IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-04-22
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00:44:28 <peter1138> Hmm, does WSL 2 run Linux as a VM? Interesting.
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06:32:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9077: [Win32] Limit OpenGL video driver to OpenGL 3.2 or newer. https://git.io/JOi8x
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06:55:42 <TrueBrain> so my C drive keeps filling up with random junk .. running out of ideas how to keep it clean :P
06:55:52 <TrueBrain> and 15GB of free diskspace is not that good :P
07:00:38 <LordAro> stop downloading random junk
07:01:59 <TrueBrain> its not even that :'(
07:02:03 <TrueBrain> Just Windows being Windows ..
07:02:04 <Rubidium> I've got a good one. Install Windows on D:
07:02:16 <Rubidium> likely keeps C: much cleaner
07:02:26 <TrueBrain> moving the issue .. nice :D
07:02:39 <LordAro> Windows being Windows can generally be sorted by running disk cleanup
07:02:46 <LordAro> but i'd be surprised if you didn't know that
07:02:55 <TrueBrain> yeah, it reports 200MB :P
07:03:11 <LordAro> even with "cleanup system files"?
07:03:25 <LordAro> apparently i have 350MB of thumbnails
07:03:29 <LordAro> which is.. surprising
07:03:48 <TrueBrain> 214MB with system files :P
07:04:01 <TrueBrain> owh, and 8GB on Update Cleanup
07:04:07 <TrueBrain> that is all not really making a dent
07:04:30 <LordAro> i recommend windirstat / wiztree for working out where the space has gone
07:05:16 <Rubidium> disable hibernation and swap file (and delete those)
07:05:30 <TrueBrain> hibernation is only 13GB
07:05:35 <TrueBrain> and swap? You enable swap? :P
07:05:46 <Rubidium> it's enabled by default
07:06:21 <LordAro> we've already found 21GB you didn't know about :p
07:06:26 <TrueBrain> is it me, or is finding the homepage of wiztree difficult?
07:06:33 <TrueBrain> I end up on these weird sites for downloads
07:06:54 <Rubidium> and to be honest... yes, I've got it enabled on my work computer with 16GB of memory. I rather have it put unused bits of crap application in the swap file, than not having a whole database in memory or something similar
07:07:43 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I use a product called 'MacSweeper'
07:07:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I cannot even remember if I have it enabled or not .. but not on the C, that is for sure :P
07:07:53 <andythenorth> I just click a button and it cleans up my C drive
07:07:58 <andythenorth> removes unwanted plugins
07:08:02 <andythenorth> defragments the drive
07:08:12 <andythenorth> checks for malware
07:08:12 <TrueBrain> defrag .. on an SSD .. how cute :)
07:08:33 <andythenorth> I found it one day from a big popup ad on the internet
07:08:40 <TrueBrain> tnx LordAro , wiztree at least tells me where the issue is :D
07:08:51 <TrueBrain> I was always just selcting files and pressing alt+enter :P
07:09:00 <andythenorth> get back disk space by deleting unused internet cookies
07:09:14 <andythenorth> oh this is real?
07:09:28 <andythenorth> someone didn't send us spam about cleaning our C drives?
07:09:36 <LordAro> sarcasm on the internet is hard: Do not do this
07:09:40 <TrueBrain> ah .. see ,now, this I missed .. there is a backup file in a weird folder ...
07:10:52 <peter1138> Is it colder today, or am I just up earlier?
07:12:27 <LordAro> hmm, GTAV takes up nearly 100GB
07:12:31 <LordAro> i haven't played that in years
07:13:02 <TrueBrain> years ago I bought a separate SSD for just games
07:13:06 <TrueBrain> as I kept forgetting to delete games
07:13:12 <TrueBrain> now I am forced to clean up once in a while
07:13:41 <peter1138> If I uninstalled games I don't play, I could have tons of space...
07:14:05 <LordAro> yeah, i already have 500G free, i'm not particularly worried
07:15:36 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I really should buy a new SSD, just for things like WSL2 and VMs I now have for OpenTTD development ..
07:15:43 <TrueBrain> they eat a lot of space over several drives now :P
07:19:27 <TrueBrain> tnx again LordAro , wiztree helped out a lot :D
07:19:36 <andythenorth> this realism braking patch
07:19:40 <andythenorth> visually so nice
07:20:11 <LordAro> i presume it's a passive implementation hack
07:20:26 <LordAro> doesn't it do something with invisible trains?
07:20:42 <LordAro> (of course, not that "massive hacks" like that are particularly out of the question, look at aircraft)
07:21:06 <andythenorth> not sure what the implementation is
07:21:34 <andythenorth> it (1) reserves blocks ahead of the train (2) decelerates trains at a slower rate
07:23:15 <peter1138> Sounds like a bad feature.
07:23:50 <peter1138> We can't have things that look nice.
07:25:51 <peter1138> I think I just put my back out again putting my socks on. Fuck it.
07:30:01 * andythenorth estimates peter1138 is 37 years old
07:32:13 <peter1138> (r.top + r.bottom - FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL) / 2
07:32:42 <peter1138> Does that work? heh
07:35:53 <Rubidium> if you want the middle of r minus half the font height, then it ought to work. It is slightly different from (r.top + r.bottom) / 2 - FONT_HEIGHT_NORMAL / 2 but that's due to the implied rounding of the integers, so maybe this is even better with even r "height" and odd font height
07:40:45 <andythenorth> realistic braking for ships? :)
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07:50:12 <TrueBrain> I tried enabling Windows Insider Program
07:50:30 <TrueBrain> after spending 30 minutes trying to get Diagnostics to "Full" (which is now called Optional), and it still complaining it isn't set to "Full"
07:50:39 <TrueBrain> fucking retarded software this is sometimes ..
