IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-11-12
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06:14:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] same-f commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
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06:49:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
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13:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> are we having a "we need more settings" and "we need fewer settings" discussion again?
13:08:29 <Timberwolf> I think somewhere 2 or 3 whys down we're at the old favourite of, "people seem weirdly invested into types of signals for some reason"
13:09:04 <LordAro> s/people/the russians/
13:20:50 <Xaroth> I think it's mostly a thing about not understanding why the change was made
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13:36:30 <dP> for what I can tell it's a wild mix of coop elitism, disagreement with the development decisions and inability to affect them and lots of misunderstanding
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15:20:21 <TrueBrain> I joined in down voting! :D and this is why you cannot have constructive conversations on the Internet .. lol
15:21:21 <TrueBrain> "Here is a valid argument" - "no."
15:29:33 <dP> To be fair, it's very unclear how the decisions on what setting to remove and what to leave are made.
15:30:00 <dP> Like, you're bringing up that argument in a discusion of a setting that has some demand but nearly zero complexity and doesn't even have to be visible.
15:30:39 <dP> There are so many settings that could be better candidates for removal
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16:02:47 <TrueBrain> That would be a counter argument.. that is not what happened in that thread ;)
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16:19:55 <dP> well, it takes a certain uderstanding of openttd development to not read that answer as "we want to remove all settings"
16:20:39 <dP> not that I want to defend these assholes but I can somewhat relate as I kinda felt the same when I just started patching openttd
16:20:47 <dP> and maybe even still do sometimes
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18:00:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #9642: Feature: Orientation of rail, road and ship depots can be changed https://git.io/JitGY
18:03:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #9642: Feature: Orientation of rail, road and ship depots can be changed https://git.io/JXNek
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18:46:19 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:53:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #9642: Feature: Orientation of rail and road depots can be changed https://git.io/JXNtv
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19:17:50 <dP> TrueBrain, is that server listing?
19:17:58 <dP> doesn't quite match the number of servers...
19:18:29 <TrueBrain> if only one could read headers .... :P
19:18:59 <Xaroth> it's the amount of hippos spotted by each version of OpenTTD.
19:19:37 <dP> TrueBrain, I did read the header, it still doesn't add up :p
19:20:23 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko opened issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:21:30 <TrueBrain> well that makes for an interesting crash .. neither IPv4 nor IPv6 ..
19:22:02 <TrueBrain> sadly no crash dump ..
19:22:50 <dP> 1.12 is an interesting way to write 12.1 xD
19:25:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:27:08 <TrueBrain> ban-list related by the looks
19:27:53 <frosch123> heh, just wanted to write that :p
19:28:11 <TrueBrain> it seems that the IP given by TURN cannot be resolved
19:28:13 <TrueBrain> which is .. unexpected?
19:28:23 <TrueBrain> IPv4 only stack, and someone connecting via IPv6?
19:28:31 <TrueBrain> I can imagine that Resolve() fails in that case
19:29:17 <TrueBrain> would explain why this hasn't been seen before, as a IPv4-only stack is .. rare
19:30:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:32:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:33:03 <TrueBrain> would be highly unusual, and really hard to properly fix :P
19:33:19 <TrueBrain> we can do a poor-mans solution to detect IPv4 from IPv6, I guess :)
19:35:09 <frosch123> i don't understand this :) why does the client try to resolve an address received via turn? wouldn't successful resolve imply that turn is not needed?
