IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-04-23
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00:01:15 <TrueBrain> the window still sucks, but every day a little bit less :P
00:01:21 <TrueBrain> till we are sick and tired of looking at it :D
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00:04:15 <TrueBrain> Especially without a style guide :D
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05:02:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #9011: Feature: make NewGRF active list react on key presses https://git.io/JOkJH
05:04:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #9011: Feature: make NewGRF active list react on key presses https://git.io/JO1Ca
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07:17:19 <Rubidium> It probably requires an ABI change to fix that, so maybe with C++23? ;)
07:59:33 <TrueBrain> That GitHub now requires a maintainer to approve GHA of first time contributor is nice
08:00:12 <LordAro> ah, that's what it is?
08:00:49 <LordAro> i think we can probably (re)add RB as a member though :p
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08:20:49 <TrueBrain> You know he is both not a first time contributor but also already merged his first PRs right? :D
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08:21:58 <andythenorth> who is this Rubidium dude anyway?
08:22:08 <andythenorth> some kind of old TTDP developer?
08:23:07 <TrueBrain> sounds like an insult :P
08:24:46 <TrueBrain> "Cannot give a client a duplicate name" <- that (already existing) error .. such a weird way of saying that :P
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08:32:27 <TrueBrain> buggy software, that DorpsGek :P
08:43:03 <peter1138> Yeah, no padding between SPR_COMPANY_ICON looks nasty.
08:46:10 <TrueBrain> owh, right, I was tricked into creating a Company dropdown for the Network GUI
08:46:52 <TrueBrain> guess I should change it into a proper GUI too
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08:54:59 <TrueBrain> all this old ugly custom code :D
08:55:39 <TrueBrain> pretty sure it was me who did this GUI :P
08:55:43 <TrueBrain> but I am happy you take the blame :D
08:59:30 <peter1138> minor diff with both at 2x
09:01:58 <TrueBrain> you are making so many people happy with this :D
09:05:07 <Timberwolf> Hang on, I recognise that game...
09:05:19 <TrueBrain> wait, you play it too?
09:05:33 <Timberwolf> That specific sign list, to be exact :)
09:05:58 <TrueBrain> yeah, he really likes using that game :P Can't blame him
09:06:00 <TrueBrain> it was the best game we ever did
09:06:16 <peter1138> Well, it's not like I play the game often :)
09:07:33 <TrueBrain> I have some rants on that department if you are interested? :P
09:07:48 <peter1138> What, playing the game?
09:07:57 <TrueBrain> and lack there of :P
09:08:12 <peter1138> I mostly play and then... "ooh, that needs fixing"
09:08:30 <Timberwolf> That's a familiar feeling in grf-land, too :)
09:09:02 <peter1138> And we are the "someone(tm)" that other people mean when they "can't code"
09:09:18 <peter1138> Did you know being able to go is a genetic trait? Impossible to learn...
09:09:53 <TrueBrain> and sadly, when I play the game, I see a huge backlog of stuff that require attention :P
09:09:58 <TrueBrain> hard to pick what to work on, honestly
09:11:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9083: inflation setting incorrectly affects starting loan and vehicle costs https://git.io/JOXrh
09:11:17 <peter1138> Maybe you have to be a bit neuro-atypical to actually enjoy writing code...
09:11:39 <TrueBrain> you also have to be able to visualise
09:11:51 <TrueBrain> seeing beyond the letters
09:12:16 <peter1138> If neuro-typical is sitting down to watch soaps and baking and other contents on the telly, I'm happy not to be.
09:12:38 <TrueBrain> I can do both! Is that okay? :P
09:13:39 <Timberwolf> Our company quiz last week had the question, "what one skill would you like to have?". "Coding" was the only thing to have more than one person respond with it.
09:13:57 <peter1138> Yeah, I had a colleague who was a "coder" but actually he just pieced together bits of code copy & pasted from other places.
09:14:13 <TrueBrain> you can really stackoverflow your way through it
09:14:18 <peter1138> Managed to make things work, but didn't really have an over-all insight into how it all worked.
09:14:23 <TrueBrain> well, this GUI, is also just copy/pasting the fuck out of it, honestly :D
09:14:27 <Timberwolf> Having two of the skills that came up (the other being "remembering almost everything") I was thinking a bit, "no you don't, they'll only bring you misery"
09:15:09 <peter1138> I only remember the useless details.
09:15:28 <peter1138> Like that hardcoded GRF override mapping :)
09:15:30 <Timberwolf> Exactly. Memory would be fantastic if it was prioritised.
09:16:43 <peter1138> Hmm, now what was I going to fix? I fixed the sign list, but that was not actually my intended task today.
09:17:47 <Timberwolf> In reality, "I'm sure I know how to do this, let's raid the stores... OK, location, layout and equipment details of the studio in which the Rolling Stones first recorded, size differences between the two generations of Volvo S40, construction of self-healing fuel tanks in the wings of piston-engined bombers, ..."
09:19:10 <Timberwolf> Actually, yesterday reminded me of a frustrating "good memory" situation - conversation in which you remember having exactly the same script a few weeks earlier, and the other person has no recollection of it...
09:22:15 <Rubidium> I've got the same issue... knowing what useless detail was on the opposite page to the answer I needed for the test, but not knowing the answer anymore... so useful ;(
09:23:25 <TrueBrain> when you kick someone, or delete a company, should we ask for confirmation first?
09:23:30 <TrueBrain> to avoid accidental clicks? :P
09:24:23 <TrueBrain> can't believe that isn't already the case :D
09:25:52 <TrueBrain> the main issue I have with memory as I am getting older: I used to be able to think of 5 things I needed to do, and do them 1 by 1 .. now after the second I am like: what were the other 3? :P
09:26:16 <peter1138> There is an alternative but you won't like it.