07:52:49 <TrueBrain> LordAro: anyway, to answer the question from yesterday, why LCs statement about the Network GUI is conceptually misleading. The current GUI has no scrollbar. So after N clients, depending on what fits on your screen, they drop off
07:53:04 <TrueBrain> this means that on any realistic setting, where the GUI is increased in scaling when the resolution gets higher
07:53:10 <TrueBrain> you can never see more than N clients on your screen
07:53:30 <TrueBrain> what he did, and what is just ... not nice, is use GUI at 1x, and a high-res monitor
07:53:37 <TrueBrain> giving the illusion he can see a lot of clients online
07:53:40 <TrueBrain> but that is his niche
07:53:48 <TrueBrain> which is very unlikely to be true for more than 1% of our users
07:54:26 <TrueBrain> that is why I mentioned he build his argument on flawed "facts"
07:54:52 <TrueBrain> so yes, the new GUI takes a bit more room vertically, as companies are now in the list
07:54:56 <TrueBrain> but it also shows a scrollbar :P
07:55:03 <TrueBrain> it is still far from ideal, don't get me wrong
07:55:20 <TrueBrain> I rather do something like Minecraft, where if you press <tab> you see all clients, in a matrix of 5xN or something
07:56:04 <andythenorth> LC's savegame showing Iron Horse was flawed was....interesting
07:56:05 <TrueBrain> but the claim that you can see N clients with the old GUI and you cannot see them with the new, with N > 30, is only really true on his setup .. at least, that is my take on this :)
07:56:25 <TrueBrain> of course, I can be convinced otherwise, with logical constructive arguments :P
07:58:15 <TrueBrain> so yes, "strictly seen" he is correct. Just in a way that is not representative of the 99%, I would guess :)
07:58:42 <andythenorth> I received a savegame showing I had broken core train gameplay
07:59:04 <andythenorth> because pax carriages for short routes couldn't be used profitably on a 1024-long route
07:59:15 <andythenorth> on a 4kx4k map, of course, a 1024 tile route is 'short'
07:59:26 <andythenorth> it was 100% true
07:59:31 <andythenorth> but completely fucking stupid
07:59:37 <LordAro> i'm not sure i'd buy that
07:59:56 <LordAro> a 64 length route on a 256x256 map is not "short"
08:00:19 <andythenorth> I circumvented the whole discussion by deleting features :)
08:00:46 <TrueBrain> it is what he does; reframing his niche to be "normal", by using normalizing words
08:00:50 <LordAro> sounds like letting the terrorists win
08:01:07 <TrueBrain> which puts us in the defense .. resulting in people removing features :P
08:01:29 <TrueBrain> he has a slick tongue for it ..
08:01:46 <LordAro> on the other hand, the savegame he gave me to demonstrate various road speed pathfinding things was very helpful
08:02:03 <LordAro> i still use it occasionally for testing other things
08:02:20 <TrueBrain> factually he is mostly correct
08:02:23 <TrueBrain> which is the problem
08:02:29 <TrueBrain> just often offset to ... a weird extreme
08:03:01 <TrueBrain> calling a 1024 route "short", is an extreme :P
08:03:33 <TrueBrain> either way, now to generate a game with N joined clients, just to get a pretty screenshot .. :D
08:04:47 <andythenorth> much easier to just delete things than engage :)
08:07:26 <TrueBrain> which reminds me, we do need to add a "Streamer" mode to the Network GUI ... must not forget that :P
08:07:35 <TrueBrain> showing invite codes won't be appreciated by streamers :P
08:07:52 <LordAro> or just hidden by default
08:07:58 <TrueBrain> I think I do that, yes
08:08:03 <TrueBrain> and an eye-icon to show it
08:08:04 <LordAro> no need to make it a setting :)
08:08:33 <TrueBrain> I love how Rb found a bug in the existing code by testing my PR :D
08:08:41 <TrueBrain> servers don't get the client list updated on join of a client
08:15:50 <LordAro> ah, but that is not the most extreme example - 16+ players in 16 companies
08:16:10 <TrueBrain> yeah, every company has an additional row
08:16:16 <TrueBrain> so that would make it bigger for sure
08:16:29 <Rubidium> LordAro: that's out of scope for TB's patch ;)
08:16:51 <TrueBrain> I think he means that with 16 companies, there are 15 more rows in that window
08:16:55 <TrueBrain> so it is higher in that case
08:16:58 <peter1138> It's different! Throw it out!
08:17:01 <Rubidium> with 15 companies though... just take a look at the PR
08:17:29 <LordAro> i do wonder though...
08:17:32 <peter1138> How many companies can you have?
08:17:43 <LordAro> in the vast majority of cases, there's only going to be one client per company
08:18:43 <TrueBrain> 1 or 2 clients, yeah
08:19:32 <LordAro> so from that perspective, "doubling" the height of the window seems a bit much
08:19:41 <TrueBrain> if you compare things, sure
08:19:47 <TrueBrain> but I do not think that is fair
08:19:52 <TrueBrain> I rather look at what it gives the user
08:20:02 <TrueBrain> the old window made it really difficult to see you could chat with companies
08:20:09 <TrueBrain> or in which companies clients were
08:20:17 <TrueBrain> this way makes it a lot more obvious
08:20:22 <TrueBrain> so yeah, those cases take more room
08:20:24 <TrueBrain> but is that a problem?
08:20:37 <LordAro> i'm just wondering if you could make the window a bit wider and just fit client & company on the same row
08:20:47 <LordAro> or possibly make it expandable, like the settings tree
08:21:07 <TrueBrain> expandable seems like an anti-feature to me :P As in, you want to see clients as primary information, I think
08:21:11 <TrueBrain> a company overview we already have
08:21:33 <TrueBrain> and I tried other solutions, but I couldn't find any I like
08:21:40 <TrueBrain> the current window has company + client on the same line
08:21:45 <TrueBrain> but that makes interactions really fuzzy and weird
08:21:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOg3z
08:21:54 <TrueBrain> but I am not an UXer, so I might not see all solutions here :D
08:22:14 <TrueBrain> still, the last image I linked, shows that the multiplayer list is not longer than the minimap, for example
08:22:40 <TrueBrain> so personally I am not too worried about the "increased height"; I am more interested in if this is visually usable
08:22:54 <TrueBrain> and I would rather have something slick to make the difference between company and client more clear
08:22:59 <TrueBrain> but I ran out of ideas for that
08:23:13 <TrueBrain> I want to make the whole background the company colour .. but that idea got shot down :P
08:23:16 <TrueBrain> (rightfully, I think)
08:23:19 <peter1138> Have two versions, and use the window-size button to switch types. Just because maintaining two separate client list codes is a GREAT idea
08:23:42 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i suppose i don't have to tell you about the padding on the buttons :p
08:23:49 <LordAro> other than that, it looks fine :)
08:23:53 <TrueBrain> that only happens with certain fonts
08:24:10 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I had the code open to look into that :D
08:24:17 <TrueBrain> but I am happy it annoys you too :P
08:24:20 <peter1138> Base line of truetype fonts varies by font.
08:24:23 <TrueBrain> means I really have to fix it
08:24:33 <TrueBrain> int offset = (this->line_height - button->height) / 2;
08:24:42 <LordAro> game should be designed around the spritefont :p
08:24:42 <TrueBrain> seems to dislike even height for both or something
08:25:17 <peter1138> try (this->line_height - button->height + 1) / 2
08:25:24 <peter1138> (Which is what we do elsewhere.
