IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-03-11
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00:19:49 <supermop_Home> do i need to change my grf?
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03:08:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering https://git.io/JqnJb
03:09:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac commented on pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering https://git.io/JqnJA
03:10:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac updated pull request #8706: Feature: rail station class name filtering https://git.io/Jt9ev
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04:57:10 <dwfreed> TrueBrain: LordAro: to go further on the "PRs are just issues with a branch" they share the same number space, you can go to issue #<PR number> and it'll show the PR, and the GitHub API at least used to allow you to associate a branch with an existing issue and it would suddenly become a PR
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07:58:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/Jqns8
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09:06:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/grfcodec] matthijskooijman commented on issue #12: Fails to build with gcc 11 (ambiguous reference) https://git.io/JqsPX
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09:54:59 <TrueBrain> well, for #8776 I am happy to see people pointed out exactly why it is suggested that should be moddeable :D
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10:24:10 <TrueBrain> LordAro: is there a difference between "MyStruct a = { 1, 2, 3}" and "MyStruct a{1, 2, 3}" ? Or is that the same? If so, what does OpenTTD prefer?
10:24:29 <TrueBrain> (googling on this is surprisingly difficult :P)
10:26:33 <TrueBrain> even () becomes possible, lol
10:27:02 <TrueBrain> so what do we use in OpenTTD?
10:27:33 <TrueBrain> grepping for that is surprisingly difficult :P
10:32:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] auge8472 commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/Jqn8O
10:41:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/Jqn8b
10:43:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: or is this so new, it is still in YOLO, pick which ever you want, state? :D
10:43:53 <LordAro> TrueBrain: a bit of that, yes
10:44:14 <LordAro> niels & michi have used {} in quite a few places
10:46:01 <TrueBrain> I was also of course wondering about space placement for such statements :D
10:46:18 <TrueBrain> like "MyStruct a { 1, 2, 3 }" or "MyStruct a{1, 2, 3}" etc :P
10:46:34 <TrueBrain> so I was like: I will grep for this
10:46:39 <TrueBrain> I regret that choice :D
10:49:02 <LordAro> it has been consistently inconsistent
10:49:07 <LordAro> i think { spaces } has the edge?
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10:49:26 <TrueBrain> shrug .. I will make that so
10:49:55 <TrueBrain> with spaces is a bit easier to read
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10:59:01 <TrueBrain> funny, if your screen is too small with zbase, the toolbar icon to quit the game is not visible :D
11:01:09 <LordAro> should probably clamp the left side to 0
11:04:17 <TrueBrain> wtf, _savegame_format is just 8 chars long
11:04:35 <TrueBrain> means compression level is between -9 and 99
11:05:54 <TrueBrain> took me a while to figure out why this wasn't working :P
11:22:27 <TrueBrain> does C++ already has for {} else {}? :D
11:28:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/JqnR0
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12:47:47 <TrueBrain> hihi, I almost wrote void func(void);
12:47:54 <TrueBrain> but that inner void is no longer needed for C++ :P
13:10:56 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I cannot use an enum with DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET in StartNewThread?
13:14:23 <TrueBrain> so much code should simply be put in classes :P
13:14:28 <TrueBrain> saveload for example, this _sl
13:14:35 <TrueBrain> it is just a class .. without calling it a class :P
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13:34:29 <TrueBrain> 1 problem at the time :P
13:37:34 <TrueBrain> that moment your code crashes because you use a bad debug statement :D
13:45:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] saveinthesky commented on issue #8844: Crash while 'search internet in multiplayer' https://git.io/JqnRt
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14:06:47 <TrueBrain> right, there .. that might just work for 1.11
14:07:17 <TrueBrain> was interesting to see how different the two approaches for network handshake were :D
14:08:52 <TrueBrain> curious what others think of the approach I took here
14:12:53 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you've not solved the zstd1.3 issue, presumably?