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09:28:27 <peter1138> Make a to-do list. Then you end up with a massive list you never get through ...
09:28:43 <TrueBrain> I learnt a lot of techniques over the years to prevent that :D
09:29:45 <TrueBrain> ha, cool, I can now kick a player from the menu
09:29:53 <TrueBrain> seems like a proper response
09:30:00 <peter1138> My workflow at work is mostly start work on task, get interrupted by something, determine priority, put it on list, go back to original task... get interrupted, get overridden on the priority, do other task. etc etc.
09:30:19 <peter1138> OpenTTD is a little bit more adhoc :D
09:30:54 <peter1138> This workflow approval could get annoying.
09:31:09 <TrueBrain> oh-oh .... I cannot reproduce the crash .... I am in troubbbbllleeeee
09:31:43 <peter1138> Is it new or has it always been there, just I've not seen it before?
09:32:29 <TrueBrain> first time contributor
09:32:34 <TrueBrain> the very first time someone makes a PR
09:32:39 <TrueBrain> we need to approve the GHA run
09:32:43 <TrueBrain> to avoid coin miners
09:33:00 <peter1138> So it's always been that way. Ah ok.
09:33:14 <TrueBrain> a new counter measure of GitHub
09:33:25 <TrueBrain> making all maintainers do a tiny bit of the filtering
09:33:33 <TrueBrain> so they don't have to put a massive team on it, I guess
09:33:55 <peter1138> Yeah, sorry, that was my question, was this new or had I just never noticed before :)
09:34:31 <TrueBrain> sorry, my client shows your name in blue, so sometimes it is hard to see if you talk while I am typing :D
09:35:03 <TrueBrain> (my name is also blue .. that might be important to understand why yours being blue is an issue :P)
09:35:04 <peter1138> Eh, I was thinking in terms of I didn't make my question clear originally :D
09:35:18 <TrueBrain> <peter1138> Is it new or has it always been there, just I've not seen it before?
09:35:20 <TrueBrain> pretty clear to me :D
09:35:52 <TrueBrain> okay .. so the server crashed once while I did not have it running under gdb
09:35:56 <TrueBrain> and it now refuses to crash again
09:36:00 <TrueBrain> even valgrind doesn't report anything
09:36:43 <peter1138> The best sort of bugs.
09:36:49 <peter1138> Ah industry chain window.
09:37:05 <TrueBrain> _ZN30ServerNetworkGameSocketHandler9SendErrorE16NetworkErrorCodePKc+0x9a
09:37:13 <TrueBrain> so that explains, it is unrelated to my code :D
09:37:14 <peter1138> You don't really notice the legend blob doesn't scale because it's larger tahn all the rest anyway.
09:38:14 <peter1138> I think the line widths are pretty odd on that window.
09:39:06 <peter1138> Also industry chain for the Bank is odd anyway.
09:46:17 <TrueBrain> closing down a company doesn't rebuild network list, nice
09:54:26 <TrueBrain> and hmm .. I wonder how to make a C++ lambda .. this will be interesting :D
09:56:20 <LordAro> [capturevars](parameters){code;}
09:57:08 <TrueBrain> yeah, I understand their syntax :P
09:57:20 <TrueBrain> doesn't mean I know how to use them :D :D
09:57:34 <LordAro> same way you use any other function :p
09:57:43 <TrueBrain> yet it isn't working :D
09:57:44 <LordAro> you could write the whole code using lambdas if you so wished
09:57:59 <LordAro> just a load of top level `auto FunctionName = [](...){...}
09:58:05 <TrueBrain> something about it not being compatible .. hmm
09:58:14 <peter1138> There is one I wrote somewhere...
09:58:24 <TrueBrain> cannot convert ‘NetworkClientListWindow::OnDropdownSelect(int, int)::<lambda(Window*, bool)>’ to ‘void (*)(Window*, bool)’
09:58:34 <peter1138> auto draw_livery = ...
09:58:43 <LordAro> return value is wrong, i think
09:59:21 <TrueBrain> how do you set it to void? :P
09:59:35 <TrueBrain> is it okay to capture "this"?
10:02:12 <TrueBrain> hmm .. do lambda have scopes?
10:10:04 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you can only ever use auto with lambdas
10:10:15 <LordAro> they don't have a "writable" type
10:10:29 <TrueBrain> I do not follow, sorry
10:11:42 <LordAro> not a capturing lambda
10:11:59 <TrueBrain> ah .... so there is the subtle difference
10:12:03 <LordAro> it'll work if you use a template parameter
10:12:15 <TrueBrain> I was looking at the specs and like: they have a similar example
10:12:24 <TrueBrain> ugh ... such details in specs are annoying :P
10:12:28 <TrueBrain> especially as the error is very unclear :D
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10:13:21 <TrueBrain> I just wanted to prevent making 4 functions with a single line of code in it
10:13:29 <TrueBrain> this is for the ShowQuery thing of: do you really want to do ....
10:14:26 <TrueBrain> so I am not allowed to capture .. hmm .. guess it makes sense, as in, scoping becomes a bit iffy
10:16:45 <TrueBrain> hmm ... that requires some changes in the whole of OpenTTD .. do I dare :P
10:18:36 <TrueBrain> instead of an extra function to handle the callback
10:19:50 <LordAro> static inline functions are cheap
10:20:01 <TrueBrain> I am not worried about runtime :)
10:20:08 <TrueBrain> more about locality of code
10:24:07 <TrueBrain> meh, even with an extra function, I have the issue of the variable ..
10:24:21 <TrueBrain> callbacks without "userdata" are always a bit iffy
10:24:43 <TrueBrain> dd_client_id comes from this->dd_client_id, but that value can change for various of reasons why the ask-yes-no window is open
10:25:31 <Rubidium> the you probably pass the wrong user data. Maybe pass this in that case?