08:25:40 <TrueBrain> I already copied this code from somewhere, hoping they fixed it :P
08:28:01 <peter1138> My stashes and branches are getting out of hand :(
08:28:14 <peter1138> Rebasing onto non-master is... a pain :p
08:28:35 <LordAro> it is very easy to lose track of stashes
08:28:39 <LordAro> and even local branches
08:29:02 <LordAro> "how many of these local branches have been merged and deleted from the remote?"
08:49:31 <Timberwolf> My favourite is to do some work on the desktop computer in the study, forget to commit or push the last set of changes, then start work on the same thing using the laptop in the lounge...
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08:49:39 <TrueBrain> took some fiddling, but I figured out how to get the alignment correct :D
08:53:51 <TrueBrain> still absolutely not sure about this window .. but at least it is an improvement, and allows me a place to put "invite code" :P
08:53:56 <TrueBrain> that was my only goal :D
08:54:37 <TrueBrain> Xaroth made the suggestion to make it more like Train window, where on the left instead of groups you have Companies, and on the right the clients
08:54:45 <TrueBrain> maybe even an "All" on top, so you can see everyone online
08:55:11 <TrueBrain> but shrug .. we need an UXer :D
08:56:42 <peter1138> The use of the frame border is... unconventional in OpenTTD. It's otherwise only on the main settings window and the credits window.
08:57:07 <TrueBrain> I stole it from the Game Option, if that is what you mean :P
08:57:12 <TrueBrain> open to suggestions?
08:57:22 <peter1138> I don't have any :(
08:58:00 <TrueBrain> I see the top could use some offset, hmm
08:58:09 <TrueBrain> guess a SetPIP wouldn't hurt there
09:02:31 <TrueBrain> I now expect an awesome idea to follow :D
09:02:33 <peter1138> Wrong defaults again :/
09:02:42 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: `+` folding for companies, like CargoDist waiting passengers?
09:02:54 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: problem for me is that clients is the primary information
09:03:09 <TrueBrain> so it should be open by default I think
09:08:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOg3z
09:14:23 <peter1138> WWT_TEXT seems to be the only one...
09:22:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOi5O
09:34:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOg3z
09:37:25 <peter1138> Also wondering if I should rename StringAlignment before I use it.
09:37:58 <peter1138> There's lots of uses of SA_* though, so...
09:38:15 <peter1138> SomethingAlignment :p
09:39:28 <peter1138> Or just remove the part that uses it for images.
09:47:58 <TrueBrain> if you cant fix the name, remove the funcionality :P
09:48:42 <peter1138> I don't want to touch lots of SA_ instances :)
10:30:36 <peter1138> There's got to be an easier way of rewording commits :/
10:42:59 <peter1138> interactive rebate, mark commits to reword, individually reword each commit in an editor.
10:44:39 <Rubidium> yeah, it would be a nice bonus if you could just reword it in that file but then I don't know a better way
10:47:20 <peter1138> Part of "you're not meant to do this"
10:59:04 <peter1138> I don't see the problem with 9079. They expected a sync error, and got a sync error!
11:00:50 <peter1138> newgrfs involved...
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11:10:35 <peter1138> Hmm, has my compilation suddenly gone single threaded... seems to be taking ages to compile :/
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11:22:55 <peter1138> Okay, well, it built. I've forgotten what I was going to test...
12:07:10 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I am hoping your PR lands soon, yes :D That solves a lot of custom code :D
12:09:31 <TrueBrain> wow, that is a lot of code for bad NewGRFs ..
12:11:59 <peter1138> Just remove NewGRF.
12:12:51 <peter1138> Seems to be storing the cache in the savegame.
12:13:11 <peter1138> But without using the normal SaveLoad mechanism.
12:14:34 <LordAro> JGR doesn't use the standard SL mechanism, so that's not too surprising
12:15:08 <peter1138> Means there's no versioning on it.
12:15:41 <LordAro> no, he uses a different mechanism entirely
12:15:46 <LordAro> see the extended_ver_sl files
12:16:19 <peter1138> I'm talking about this bit of code specifically.
12:16:41 <peter1138> Unless SlWriteUint32(var) has some hidden metadata somewhere.
12:17:37 <LordAro> i'm not sure i follow
12:17:37 <peter1138> Okay, it's intended to be transient, only for network saves.
12:22:15 <LordAro> sounds like it should be documented as a known issue, at any rate
12:23:42 <LordAro> or some other solution
12:25:47 <peter1138> We could implement code that determines if the cached vars are the same, so any difference ever would show up.
12:26:05 <peter1138> Or... just save/load all the cached vars as part of saveload anyway, and not care.
12:26:21 <peter1138> We already cache *paths* of all thigns :p
12:26:32 <peter1138> Whose bad idea was that? Oh yes. Mine.
12:28:41 <peter1138> I did resolve a major longstanding issue, so not entirely horrible.
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13:04:27 <peter1138> Hmm, looks like it just tells you that there is a desync.
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13:05:07 <peter1138> Ah no, it does use the values, but also logs a desync.
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13:22:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9075: Fix: Scale rating minigraphs on station window list. https://git.io/JOPRy
13:23:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOPRx
14:00:16 <peter1138> Hmm, why does it take my PC a few seconds to load that game...
14:31:04 <peter1138> Well, I can log that there are differences...
14:31:44 <peter1138> Vehicle prop cached_max_speed differs, 140 -> 120
14:59:25 <peter1138> Well, this doesn't actually work. Hmm.
15:42:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #9063: Codechange: Add widget text colour and alignment property, along with widget parts. https://git.io/JOg3z
15:42:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #9075: Fix: Scale rating minigraphs on station window list. https://git.io/JO6Lc
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16:40:51 <TrueBrain> we don't need IRC anymore :P
16:45:20 <peter1138> Hmm, still some bits that don't resize.
16:46:13 <TrueBrain> lets see if peter1138 's work works :D
16:46:19 <peter1138> Does the colour rectangle in the "Fund new industry" (curiously lower-case) window serve any useful purpose?
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16:46:51 <peter1138> They are the colours used on the minimap, of course.
16:47:02 <peter1138> And the industry chain window. Hmm.
16:47:11 <TrueBrain> they also trigger my OCD
16:47:22 <peter1138> Ah, well, yes. That's where I'm going :-)
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16:48:16 <TrueBrain> well, it is a purpose to have :P
16:48:23 <TrueBrain> triggering OCD, that is
16:48:36 <TrueBrain> so if you change it, I will write some strong words in /dev/null :P
16:48:41 <peter1138> It's one of the last "bits that don't resize" :)
16:49:31 <TrueBrain> now the question .. does SA_BOTTOM work ... pam pam pammm
16:50:09 <TrueBrain> it does, but that is not what I wanted .. center it is!