14:13:09 <TrueBrain> but it is now fine if clients do not have zstd
14:13:15 <TrueBrain> so I am not sure it is still needed
14:13:19 <TrueBrain> given 1.3 really is slower
14:13:57 <TrueBrain> I am kinda tempted to say: 1.4 or lzma
14:14:57 <LordAro> need to think about it a bit more
14:15:24 <TrueBrain> please do; it is a bit of a weird problem for OpenTTD to have :D
14:16:03 <TrueBrain> we are normally not this state-of-the-art :P
14:16:38 <LordAro> unrelatedly, do you think it would be unreasonable for me to ask #8794 to split the TrackDesc stuff into a separate commit?
14:20:16 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think that is a fair request
14:20:38 <TrueBrain> he has been doing more PRs as of late, so a bit of feedback what makes review easier and what works best for future-us would benefit us too in the long run
14:21:21 <TrueBrain> and as my PR shows, we tend to do refactoring in a separate commit from extending; so yeah :)
14:21:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8794: Feature: Show rail/road/tram NewGRF name in Land Area Information window https://git.io/JqnrK
14:22:51 <TrueBrain> btw, zstd documentation SUCKS BALLS
14:23:36 <TrueBrain> it exists, but is not documented what the parameters are
14:24:06 <TrueBrain> second paragraph: "The library supports regular compression levels from 1 up to ZSTD_maxCLevel()" <- this is misleading. Negative values are also fine. Not mentioned anywhere.
14:24:19 <TrueBrain> (what the range is)
14:24:28 <TrueBrain> turns out, you can do -130000 , if you like
14:24:38 <LordAro> what's the result of that? :p
14:24:47 <TrueBrain> negative values do something completely different from positive values
14:24:57 <TrueBrain> it influence some buffer, from what I gather
14:25:18 <TrueBrain> I worked with zstd a few years ago, but it hasn't really improved
14:25:24 <TrueBrain> it is one of those "it works" attitude libraries
14:25:56 <TrueBrain> I limited it in my PR to -100
14:26:16 <TrueBrain> I could allow the full range, but it is "dynamic" depending on the library compiled
14:26:35 <TrueBrain> so yeah .. I had my horror of today :P
14:27:17 <TrueBrain> it was really funny to see the difference in implementation of the network handshake; even the location of the exchange of the handshake was different :)
14:27:24 <TrueBrain> really useful, to see both approaches :)
14:27:29 <TrueBrain> I could cherry-pick the best of both worlds :P
14:28:07 <TrueBrain> so yeah, I would like that to land in 1.11 if possible .. otherwise we are done, I think
14:28:23 <TrueBrain> 2 PRs waiting on author
14:30:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JqnoI
14:30:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8633: Graph window - Improving the aesthetics of the window https://git.io/JtBpf
14:30:34 <TrueBrain> and fuck it, lets do this PR ^^
14:33:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnoC
14:36:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/Jqnoz
15:10:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/Jqnik
15:11:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
15:11:55 <TrueBrain> with this latest change LordAro , I think adding zstd1.3 is not worth the effort
15:12:43 <TrueBrain> zstd can now never be selected for persistent storage (read: normal savegames)
15:14:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
15:14:54 <TrueBrain> oops, screwed up rebasing .. lalalaaa
15:17:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
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15:49:08 <Wolf01> Mmmh, 2021 still need to reboot after updating VS2019
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16:02:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/JqnM8
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18:08:55 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:00:39 <_dp_> TrueBrain, why are you using some weird types? uint8_t is neither openttd uint8 nor std::uint8_t
19:00:44 <_dp_> where are those even coming from
19:01:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JtsF7
19:01:56 <LordAro> _dp_: uintN_t generally doesn't require std::
19:02:03 <LordAro> it's from a C header, after all
19:02:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JqnN2
19:02:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JqnNV
19:05:35 <Timberwolf> "No common parent between 'sprite-zoom-setting' and 'master'" - what dumb thing have I done there?
19:08:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JtsF7
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19:17:51 <Timberwolf> Ah, OK, there's a merge conflict with upstream and I've ended up with a mess in the local repository.