10:26:46 <TrueBrain> not sure you understood what I mean
10:26:51 <TrueBrain> this callback has no userdata
10:27:04 <TrueBrain> so that means that between the ask-yes-no window showing up
10:27:07 <TrueBrain> and the user pressing yes
10:27:12 <TrueBrain> this->dd_client_id can be changed
10:27:24 <TrueBrain> so the callback, if it would be to read this variable, could have the wrong value
10:27:37 <TrueBrain> so I need to store, yet again, the value somewhere for save-keeping
10:27:51 <TrueBrain> that is why a lambda with capturing would help, if it passes it by value
10:28:26 <Rubidium> ah, okay that makes more sense. I though you were talking about the lambda code
10:28:39 <TrueBrain> no .. I am balancing if I should add support for the lambda code or not
10:28:42 <TrueBrain> if we like that syntax
10:28:48 <TrueBrain> but so far the feedback is a shrug :P
10:29:50 <TrueBrain> ugh, callback is sent into a ctor too
10:29:59 <Rubidium> it would, if used with the ShowQueryString window, make the "show UI if user messed up the client name" a lot easier
10:30:54 <TrueBrain> not sure I follow .. ShowQueryString has no callback function?
10:31:35 <Rubidium> it does... somewhat... by calling Window::OnQueryStringSomethingSomewhat on the passed window
10:31:53 <TrueBrain> how would a lambda solve your case, just so I understand it a bit better?
10:33:11 <Rubidium> if instead of the window a lambda were to be passed (with overload for window that creates the lamdba to the OnQuery.... function), then I can just let any random code be called via that lambda
10:33:30 <TrueBrain> requires a bit more work
10:33:37 <TrueBrain> we have ShowQuery, which is just a standalone window
10:33:48 <TrueBrain> and ShowQueryString, which uses another window
10:33:58 <Rubidium> and since there is no way to pass other information, encapsulating that information in a lambda would be nice
10:34:04 <TrueBrain> the first uses a callback, the second uses w->OnBlaBla :D
10:35:58 <peter1138> Let's see if I broke this :D
10:37:11 <TrueBrain> ugh: is used but never defined
10:38:33 <TrueBrain> I remember why I don't like templates :P
10:38:51 <TrueBrain> guess that means this should all go in the header file :D
10:38:55 <TrueBrain> that is not helpful
10:41:15 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am not going to do this :D Really not a C++ programmer, really do not understand most of this :P
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10:42:03 <TrueBrain> owh, but I also cannot use a class-method as callback
10:42:08 <TrueBrain> so I need to add global variables
10:42:20 <TrueBrain> "lets add a yes/no dialog", they said
10:42:25 <TrueBrain> I get why it wasn't done yet :P
10:49:09 <Rubidium> ## Future work is probably going to be a nice one for the PR template, so you can park all such ideas there and place it out of scope for that PR
10:55:42 <TrueBrain> I like that idea Rubidium
11:00:24 <TrueBrain> shit, I forgot lunch again
11:00:50 <TrueBrain> yeah ... different TZ :P
11:00:53 <peter1138> Urgh, okay, this is a bit narrow at 1x zoom.
11:01:26 <Rubidium> it's only 11:01, right?
11:02:17 <peter1138> By default these lines are FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL thick. That gets a bit much at 4x :p
11:06:53 <TrueBrain> I want rows of a matrix to highlight when mouse hover over them
11:06:57 <TrueBrain> is that possible? :P
11:07:06 <TrueBrain> as with a long list of clients it can be hard to click the right button
11:17:11 <peter1138> Oof, maybe I should keep it scaling by fontsize.
11:17:25 <peter1138> (Which is sort of weird but works)
11:19:27 <peter1138> Also I should test this with some form of FIRS.
11:25:25 <peter1138> TrueBrain, I prefer the last one.
11:25:56 <peter1138> Stick-figure is... a nice stick figure but doesn't fit
11:26:56 <Rubidium> the last one seems the clearest
11:27:24 <TrueBrain> lol, I really dislike it :P Can't put my finger on it .. too thin on one hand,but also just like a weird C on the other
11:27:28 <TrueBrain> I wonder if we can give it more character
11:32:19 <TrueBrain> not sure it is any better :D
11:33:37 <peter1138> Ah, FIRS Steeltown mode.
11:46:17 <TrueBrain> fixed my issues with that one
11:46:28 <TrueBrain> it is now more like the chat cloud
11:55:59 <peter1138> Ooh, scrollbar capacity not updating on scale change. Hmm.
11:56:36 <peter1138> I guess scale change should just call OnResize() as well.
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12:13:27 <peter1138> Hmm, not perfect but better.
12:16:01 <glx> hmm seems WC_CLIENT_LIST_POPUP is now unused in #9067 (except for now useless invalidations as no windows use the class)
12:16:43 <TrueBrain> I forgot to remove some definitions, didn't I? :D
12:17:42 <glx> happens when rewriting :)
12:23:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i like the icon from 12:21:44 best
12:24:54 <peter1138> Boom scrollbar capacity crash
12:25:02 <TrueBrain> I used a slight variant of that now LordAro
12:25:05 <TrueBrain> seems most people liked that :)
12:25:07 <LordAro> peter1138: someone should fix that
12:25:26 <peter1138> LordAro, someone should not make a UI that doesn't work right.
12:26:57 <peter1138> It happens when the window size is too small to fit the resize height.
12:27:50 <LordAro> oh, not the "more than 65k lines" issue
12:27:55 <peter1138> Ok, 4x is masssssive.
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12:29:38 <peter1138> Hmm, well, this scrollbar works properly on rescale now, but the resize step of "one industry rectangle" is quite large.