16:51:18 <TrueBrain> nice peter1138 , works a lot better :D
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16:57:26 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: we still need IRC ;)
16:58:39 <Rubidium> LordAro: I'm not sure how to make the references vs pointers clearer; the other alternative would potentially be using something like shared_ptr in a lot of places, but most of that memory is reset by memset so changing that would explode the size of this PR
16:59:15 <Rubidium> LordAro: I can change all the references to pointers for consistency, but I'm not sure whether that's the way to go
16:59:20 <LordAro> Rubidium: mm, is tricky
17:06:02 <peter1138> Hmm, right, horizontal spacing. Hurr.
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17:12:55 <_2TallTyler> Hi all, I am attempting to add longer subsidies, but the variable `remaining` is in months and is only a byte. I'd like to change it to an int, but get an assertion `IsVariableSizeRight(sld)`. How can I fix this?
17:13:20 <peter1138> Update the savegame conversion code.
17:14:55 <_2TallTyler> I know how to do that for settings, but where do I look for this? It's a variable in `struct Subsidy : SubsidyPool::PoolItem<&_subsidy_pool>`
17:15:55 <TrueBrain> what are "longer subsidies"?
17:16:10 <_2TallTyler> Longer duration, not distance
17:16:26 <TrueBrain> so you changed, what, remaining to an uint16?
17:17:14 <TrueBrain> that reads from a savegame the variable as an uint8 and stores it as such
17:17:31 <TrueBrain> so if you change "remaining" to another type, you have to fix the saveload code to understand that and properly convert :)
17:17:48 <_2TallTyler> Aha, there it is!
17:18:24 <TrueBrain> these days, this is validated ... the old days it was fun to have bugs with this :P
17:19:06 <peter1138> You'll need a CONDVAR line for the current file size (and new var size), and a CONDVAR line for the new size. Along with a savegame bump.
17:19:14 <peter1138> And those are a bit easier these days.
17:19:18 <TrueBrain> examples enough in that same struct :)
17:20:18 <TrueBrain> someone just tried to access a .asp file on our wiki :P
17:20:39 <TrueBrain> totally unrelated as to why it triggered an exception, but funny nevertheless
17:20:50 <_2TallTyler> I actually overflowed the byte while testing, where my selected duration was 255 years but the result was only 21. Fun times :)
17:21:02 <LordAro> TrueBrain: general internet background noise
17:21:16 <TrueBrain> well, they did access it from /Folder/
17:21:29 <TrueBrain> and it is a Windows 7 Chrome doing it
17:21:33 <TrueBrain> both are a bit odd :P
17:21:50 <TrueBrain> either way .. /Folder/ makes 1 too many assumptions :D Something to fix!
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17:28:05 <andythenorth> I read the suggestions forum
17:29:03 <_2TallTyler> I think I've done something wrong with saveload. I can't load savegames, including the titlegame
17:29:47 <TrueBrain> too bad the trojan on your computer is no longer working
17:29:51 <TrueBrain> can't see what you are doing now :P :P :P
17:30:03 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: everything is broken, you suck, if I could make N I would do a better job?
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17:30:34 <_2TallTyler> It should be `SLE_CONDVAR(Subsidy, remaining, SLE_UINT16, SLV_CUSTOM_SUBSIDY_DURATION, SL_MAX_VERSION),` , right?
17:30:43 <andythenorth> the forum is literally called 'suggestions' so the error is mine
17:30:58 <TrueBrain> _2TallTyler: you need at least 2 lines .. 1 to load the old, one to store/load the new
17:32:21 <_2TallTyler> Why do the other CONDVARs not have this? Can they not load anything before SLV_125?
17:32:42 <TrueBrain> SLE_CONDVAR(Subsidy, src, SLE_FILE_U8 | SLE_VAR_U16, SL_MIN_VERSION, SLV_5),
17:32:50 <TrueBrain> SLE_CONDVAR(Subsidy, src, SLE_UINT16, SLV_5, SL_MAX_VERSION),
17:33:42 <TrueBrain> there really isn't a better example :D
17:33:45 <peter1138> Limitation throws out disturbs me very much
17:37:37 <_2TallTyler> I really wanted some calculation for subsidy duration, but couldn't think of one. It'll still default to 1 year.
17:39:05 <glx> yeah using SLE_CONDVAR should be straight forward
17:40:10 <TrueBrain> he got mislead by vars that were introduced in a later version, but didn't exist earlier ;)
17:40:32 <TrueBrain> CONDVAR is like reading a book .. sometimes new character get introduced, and sometimes an existing turns out to be a bad person after all
17:40:53 <glx> yeah and sometimes it's killed by the author
17:41:12 <TrueBrain> I hope this bit of trivia helps :P
17:42:00 <_2TallTyler> Just have to run some tests to make sure all is ready
17:42:27 <glx> usually having title game loading is a good starting point :)
17:42:42 <glx> luckily we use a very old version in master
17:43:07 <andythenorth> what can we do that is fun?
17:43:20 <TrueBrain> paint me yellow and call me a banana?
17:43:46 * andythenorth does the recycling
17:48:38 <Wolf01> peter1138 do you want borderlands 2 vr? My friend declined it
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17:54:49 <LordAro> hmm, Actions don't appear to be starting
17:55:13 <TrueBrain> okay, all please look around who we can blame for that
18:00:42 <peter1138> "Please verify your email address to run GitHub Actions workflows."
18:01:37 <Rubidium> peter1138: you got that too? I had it yesterday, validated and today I've got it again
18:02:02 <peter1138> No, it's just yours. Hmm.
18:03:42 <LordAro> have we hit a GH limit?
18:04:41 <_2TallTyler> The debug output says `dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer`, but everything seems to work fine in-game. What does this mean?
18:04:58 <peter1138> That usually means you've downloaded a music set that has long titles.
18:05:05 <LordAro> or your branchname is too long
18:05:37 <_2TallTyler> Nothing with SetDParam, then? Phew.
18:06:09 <Rubidium> well, just reverified the email address
18:06:48 <LordAro> could be fallout from them "fixing" Actions being abused for bitcoin mining
18:07:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #9079: NewGRFs can cause desyncs by using vehicle caches unsafely https://git.io/JOPfe
18:11:04 <peter1138> Wolf01, thanks for the offer, but I doubt I would get around to playing it.
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18:36:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #9077: [Win32] Limit OpenGL video driver to OpenGL 3.2 or newer. https://git.io/JOXni
18:37:46 <andythenorth> so I'm adding 'date_of_last_station_visit' to vehicle newgrf vars, but does that need a saveload conversion? Var doesn't currently exist
18:39:30 <LordAro> doesn't need conversion, but probably needs a bump
18:40:50 <andythenorth> and forgive my ignorance, but when loading a savegame....the vehicles won't have a valid value for the var initially
18:40:55 <andythenorth> how is that handled?
