb> 20TB/day probably isn't free
21:09:24 <SpComb> but dumb to pay by worst-case if there are other options available
21:10:15 <andythenorth> awaiting quotes from other vendors
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22:24:41 <Andres_> Hello. Does anyone here use Southern Pacific Rail NewGRF?
22:32:35 <FLHerne> Andres_: Unlikely, but what's the question?
22:33:15 <FLHerne> we can always download it quickly
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22:38:02 <Andres_> Well I am playing a game starting at 1850 and these trains ask for a caboose which doesn't appear well until 1905
22:38:52 <Andres_> So I am wondering if I bleeped them out somehow or if it's intended
22:39:12 <Andres_> Because that just means I can't run trains until 1905 ya know
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22:45:24 <FLHerne> Yeah, I'm not seeing such a thing either, looks like a set design bug...
22:46:47 <FLHerne> you're not the first person to discover that
22:47:26 <FLHerne> There's a grf somewhere containing an very short, totally invisible locomotive that you can use to workaround this sort of thing
22:48:13 <FLHerne> Hm, not sure if it would work in this case, depends how Southern Pacific set checks for stuff
22:48:25 <FLHerne> I remember it allows skipping UKRS2's brake vans
22:53:23 <Andres_> I guess I will look for a different train set to use for this time period
22:53:51 <Andres_> Thank you for your time FLHerne much appreciated
22:54:20 <FLHerne> 'North American Renewal Set' is the time-proven kitchen-sink train set for NA stuff
22:54:52 <FLHerne> I'm sure there are others
22:55:59 <Andres_> There's like 3 versions of it, and the earlier is the largest?
22:59:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123 / orudge: 1password fixed for another 2 years now :)
22:59:32 <FLHerne> 2.5 was a complete rewrite compared to 2.0, with better balancing but with some of the [cute/annoying] quirks removed
23:01:23 <FLHerne> the older versions only make sense if you were particularly fond of certain crazy features like being able to change the gearing ratio of locomotives
23:02:12 <FLHerne> I don't know why both 2.51 and 2.52 are available, that's probably an oversight
23:05:53 <Andres_> Change the gearing ratio huh
23:06:03 <Andres_> That's a bit overkill for me I'll have to admit
23:08:40 <FLHerne> Yeah, also the implementation conflicted with industry sets in very confusing ways
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23:52:59 <Andres_> Newly added NewGRF should affect savegames yes?
23:54:28 <Andres_> Well that explains a lot
23:54:30 <glx> it's possibly to change newgrf in running games, but it's not recommended (things can break)
23:54:58 <Andres_> But if I add more NewGRF files from online and want to load an existing save with something new?
23:55:17 <Andres_> I shouldn't expect that behavior as normal I take
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