12:30:37 <peter1138> The existing always-10-pixels gets messed up, as the capacity doesn't change.
12:37:41 <peter1138> Voxel Tycoon looks neat, but...
12:40:28 <glx> ok I need to find why, on clean master, rebuilt grf (because grfcodec is "detected" my cmake) are different
12:59:44 <glx> hmm seems to be sprite count, it's 0 in master grf, but correct value in regenerated
13:01:03 <Rubidium> sounds like someone not running nforenum
13:04:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: renaming the function indeed works sufficiently for me
13:04:38 <TrueBrain> as you have to update your commit anyway (commit-checker complains), after NetworkValidateClientName() there is a double newline :P
13:06:46 <TrueBrain> owh, and I am not sure we should consider it a "feature" that we trim names now :D
13:06:50 <TrueBrain> sounds a bit like overselling it :P
13:07:18 <TrueBrain> maybe downscale both features to "adds" :)
13:07:22 <TrueBrain> personal opinion ofc :)
13:10:37 <Rubidium> the feature is more for the validation, but the trim happens first so time wise it should be mentioned first but importance wise last... it's complicated
13:10:53 <TrueBrain> a feature is on the top of our changelog
13:10:58 <TrueBrain> is it really that important to players? :)
13:11:12 <TrueBrain> I could even sell it as a "Change" :)
13:11:30 <Rubidium> is it important to players... no
13:11:39 <Rubidium> is it important to certain server owners... yes
13:11:49 <TrueBrain> honestly curious :)
13:11:56 <TrueBrain> why does anyone care we strip whitespace?
13:12:02 <Rubidium> those that don't like people joining as "Player"
13:12:21 <TrueBrain> ugh .. we really have to change our changelog generation from PR titles :P
13:12:27 <TrueBrain> that would help in these cases :D
13:12:44 <TrueBrain> as the feature basically is, if I get your right: Feature: don't default to "Player" as playername
13:13:02 <Rubidium> I've ripped out the "if you enter a name starting with a space or nothing, just replace it with 'Player'" for "if you enter a name starting with a space trim those away, and if it is empty give a warning to enter a name"
13:13:47 <peter1138> Hmm, it's bugging me that UpdateWidgetSize() treats size and minimum size as the same thing.
13:14:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: commit messages don't have to explain what the code is doing, the diff shows that anyway. So the third commit could be something like:
13:15:08 <TrueBrain> Feature: ensure players fill in a playername (instead of defaulting to "Player")
13:15:28 <TrueBrain> as that is effectively what the commit does, not?
13:16:45 <TrueBrain> (I like that after reading a commit I understand the intention, more than the code change I am about to read :P)
13:16:53 <TrueBrain> commit -> commitmessage
13:17:38 <TrueBrain> nah; just bikeshedding
13:17:46 <TrueBrain> making our changelog-creator's life a bit easier, I hope :)
13:18:49 <TrueBrain> I did not realise it yet, but that is a feature MANY people will enjoy
13:18:53 <TrueBrain> even non-server-admins :P
13:22:44 <glx> ok was a config issue, I incorrectly set NFORENUM_EXECUTABLE, but it didn't failed to run the script
13:24:40 <glx> that's what I'm doing now :)
13:29:57 <_dp_> trimming is not important but removing default "player" rly is
13:30:19 <_dp_> when steam just came out it looked ridiculous when > 15 players on server and all "Player #n"
13:30:21 <TrueBrain> and the commit message put me on the wrong foot :D But it is all dandy now :D
13:31:49 <glx> oh find_program() doesn't check the validity of provided var it seems
13:41:12 <TrueBrain> I cannot find a sane place for "new company" button in the new GUI
13:41:17 <peter1138> Now split these patches up into managable PRs...
13:42:32 <TrueBrain> owh, you have to be a spectator in order to create a new company?
13:42:36 <TrueBrain> that is enforced by asserts
13:43:09 <TrueBrain> is there truly an issue if you are not?
13:48:15 <_dp_> there are probably not just aserts but some command check on the server side
14:02:55 <TrueBrain> button at the bottom really didn't work, as it is only available as spectator. Really confusing UX if I put it at the bottom
14:03:01 <TrueBrain> this in between the list .. I guess it can work
14:03:05 <TrueBrain> but it is not super dupah clear
14:13:17 <TrueBrain> dunno .. need opinions :)
14:20:19 <TrueBrain> peter1138: the network chat history looks awesome
14:20:21 <TrueBrain> just wanted to say that :D
14:20:25 <TrueBrain> helped me a few times already :D
14:31:54 <TrueBrain> well, at least GOG accepted my grahpics
14:32:00 <TrueBrain> that ... yeah, good to hear :)
14:43:57 <TrueBrain> I love how GOG tells us: we are going the QA process for your build
14:44:44 <_dp_> may be they just like the game ;)
14:54:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #9085: Fix: [CMake] Validate grfcodec and nforenum executables https://git.io/JOMXf
15:05:18 <glx> hmm if server can be renamed in GUI, maybe password can be modified too
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15:45:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9085: Fix: [CMake] Validate grfcodec and nforenum executables https://git.io/JOMXf
16:18:41 <peter1138> Oof. 40km ride, this time it definitely did not help my back at all :(
16:20:50 <peter1138> Otoh, at least I did 40km exercise eh
16:22:16 <peter1138> Also something wonky with my HR at the start, dunno what was going on there.
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16:40:56 <peter1138> Perhaps pizza tonight?
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16:45:49 <LordAro> peter1138: nah, sausages
16:52:11 <andythenorth> deliveroo chicken
16:52:13 <peter1138> Diagonal level crossings eh?