19:30:57 <andythenorth> rm -r pretend it never happened
19:31:07 <andythenorth> abandon the idea and all hope
19:32:56 <frosch123> yep, trying for 30 minutes to get a local eints
19:33:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/JtsF7
19:34:48 <Timberwolf> There we go, that's better.
19:44:24 <frosch123> yay, stackoverflow to the rescue!
19:44:55 <frosch123> eints is ridiculous hard to start :p
19:51:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8846: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't take into account the compatibility parameter https://git.io/Jqnpp
19:57:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8847: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't allow the selected add-on to be updated https://git.io/JqnhC
20:19:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened issue #8848: Can't buy train engine when the "Engines only" filter is active https://git.io/JqnjD
20:19:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: in general, don't you just love how each of those tickets are a complete puzzle :D
20:19:55 <TrueBrain> you spend more time understanding wtf it is about than anything else
20:20:51 <LordAro> TrueBrain: just wait until we get all the steam users ;)
20:21:12 <TrueBrain> I hope most just stay on the Steam Discussion pages :P
20:22:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/Jqnjh
20:24:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/Jqcek
20:27:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 opened pull request #35: Fix #29: In the string edit page, display the base string with translated commands. https://git.io/Jqcen
20:27:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/Jqcec
20:28:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 updated pull request #35: Fix #29: In the string edit page, display the base string with translated commands. https://git.io/Jqcen
20:28:35 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is a new way of doing an "in" I haven't seen in Python yet :D Using sets :P
20:28:53 <frosch123> isn't that common for C++ programmers?
20:29:14 <frosch123> "constexpr set" is faster than a tuple or list :p
20:29:16 <TrueBrain> except that it wasted memory, I cannot think of a real reason why it would be bad :P
20:29:30 <TrueBrain> for Python, constructing a set is slower, I believe :P
20:29:36 <frosch123> i somehow expected there would be more than one file :p
20:29:43 <TrueBrain> something with mutable vs immutable :D
20:29:52 <frosch123> so you want a tuple?
20:30:00 <TrueBrain> I don't want anything, honestly
20:30:03 <TrueBrain> I just never saw this before :)
20:30:22 <TrueBrain> I guess that is mostly because it doesn't work in Python2, I think
20:31:07 <frosch123> "i just never saw this before" is what i thought when encountering python code that used "this" instead of "self"
20:32:23 <TrueBrain> that happens if C++ programmers try to be Python programmers :D :D
20:32:32 <LordAro> still, have you tried python written by an ada programmer?
20:32:38 <frosch123> it may have been a coding style discussion :p
20:32:44 <LordAro> semicolons & globals, everywhere
20:32:56 <frosch123> i had that at my old job, when people wanted to transfer the c++ coding style to xml configuration files
20:33:13 <frosch123> capitalisation and stuff
20:33:32 <frosch123> elements are classes, attributes are variables, attribute values are enum values, ...
20:33:52 <supermop_Home> man I am too old or something
20:34:03 <frosch123> upper camelcase, snake case, all caps, ... or so
20:34:13 <supermop_Home> run for three days and I've already messed up my foot somehow
20:40:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #35: Fix #29: In the string edit page, display the base string with translated commands. https://git.io/Jqce5
20:40:05 <TrueBrain> really cannot find a reason why {} would be wrong
20:40:07 <Xaroth> you forgot screaming snake case.
20:40:08 <TrueBrain> or () would be prefered
20:40:22 <TrueBrain> they are both initialized every time the function runs
20:40:31 <TrueBrain> one is immutable, but that has zero effect on the statement
20:41:04 <TrueBrain> one could even claim {} is faster, as it uses a hash to lookup the value
20:41:08 <frosch123> Xaroth: i guess that's what i mean with "all caps". but good point, i never considered writing all caps without wort separators
20:41:10 <TrueBrain> instead of iterating every item
20:42:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am not sorry, if you keep on thinking about that for the next 5 days :p
20:43:42 <supermop_Home> frosch123 based on the fix in 8843, is catenary now 5 sprites, or still just 2?