18:41:43 <LordAro> oh, yes, that will need "conversion"
18:41:49 <LordAro> though more of a setting a default
18:42:15 <LordAro> if (sl_version < SLV_ANDYS_NEW_PONY) date_of_last_station_visit = 0;
18:43:42 <peter1138> 70 tiles is over a quarter of the map!
18:45:53 <_2TallTyler> I'm not one of those crazy people who plays 4096 x 4096 games...but even on 512 x 512, with Very Low town and industry density and FIRS, subsidies often fail to generate
18:49:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: since you cannot add or change newgrf in a running game, there will be noone who reads the var in an existing savegame. just set it to 0
18:50:47 <peter1138> How does that compare to jsbeeb?
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18:51:59 <peter1138> Judging by the sound, not as good.
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18:55:42 <andythenorth> never played a 3D sim city
19:04:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #9077: [Win32] Limit OpenGL video driver to OpenGL 3.2 or newer. https://git.io/JO60A
19:10:37 <andythenorth> ha why do I delude myself I will write code after a full day of work :D
19:10:51 <andythenorth> this is when we should play 2 hour NoCarGoal games in MP :P
19:15:05 <frosch123> why do you delude yourself to write code after a week of work? is the weekend when you should play 48 hour NoCarGoal games?
19:15:47 <peter1138> Why did I delude myself that I'd be riding my bike on my week off...
19:39:33 * andythenorth did the 48 hour film challenge once
19:41:20 <andythenorth> ha maybe we could do a challenge
19:41:24 <andythenorth> 48 hours of OpenTTD
19:41:29 <andythenorth> devs vs yogscast
19:41:43 <peter1138> devs vs tt-forums suggestions
19:42:19 <andythenorth> devs vs. grf authors
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19:57:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth: You should propose devs vs yogscast, I'd watch that
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20:04:23 <andythenorth> there are goals? :o
20:05:55 <frosch123> yogscast do not play games, they mostly do talkshows
20:06:19 <andythenorth> we talk on stream
20:06:36 <andythenorth> we had discord audio on MP game at the weekend
20:06:39 <frosch123> so, i have no idea what flh expects from a "vs" game: yogscast making up myths, and devs debunking them?
20:06:43 <andythenorth> somebody kept telling us about RUKTS
20:06:49 <frosch123> "devs teach yc how to play?"?
20:07:28 <frosch123> are there more uk-bases trainsets than uk-based ottd players?
20:07:31 <andythenorth> yc teach devs how to play?
20:07:36 <andythenorth> I found another UK trainset recently
20:08:25 <andythenorth> not valid though, no Chaney Jubilee clone
20:08:31 <andythenorth> think it was all just units
20:08:53 <frosch123> and he does not play seriously
20:09:29 <frosch123> though i appreciate someone building ships :)
20:12:08 * andythenorth awaits Timberwolf Ships
20:12:41 <Timberwolf> I should put a "that's good enough, revisit later" on Stations.
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20:17:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #9019: Automatically decide which translations are finished https://git.io/JOIs3
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20:23:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #9011: Feature: make NewGRF active list react on key presses https://git.io/JOXgS
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20:31:06 <TrueBrain> lol .. so I warn him that he should be .. euh .. less ... like this, and he replies by being more .. euh .. insulting. That is nice. Can I ban him now? :)
20:31:51 <TrueBrain> how can you fail to understand that if someone tells you you should be less insulting, to not reply with more insults .. this is just .. mindbreaking :P
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20:34:26 <TrueBrain> somehow he confuses content for tone .. not sure if he will ever understand the difference at this point
20:36:33 <LordAro> i think it's fine, tbh
20:36:52 <LordAro> there's some interesting stuff in there (that you've probably already considered, sure)
20:36:53 <TrueBrain> we cannot keep saying "it is fine" because his content might be okay
20:36:57 <Xaroth> his comments generally add absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand
20:37:40 <peter1138> I like the company colour backgrounds, but iirc that isn't actually possible as company colours aren't in the same... space...
20:37:54 <peter1138> (obviously it's possible, just not without a rework)
20:39:15 <TrueBrain> basically, I am done him bullying us
20:39:20 <TrueBrain> I gave him a chance yesterday
20:39:34 <TrueBrain> content-wise, I will give it a look btw
20:41:38 <TrueBrain> peter1138: my initial sketches used company colours as background .. it was generally disliked :P
20:42:03 <peter1138> Yeah, it doesn't fit in really.
20:42:11 <TrueBrain> it is very different from any other UI
20:42:13 <peter1138> IIRC TTO use company-colour windows all over the place.
20:42:16 <TrueBrain> which in general is a bit of a problem :D
20:42:18 <andythenorth> I would just ban as unhelpful at this point
20:42:23 <Xaroth> Problem I have with company color as background is that not all colors work well with black text.
20:42:38 <TrueBrain> the amount of UI elements are very limited :P
20:43:13 <peter1138> Remember when people wanted transparent windows, as that was all the rage with windows interfaces at the time?
20:43:21 <peter1138> Aero and all that shite.
20:43:24 <TrueBrain> I still want icons for Chat and Join
20:43:29 <peter1138> Funny how that's long good...
20:43:33 <TrueBrain> I agree with his screenshot, that translated text can be horrible on those buttons
20:44:00 <andythenorth> I disagree with the "hey I'm just being nice here, it's you who have the problem"
20:44:08 <andythenorth> it's like the actual definition of passive aggression
20:44:14 <Xaroth> +1 for icons for buttons
20:44:40 <TrueBrain> but I also still like the idea of putting the companies on the left and the clients in them on the right
20:48:14 <peter1138> Oh yes, fund new industry list.
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20:48:59 <TrueBrain> so, how does one add icons to the game? :D
20:49:42 <TrueBrain> wouldn't that be lovely
20:50:13 <peter1138> With the right font, unicode would work, heh.
20:50:39 <TrueBrain> keywords .. with the right font :P
20:51:18 <Xaroth> isn't there a rename icon for trains? that could work (for now) for the chat one
20:51:22 <Xaroth> then you just need a join icon
20:51:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: take the window-icons PR as example
20:51:59 <TrueBrain> frosch123: good point
20:52:16 <TrueBrain> now .. where can I "borrow" a .. what .. 12x12 chat icon from :D
20:52:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9011: Feature: make NewGRF active list react on key presses https://git.io/JOXaH
20:53:11 <frosch123> just draw a while ellipse, add some white corner to the border, and some black dots inside
20:53:37 <frosch123> if people complain, they can provide better icons
20:53:51 <TrueBrain> the complaining part I do not worry about :D
20:54:13 <frosch123> did gog overload your graphics quota for this week? :p
20:54:59 <TrueBrain> ugh .. I forgot about GOG already
20:55:24 <frosch123> so do the icons tonight, and forget about them by tomorrow :p
20:56:01 <TrueBrain> left companies, right the players in the company
20:56:45 <TrueBrain> that really is the worst sketch I have made so far :P
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20:58:57 <glx> and a cogwheel for admin ?