17:04:43 <peter1138> Hmm, which of the 5 different industry sets in FIRS should I test?
17:20:00 <peter1138> Minimap needs a scrollbar :/
17:22:12 <andythenorth> peter1138 all of them together
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17:28:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 updated pull request #9080: Feature: Do not default the player name to "Player" https://git.io/JOXqC
17:32:19 <nielsm> bad idea: use the function that can generate a random company president name to generate a random player name
17:35:48 <Wolf01> Use the old english town name generator :P
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17:41:28 <_dp_> I kinda did it the other way: if "player" renames president, set the player name as well
17:42:38 <glx> works with multiple payers in same company ?
17:43:01 <nielsm> that's a rare situation isn't it
17:43:03 <_dp_> well, who renames gets the name
17:43:16 <_dp_> not as rare as you might think
17:43:18 <nielsm> yeah it'd be a client side thing I guess
17:43:59 <_dp_> at least with the current ui whenever people search the ways to rename themselves that's the only option that even remotely similar
17:46:02 <peter1138> Isn't it obvious that you should just google for it?
17:47:03 <_dp_> searching in the ui and asking in chat seem to be quite popular first actions as welll
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17:48:48 <andythenorth> going by blitz, it should do things like
17:49:06 <andythenorth> xXxXxProSniperKillerAssAssinxXxXx
17:49:36 <andythenorth> Blitz playernames are like watching magical thinking in action
17:50:08 <andythenorth> xX__Dave_Super_Accurate_Alpha_Killer__Xx = 40% WR, hit rate 10% below normal
17:50:22 <andythenorth> noob_1 = 70%, top 100 player
17:52:57 <peter1138> peter1138 = makes a couple of trains and then goes to fix something
17:53:41 <andythenorth> andythenorth = open game, declare everything broken
17:55:45 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:58:16 <andythenorth> hmm should I join reddit?
18:17:31 <peter1138> Even I don't still run a 32bit server...
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18:27:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] TheDude-gh opened issue #206: town_euclidean_dist - Industry variable returns wrong value https://git.io/JODOk
18:30:34 <TrueBrain> wow, so he can do it \o/
18:32:11 <frosch123> today i had a seminar about emotion in communication, maybe they also had one :p
18:34:24 <frosch123> so, let's see whether eints reacts as expected to making all languages finished
18:35:38 <frosch123> also, why does gog send us the customer newsletter instead of a partner newsletter?
18:35:51 <andythenorth> why do I play this game?
18:36:08 <frosch123> to know you are top 10% ?
18:36:26 <andythenorth> I am 'a bit above average' :P
18:36:43 <frosch123> usually you talk about how the rich kids are below average
18:37:31 <andythenorth> player says 'noob team'
18:37:44 <andythenorth> player must always get 'noob team' right?
18:38:09 <andythenorth> I'd say Dunning Kruger, except apparently DK is a myth
18:38:24 <frosch123> some myths are better than other :p
18:40:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: here we say: the most equitably distributed property is "brain". everyone thinks they got enough of it.
18:42:30 <andythenorth> common sense: not commonly distributed
18:42:44 <andythenorth> frosch123 I think that's probably better than DK
18:42:54 <andythenorth> DK authors apparently over-estimated their mathematical skills
18:43:00 <andythenorth> so allegedly the paper is flawed
18:43:39 <Timberwolf> I would like more brain, although I doubt my ability to use it for anything productive.
18:45:52 <andythenorth> lol 35% player on my team
18:45:57 <andythenorth> 100 games afk gets 42%
18:46:01 <andythenorth> so that's special
18:53:45 <TrueBrain> I love questions, means I can answer them \o/
18:55:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9080: Feature: Do not default the player name to "Player" https://git.io/JODGr
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19:03:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: never say that around parents with toddlers :p
19:04:10 <TrueBrain> they just have to suck it up and deal with the problem they created
19:09:56 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i would expect "(you)" to go after the name
19:10:11 <LordAro> beyond that it's up to translators to ...translate it properly
19:11:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: as suffix it is easily lost due to width issues
19:11:17 <TrueBrain> that is why I made it a prefix
19:11:28 <TrueBrain> but in the end, it is mostly text as I didn't know how to make icons :P
19:12:02 <frosch123> haha, expect 100 new icons in the next month :p
19:12:15 <TrueBrain> I am a big fan of icons over text on buttons like this
19:12:21 <TrueBrain> but we don't have many buttons like this
19:15:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9080: Feature: Do not default the player name to "Player" https://git.io/JODcO
19:16:21 <frosch123> isn't there already such function for the server name?
19:16:22 <LordAro> it's not exactly a showstopper
19:18:00 <frosch123> while c++20 adds string::starts_with and ends_with, there is still no trim() :)
19:18:21 <TrueBrain> they will catch up with .. insert-any-other-language-here .. in 3 more years
19:19:16 <frosch123> hmm, i don't think that many languages have a trim
19:20:06 <TrueBrain> I now wonder how many other languages frosch123 uses :D
19:20:34 <frosch123> when the js ecosystem broke down a few years ago, because someone removed their library from npm, wasn't that library about trim a well?
19:21:27 <TrueBrain> part of the specs :)
19:21:31 <Timberwolf> Prefixing strings to make them fixed length.