20:44:05 <Xaroth> in <tuple> is the fastest variant, btw
20:44:18 <frosch123> supermop_Home: two, the back sprite shall contain W, N, E pillars. the front sprite shall contain S pillar and wires
20:44:19 <Xaroth> python -m timeit -s "a = list(range(50000))" "b = [x in {4} for x in a]" << replacing {4} with [4] or (4,)
20:44:38 <Xaroth> set: 3.77 msec per loop, list: 1.79 msec per loop, tuple: 1.78 msec per loop
20:44:56 <andythenorth> TrueBrain unusual use of the word 'love' there :P
20:45:42 <supermop_Home> the 'splits the back sprite into 3 sprites with 3 separate bounding boxes" - is that done automatically, or do I need to do something to se the sizes of those?
20:45:58 <frosch123> ottd does that automatically
20:46:24 * andythenorth wonders about suspended monorail grf
20:46:29 <andythenorth> I think it uses catenary as track
20:46:34 <supermop_Home> so I can pretty much keep using my front and back sprites as is - no need to change my code
20:47:47 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: if you use a sane size list/set/tuple, the difference is gone ;)
20:47:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened pull request #8849: Fix #8733: Can't buy train engine when the "Engines only" filter is a… https://git.io/JqcvZ
20:48:22 <Xaroth> 4.27 usec, 2.25usec and 2.26usec, respectively.
20:49:16 <TrueBrain> owh, wait, even your example, zero difference on Python 3.8.5
20:50:10 <Xaroth> hm, let me check which version this is
20:50:29 <TrueBrain> seems they did some optimizations :D
20:51:17 <TrueBrain> I love it if people report a bug and fix it too <3
20:52:19 <Xaroth> yeah, with 3.8 the difference is negligible
20:52:23 <Xaroth> wonder where they fixed it
20:52:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8604: Feature: allow limiting zoom level of NewGRF-provided sprites https://git.io/Jqcvu
20:53:55 <TrueBrain> sharp eye there frosch123 :D
20:54:34 <frosch123> your need good eye-tongue coordination to catch bugs
20:58:56 <TrueBrain> I would think that would show up when testing the setting
20:59:01 <TrueBrain> which I personally clearly did not :P
20:59:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 merged pull request #35: Fix #29: In the string edit page, display the base string with translated commands. https://git.io/Jqcen
20:59:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] frosch123 closed issue #29: Unable to use STRING1 or anyother non standard modifiers in translations https://git.io/JTlq9
20:59:41 <frosch123> i assume i do not need to rebase the eints-openttd branch, since you will change everything anyway?
21:00:02 <TrueBrain> I hope to do that, yes .. as it is such an annoying thing to rebase etc
21:00:07 <TrueBrain> but I haven't gotten myself to do it
21:00:12 <TrueBrain> so it depends on when you want this to go live :P
21:01:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #8849: Fix #8733: Can't buy train engine when the "Engines only" filter is a… https://git.io/JqcvS
21:03:31 <TrueBrain> today I got lost in zstd :P But maybe Saturday I get myself to do eints .. I really should do it, so meh
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21:07:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8776: Change: Don't decrease vehicle reliability when stopped https://git.io/Jqcfe
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21:13:23 <TrueBrain> so funny that every reply on that PR proofs the point frosch123's made .. they are never going to agree on a single solution :D
21:15:02 <TrueBrain> too bad "moddable" is read as NewGRF
21:15:10 <TrueBrain> guess GS is a much better fit for the topic of that PR
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21:17:48 <andythenorth> replace the algorithm contents?
21:18:00 <andythenorth> rather than trying to run something on every vehicle?