20:59:07 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, good idea
21:01:22 <peter1138> Shit, don't look. I don't know what the license is on that :p
21:04:36 <TrueBrain> what for a good join icon?
21:05:34 <glx> a arrow pointing an open door ?
21:06:46 <andythenorth> Font Awesome 4.7 is a freeish license I think
21:07:06 <glx> CC-BY 4.0 for icons (on github)
21:07:56 <LordAro> if we can't have icons by andythenorth, what's even the point?
21:08:24 <TrueBrain> we have choices! :P
21:08:41 <TrueBrain> I like how frosch123 is pointing the wrong way :P
21:08:41 <andythenorth> I hate drawing icons LordAro :)
21:09:13 <TrueBrain> guess we can set the dimension of this image ourselves, right?
21:09:14 <glx> hardest part, adding them in NFO
21:09:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how is there a wrong way. if there was, it would imply you need RTL and LTR versions
21:10:23 <TrueBrain> I regret my remark and I take it back :P
21:12:04 <TrueBrain> okay, lets just do something first, and get it in the game .. what exactly we fiddle after :P
21:12:08 <TrueBrain> cog .. right ... hmm
21:13:35 <peter1138> The standard is 8x8 pixels, not a lot.
21:14:18 <peter1138> Does feel weird having to design for a tiny UI.
21:16:26 <glx> yeah blue is transparent, but visible in the png
21:17:37 <frosch123> someone should port ttdviewer to javascript :p
21:17:46 <frosch123> is there a java->js transpiler?
21:17:52 <frosch123> or is java too dead for that?
21:18:01 <TrueBrain> totally not viable like this :D
21:18:37 <Rubidium> it got no 4x zoom ;(
21:18:53 <TrueBrain> right, time to get it ingame I guess
21:19:17 <Rubidium> or rather... I made them with 32x zoom
21:20:08 <TrueBrain> tssk, frosch123 made a 11x10 blue rectangle for the pin icon
21:20:19 <glx> wow I can edit png in visual studio
21:22:10 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the transparency is important for proper alignment in the button
21:22:28 <frosch123> otherwise any gui refactoring will randomly center or otherwise misalign it
21:22:47 <frosch123> making the sprite as large as the button is just more robust
21:23:01 <peter1138> Ah yes, I still need to work on that for the original sprites :/
21:23:14 <peter1138> Those 20x20 tool bar sprites that are not :/
21:24:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I meant that in the NFO you say it is a 10x10, but in the blue square it is 11x10 :P
21:25:20 <frosch123> oh, that's a bug then :p
21:25:31 <TrueBrain> I assumed as much :D
21:25:43 <peter1138> If the NFO says it's 10x10, it is :D
21:26:09 <frosch123> it's meant to be oddly sized, so it can be centered, though ottd gui is unreliable :p
21:26:44 <TrueBrain> its compiling ... omg
21:26:45 <peter1138> Which icon is this, anyway?
21:26:47 <TrueBrain> no clue what I will get
21:26:51 <TrueBrain> as the x-offset was different in gimp vs NFO
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21:27:05 <glx> peter1138: the location button icon
21:27:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: just make sure your image editor has no "automatic optimise palette" setting or similar
21:27:21 <peter1138> Ah. The actual image is 5x8.
21:27:49 <TrueBrain> I just did "overwrite"
21:27:55 <TrueBrain> hmm ... sprites are not working ..hmmm
21:28:04 <TrueBrain> guess I need grfcodec or something?
21:28:17 <peter1138> That might be helpful.
21:28:42 <TrueBrain> apt install grfcodec
21:28:45 <glx> renum and grfcodec, you may need to tell cmake where they are
21:28:50 <TrueBrain> still blue questionmarks
21:28:58 <peter1138> As if it is apt-able
21:29:07 <TrueBrain> sprites/openttdgui.png: Error: Unrecognized palette, aborting.
21:29:17 <peter1138> Whatever happened to Dalestan?
21:30:11 <frosch123> dalestan was last seen on factorio forums, explaining plan*tmaker how to play factorio :p
21:31:12 <TrueBrain> so ... why is GIMP not doing what it should be doing .. hmm ..
21:31:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what do you use to edit the png?
21:32:00 <TrueBrain> how do I save this file correctly?
21:32:21 <frosch123> do you have the colormap tab in the toolbar?
21:32:32 <frosch123> first check whether the palette is still good
21:32:40 <TrueBrain> in remap, it looks good
21:33:40 <frosch123> i just export as .png
21:34:25 <frosch123> "automatic pixelformat" was the default
21:35:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 0xBEEF7AC0 opened issue #9083: inflation and interest rate applied to maximum loan incorrectly https://git.io/JOXrh
21:35:53 <TrueBrain> okay, I think I have it working .. just the copy/pasting I did messed something up
21:36:19 <frosch123> but that only applies to new images, not when you edit existing ones
21:37:47 <TrueBrain> can I use pure white?
21:37:49 <TrueBrain> it complains about it :D
21:38:25 <TrueBrain> found another white in another image
21:38:41 <frosch123> use color 15 as white
21:38:42 <peter1138> And all the magenta. We're historically scared of magenta.
21:38:53 <frosch123> it's grey95 technially, but there is no whiter white in ottd
21:39:22 <frosch123> pure white behaves different, it's not remapped by the newpaper/crash recoloring etc.
21:39:39 <frosch123> it remains white, but no sprite uses that :p
21:39:46 <glx> ok cmake finds grfcodec (after I set some variables in VS settings)
21:39:58 <glx> let's try png edition inside VS
21:41:04 <TrueBrain> okay, icons are totally misaligned
21:41:06 <TrueBrain> but that is fixable :P
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21:41:25 <TrueBrain> at least they are there :P
21:42:28 <glx> hmm weird rebuilt grf are marked as modified
21:42:30 <LordAro> that bug is a duplicate of an LC one, i think
21:42:56 <LordAro> i played around with fixing it to be percentage instead, but changing an existing setting proved difficult
21:48:26 <TrueBrain> need to align them a bit better :P
21:50:06 <TrueBrain> that does look drastically better than text :D
21:50:13 <frosch123> should spectators use the oilrig/buoy grey?