19:21:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: a lot of "used somewhen in the past", very little "still using actively"
19:21:50 <TrueBrain> any other language you want to guess that doesn't have trim? :D :D
19:22:14 <TrueBrain> C++ is really behind on those things :)
19:22:15 <glx> seems C# as trim() too, you can even pass it which chars you want to trim, can be anything
19:22:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: your favorite language, C89
19:22:36 <TrueBrain> well, if C++ doesn't have it
19:22:40 <TrueBrain> neither does C89 ofc
19:22:42 <TrueBrain> that is just silly :)
19:23:01 <TrueBrain> ADA, Fortran .. sure :)
19:23:28 <LordAro> Ada has a trim function :p
19:23:44 <frosch123> all those banking/insurance languages
19:23:46 <Timberwolf> Bloody hell, even Go has it, and Go is pretty aggressive at "this is simple, implement it yourself"
19:24:03 <LordAro> and can take an arbitrary set of characters
19:24:38 <LordAro> or even a different set of characters for left and right
19:24:59 <frosch123> that sounds a bit over-engineered :p
19:25:20 <LordAro> only trailing though :p
19:25:41 <TrueBrain> so really .. any-other-language-except-C++ :P
19:25:53 <LordAro> i'd put money on cobol not having it
19:27:16 <TrueBrain> and ... full recompile because I added a language string
19:27:22 <TrueBrain> this makes GUI development so slow
19:27:32 <frosch123> LordAro: wow, even fortran90
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19:27:41 <_dp_> I bet Brainfuck doesn't have trim :p
19:27:48 <frosch123> i would have betted that any pre-1990 language does not have trim()
19:27:50 <glx> full recompile because touching cmake is not better
19:28:15 <frosch123> stuff like awk have regex, but no trim
19:29:34 <LordAro> very much a "implement it yourself"
19:29:56 <_dp_> C++ sometimes feels like a modern version of Brainfuck tbh :p
19:31:14 <TrueBrain> can I kick people for saying "boost" ? :D :D
19:31:54 <glx> usually boost implementation ends in c++ std lib at some point
19:32:50 <frosch123> LordAro: looks like PL/I has no trim function, because it only has fixed-size char arrays, which you fill with blanks at the end
19:34:10 <glx> but most of boost seems overcomplicated
19:34:51 <frosch123> [21:31] <glx> usually boost implementation ends in c++ std lib at some point <- actually, i don't think that is true
19:35:03 <frosch123> there are tons of boost libs, which noone would consider for standard
19:35:25 <glx> I was thinking of format stuff
19:35:46 <frosch123> boost::serialiation, boost::geometry, 3 (?) variants of boost::coroutine, 3 (?) variants of smart pointers (in addition to those who made it into the standard)
19:36:16 <frosch123> boost is more like jgrpp
19:36:26 <frosch123> it's an experimentation playground
19:36:51 <frosch123> not everything ends up popular, though there are always some fanboys for everything :)
19:36:57 <glx> anyway std lib should have a command line parsing thing
19:37:30 <frosch123> yeah, that always annoys me when doing windows stuff
19:37:49 <frosch123> windows command line parameters are so random, at least 3 different ways to do it
19:38:33 <glx> for grfcodec I had to reinclude getopt
19:38:58 <glx> I looked at boost version (as boost is already used in grfcodec) but it's a pain to use
19:39:57 <frosch123> at some point we should get rid of grfcodec and nforenum, and extract enough from nml to make some pygrfcodec
19:41:27 <TrueBrain> hmm, I really like the "new company" in the list, more than any button .. how ever I make a button, it looks very out of place ..
19:43:18 <frosch123> hmm, how are the companies sorted?
19:43:40 <frosch123> how about putting the players' company always at the top? and then also put the new-company at the top, if specator
19:44:16 <frosch123> possibly some stronger separator between players' company and other companies
19:44:24 <glx> as it's just the result of Iterate()
19:44:41 <frosch123> i could imagine players of your own company being more interesting than players of other companies
19:44:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #9057: Codechange: Use std::string in console commands/aliases registration, and std::map instead our sorted linked list https://git.io/JODl1
19:44:52 <frosch123> so putting it at the top, is easier than searching the list for your company
19:47:42 <frosch123> having the "new company" somewhere in the middle, between last company and spectators, is also weird. i think it would also look better in first row
19:49:36 <frosch123> for context: you need all these buttons in this window, because you want to make players always join as spectators? (i read something about that somewhen, and it made sense, but no idea whether that is on your agenda)
19:50:02 <TrueBrain> with this GUI, I don't mind doing that
19:50:08 <TrueBrain> I do not think the lobby window adds value
19:50:12 <TrueBrain> and is just an extra annoying step now
19:50:23 <LordAro> as long as this new window is open on join
19:50:40 <TrueBrain> and making everyone join as spectator, solves a lot of annoyance
19:50:53 <TrueBrain> let me test your suggestions frosch123
19:51:32 <glx> prevents empty company creation for anyone just wanting to see the game
19:51:57 <TrueBrain> which happens a lot, server hosts tell me
19:53:07 <glx> yeah I remember the test game, when I rejoined a new company was created, then I moved myself back in my original company
19:54:17 <LordAro> that was more of an issue with with TB's network stuff :p
19:54:45 <TrueBrain> well, maybe someone like _dp_ can enlighten us, but from what I read, that happens a lot
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19:55:20 <frosch123> i guess the next step would be to prompt for a company password when creating a new company :p
19:55:29 <TrueBrain> isn't that already an option?
19:55:52 <_dp_> not sure what else to say about it, happens a lot but I have no exact stats :p
19:56:13 <TrueBrain> that is sufficient :D
19:57:05 <_dp_> also I very much like the idea of replacing the whole server lobby with new window
19:57:09 <frosch123> i still see threads "to all new players: this happend to me, set a company password, so it does not happen to you"
19:57:36 <glx> there's a field in openttd.cfg
19:57:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is not on by default, that is for sure
19:57:38 <frosch123> but i have no idea :)
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19:57:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: a default company password sounds "useful" :p
19:58:07 <TrueBrain> by default forcing one, grr :P
19:58:23 <frosch123> how about "password"? would match "player"
19:58:50 <TrueBrain> your own company at top
19:59:01 <TrueBrain> spectators always at bottom
19:59:03 <TrueBrain> even if you are in it
19:59:38 <_dp_> frosch123, that's probably even worse than no password: griefers will know it but players will still find a way to forget xD
19:59:43 <frosch123> i would put the icon for "new company" into the same column as the "join company" though
20:00:03 <frosch123> instead of flush-right everything
20:00:30 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I think I have to align them somehow
20:00:36 <TrueBrain> but that is code-wise annoying :D
20:00:49 <TrueBrain> is the highlight and color of new company okay?