21:18:20 * andythenorth expresses that badly sorry
21:21:34 <andythenorth> maybe another way to put it
21:21:54 <andythenorth> one of the limiting factors of newgrf (there are several) is that it's very local
21:22:27 <andythenorth> this is a positive in that it allows for detail in vehicles / tiles etc
21:23:17 <andythenorth> but is a negative for anything which need to go further up the tree of parent / region / map
21:23:45 * andythenorth prepares TedX talk
21:27:53 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: same issue as towns, I guess :P
21:28:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: make a PR, I would say :)
21:28:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8847: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't allow the selected add-on to be updated https://git.io/JqnhC
21:28:55 <andythenorth> "the modalities of determining proper domain in moddable game entity design" will be my TedX talk
21:28:59 <andythenorth> I don't know what it means
21:29:09 <andythenorth> but it will look nice on the slides
21:29:45 <TrueBrain> LordAro: in the BaNaNaS repo, you can change "new-games" on these entries to "savegame-only", and they will not be offered to new players anymore
21:29:58 <TrueBrain> sorry, "savegames-only"
21:30:10 <LordAro> feel like i should revert their "z-ignore" title changes too
21:30:25 <LordAro> though that may be more difficult
21:30:30 <TrueBrain> alternatively, change bananas-api and bananas-frontend-web to allow managers to do this :D
21:30:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: not really, same files, so ..
21:32:11 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i was better at writing, i would write a blog about modding in ottd, what is subject to newgrf, to gs, or to settings :)
21:32:14 <TrueBrain> and this is why having all the metadata in a git repository is awesome :D
21:32:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8846: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't take into account the compatibility parameter https://git.io/Jqnpp
21:32:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if I knew what NewGRF could and could not do, I might write that :P
21:32:45 <LordAro> i think i've deciphered those issues
21:33:01 <TrueBrain> close one, a oneline for the other, nice
21:33:22 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the point in this context is mostly: newgrf do stuff per-vehicle, so newgrf are the ideal solution to make reliability decay depend on speed, acceleration, load amount, track type and stuff
21:33:44 <frosch123> newgrf are unsuitable to make vehicle prefer to breakdown when starting
21:34:27 <TrueBrain> in my head, NewGRFs are meant for short callbacks with little context. GS is meant for long callbacks with a lot of context.
21:34:29 <TrueBrain> Not sure that is true :D
21:35:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8848: Can't buy train engine when the "Engines only" filter is active https://git.io/JqnjD
21:35:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8849: Fix #8733: Can't buy train engine when the "Engines only" filter is a… https://git.io/JqcvZ
21:37:38 <TrueBrain> I want to be able to set a budget how much maintenance is done on my vehicles; and if you set that too low, they break down a lot more often. Is that possible? :D
21:37:59 <TrueBrain> so you can be this airliner that barely does enough to keep up the planes
21:38:04 <TrueBrain> so they crash once in a while :P
21:39:16 <supermop_Home> TrueBrain like the sliders in SimCity 4?