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21:50:38 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I can make them transparent if you like, but I kinda liked this style :)
21:50:59 <LordAro> i agree, but i think transparent would be better
21:51:12 <LordAro> s/better/more consistent/
21:51:29 <frosch123> i prefer the white bubble
21:52:27 <frosch123> monochrome colors are only used in the window title
21:52:36 <frosch123> all other icons are pretty colored, aren't they?
21:53:07 <LordAro> yeah, that's fair enough
21:53:44 <LordAro> alignment still needs work :p
21:54:30 <frosch123> that transparent bubble is actually hard to recognise. it does not trigger "comic speech" for me
21:55:14 <TrueBrain> what is the best way in C++ to get the biggest value for 4 variables?
21:56:00 <frosch123> no, 1x std::max, but with { } instead of ( )
21:56:40 <TrueBrain> no instance of overloaded function "std::max" matches the required type
21:57:24 <TrueBrain> it is not an iterator
21:57:43 <TrueBrain> duckduckgo, where are you
21:58:19 <LordAro> ah ok, std::max can take an initializer_list
21:58:34 <LordAro> to be slightly less weird
21:58:47 <TrueBrain> happy it all takes us a bit of time to find the right syntax :D
21:59:12 <glx> I just looked at cppreference
21:59:25 <glx> there's std::max({1, 10, 50, 200}) in the example
21:59:53 <TrueBrain> always one person that is smart :P
22:00:13 <frosch123> hmm, oh right, it's no constructor
22:00:35 <frosch123> looks like i never used std::max like that
22:00:37 <LordAro> i feel like i've needlessly used max_element (and dereferencing) somewhere recently
22:00:49 <LordAro> frosch123: i think it is technically possible, just really weird
22:01:28 <frosch123> LordAro: max_element operates on a range with runtime-size
22:01:30 <LordAro> or maybe it's just the initialisation syntax and you've confused me as well
22:01:36 <frosch123> the initializer list has compile-time size
22:02:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: about that "buoy" colour, no clue how to do that :D
22:02:50 <frosch123> isn't it just one of the greys?
22:03:01 <TrueBrain> that thing in front of the company is a sprite
22:03:06 <TrueBrain> so I would need a palette thingy
22:03:25 <frosch123> huh, isn't it the same sprite for all of them, but recolored?
22:03:26 <TrueBrain> but I do not know if GREY is the right one? Can't a company select that?
22:03:51 <TrueBrain> DrawSprite(SPR_COMPANY_ICON, PALETTE_TO_GREY, x, y);
22:03:55 <TrueBrain> but .. no clue if that is correct
22:10:16 <frosch123> ok, different suggestion: before figureing out the right grey, first check whether it looks good, or just differently confusing :p
22:11:12 <TrueBrain> and height is not behaving how I want to ... grrrr
22:11:59 <TrueBrain> either it doesn't work with normal GUI scale, or with any of the other :P
22:12:06 <frosch123> "(st->owner == OWNER_NONE || !st->IsInUse()) ? COLOUR_GREY : _company_colours[st->owner]" <- it's just normal grey
22:12:14 <frosch123> companies can pick the same color, if they want
22:12:29 <TrueBrain> so up to you if you think this looks better
22:13:14 <frosch123> i like some icon in front of specators
22:13:49 <peter1138> Are those buttons real or hand-drawn?
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22:14:36 <peter1138> Just needs some extra height adding then, which is done for all the normal buttons.
22:16:30 <TrueBrain> seem to work; now to vertical align them in the space available
22:16:37 <peter1138> Or just base it on the resize->height minus some padding.
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22:19:35 <TrueBrain> and the annoying cog doesn't want to be centered :P
22:19:41 <TrueBrain> he is being a child :D
22:20:11 <peter1138> Wait til I smash everything up with scaling :D
22:20:47 <TrueBrain> I don't like the contrast of the cog .. hmm
22:21:01 <peter1138> It doesn't immediately say "settings" eh?
22:21:25 <TrueBrain> I am waiting for Rubidium to come with a nice image :P
22:25:16 <TrueBrain> way too bright, but at least better
22:26:13 <_dp_> also cog is settings usually not admin
22:26:13 <TrueBrain> you have some weird bugs in your house
22:26:28 <TrueBrain> critique is easy, suggestions are hard _dp_ ;)
22:31:18 <peter1138> Turns out when you use bollocks numbers your layouts are bollocks too.
22:31:27 <TrueBrain> Error while reading png header, got 0, wanted 8, at 0: Inappropriate ioctl for device
22:32:07 <TrueBrain> tried to give the cog a big of shade
22:32:12 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I am not a pixel artist (yet) :P
22:32:21 <_dp_> hamburger icon would also work I guess
22:32:58 <peter1138> Too complex to draw a hamburger.
22:33:09 <TrueBrain> personally I am fine with a cog; just the contrast is wrong
22:34:00 <peter1138> See? Doesn't look like a hamburger at all. Artist must've got hungry and gave up.
22:34:16 <_dp_> well, whatever, that's just what it's called
22:36:06 <TrueBrain> I need a semi-transparent pixel :P
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22:43:50 <TrueBrain> needs aligning, but at least I think this is clear :P
22:44:40 <TrueBrain> hmm .. seems it is aligned
22:51:38 <TrueBrain> lol: "Yellow or slightly different color may be used to mark players with a permanent, registered nickname (github, forum or other account) - there is a significant and growing problem of impersonating other players (rather a separate PR, but it is worth taking this into account)."
22:52:52 <TrueBrain> why do some font colours come with a shade?
22:52:56 <TrueBrain> it looks really terrible in many cases
22:53:14 <peter1138> I think anything except black has a shadow.
22:53:21 <TrueBrain> looks really bad on grey
22:53:22 <peter1138> For normal size text.
22:54:10 <peter1138> One of those mid-90s UI quirks :)
22:55:36 <TrueBrain> I wanted to colour-code names, but without a legend, that is a terrible UX choice
22:55:53 <TrueBrain> I guess I can now draw a crown or something, to indicate the host
22:56:33 <TrueBrain> but hopefully some day we also have admins
22:58:37 <TrueBrain> this is why colour coding is easier
22:58:45 <TrueBrain> but .. yeah .. without context, pointless :D
22:59:19 <TrueBrain> what do you guys think .. should an empty company just be that, a single line of the company
22:59:26 <TrueBrain> or a line below it stating it is an empty company?