19:35:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:36:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:36:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: to make sure ban-lists work, TURN-servers tell the game-server the IP of the client
19:36:37 <TrueBrain> how our "Address" class works, is that anything that is done via a string, is getting resolved first
19:36:45 <TrueBrain> as we do not know the family yet, Resolve() figures this one out
19:37:02 <TrueBrain> but .. doing a Resolve() on an IPv6 if your interface doesn't support it, doesn't go very well
19:37:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:37:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko closed issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:37:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:37:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain reopened issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:37:42 <TrueBrain> silly user :P Closing bugs without fixes :P
19:37:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MarkoTsovko commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: Random crash one of four servers , 1.12+. https://git.io/JXNOB
19:38:30 <TrueBrain> so tempted to reply: no worries :P
19:40:23 <frosch123> yes, i also followed the backtrace :)
19:40:32 <TrueBrain> owh, I wasn't even looking at the backtrace anymore
19:40:44 <TrueBrain> as that happens a bit later in time ;)
19:40:52 <frosch123> NetworkAddress::IsInNetmask should probably handle the "still not resolved" case
19:40:53 <TrueBrain> and sorry I wanted to be helpful :'( :'( :P
19:41:09 <TrueBrain> that would mean you cannot ban an IPv6 when your server is IPv4-only
19:42:06 <TrueBrain> as TURN information is trusted, possibly better to make the TURN "NetworkAddress" resolved with the correct family via a simply "is : in IP" detection
19:43:39 <frosch123> if you want to ban ipv6, you also need to be able to read the banlist from openttd.cfg
19:45:09 <TrueBrain> so allowing IPv6 connections via TURN on an IPv4-only server is just bad :P
19:45:26 <frosch123> you could still allow banning them with the resolved ip
19:45:28 <TrueBrain> who has an IPv4-only server this day and age .. ugh :P
19:45:48 <frosch123> but that means that ValidateClient becomes a regex thingie, instead of a resolve thingie
19:46:40 <frosch123> resolve is only needed, if openttd.cfg contains stuff needing dns
19:47:36 <TrueBrain> Resolve() currently takes the easy way out, and lets the OS deal with all of this
19:47:50 <TrueBrain> the solution indeed seems to be that we drag some parts of it in our own code .. meh :P
19:49:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9691: [Crash]: IPv4-only server with IPv6 client via TURN crashes the server https://git.io/JXNOB
19:49:17 <TrueBrain> let's at least document what we found out
19:49:26 <TrueBrain> for if someone finds inspiration :D
19:51:57 <frosch123> when keeping the pass-stuff-to-os approach, there are two options: reject all connections which cannot be resolved (ipv6 can't join), or accep all connections which cannot be resolved (ipv6 can't be banned)
19:52:31 <TrueBrain> the idea of TURN is explicitly to allow the first (server IPv4 only, client IPv6 only), so that would be a regression in my book
19:52:39 <TrueBrain> the second sounds like a bug-report waiting to happen
19:52:50 <TrueBrain> ergo, we cannot keep the pass-stuff-to-os approach :P
19:53:23 <TrueBrain> in fairness, also if you have a broken DNS, it means things start to act really weird on client-joins :)
19:53:28 <TrueBrain> which is a bit weird
19:55:38 <frosch123> how about adding a setting "allow/block unresolveable ips"? we can ask rau or make a poll on reddit
19:56:09 <TrueBrain> but in all honesty, that is not a bad 3rd option in your list
19:57:20 <frosch123> well, except it's misleading. there is no real resolve, only a parse (i think)
19:57:48 <TrueBrain> no clue how an OS deals with that
19:59:49 <peter1138> Why does the IP need to be resolved?
20:00:52 <peter1138> I would expect comparing IPv4 or IPv6 addresses against a blocklist to not really involve anything from the OS.
20:01:57 <TrueBrain> but basically to not care whether something is a hostname or IP, and not have to manually detect IPv4s from IPv6s
20:02:01 <TrueBrain> the OS is much better in this
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21:59:41 <andythenorth> was it bed time?
22:01:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: we are on standard time meanwhile, left summertime
22:02:55 <frosch123> i hope "never" wins :)
22:03:42 <andythenorth> internet continues to internet
22:03:55 <andythenorth> why didn't we call them 'legacy signals' :P
22:04:02 <andythenorth> oh because andythenorth is not to be trusted
22:04:15 <frosch123> call them "rau signals"
22:04:40 * andythenorth wonders why the lolz is just missing in some people
22:05:14 <andythenorth> I mean...I was complaining on the internet earlier when Deliveroo took 1 hour longer than indicated, and then my kids meals were missing
22:05:19 <andythenorth> but this is just a train game
22:05:21 <frosch123> why? it's something like the 6th time rau started that topic on reddit/gh? everytime increases the lolz
22:18:49 <frosch123> hmm, can't you post images in replies on reddit?
22:19:06 * andythenorth can't...no account :P
22:23:17 <peter1138> "Are we the baddies?"
22:24:38 <frosch123> for having a reddit account?
22:24:56 <frosch123> i also have a twitter account, i heard that is the worst platform
22:27:43 <andythenorth> did you hear that on twitter :P
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