21:39:26 <TrueBrain> haven't really played SC4
21:40:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: to my understanding people hate breakdowns not for "how often they happen" but rather "where they happen"
21:41:15 <supermop_Home> for me I hate that they happen at all
21:41:34 <frosch123> breakdowns were a lot more popular, if you could build track layouts that minimize the effect of breakdowns
21:41:49 <TrueBrain> that is not realistic :P :P
21:41:52 <frosch123> by desiging places where vehicles are safe to break down
21:41:58 <TrueBrain> breakdowns never happen in places you want ! :D
21:42:43 <frosch123> well, that's why realism is bad for game design :)
21:43:03 <frosch123> but imagine breakdowns were more likely to happen when vehicles stop all the time at signals
21:43:17 <frosch123> or when people set the to full load for 3 years
21:43:28 <TrueBrain> or too heavy trains :D
21:43:30 <frosch123> or when they crawl at 3km/h uphill
21:43:32 <TrueBrain> or going downhill :P
21:43:40 <TrueBrain> so many cool things you can do :D
21:43:59 <TrueBrain> I never really understood "reliability"
21:44:04 <frosch123> but then there are these stupid corner cases: one train going at 95 km/h and the following one going at 96 km/h and constantly stopping at signals
21:44:11 <TrueBrain> a train with 90% sounds to me that every tick it has a 10% chance of breaking down :P
21:44:18 <frosch123> that's just a rabbit hole of more yellow signal requests :p
21:44:47 <TrueBrain> I guess this is more a wear-and-tear thing, where for a long time everything is fine
21:44:47 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, that's the other complaint about reliability. the effect of servicing is too small
21:45:07 <TrueBrain> UI wise, I would like that a lot more
21:45:14 <frosch123> servicing resets the reliability to max_reliability, which is always < 100
21:45:16 <TrueBrain> the % never meant anything to me, really
21:45:29 <TrueBrain> I compare it with my own car
21:45:36 <TrueBrain> a new care has a VERY small chance to break down in the first year
21:45:40 <frosch123> it would be cooler if servicing resets reliabiility to 150% or something, so the decay and service interval has a bigger effect
21:45:43 <TrueBrain> when I don't service it, 2 years .. 3 .. will be fine too
21:46:02 <TrueBrain> and I understand you can put this in percentages
21:46:10 <TrueBrain> but 90% sounds like a weird low number for a new vehicle
21:46:12 <frosch123> so, can we make a live stream out of this?
21:46:19 <TrueBrain> seriously, we can :)
21:46:24 <supermop_Home> if your car was 10 years old, and it only had a 90% chance of making it to the shops each time you drove it there, you would find that infuriating
21:46:25 <frosch123> put ideas "breakdowns should do X" on small notes
21:46:38 <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: well, exactly
21:46:44 <frosch123> then group them into similar things, and group them into newgrf.-suitable, gs-suitable, patch-suitable, ...
21:46:46 <TrueBrain> but that is because we cannot deal with statistics, as humans, not really anyway
21:47:07 <supermop_Home> a very unreliable car is one that maybe breaks down 4-6 times per year, not 4-6 times per journey
21:47:18 <TrueBrain> another way to present the value would be: Mean-Time-To-Breakdown: 12 days
21:47:35 <TrueBrain> it can still use the reliability percentage
21:47:40 <TrueBrain> but just presenting it another way makes it more .. intuative
21:47:56 <TrueBrain> as I guess 90% reliability has a MTTB of like 2 gameyears?
21:48:11 <supermop_Home> even the worst lemon I ever had, the battery was dead almost once per day, but I could still push start it
21:48:44 <TrueBrain> the other thing that always bothered me ... when my vehicle breaks down
21:48:48 <andythenorth> frosch123 just write a bad blog anyway, someone has to
21:48:53 <TrueBrain> reliability doesnt change
21:48:57 <supermop_Home> (saab 93..... at least it was a manual transmission and I would park it at the tops of hills)
21:48:57 <TrueBrain> but .. they fixed the vehicle, right?
21:49:01 <TrueBrain> so there are new parts in it now, right?
21:49:05 <TrueBrain> so .. it should be better now, not?
21:49:10 <andythenorth> I could write one, but I don't write in terms that work for programmers, so eh
21:49:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
21:50:26 <andythenorth> in Railroad Tycoon 3 you could choose to overspeed your train, in exchange for decreased reliability
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21:50:42 <andythenorth> it sounds like a great mechanic, but it was actually quite 1 dimensional
21:50:54 <LordAro> TrueBrain: is there any issues with me putting "availability" in global.yaml?
21:51:00 <LordAro> rather than a version
21:51:12 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yes, those only work per version
21:51:17 <TrueBrain> as a version has an availability
21:51:51 <LordAro> so presumably i need to change the availability for all versions?