22:59:41 <TrueBrain> it kinda works without (no players) up till the last entry
22:59:49 <glx> single line should be enough
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23:12:19 <FLHerne> peter1138: Ugh that issue :-(
23:17:09 <TrueBrain> (this->buttons is this std::vector of unique_ptr thingy)
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23:21:23 <TrueBrain> ugh, you can fiddle for days on such windows :P
23:24:50 <glx> about the gist I see no issue, it's still a pointer, just the owner is now this->buttons
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23:25:19 <TrueBrain> just wanted to be sure :D
23:25:55 <glx> and unique_ptr will delete the object when it's removed from the vector
23:27:02 <TrueBrain> C++ is full of magic
23:27:07 <_dp_> TrueBrain, make all buttons have same width
23:27:42 <TrueBrain> "woof woof" is the correct English, I guess :D
23:28:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, mainly, the admin button should be bigger
23:28:16 <TrueBrain> I do not think it is needed that the chat button is as big as the join button, is it?
23:28:56 <glx> or reduce join button size ;)
23:29:34 <_dp_> they looks same already but if not I think it just looks better if all buttons are the same size
23:29:55 <TrueBrain> dunno .. seems like it is just wasting pixels
23:30:05 <TrueBrain> soon, company will also have an admin button
23:30:10 <TrueBrain> so there will be some misalignment anyway
23:30:11 <glx> but I think visually it would be better if columns are at least with same size buttons
23:30:39 <_dp_> that's like, what 1 pixel "wasted"? :p
23:30:51 <TrueBrain> you should talk with LC :P
23:31:13 <glx> you waste space on top of the window ;)
23:31:45 <glx> anyway it's really better with icons
23:31:51 <TrueBrain> yeah, I really like it
23:32:14 <TrueBrain> wanted to do that from day 1, but had no idea it was this simple :P
23:32:20 <TrueBrain> this PR really blew up in terms of effort :D
23:32:32 <glx> the harder part is drawing
23:32:34 <_dp_> still looks meh to me :p
23:32:47 <TrueBrain> fully open for suggestions :)
23:33:12 <TrueBrain> if I would to add admin buttons for companies
23:34:44 <TrueBrain> this is why I think making all buttons the same size isn't looking great
23:35:48 <_dp_> well, I'm not a designer so it's hard to say what exactly is wrong
23:35:55 <TrueBrain> it is something else :D
23:36:06 <TrueBrain> in general, you want buttons to be in the same location
23:36:13 <TrueBrain> so this bouncing of the admin button is wrong
23:36:22 <_dp_> idk, still think it will be better even if there is different amount of buttons
23:36:58 <_dp_> it's not just about columns but uniform look
23:37:08 <TrueBrain> I originally put the admin button all the way on the right
23:37:14 <TrueBrain> but that means the button location is different between host and client
23:37:20 <TrueBrain> so if you are always the host, you are confused
23:37:22 <_dp_> also imo would be better to add some paddings
23:37:23 <TrueBrain> if you ever play a client
23:37:30 <glx> TrueBrain: do you now there's DrawImageButtons() in widget.cpp ?
23:37:52 <TrueBrain> glx: what about it?
23:38:05 <glx> oh it's not usable directly
23:38:08 <_dp_> if there is one thing I learned about design is that few extra pixels can improve the looks tremendously
23:38:27 <TrueBrain> _dp_: it currently has the same padding as all our windows
23:38:49 <TrueBrain> and that is one of the main issues here ... going completely off-book, despite I already did that, also has its problems
23:38:50 <_dp_> well, yeah, it uniformly sucks xD
23:39:02 <TrueBrain> so I have to be careful what part I address :)
23:41:18 <_dp_> you can make admin button the last
23:41:34 <TrueBrain> I explained a bit above why that could potentially be annoying
23:42:09 <TrueBrain> don't get me wrong, I do not have the answer for this either
23:42:19 <TrueBrain> but I tried more than a few things already .. and it all sucks :P
23:42:26 <_dp_> ah, idk, it just adds another column so shouldn't be that confusing imo
23:43:34 <TrueBrain> I would need to add it on every line and disable those you cannot use, instead of hiding it
23:43:41 <TrueBrain> otherwise it looks terrible for sure :D
23:44:23 <_dp_> by can not use you mean spectators?
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23:44:48 <TrueBrain> _dp_: yeah, and on yourself
23:44:58 <TrueBrain> for some reason I am not allowing you to kick yourself
23:45:28 <glx> and it's only shown for server owner
23:45:38 <_dp_> not for me, as I did server admin commands too :p
23:46:14 <TrueBrain> bah, this is going to force me to write an admin menu for companies too, isn't it?
23:47:25 <_dp_> yep, best one so far I think
23:47:36 <glx> oh I remember this game :)
23:48:25 <TrueBrain> and I think in this case making the buttons the same size has a counter-productive effect, not?
23:48:34 <TrueBrain> having the admin button squared looks pretty slick
23:48:42 <glx> peter1138: new industry window looks better with big colored squares
23:49:06 <_dp_> I'd still go for the same size
23:49:12 <TrueBrain> so _dp_ , now we are fiddling pixels ... what other ways are there to indicate "you" and "host"?
23:49:26 <TrueBrain> _dp_: the admin icon looks terrible on a rectangle :D
23:49:54 <glx> oh there's a sloped river behind the window I think ;)
23:50:10 <TrueBrain> and it is abase .. ugh
23:50:18 <TrueBrain> empty config loads abase
23:50:32 <_dp_> TrueBrain, yeah, I guess it may without paddings...
23:50:52 <glx> it loads the first in the baseset list I guess
23:51:19 <peter1138> Nice tile edges on that baseset...
23:51:25 <peter1138> Goes it throw out 4x?
23:51:55 <TrueBrain> but okay .. this admin button on the right really forces me to make a company admin menu .. something for tomorrow :P
23:51:57 <TrueBrain> shouldn't be too hard
23:55:09 <_dp_> TrueBrain, don't have any good ideas for (you)
23:55:15 <_dp_> except mb put it after player name
23:55:31 <_dp_> or remove completely, it's already quite clear by the lack of buttons
23:55:34 <TrueBrain> I wanted to colour the names, but that requires a legend
23:56:39 <TrueBrain> still think an icon is best
23:56:44 <TrueBrain> in the white space before the name
23:56:48 <TrueBrain> crown for server host
23:57:02 <TrueBrain> swords for admins (can we see how has rcon access?)
23:57:08 <TrueBrain> and .... something for "this is you"
23:57:26 <TrueBrain> or maybe indeed, lack of buttons already is a hint
23:57:35 <TrueBrain> so make the name white, and people will learn quick enough what that means
23:57:54 <_dp_> some indent is needed to separate players from companies
23:58:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, and in that white space an icon fits nicely I think
23:58:17 <TrueBrain> (well, grey space :P)
23:59:13 <TrueBrain> white space ... lol, whitespace ..
23:59:29 <TrueBrain> tnx _dp_ for this bikeshedding :)
23:59:34 <TrueBrain> (and glx too ofc :D)
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