20:01:01 <TrueBrain> guess the checkerboard thing can be removed now
20:01:14 <nielsm> TrueBrain: solution to not having "you", if you have the Company listed in the Player box too, then you can get away with just highlighting the player in another colour that the rest of the players
20:01:34 <TrueBrain> nielsm: colouring players without a way to explain what the colour means, not a fan
20:01:37 <TrueBrain> but I also have "host"
20:01:40 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yeah, no checker, also possibly white instead of yellow, just to reduce the total number of colors used in that window
20:02:01 <nielsm> if there is exactly one that is different from the rest, and that one different is you, it's kind of obvious
20:02:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, but there isn't one
20:02:13 <TrueBrain> there is (you) and (host)
20:02:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that works
20:03:00 <TrueBrain> nielsm: but I can just put a small icon in front of the name, I tihnk that will work just fine
20:03:24 <TrueBrain> nah .. more like a crown for host
20:03:25 <LordAro> as long as the icon has a tooltip :)
20:03:28 <TrueBrain> not sure about "you" yet
20:03:47 <LordAro> if "you" is just a tooltip, there's no issues with length
20:03:48 <TrueBrain> I think a player icon for "you", like the join without the +
20:03:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: we have a crown icon :p used for the company with exclusive transport rights in the town authority window
20:04:26 <frosch123> though reusing icons for different purposes can end up badly
20:04:31 <TrueBrain> white and no checkerfilling
20:04:36 <LordAro> one fewer icon for andy to draw!
20:04:36 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah ... true ...
20:04:44 <TrueBrain> but I can at least copy it :D
20:05:10 <frosch123> hmm, i probably should take a look at the "preview build", but i expected an admin button for your own company, to change company password or something
20:05:51 <frosch123> maybe "too many buttons" syndrome :)
20:06:45 <TrueBrain> admin buttons are only there for server host
20:06:53 <glx> a click on company line to open company window ?
20:07:00 <TrueBrain> I am trying to avoid feature creep as much as possible
20:07:02 <TrueBrain> but it is really hard :P
20:07:11 <TrueBrain> glx: I don't like hidden actions, so I haven't done that
20:07:40 <TrueBrain> although I do not like CTRL, that would be acceptable to me :)
20:07:46 <TrueBrain> as I can write that in the tooltip :P
20:07:58 <TrueBrain> just too bad we don't change the mouse depending if you can click something or not
20:08:15 <frosch123> "ctrl+chat" for "kick"? :p
20:08:40 <_dp_> yeye, ctrl+admin for ban
20:08:50 <_dp_> ctrl+shift+admin for ban without confirmation :p
20:09:02 <TrueBrain> ctrl+shift+gtfo for insanity :P
20:09:23 <TrueBrain> okay ... still not happy with the top part of the window
20:09:29 <TrueBrain> but we have so little UI elements to work with that ..
20:09:43 <TrueBrain> but enough for today
20:09:50 <_dp_> you can try to just get rid of frames...
20:09:50 <TrueBrain> tomorrow I add some more icons
20:09:51 <frosch123> ctrl+shift+admin on host to kick eveyone and convert into single-player game
20:09:54 <TrueBrain> and I think I leave it at that for now ..
20:10:02 <TrueBrain> _dp_: tried, but that also looked weird ..
20:12:22 <_dp_> hm, most players won't see server part though
20:12:38 <TrueBrain> mostly as we do not sync the info yet
20:13:02 <_dp_> you mean you plan to show server name for regular players as well?
20:13:23 <_dp_> cool, that's somewhat useful
20:13:42 <_dp_> I've seen ppl asking how server is called multiple times
20:14:05 <TrueBrain> required for rich presence :)
20:14:13 <_dp_> when they want to call a friend but have no idea what they joined xD
20:15:03 <glx> single player will be multiplayer in disguise
20:16:09 <frosch123> no more cheats, no more changing newgrf in-game :)
20:23:15 * andythenorth has fixed the hot tub
20:27:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #42: Update language definitions: no more unstable, add Hindi https://git.io/JODRc
20:27:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #42: Update language definitions: no more unstable, add Hindi https://git.io/JODR8
20:28:45 <andythenorth> strictly, I moved the hot tub from the completely rotten area of decking
20:28:48 <andythenorth> to a less rotten area
20:28:50 <andythenorth> and filled it up
20:29:03 <andythenorth> it only weighs 800kg, probably fine
20:29:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9080: Feature: Do not default the player name to "Player" https://git.io/JODRK
20:35:18 <andythenorth> did I miss the livestream? :)
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20:42:38 <TrueBrain> I should livestream the GUI hellhole
20:44:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #9057: Codechange: Use std::string in console commands/aliases registration, and std::map instead our sorted linked list https://git.io/JOu1a
20:44:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #9057: Codechange: Use std::string in console commands/aliases registration, and std::map instead our sorted linked list https://git.io/JOD0F
20:46:41 <frosch123> i hit some weird hotkey, i was not finshed typing at all :(
20:46:59 <TrueBrain> wtf is that hindi template
20:47:28 <TrueBrain> that looks really weird frosch123 :D
20:49:56 <frosch123> what is weird about it?