21:51:52 <TrueBrain> shows you what works in global
21:51:59 <TrueBrain> only 1 per package is "new-games"
21:52:10 <TrueBrain> so no, that would be unlikely
21:52:26 <TrueBrain> I wrote documentation about this, ON YOUR REQUEST, and you don't even read it :'(
21:52:33 <TrueBrain> I don't mind, ask away :)
21:53:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
21:54:28 <TrueBrain> I am now very tempted to make a PR so you can change the display to show MTTB instead of reliability :D
21:56:03 <andythenorth> I want to know about MTTR then
21:56:09 <LordAro> interestingly, several of those newgrfs already are marked as savegames only
21:56:12 <andythenorth> 'repair time' could be a dimension
21:56:23 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: next step :P
21:56:31 <andythenorth> also there have been 'degree of failure' patchs in dev forum somewhere
21:56:38 <andythenorth> so not all breakdowns are 100%
21:56:59 <TrueBrain> LordAro: does that mean you already had a version of that package on your local machine?
21:56:59 <andythenorth> like when my van demands regen and will only drive at 19mph
21:57:06 <TrueBrain> or are there just more?
21:57:46 <TrueBrain> owh, some are from import
21:57:48 <LordAro> TrueBrain: no, i mean in the bananas repo, there are 15 grfs that were marked as 'z-ignore', but only 7 of those were actually available
21:57:52 <TrueBrain> during import, we also fixed a few things like that
21:58:03 <TrueBrain> mostly people who set weird max-versions
21:58:06 <TrueBrain> to mean: no longer available
21:58:20 <TrueBrain> those already have no "new-games" version indeed
21:58:34 <LordAro> should i highlight simyoulater in the PR?
21:58:41 <LordAro> or perhaps best not bother?
21:59:03 <TrueBrain> knowing him, either way will create a reaction
21:59:06 <TrueBrain> so better highlight him
21:59:29 <TrueBrain> means andythenorth and Timberwolf can have a chat with him again about how society works, if needed :D
21:59:38 <andythenorth> he's quitting the community soon anyway
21:59:44 <TrueBrain> like the 5 times before?
21:59:52 <andythenorth> announced in forum
21:59:53 <LordAro> hmm, straight-reverting the commits has reverted some of the "Obsolete" parts of the description, which may still be desirable
22:00:01 <TrueBrain> people that announce they are leaving, never are :P
22:00:18 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah, you might want to give this a bit of a human touch :)
22:00:26 <andythenorth> I rage quit thrice I think
22:01:17 <supermop_Home> over savegame compression?
22:02:16 <supermop_Home> yes, fuck trees verily
22:02:28 <supermop_Home> sorry if your kids are on irc
22:03:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] LordAro opened pull request #85: Hide some obsolete GRFs from the content download list https://git.io/JqcTn
22:06:37 <frosch123> LordAro: there are multiple ways to set a newgrf as unavailable
22:07:49 <frosch123> if the whole set is retired you can set "archived"
22:08:03 <TrueBrain> owh, we have "archived" too . forgot about that :P
22:08:40 <LordAro> as well as, or instead of?
22:11:06 <frosch123> "available" is important for in-game. "archived" will hide it from the overview list
22:11:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8845: Feature: zstandard compression for network games https://git.io/JqnwH
22:12:48 <frosch123> is there a fine difference between "un-user-friendly" and "user-unfriendly"?
22:13:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] LordAro updated pull request #85: Hide some obsolete GRFs from the content download list https://git.io/JqcTn
22:13:42 <andythenorth> frosch123 one is valid and one is not? :)
22:13:43 <LordAro> frosch123: i changed my mind on which one i liked more after making the commit :p
22:14:02 <TrueBrain> you expect more from an english person, but here we are
22:14:45 <andythenorth> english you are, words you will
22:15:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] LordAro updated pull request #85: Hide some obsolete GRFs from the content download list https://git.io/JqcTn
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22:21:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8847: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't allow the selected add-on to be updated https://git.io/JqnhC
22:33:14 <_dp_> you know, turning breakdowns from random bullshit to moddable random bullshit aint gonna solve anything :p
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23:58:25 <Gustavo6046> If OpenTTD had been rewritten by GZDoom dev Graf Zahl, you'd turn to need to have a NASA PC in order to run it. :D
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