20:50:05 <frosch123> i preadded all strings that need no translation
20:50:10 <TrueBrain> how did you create it? :D
20:50:34 <frosch123> all strings that only have whitespace and commands
20:51:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #9086: Move all 'unstable' languages to 'stable', add Hindi https://git.io/JODEZ
20:51:30 <frosch123> eints did the formatting, yes
20:56:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 merged pull request #42: Update language definitions: no more unstable, add Hindi https://git.io/JODRc
20:57:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #9086: Move all 'unstable' languages to 'stable', add Hindi https://git.io/JOD0j
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21:11:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #207: Fix #206: Apply correct mask to `town_euclidean_dist` variables https://git.io/JODui
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21:15:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #207: Fix #206: Apply correct mask to `town_euclidean_dist` variables https://git.io/JODup
21:18:49 <frosch123> pff, those variables are broken in ottd :p
21:19:14 <frosch123> i was wondering why industries use a 60+x variable with parameter for that
21:19:25 <frosch123> and ottd does not use the parameter :p
21:19:28 <frosch123> however, the specs do
21:19:43 <frosch123> though in a pretty useless way
21:20:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you have an idea for a "radar" industry?
21:20:37 <frosch123> turns our you can measure the distance to nearest town from different tiles of an industry
21:20:49 <frosch123> so you can probably triangulate the exact position of the town
21:23:08 <andythenorth> wonder if that overlaps with a FIRS bug I don't understand
21:23:18 <andythenorth> some industries are supposed to locate 'near' towns
21:23:29 <andythenorth> bet you that bug is my own creation though
21:24:15 <glx> if FIRS tries to check with different parameters then maybe
21:24:45 <andythenorth> I am not looking now, it's a rat's nest of recursive templates
21:25:34 <andythenorth> seems nearby_tile_class
21:25:39 <glx> openttd always use industry's northern tile, even if param is given
21:28:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 merged pull request #207: Fix #206: Apply correct mask to `town_euclidean_dist` variables https://git.io/JODui
21:33:34 <frosch123> hmm, looks like org:write is not enough to create teams
21:35:36 <glx> I should be able to add the team
21:36:00 <frosch123> glx: i used tb's script, so had to create a pat with some permissions
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21:36:18 <frosch123> but gh does not sort teams alphabetically :p
21:41:23 <frosch123> triggered eints->git, let's see what happens :)
21:45:43 <frosch123> looks like nml does not care about languages :)
21:45:57 <glx> nml doesn't care about many things ;)
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21:52:06 <frosch123> ah, another PR needed for workflows :)
21:53:08 <frosch123> hmm, no, that magic is also in eints
21:53:25 <frosch123> or rather, in the special ottd branch of it
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22:01:38 <frosch123> the basesets have no unstable languages, it's optional
22:01:47 <frosch123> (until proven wrong :p)
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22:04:31 <frosch123> hmm, why does nml care about plural forms
22:04:32 <glx> basesets use the list filled when generating lang compile commands
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22:07:39 <glx> maybe to validate the parameters
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22:09:21 <frosch123> funny, nml also allows iso-codes for ##grflangid
22:10:24 <glx> undocumented nml feature ? so surprising ;)
22:10:26 <frosch123> used in the regression though
22:11:11 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
22:11:30 <glx> at least the workflow ran
22:11:30 <frosch123> yay, no total havoc :)
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22:14:36 <glx> anyway nml still has to validate strings as they may not come from eints
22:15:15 <frosch123> sure, but each grf can use whatever plural/cases/genders they like
22:15:25 <frosch123> why does nml need to check against some weird table?
22:15:45 <frosch123> if i now update Romanian, nml will error on all existing grfs
22:15:51 <frosch123> when in fact it should be compatible
22:16:06 <frosch123> i think the correct action is to delete that nml feature :p
22:20:36 <glx> maybe nml should just warn if plural form is different
22:21:02 <frosch123> that would still require to maintain a table of all languages in nml :)
22:22:19 <glx> oh and nml is missing the recent plural form added to openttd I think :)
22:23:16 <frosch123> yep, that's in my local HEAD currently :p
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22:57:05 <frosch123> nml#206 is actually an ottd bug
22:57:14 <frosch123> townzone is not meant to be part of var 66
22:58:44 <frosch123> even in ttdp it can return values bigger than 16bit
22:58:58 <glx> misunderstanding of grf spec ?
22:59:17 <frosch123> no, just copy&paste in ottd
22:59:26 <frosch123> the parameter was missing as well
23:00:30 <glx> same for object var 46 then
23:12:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #9088: Fix: [NewGRF] industry variables 65 and 66, object variable 46 https://git.io/JOD6Q
23:15:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 updated pull request #9088: Fix: [NewGRF] industry variables 65 and 66, object variable 46 https://git.io/JOD6Q
23:15:10 <frosch123> even the typos in the comments were copied :p
23:15:37 <glx> so I need to revert nml#207
23:16:10 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 181.01933598375618
23:16:38 <frosch123> it only matters if distance to town is big
23:16:54 <glx> but nml doesn't follow the spec now ;)
23:16:59 <frosch123> 181 tiles in manhatten distance
23:17:12 <frosch123> and nml doing it wrong makes it compatible with old ottd :p
23:18:07 <frosch123> hmm, my 181 computation is silly :p
23:18:17 <frosch123> 256 tiles in euclidian distance
23:20:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #9088: Fix: [NewGRF] industry variables 65 and 66, object variable 46 https://git.io/JODiZ
23:20:52 <glx> maybe we wait until next openttd release to revert nml#207
23:22:09 <glx> in theory distance to town should not be that big
23:22:27 <frosch123> people play on 4kx4k maps with 3 towns :p
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23:47:09 <frosch123> let's sleep over that
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continue to next day ⏵
